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Corporal Kielbasa

Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,235
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10 people die
#5934109 - 08/05/06 10:25 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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click mushroom for web page.
" Mexico mushrooms kill 10 from same family 7-year-old boy, father newest victims in Indian family that ate same soup
TUXTLA GUTIERREZ, Mexico - A 7-year-old boy and his father died Friday, bringing to 10 the number of people killed after eating poisonous mushrooms in Mexicos southernmost Chiapas state.
All 10, from the same Indian family in the community of Tenejapa, had eaten a soup made with wild mushrooms gathered deep in the mountains of Chiapas. Eight other relatives died earlier in the week. An 11th family member, a 69-year-old man, did not eat the soup and was not affected, authorities said.
Wild mushrooms flourish during the rainy season in the forests and jungles of Chiapas, and are a common dietary staple for many Indian families. But recent genetic mutations have made some mushrooms, consumed for years in Indian communities, newly poisonous, officials say.
Authorities have been inspecting open-air food markets, collecting all mushrooms sold there to prevent further deaths.
Medical officials said the type of venom contained in the mushrooms that the family ingested had immediate and severe effects on the liver, making it difficult for doctors to help them. "
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eris
underground


Registered: 11/17/98
Posts: 48,024
Loc: North East, USA
Last seen: 4 months, 18 days
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That's a shame.. always sad to hear about people dying from mushroom poisoning... what a painful way to go out.
-------------------- Immortal / Temporarily Retired The OG Thread Killer My mushroom hunting gallery
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Corporal Kielbasa

Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,235
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Re: 10 people die [Re: eris]
#5934119 - 08/05/06 10:29 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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I agree. The thing the article stated was that these were mushrooms have been picked for centuries. But only recently have they developed a poison.
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hobbitxkillyou
Shark wrestlingchampion

Registered: 08/11/05
Posts: 943
Loc: Pennsylvania
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
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Looks like evolution right before our eyes. The mushrooms were being eaten by a predator, so they developed a defense. Very sad about the people, but super interesting with the mushroom. imo
-------------------- When the going gets wierd, the wierd turn pro. -H. S. Thompson
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Timberdoodler
illustrator


Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 122
Loc: Pennsylvania
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
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I sure as hell hope that never happens to the morel!
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Corporal Kielbasa

Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,235
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Its sad but its a fact of life. I dont think anyone will ever stop eating mushrooms!
If that happened to the morel, then that would be the day i lay down and die.
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eris
underground


Registered: 11/17/98
Posts: 48,024
Loc: North East, USA
Last seen: 4 months, 18 days
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yeah, I'd never stop.
-------------------- Immortal / Temporarily Retired The OG Thread Killer My mushroom hunting gallery
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Corporal Kielbasa

Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,235
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Re: 10 people die [Re: eris]
#5934208 - 08/05/06 11:05 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yeah i mean I'd eat them. Then lay down and die......
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eris
underground


Registered: 11/17/98
Posts: 48,024
Loc: North East, USA
Last seen: 4 months, 18 days
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I know.
-------------------- Immortal / Temporarily Retired The OG Thread Killer My mushroom hunting gallery
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Jim


Registered: 04/07/04
Posts: 20,922
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the article didn't say which mushroom had did them in... was this because everyone who was involved with it died, or becuase there was more than one wild mushroom in the mix?
Either way, it sucks...
When in doubt throw it out....
-------------------- Use the Fucking Reply To Feature You Lazy Pieces of Shit! afoaf said: Jim, if you were in my city, I would let you fuck my wife.
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eris
underground


Registered: 11/17/98
Posts: 48,024
Loc: North East, USA
Last seen: 4 months, 18 days
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Re: 10 people die [Re: Jim]
#5934544 - 08/05/06 12:59 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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That does suck, I wonder if the mushroom that killed them was even identified.
-------------------- Immortal / Temporarily Retired The OG Thread Killer My mushroom hunting gallery
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Meat_hod
sick shit


Registered: 09/27/05
Posts: 1,808
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Re: 10 people die [Re: eris]
#5934669 - 08/05/06 01:38 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Imagine through some sort of fungal meeting, of the fungal gods, all known mushrooms species suddenly started to produce mass amounts of psilocybin. That would be intense. imagine how many people would trip in that first week, haha.
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure


Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
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Re: 10 people die [Re: Meat_hod]
#5934685 - 08/05/06 01:43 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'm sure it had to be a case of mistaken identification. The physiology of the mushroom isn't going to change that rapidly.
In the Pacific Northwest of the USA at least every few years we have a similar thing happen, usually with Chinese immigrants who pick the deadly galerina mushrooms, because they look similar to an edible mushroom they used to pick in China. It's taken out whole families too. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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GGreatOne234
Stranger
Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 8,946
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I agree with RR. It was not a case of genetic mutation..more like a case of misidentified mushrooms.
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eris
underground


Registered: 11/17/98
Posts: 48,024
Loc: North East, USA
Last seen: 4 months, 18 days
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The article never mentions if a professional was brought in to ID the consumed mushrooms or not.
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Amatoxin
Injected With A Poison


Registered: 03/27/05
Posts: 1,934
Loc: Not So Great Britain
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Quote:
GGreatOne234 said: I agree with RR. It was not a case of genetic mutation..more like a case of misidentified mushrooms.
What about that incident with Pleurotellus porrigens in Japan a few years ago? The locals had been consuming them for many many years then, all of a sudden, numerous fatalities from the same mushroom.
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Sectioned Under The Mental Health Act Sat 20-10-07 to Thurs 01-11-07 for playing TECHNO music
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure


Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
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Re: 10 people die [Re: Amatoxin]
#5935080 - 08/05/06 05:00 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Probably another case of mistaken Identification. If not, perhaps they allowed them to sit in a plastic bag, leading to some sort of microbial infection. Angel wings are one of mrs rabbits and my favorite mushrooms. We eagerly await their return every fall. We fill pillow cases full of them within minutes to bring home and dry, as does nearly every backpacker we meet on the trails. They look very similar to an oyster mushroom, but more tender and tastier, in our culinary opinion. RR
P porrigens
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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Gumby
Fishnologist


Registered: 06/13/01
Posts: 26,656
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Sad story. Does it bother anyone else that they refered to the toxin as "Venom."
Snake have venom. Spiders have venom. Scorpions have venom. Mushrooms have poisons.
A lesson in terminology: venom= injected poison= injested
venom= toxin poison= toxin
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Amatoxin
Injected With A Poison


Registered: 03/27/05
Posts: 1,934
Loc: Not So Great Britain
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: Probably another case of mistaken Identification.
I can't think of any fungi remotely resembling Pleurotellus porrigens that is toxic
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Sectioned Under The Mental Health Act Sat 20-10-07 to Thurs 01-11-07 for playing TECHNO music
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Feelers
Anti-Myth-Rhythm-Rock-Shocker


Registered: 06/18/02
Posts: 1,806
Loc: Land of Oz
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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Re: 10 people die [Re: Gumby]
#5935248 - 08/05/06 07:02 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yeah I don't buy that mutation explanation at all - it takes hundreds of years for a new gene to spread about the population.
Due to the quality of the report - using the term "venom" etc, I'd be quite sceptical. They didnt even try to name what the mushroom was.
Liver failure must be horrible.
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shroomydan
exshroomerite


Registered: 07/04/04
Posts: 4,126
Loc: In the woods
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Re: 10 people die [Re: Feelers]
#5935463 - 08/05/06 09:16 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Though my gut reaction from the news story is that it was more than likely a case of mistaken ID, the Angle Wing poisonings from Japan seem legit to me. I will never eat an Angel Wing. Arora mentions a case of a woman having a typical psilocybian experience from eating Chicken Mushrooms. It seems to me with trillions of spores produced by a single mushroom, there is enough possible variation for a known edible species to unexpectedly start producing poison.
I really wish they would have mentioned species in the news story. Guzman is in Mexico. I imagine he would be interested in this tragic event. If we don't have any more info about this in a few days I will send him an email.
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Feelers
Anti-Myth-Rhythm-Rock-Shocker


Registered: 06/18/02
Posts: 1,806
Loc: Land of Oz
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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The factors involved in a mutation expanding throughtout our lifespan is so remote I'd say that this phenotype is has probably been present in the population without human intervention if it does exist.
First of all the trait has to be dominant, and it has to get over all the huge odds standing in its way. Remember that having a piosonous fruitbody while giving an evolutionary advantage, doesnt give a rapidly advancing one. I think its pretty safe to say that an artificially-selective, spreading mutation has not caused such poisonings. I had a brief look for info on those reports, supposedly in 2004 -but no real references for it. Anyone have any good links on this?
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Amatoxin
Injected With A Poison


Registered: 03/27/05
Posts: 1,934
Loc: Not So Great Britain
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Re: 10 people die [Re: Feelers]
#5935631 - 08/05/06 10:38 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Feelers said: I had a brief look for info on those reports, supposedly in 2004 -but no real references for it. Anyone have any good links on this?
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3266725/an/0/page/0#3266725
It would seem that mice don't fare too well with Angel wings either...
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Sectioned Under The Mental Health Act Sat 20-10-07 to Thurs 01-11-07 for playing TECHNO music
Edited by Amatoxin (08/05/06 10:46 PM)
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure


Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
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Re: 10 people die [Re: Amatoxin]
#5935716 - 08/05/06 11:17 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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But, it says if they were heated to 100c there was no toxicity. Most of us cook them, so they easily get that hot. It's interesting though. The one thread they all had in common was kidney problems. I just know they're excellent with either rice or pasta, and are really good with salmon. I've been eating them all my life. Here's another picture from my collection RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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Feelers
Anti-Myth-Rhythm-Rock-Shocker


Registered: 06/18/02
Posts: 1,806
Loc: Land of Oz
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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Re: 10 people die [Re: Amatoxin]
#5935719 - 08/05/06 11:18 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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There werent many definitive conclusions in those reports - and a thing to note about the mice is that they suggest improper cooking might be the reason why they are poisonous. Another thing is many of the victims seem to be on dialysis.
Bugger trying to solve that mystery - but I dont think the answer has anything to do with recent genetic mutations. Interesting topic though - unfortunate they dont seem to have worked it out yet!
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Zen Peddler


Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
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Yeah genetic mutations dont happen overnight - not one as significant as that anyway - non-poisonous mushrooms dont develop poisonous phenotypes overnight. As for Chinese immigrants - the same happens regularly here in Australia. People werent sure if our variety of galerina was poisonous but we now know that it is.
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ToxicMan
Bite me, it's fun!


Registered: 06/28/02
Posts: 6,722
Loc: Aurora, Colorado
Last seen: 7 hours, 45 minutes
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Almost certainly this is a case of misidentification, by far the most common cause of mushroom poisonings. I am not aware of even a single known case of an edible species suddenly becoming poisonous. The closest thing is that there are (still, even now) lots of people who think that False Morels are edible and don't realize that they are consuming a potentially deadly toxin.
Amanita species are widely consumed in Mexico. These victims probably consumed one of the species near A. phalloides. 10 deaths is an unusually large number.
RogerRabbit, the cases in the PNW you're referring to involve A. phalloides, because it somewhat resembles a large specimen of Volvariella volvacea, the Paddy Straw mushroom, which is widely cultivated in southeast Asia. In years when there is a large fruiting of A. phalloides you can be certain that 1 or 2 families will make the error with tragic results.
Amatoxin, the cases a few years ago with Pleurocybella porrigens all involved patients who were very ill to begin with. All of them were on dialysis or had recently received kidney transplants, as I recall. There were no victims who were in good health beforehand. Even Marilyn Shaw, the head of our toxicology group, told me that she thought there was probably nothing to worry about in this particular case. And Marilyn has been advising me to not eat large quantities of Tricholoma flavovirens (one of my favorites) because of a few odd poisonings in France a few years ago that a physician thought were caused by that species. There have been no poisonings afterward (in either species), and in neither case were there any poisonings in North America.
If a confirmed case of an edible mushroom becoming poisonous (especially deadly) occurs, I will make prominent posts on it.
Please note that almost all edible mushrooms occasionally produce reactions in a few individuals that are basically poisoning. The only mushrooms that I know of that have no reported cases of poisoning for are Truffles (Tuber).
Happy mushrooming!
-------------------- Happy mushrooming!
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avionando
Fungoid

Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 184
Loc: The wonderful Pacific Nor...
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
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I have read from various sources that mushrooms can absorb and concentrate various chemicals or toxins from contaminated soil. Doesn't seem likely in a rural area like that but it is another possibility for mushroom poisoning.
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iateshaggy
i haxor 360s


Registered: 05/20/05
Posts: 4,707
Loc: 612 Warf Avenue, next to....
Last seen: 1 month, 9 days
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Re: 10 people die [Re: avionando]
#5936569 - 08/06/06 10:20 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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not likely in a rural area, u mean the kind where they have farms w/ pesticides?
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I can flash/jtag/repair 360's, pm for details.
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Amatoxin
Injected With A Poison


Registered: 03/27/05
Posts: 1,934
Loc: Not So Great Britain
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: But, it says if they were heated to 100c there was no toxicity.
ooops! I was slightly inebriated last night when I postd that. Must have missed that bit lol
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Sectioned Under The Mental Health Act Sat 20-10-07 to Thurs 01-11-07 for playing TECHNO music
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ToxicMan
Bite me, it's fun!


Registered: 06/28/02
Posts: 6,722
Loc: Aurora, Colorado
Last seen: 7 hours, 45 minutes
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Re: 10 people die [Re: avionando]
#5938542 - 08/06/06 09:43 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
mushrooms can absorb and concentrate various chemicals or toxins from contaminated soil.
Absolutely true. Most rural areas that's not going to be a problem.
I live in Colorado, and here it can be. There are lots of old abandoned mines around, and the tailings from those mines can be extremely toxic. The Roaring Fork river that leads down into Aspen is contaminated that way. No fish from that river should be eaten - the water has high levels of Arsenic, and it concentrates in the fish. Similarly, there are areas here where mushrooms should not be eaten.
Happy mushrooming!
-------------------- Happy mushrooming!
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Jim


Registered: 04/07/04
Posts: 20,922
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Re: 10 people die [Re: ToxicMan]
#5938553 - 08/06/06 09:46 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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We have tons of heavy metals in the water here, as well as PCB's...
-------------------- Use the Fucking Reply To Feature You Lazy Pieces of Shit! afoaf said: Jim, if you were in my city, I would let you fuck my wife.
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mjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/21/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
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a venom.. RR is correct and so is greatone234.
Tjakko Stijve has studied trace elements in mushrooms for years. Especially from the Chernoble fallout. ANd here in the PNW, not only chinese, but over the years several vietrnamese had also eaten poisonous shrooms.
AS for saving musrhooms to examine, an autopsy will reveal what the toxins were,. HOWEVER, that is last page in the newspaper news.
Read about the teen in Hawaii who told the cops and hospital he ate ten magic mushrooms, Front page news in Hawaiian papers. He died. Four months later, a followup story revaled he died with morphine in his system. Made the last pages of the news section. mj Maybe we will hear about it but I will ask Guzman in a few weeks what he has heard.
mj
IF I have time before I go to Thailand, I will post some of Stijve's articles about trace elements of radioselsium in fungi and other elements such as arsenic.
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