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shroomydan
exshroomerite


Registered: 07/04/04
Posts: 4,126
Loc: In the woods
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Re: 10 people die [Re: Feelers]
#5935463 - 08/05/06 09:16 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Though my gut reaction from the news story is that it was more than likely a case of mistaken ID, the Angle Wing poisonings from Japan seem legit to me. I will never eat an Angel Wing. Arora mentions a case of a woman having a typical psilocybian experience from eating Chicken Mushrooms. It seems to me with trillions of spores produced by a single mushroom, there is enough possible variation for a known edible species to unexpectedly start producing poison.
I really wish they would have mentioned species in the news story. Guzman is in Mexico. I imagine he would be interested in this tragic event. If we don't have any more info about this in a few days I will send him an email.
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Feelers
Anti-Myth-Rhythm-Rock-Shocker


Registered: 06/18/02
Posts: 1,806
Loc: Land of Oz
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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The factors involved in a mutation expanding throughtout our lifespan is so remote I'd say that this phenotype is has probably been present in the population without human intervention if it does exist.
First of all the trait has to be dominant, and it has to get over all the huge odds standing in its way. Remember that having a piosonous fruitbody while giving an evolutionary advantage, doesnt give a rapidly advancing one. I think its pretty safe to say that an artificially-selective, spreading mutation has not caused such poisonings. I had a brief look for info on those reports, supposedly in 2004 -but no real references for it. Anyone have any good links on this?
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Amatoxin
Injected With A Poison


Registered: 03/27/05
Posts: 1,934
Loc: Not So Great Britain
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Re: 10 people die [Re: Feelers]
#5935631 - 08/05/06 10:38 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Feelers said: I had a brief look for info on those reports, supposedly in 2004 -but no real references for it. Anyone have any good links on this?
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3266725/an/0/page/0#3266725
It would seem that mice don't fare too well with Angel wings either...
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Sectioned Under The Mental Health Act Sat 20-10-07 to Thurs 01-11-07 for playing TECHNO music
Edited by Amatoxin (08/05/06 10:46 PM)
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure


Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
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Re: 10 people die [Re: Amatoxin]
#5935716 - 08/05/06 11:17 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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But, it says if they were heated to 100c there was no toxicity. Most of us cook them, so they easily get that hot. It's interesting though. The one thread they all had in common was kidney problems. I just know they're excellent with either rice or pasta, and are really good with salmon. I've been eating them all my life. Here's another picture from my collection RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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Feelers
Anti-Myth-Rhythm-Rock-Shocker


Registered: 06/18/02
Posts: 1,806
Loc: Land of Oz
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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Re: 10 people die [Re: Amatoxin]
#5935719 - 08/05/06 11:18 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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There werent many definitive conclusions in those reports - and a thing to note about the mice is that they suggest improper cooking might be the reason why they are poisonous. Another thing is many of the victims seem to be on dialysis.
Bugger trying to solve that mystery - but I dont think the answer has anything to do with recent genetic mutations. Interesting topic though - unfortunate they dont seem to have worked it out yet!
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Zen Peddler


Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
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Yeah genetic mutations dont happen overnight - not one as significant as that anyway - non-poisonous mushrooms dont develop poisonous phenotypes overnight. As for Chinese immigrants - the same happens regularly here in Australia. People werent sure if our variety of galerina was poisonous but we now know that it is.
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ToxicMan
Bite me, it's fun!


Registered: 06/28/02
Posts: 6,722
Loc: Aurora, Colorado
Last seen: 9 hours, 17 minutes
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Almost certainly this is a case of misidentification, by far the most common cause of mushroom poisonings. I am not aware of even a single known case of an edible species suddenly becoming poisonous. The closest thing is that there are (still, even now) lots of people who think that False Morels are edible and don't realize that they are consuming a potentially deadly toxin.
Amanita species are widely consumed in Mexico. These victims probably consumed one of the species near A. phalloides. 10 deaths is an unusually large number.
RogerRabbit, the cases in the PNW you're referring to involve A. phalloides, because it somewhat resembles a large specimen of Volvariella volvacea, the Paddy Straw mushroom, which is widely cultivated in southeast Asia. In years when there is a large fruiting of A. phalloides you can be certain that 1 or 2 families will make the error with tragic results.
Amatoxin, the cases a few years ago with Pleurocybella porrigens all involved patients who were very ill to begin with. All of them were on dialysis or had recently received kidney transplants, as I recall. There were no victims who were in good health beforehand. Even Marilyn Shaw, the head of our toxicology group, told me that she thought there was probably nothing to worry about in this particular case. And Marilyn has been advising me to not eat large quantities of Tricholoma flavovirens (one of my favorites) because of a few odd poisonings in France a few years ago that a physician thought were caused by that species. There have been no poisonings afterward (in either species), and in neither case were there any poisonings in North America.
If a confirmed case of an edible mushroom becoming poisonous (especially deadly) occurs, I will make prominent posts on it.
Please note that almost all edible mushrooms occasionally produce reactions in a few individuals that are basically poisoning. The only mushrooms that I know of that have no reported cases of poisoning for are Truffles (Tuber).
Happy mushrooming!
-------------------- Happy mushrooming!
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avionando
Fungoid

Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 184
Loc: The wonderful Pacific Nor...
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
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I have read from various sources that mushrooms can absorb and concentrate various chemicals or toxins from contaminated soil. Doesn't seem likely in a rural area like that but it is another possibility for mushroom poisoning.
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iateshaggy
i haxor 360s


Registered: 05/20/05
Posts: 4,707
Loc: 612 Warf Avenue, next to....
Last seen: 1 month, 9 days
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Re: 10 people die [Re: avionando]
#5936569 - 08/06/06 10:20 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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not likely in a rural area, u mean the kind where they have farms w/ pesticides?
-------------------- You are a filipina sex goddess who wants to fuck me until I fall asleep, so then you can tickle my balls and see if the legend of my diamond filled nutsuck is true. I am a white man from costa rica, who smells like lime jello.
I can flash/jtag/repair 360's, pm for details.
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Amatoxin
Injected With A Poison


Registered: 03/27/05
Posts: 1,934
Loc: Not So Great Britain
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: But, it says if they were heated to 100c there was no toxicity.
ooops! I was slightly inebriated last night when I postd that. Must have missed that bit lol
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Sectioned Under The Mental Health Act Sat 20-10-07 to Thurs 01-11-07 for playing TECHNO music
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ToxicMan
Bite me, it's fun!


Registered: 06/28/02
Posts: 6,722
Loc: Aurora, Colorado
Last seen: 9 hours, 17 minutes
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Re: 10 people die [Re: avionando]
#5938542 - 08/06/06 09:43 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
mushrooms can absorb and concentrate various chemicals or toxins from contaminated soil.
Absolutely true. Most rural areas that's not going to be a problem.
I live in Colorado, and here it can be. There are lots of old abandoned mines around, and the tailings from those mines can be extremely toxic. The Roaring Fork river that leads down into Aspen is contaminated that way. No fish from that river should be eaten - the water has high levels of Arsenic, and it concentrates in the fish. Similarly, there are areas here where mushrooms should not be eaten.
Happy mushrooming!
-------------------- Happy mushrooming!
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Jim


Registered: 04/07/04
Posts: 20,922
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Re: 10 people die [Re: ToxicMan]
#5938553 - 08/06/06 09:46 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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We have tons of heavy metals in the water here, as well as PCB's...
-------------------- Use the Fucking Reply To Feature You Lazy Pieces of Shit! afoaf said: Jim, if you were in my city, I would let you fuck my wife.
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mjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/21/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
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a venom.. RR is correct and so is greatone234.
Tjakko Stijve has studied trace elements in mushrooms for years. Especially from the Chernoble fallout. ANd here in the PNW, not only chinese, but over the years several vietrnamese had also eaten poisonous shrooms.
AS for saving musrhooms to examine, an autopsy will reveal what the toxins were,. HOWEVER, that is last page in the newspaper news.
Read about the teen in Hawaii who told the cops and hospital he ate ten magic mushrooms, Front page news in Hawaiian papers. He died. Four months later, a followup story revaled he died with morphine in his system. Made the last pages of the news section. mj Maybe we will hear about it but I will ask Guzman in a few weeks what he has heard.
mj
IF I have time before I go to Thailand, I will post some of Stijve's articles about trace elements of radioselsium in fungi and other elements such as arsenic.
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