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Offlinefireworks_godS
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The Practical Path Reflects Reality
    #5932078 - 08/04/06 04:41 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

At work, we track our feature products, and if the rate of sale is not more productive when the product is on feature tracking, then it is not justifiable to maintain the feature of that product. Even if the feature product is such that one is attached to maintaining it, the practical sense of reality always trumps the ideal sense of reality - usually due to the fact that the practical sense of reality is more reflective of reality. We utilize features in order to increase our sales, by presenting products that customers might purchase that they didn't specifically come to buy, and also as a great lead in to the category that the item is from. Thus, if something is not productive, then we adjust accordingly.

I think this relates to our views on life. It is great to have an imaginative sense of what reality should be, gods and heaven and infinite lives, but there is nothing within reality that reflects this, and if one is to live the most productive life (in terms of one's preferences), then reflecting reality is something to be strived for. The more one knows reality for what it is, and accepts it, one is then granted a great oppurtunity to shape and experience one's life as one wishes, to navigate through reality and to change reality.

What ideas, concepts, and perspectives do you feature in your life, and are you tracking their success in providing for yourself a better, more beneficial experience of life? Are they productive, or do you need to switch them out?

At work, we often receive home office bought merchandise, often times merchandise that we have no ability to cancel the order for (but we can try! :lol:). God knows they try to dump some shit on us, with seemingly little regard for how we can accomodate the merchandise. We may feature it, and we might not wish to kill the feature, as we have nothing else to do with it. Well, if it is not productive, the customer doesn't want it at that price, so its best to just take a hit and clearance it out, to justify placing it in that clearance aisle and transcending it. :lol:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Offlineporcupine
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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5932180 - 08/04/06 05:16 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)


I think this relates to our views on life. It is great to have an imaginative sense of what reality should be, gods and heaven and infinite lives, but there is nothing within reality that reflects this, and if one is to live the most productive life (in terms of one's preferences), then reflecting reality is something to be strived for. The more one knows reality for what it is, and accepts it, one is then granted a great oppurtunity to shape and experience one's life as one wishes, to navigate through reality and to change reality.


if gods exist then having a sense of reality that includes them does reflect reality.

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OfflineLion
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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: porcupine]
    #5932379 - 08/04/06 06:44 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

porcupine said:

I think this relates to our views on life. It is great to have an imaginative sense of what reality should be, gods and heaven and infinite lives, but there is nothing within reality that reflects this, and if one is to live the most productive life (in terms of one's preferences), then reflecting reality is something to be strived for. The more one knows reality for what it is, and accepts it, one is then granted a great oppurtunity to shape and experience one's life as one wishes, to navigate through reality and to change reality.


if gods exist then having a sense of reality that includes them does reflect reality.


I think f_g's point was that primacy should be given in everyday life to the reality which we experience, not a reality which may exist outside the grasp of ordinary consciousness. If your mind is dwelling in the realm of the gods (or the Mushroom, something which I cannot deny doing more often than I should) every minute of every day, then you're missing out on lucid interaction with your own existence.

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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5932417 - 08/04/06 07:03 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I think that the practical path is often the most reflective of reality, but not most insightful or useful. I would contend that we should strive for resolving the paradox created by something both practical and inherently interesting.

One way this was presented to me was through the analogy of a lover- that he/she should be faithful and interesting. Why faithful? Because it's meant generally, not just physically, if the person isn't faithful to you in a way that matters to you, then why are you with them? You shouldn't be. Why interesting? Because otherwise it's an utter waste of time. These initial reasons are short and simple, but I'm amazed at how effective considering things with them can be.

As to the paradox thing- I think it exists sort of in terms of intent. It's easy to make something interesting. It's equally easy to make something faithful ( to.. reality, or a feeling, or anything remotely physical ). But the two are completely different, and what is your intent supposed to be when creating something that is both? I think that's where the dichotomy of physicality and abstraction/knowledge becomes important.

eh anyway, one process that I find most useful in my own life is the philosophy of no philosophy ( found through exploration of philosophies as they become important to me - through references or problems with other philosophies. Or just when I suddenly develop interest in them ). This way of thought has fostered a lot versatility in me, which in turn supports a neverending journey of exploration, curiosity and life.

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OfflineRRRR
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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5932599 - 08/04/06 08:12 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Society needs to provide mythological ritual to youth, stories displaying wisdom of life. Whether or not the stories were historical true is irrelevant. Myths provide structure and a social framework.


--------------------
Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)

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Offlineporcupine
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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: Lion]
    #5932991 - 08/04/06 10:07 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

bug said:
Quote:

porcupine said:

I think this relates to our views on life. It is great to have an imaginative sense of what reality should be, gods and heaven and infinite lives, but there is nothing within reality that reflects this, and if one is to live the most productive life (in terms of one's preferences), then reflecting reality is something to be strived for. The more one knows reality for what it is, and accepts it, one is then granted a great oppurtunity to shape and experience one's life as one wishes, to navigate through reality and to change reality.


if gods exist then having a sense of reality that includes them does reflect reality.


I think f_g's point was that primacy should be given in everyday life to the reality which we experience, not a reality which may exist outside the grasp of ordinary consciousness. If your mind is dwelling in the realm of the gods (or the Mushroom, something which I cannot deny doing more often than I should) every minute of every day, then you're missing out on lucid interaction with your own existence.




i dont think accepting the existence of a reality that exists outside the grasp of oridinary consciousness necessarily means you can't have lucid interaction with your own experience.

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: porcupine]
    #5934042 - 08/05/06 09:43 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

porcupine said:
if gods exist then having a sense of reality that includes them does reflect reality.




If? Exactly.

If unicorns exist, then holding the belief that they do is reflective of reality. However, since no one has any means by which to know whether or not unicorns are an aspect of reality, same as god, then holding the belief that they are an aspect of reality is not reflective of reality.

Acknowledging the possibility? Remaining open and receptive to the information reality provides us? Reflective of reality. Accepting a belief in something that has no substantiation is not reflective of reality, as reality has not provided anything to demonstrate the validity of that belief.

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: porcupine]
    #5934045 - 08/05/06 09:45 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

porcupine said:
i dont think accepting the existence of a reality that exists outside the grasp of oridinary consciousness necessarily means you can't have lucid interaction with your own experience.




Accepting the existance of a reality that one does not experience or interact with implies that one is not reflecting the reality that we directly perceive and interact with.

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: RRRR]
    #5934053 - 08/05/06 09:49 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

RRRR said:
Society needs to provide mythological ritual to youth, stories displaying wisdom of life. Whether or not the stories were historical true is irrelevant. Myths provide structure and a social framework.




Society doesn't need to do anything. Myths certainly provide a social framework - look at the terrible, negative results from providing mythological ritual. Have you ever heard of an area of the world known as the Middle East? :lol:

Metaphor and allegory are effective in conveying certain concepts, but utilizing them as "structure and social framework" obviously does not work. Reality provides all that we could ever need to understand reality. Perhaps if youth were instilled with an ability to increase their awareness and observe and experience reality as it occurs, we would be better off. It seems to be more effective than religiously following irrelevant stories that might contain conceptual value within a specific context, but offer no glimpse of reality itself. :smirk:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: vampirism]
    #5934154 - 08/05/06 10:43 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Morrowind said:
I think that the practical path is often the most reflective of reality, but not most insightful or useful. I would contend that we should strive for resolving the paradox created by something both practical and inherently interesting.




I do not see how a path that is most reflective of reality could not be the most useful. The more you understand the system that you are an aspect of, the more able one is to most beneficially further that system. I also think that reality is incredibly insightful, as it provides us with our present experience. The more awareness we bring into our experience, as it occurs, the more we live life. I think there is a lot of insight in our direct experience of reality that could not be replicated by a limited, abstract mind.

I'm not certain how the concept of interest and faith that you have expressed applies to this, but it is great to see you back and posting. :wink: Could you perhaps elaborate as to how it relates to the concept of approaching life in a practical manner? I'm thinking it is something along the lines of, if it doesn't benefit you in some way, and it doesn't hold your interest, then it is not practical to continue putting your energy into it.. is that what you mean? :grin:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineRRRR
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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5934267 - 08/05/06 11:24 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I disagree. I think the crisis of urban life is the crisis of disbelief. Kids are lost, they look for other places and means for fulfillment such as gangs.


--------------------
Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: RRRR]
    #5934288 - 08/05/06 11:31 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

The existance of one extremity does not justify the instillation of another baseless extremity. :lol:

That's like replacing alcoholism with Christianity. :smirk:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineRRRR
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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5934304 - 08/05/06 11:38 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
The existance of one extremity does not justify the instillation of another baseless extremity. :lol:

That's like replacing alcoholism with Christianity. :smirk:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:




You're exactly right, it is like replacing alcoholism with Christianity, though a mystical or allegorical belief in Christianity works just as well. Jung, I believe, once said that alcoholism is the manifestation of the yearning for religion.

But why does that trouble you?


--------------------
Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: RRRR]
    #5934354 - 08/05/06 11:57 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Replacing one inability to cope with reality with another? :smirk:

It doesn't concern me, to each his own, but no one requires beliefs that are not represented in reality itself in order to develop themself or to live their life, nor is it more beneficial to do so.

You've also neglected to address the evidence of what occurs when societies are implanted with religious belief, as can be directly observed in the Middle East. I do not comprehend how providing this structure and social framework has assisted society and its ability to interact with each other.

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineRRRR
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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5934741 - 08/05/06 02:03 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Replacing one inability to cope with reality with another? :smirk:






Opinion.

Immanuel Kant was a Christian, did he lack the ability to cope with reality? What about Thomas Aquinas? Carl Jung? Vladimir Solovyov?
Quote:

nor is it more beneficial to do so.




Again, opinion.


--------------------
Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: RRRR]
    #5934940 - 08/05/06 03:34 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

RRRR said:
Immanuel Kant was a Christian, did he lack the ability to cope with reality? What about Thomas Aquinas? Carl Jung? Vladimir Solovyov?




Not entirely sure, as I never knew these people, what constituted their regard for themselves as Christian, or their motivations for such.

Quote:


Again, opinion.




Not necessarily just opinion. That all depends on the nature of this "Christianity". What is the specific sense of it that you refer to, and how is it more beneficial to someone than simply bringing awareness within oneself and directly perceiving reality as it presents itself?

If the ideas that you are referring to imply adopting as belief notions that are not evident in reality, then its simply abstract considerations based upon feeling. Such would, by nature of the fact that we are aspects of reality, participating within reality, serve as a detriment to our ability to effectively navigate reality, as our representation of reality would not reflect reality. Reality reality reality reality. :lol:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRRRR
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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5934956 - 08/05/06 03:44 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

RRRR said:
Immanuel Kant was a Christian, did he lack the ability to cope with reality? What about Thomas Aquinas? Carl Jung? Vladimir Solovyov?




Not entirely sure, as I never knew these people, what constituted their regard for themselves as Christian, or their motivations for such.






I've done extensive research with Kant, in particular, and I can assure you he had no difficulty coping with reality. His categorical imperative provided an unrivaled secular moral framework. He was very accustomed to reality and extremely familiar with it.

Quote:

Not necessarily just opinion. That all depends on the nature of this "Christianity". What is the specific sense of it that you refer to, and how is it more beneficial to someone than simply bringing awareness within oneself and directly perceiving reality as it presents itself?

If the ideas that you are referring to imply adopting as belief notions that are not evident in reality, then its simply abstract considerations based upon feeling. Such would, by nature of the fact that we are aspects of reality, participating within reality, serve as a detriment to our ability to effectively navigate reality, as our representation of reality would not reflect reality. Reality reality reality reality.




I have discomfort with your use of "effectively". I think a better term would be "accurately", and accuracy does not imply efficiency. Take AA recovery programs, for instance, and their focus on Divine healing. They very often focus on finding God through moral inventory, confession of defects, restitution, reliance upon God, and helping others. I don't think a presentation of objective reality would be as effective in repairing their life as the myth of Divinity.


--------------------
Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: RRRR]
    #5934987 - 08/05/06 04:01 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

RRRR said:
I've done extensive research with Kant, in particular, and I can assure you he had no difficulty coping with reality. His categorical imperative provided an unrivaled secular moral framework. He was very accustomed to reality and extremely familiar with it.




I note your assurances, but will not reach any conclusions based upon them. What is the nature of this secular moral framework? Is there more information you could provide? Its beyond my practical means to research into it myself at the moment, but I would be delighted to review anything you submit. :smile: I'm not exactly adept when it comes to philosophical figures. :grin:

Quote:


I have discomfort with your use of "effectively". I think a better term would be "accurately", and accuracy does not imply efficiency.




The more accurate one's model of reality is, the more able one is to interact in accordance with reality, which implies that one has the means to be more effective in developing oneself and reality.

A map through treacherous waters might not be as preferential as one that depicts clear sailing, but following the illusory one will not provide one with an opportunity to make it through the dangerous sea. The more accurate representation of reality as it has been presented, the more one knows and realizes reality for what it is - knowledge is power, eh?

Quote:


I don't think a presentation of objective reality would be as effective in repairing their life as the myth of Divinity.




I think a presentation of objective reality would require more inner discipline and more awareness then simply adopting some myth as truth. Bringing awareness within oneself will always be more effective, even if it is not the most comfortable or easiest path to access. Knowing oneself does not imply creating abstract notions that enable oneself.

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineDeviate
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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5935014 - 08/05/06 04:17 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

you say knowing oneself as if this is such an easy thing to do that everyone understands and has no problems carrying out. you're over looking the fact that some people choose to use christianity (or another religion) as a means for bringing awareness within themselves. jesus taught self knowledge and following his teachings are an excelent method of progressing towards this goal for many people.

5. Jesus said, "Know what is in front of your face, and what is hidden from you will be disclosed to you."

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: Deviate]
    #5935044 - 08/05/06 04:38 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
you say knowing oneself  as if this is such an easy thing to do that everyone understands and has no problems carrying out. you're over looking the fact that some people choose to use christianity (or another religion) as a means for bringing awareness within themselves. jesus taught self knowledge and following his teachings are an excelent method of progressing towards this goal for many people.

5. Jesus said, "Know what is in front of your face, and what is hidden from you will be disclosed to you."




For the most part, I agree with you. Knowing oneself requires understanding, and certainly there are expressions of understanding that one can access and realize for themselves. Jesus' teachings themselves are quite possibly a great tool for developing one's understanding, and the quote you posted in particular is a great summation of my point.

I am simply referring to aspects of religions wherein individuals adopt beliefs that serve as obstructions of one's direct perceptions of reality. If individuals in the Middle East were not programmed with such beliefs, they would not glance at a certain wall or a specific building and declare that others have no right to be there, and they would not be fighting over abstract differences.

Understanding can be shared with others, but it cannot be implanted in others, and understanding does not require adoption of unsubstantiated beliefs in order to be realized. This is my whole point. :wink:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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