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Offlinefireworks_godS
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The Practical Path Reflects Reality
    #5932078 - 08/04/06 06:41 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)

At work, we track our feature products, and if the rate of sale is not more productive when the product is on feature tracking, then it is not justifiable to maintain the feature of that product. Even if the feature product is such that one is attached to maintaining it, the practical sense of reality always trumps the ideal sense of reality - usually due to the fact that the practical sense of reality is more reflective of reality. We utilize features in order to increase our sales, by presenting products that customers might purchase that they didn't specifically come to buy, and also as a great lead in to the category that the item is from. Thus, if something is not productive, then we adjust accordingly.

I think this relates to our views on life. It is great to have an imaginative sense of what reality should be, gods and heaven and infinite lives, but there is nothing within reality that reflects this, and if one is to live the most productive life (in terms of one's preferences), then reflecting reality is something to be strived for. The more one knows reality for what it is, and accepts it, one is then granted a great oppurtunity to shape and experience one's life as one wishes, to navigate through reality and to change reality.

What ideas, concepts, and perspectives do you feature in your life, and are you tracking their success in providing for yourself a better, more beneficial experience of life? Are they productive, or do you need to switch them out?

At work, we often receive home office bought merchandise, often times merchandise that we have no ability to cancel the order for (but we can try! :lol:). God knows they try to dump some shit on us, with seemingly little regard for how we can accomodate the merchandise. We may feature it, and we might not wish to kill the feature, as we have nothing else to do with it. Well, if it is not productive, the customer doesn't want it at that price, so its best to just take a hit and clearance it out, to justify placing it in that clearance aisle and transcending it. :lol:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlineporcupine
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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5932180 - 08/04/06 07:16 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)


I think this relates to our views on life. It is great to have an imaginative sense of what reality should be, gods and heaven and infinite lives, but there is nothing within reality that reflects this, and if one is to live the most productive life (in terms of one's preferences), then reflecting reality is something to be strived for. The more one knows reality for what it is, and accepts it, one is then granted a great oppurtunity to shape and experience one's life as one wishes, to navigate through reality and to change reality.


if gods exist then having a sense of reality that includes them does reflect reality.


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OfflineLion
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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: porcupine]
    #5932379 - 08/04/06 08:44 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

porcupine said:

I think this relates to our views on life. It is great to have an imaginative sense of what reality should be, gods and heaven and infinite lives, but there is nothing within reality that reflects this, and if one is to live the most productive life (in terms of one's preferences), then reflecting reality is something to be strived for. The more one knows reality for what it is, and accepts it, one is then granted a great oppurtunity to shape and experience one's life as one wishes, to navigate through reality and to change reality.


if gods exist then having a sense of reality that includes them does reflect reality.


I think f_g's point was that primacy should be given in everyday life to the reality which we experience, not a reality which may exist outside the grasp of ordinary consciousness. If your mind is dwelling in the realm of the gods (or the Mushroom, something which I cannot deny doing more often than I should) every minute of every day, then you're missing out on lucid interaction with your own existence.


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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5932417 - 08/04/06 09:03 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)

I think that the practical path is often the most reflective of reality, but not most insightful or useful. I would contend that we should strive for resolving the paradox created by something both practical and inherently interesting.

One way this was presented to me was through the analogy of a lover- that he/she should be faithful and interesting. Why faithful? Because it's meant generally, not just physically, if the person isn't faithful to you in a way that matters to you, then why are you with them? You shouldn't be. Why interesting? Because otherwise it's an utter waste of time. These initial reasons are short and simple, but I'm amazed at how effective considering things with them can be.

As to the paradox thing- I think it exists sort of in terms of intent. It's easy to make something interesting. It's equally easy to make something faithful ( to.. reality, or a feeling, or anything remotely physical ). But the two are completely different, and what is your intent supposed to be when creating something that is both? I think that's where the dichotomy of physicality and abstraction/knowledge becomes important.

eh anyway, one process that I find most useful in my own life is the philosophy of no philosophy ( found through exploration of philosophies as they become important to me - through references or problems with other philosophies. Or just when I suddenly develop interest in them ). This way of thought has fostered a lot versatility in me, which in turn supports a neverending journey of exploration, curiosity and life.


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OfflineRRRR
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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5932599 - 08/04/06 10:12 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)

Society needs to provide mythological ritual to youth, stories displaying wisdom of life. Whether or not the stories were historical true is irrelevant. Myths provide structure and a social framework.


--------------------
Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)


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Offlineporcupine
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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: Lion]
    #5932991 - 08/05/06 12:07 AM (16 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

bug said:
Quote:

porcupine said:

I think this relates to our views on life. It is great to have an imaginative sense of what reality should be, gods and heaven and infinite lives, but there is nothing within reality that reflects this, and if one is to live the most productive life (in terms of one's preferences), then reflecting reality is something to be strived for. The more one knows reality for what it is, and accepts it, one is then granted a great oppurtunity to shape and experience one's life as one wishes, to navigate through reality and to change reality.


if gods exist then having a sense of reality that includes them does reflect reality.


I think f_g's point was that primacy should be given in everyday life to the reality which we experience, not a reality which may exist outside the grasp of ordinary consciousness. If your mind is dwelling in the realm of the gods (or the Mushroom, something which I cannot deny doing more often than I should) every minute of every day, then you're missing out on lucid interaction with your own existence.




i dont think accepting the existence of a reality that exists outside the grasp of oridinary consciousness necessarily means you can't have lucid interaction with your own experience.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: porcupine]
    #5934042 - 08/05/06 11:43 AM (16 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

porcupine said:
if gods exist then having a sense of reality that includes them does reflect reality.




If? Exactly.

If unicorns exist, then holding the belief that they do is reflective of reality. However, since no one has any means by which to know whether or not unicorns are an aspect of reality, same as god, then holding the belief that they are an aspect of reality is not reflective of reality.

Acknowledging the possibility? Remaining open and receptive to the information reality provides us? Reflective of reality. Accepting a belief in something that has no substantiation is not reflective of reality, as reality has not provided anything to demonstrate the validity of that belief.

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: porcupine]
    #5934045 - 08/05/06 11:45 AM (16 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

porcupine said:
i dont think accepting the existence of a reality that exists outside the grasp of oridinary consciousness necessarily means you can't have lucid interaction with your own experience.




Accepting the existance of a reality that one does not experience or interact with implies that one is not reflecting the reality that we directly perceive and interact with.

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: RRRR]
    #5934053 - 08/05/06 11:49 AM (16 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

RRRR said:
Society needs to provide mythological ritual to youth, stories displaying wisdom of life. Whether or not the stories were historical true is irrelevant. Myths provide structure and a social framework.




Society doesn't need to do anything. Myths certainly provide a social framework - look at the terrible, negative results from providing mythological ritual. Have you ever heard of an area of the world known as the Middle East? :lol:

Metaphor and allegory are effective in conveying certain concepts, but utilizing them as "structure and social framework" obviously does not work. Reality provides all that we could ever need to understand reality. Perhaps if youth were instilled with an ability to increase their awareness and observe and experience reality as it occurs, we would be better off. It seems to be more effective than religiously following irrelevant stories that might contain conceptual value within a specific context, but offer no glimpse of reality itself. :smirk:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: vampirism]
    #5934154 - 08/05/06 12:43 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Morrowind said:
I think that the practical path is often the most reflective of reality, but not most insightful or useful. I would contend that we should strive for resolving the paradox created by something both practical and inherently interesting.




I do not see how a path that is most reflective of reality could not be the most useful. The more you understand the system that you are an aspect of, the more able one is to most beneficially further that system. I also think that reality is incredibly insightful, as it provides us with our present experience. The more awareness we bring into our experience, as it occurs, the more we live life. I think there is a lot of insight in our direct experience of reality that could not be replicated by a limited, abstract mind.

I'm not certain how the concept of interest and faith that you have expressed applies to this, but it is great to see you back and posting. :wink: Could you perhaps elaborate as to how it relates to the concept of approaching life in a practical manner? I'm thinking it is something along the lines of, if it doesn't benefit you in some way, and it doesn't hold your interest, then it is not practical to continue putting your energy into it.. is that what you mean? :grin:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineRRRR
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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5934267 - 08/05/06 01:24 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)

I disagree. I think the crisis of urban life is the crisis of disbelief. Kids are lost, they look for other places and means for fulfillment such as gangs.


--------------------
Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: RRRR]
    #5934288 - 08/05/06 01:31 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)

The existance of one extremity does not justify the instillation of another baseless extremity. :lol:

That's like replacing alcoholism with Christianity. :smirk:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineRRRR
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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5934304 - 08/05/06 01:38 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
The existance of one extremity does not justify the instillation of another baseless extremity. :lol:

That's like replacing alcoholism with Christianity. :smirk:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:




You're exactly right, it is like replacing alcoholism with Christianity, though a mystical or allegorical belief in Christianity works just as well. Jung, I believe, once said that alcoholism is the manifestation of the yearning for religion.

But why does that trouble you?


--------------------
Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: RRRR]
    #5934354 - 08/05/06 01:57 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)

Replacing one inability to cope with reality with another? :smirk:

It doesn't concern me, to each his own, but no one requires beliefs that are not represented in reality itself in order to develop themself or to live their life, nor is it more beneficial to do so.

You've also neglected to address the evidence of what occurs when societies are implanted with religious belief, as can be directly observed in the Middle East. I do not comprehend how providing this structure and social framework has assisted society and its ability to interact with each other.

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineRRRR
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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5934741 - 08/05/06 04:03 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Replacing one inability to cope with reality with another? :smirk:






Opinion.

Immanuel Kant was a Christian, did he lack the ability to cope with reality? What about Thomas Aquinas? Carl Jung? Vladimir Solovyov?
Quote:

nor is it more beneficial to do so.




Again, opinion.


--------------------
Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: RRRR]
    #5934940 - 08/05/06 05:34 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

RRRR said:
Immanuel Kant was a Christian, did he lack the ability to cope with reality? What about Thomas Aquinas? Carl Jung? Vladimir Solovyov?




Not entirely sure, as I never knew these people, what constituted their regard for themselves as Christian, or their motivations for such.

Quote:


Again, opinion.




Not necessarily just opinion. That all depends on the nature of this "Christianity". What is the specific sense of it that you refer to, and how is it more beneficial to someone than simply bringing awareness within oneself and directly perceiving reality as it presents itself?

If the ideas that you are referring to imply adopting as belief notions that are not evident in reality, then its simply abstract considerations based upon feeling. Such would, by nature of the fact that we are aspects of reality, participating within reality, serve as a detriment to our ability to effectively navigate reality, as our representation of reality would not reflect reality. Reality reality reality reality. :lol:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineRRRR
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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5934956 - 08/05/06 05:44 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

RRRR said:
Immanuel Kant was a Christian, did he lack the ability to cope with reality? What about Thomas Aquinas? Carl Jung? Vladimir Solovyov?




Not entirely sure, as I never knew these people, what constituted their regard for themselves as Christian, or their motivations for such.






I've done extensive research with Kant, in particular, and I can assure you he had no difficulty coping with reality. His categorical imperative provided an unrivaled secular moral framework. He was very accustomed to reality and extremely familiar with it.

Quote:

Not necessarily just opinion. That all depends on the nature of this "Christianity". What is the specific sense of it that you refer to, and how is it more beneficial to someone than simply bringing awareness within oneself and directly perceiving reality as it presents itself?

If the ideas that you are referring to imply adopting as belief notions that are not evident in reality, then its simply abstract considerations based upon feeling. Such would, by nature of the fact that we are aspects of reality, participating within reality, serve as a detriment to our ability to effectively navigate reality, as our representation of reality would not reflect reality. Reality reality reality reality.




I have discomfort with your use of "effectively". I think a better term would be "accurately", and accuracy does not imply efficiency. Take AA recovery programs, for instance, and their focus on Divine healing. They very often focus on finding God through moral inventory, confession of defects, restitution, reliance upon God, and helping others. I don't think a presentation of objective reality would be as effective in repairing their life as the myth of Divinity.


--------------------
Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: RRRR]
    #5934987 - 08/05/06 06:01 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

RRRR said:
I've done extensive research with Kant, in particular, and I can assure you he had no difficulty coping with reality. His categorical imperative provided an unrivaled secular moral framework. He was very accustomed to reality and extremely familiar with it.




I note your assurances, but will not reach any conclusions based upon them. What is the nature of this secular moral framework? Is there more information you could provide? Its beyond my practical means to research into it myself at the moment, but I would be delighted to review anything you submit. :smile: I'm not exactly adept when it comes to philosophical figures. :grin:

Quote:


I have discomfort with your use of "effectively". I think a better term would be "accurately", and accuracy does not imply efficiency.




The more accurate one's model of reality is, the more able one is to interact in accordance with reality, which implies that one has the means to be more effective in developing oneself and reality.

A map through treacherous waters might not be as preferential as one that depicts clear sailing, but following the illusory one will not provide one with an opportunity to make it through the dangerous sea. The more accurate representation of reality as it has been presented, the more one knows and realizes reality for what it is - knowledge is power, eh?

Quote:


I don't think a presentation of objective reality would be as effective in repairing their life as the myth of Divinity.




I think a presentation of objective reality would require more inner discipline and more awareness then simply adopting some myth as truth. Bringing awareness within oneself will always be more effective, even if it is not the most comfortable or easiest path to access. Knowing oneself does not imply creating abstract notions that enable oneself.

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5935014 - 08/05/06 06:17 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

you say knowing oneself as if this is such an easy thing to do that everyone understands and has no problems carrying out. you're over looking the fact that some people choose to use christianity (or another religion) as a means for bringing awareness within themselves. jesus taught self knowledge and following his teachings are an excelent method of progressing towards this goal for many people.

5. Jesus said, "Know what is in front of your face, and what is hidden from you will be disclosed to you."


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: Deviate]
    #5935044 - 08/05/06 06:38 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
you say knowing oneself  as if this is such an easy thing to do that everyone understands and has no problems carrying out. you're over looking the fact that some people choose to use christianity (or another religion) as a means for bringing awareness within themselves. jesus taught self knowledge and following his teachings are an excelent method of progressing towards this goal for many people.

5. Jesus said, "Know what is in front of your face, and what is hidden from you will be disclosed to you."




For the most part, I agree with you. Knowing oneself requires understanding, and certainly there are expressions of understanding that one can access and realize for themselves. Jesus' teachings themselves are quite possibly a great tool for developing one's understanding, and the quote you posted in particular is a great summation of my point.

I am simply referring to aspects of religions wherein individuals adopt beliefs that serve as obstructions of one's direct perceptions of reality. If individuals in the Middle East were not programmed with such beliefs, they would not glance at a certain wall or a specific building and declare that others have no right to be there, and they would not be fighting over abstract differences.

Understanding can be shared with others, but it cannot be implanted in others, and understanding does not require adoption of unsubstantiated beliefs in order to be realized. This is my whole point. :wink:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineRRRR
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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5935176 - 08/05/06 08:21 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

RRRR said:
I've done extensive research with Kant, in particular, and I can assure you he had no difficulty coping with reality. His categorical imperative provided an unrivaled secular moral framework. He was very accustomed to reality and extremely familiar with it.




I note your assurances, but will not reach any conclusions based upon them. What is the nature of this secular moral framework? Is there more information you could provide? Its beyond my practical means to research into it myself at the moment, but I would be delighted to review anything you submit. :smile: I'm not exactly adept when it comes to philosophical figures. :grin:




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categorical_imperative
I hold a determined stance on this philosophy, and I'd be more than willing to share or converse on it if you are so inclined after you read the article.

Quote:


Knowing oneself does not imply creating abstract notions that enable oneself.

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:



No, it does not, but it provides a more poetic, warm way of doing so.

Some people just can't function under the premises of cold, rigid, blunt philosophy. They need warmth, they need awe, they need love, they need God. Some people have the "God Gene", as Hamer states in The God Gene: How Faith is Hardwired into our Genes

The yearning for a divine framework could be inherent in some beings. Not everyone functions the same under a uniform paradigm. Different strokes for different folks  :wink:


--------------------
Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: RRRR]
    #5935283 - 08/05/06 09:25 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

RRRR said:
I hold a determined stance on this philosophy, and I'd be more than willing to share or converse on it if you are so inclined after you read the article.




I started reading that link and gave the rest a quick overview, as I am suffering from a lack of sleep. I will certainly bring more time and focus into it later on. However, from what I have already read, I do not highly regard the concept of a categorical imperative. If morality were universal, then it would be evident in all actions. I can understand the desire to maintain a sense of a universal morality amongst society, and certainly this is what certain religions have tried to do. I think that this has had a negative effect on society, in fact.

Quote:


Some people just can't function under the premises of cold, rigid, blunt philosophy.




One's experience of reality is not cold, rigid, and blunt - it is lively, vibrant, cosmic, and it is truth. I conclude that what you are implying is that some people simply cannot deal with reality as it actually is, so they require something to comfort them and give them meaning that they cannot find within themselves and their direct experience.

Quote:


They need warmth, they need awe, they need love, they need God.




I see no lack of the abundance of the amazing qualities of life, love included, when one simply experiences life to its fullest. They need those things because they lack those things, and they lack those things because their mind obstructs them from their experience. God is an abstract substitution for the all-encompassing self that they should be directly experiencing their being as.

Quote:


The yearning for a divine framework could be inherent in some beings. 




I'm sure it is, and it results from a sense of lack. One does not yearn for what is readily available. :smirk:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineRRRR
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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5935298 - 08/05/06 09:33 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:

If morality were universal, then it would be evident in all actions.





The categorical imperative is not descriptive, it is prescriptive. It doesn't state how things are, but rather how things should be.
Quote:


One's experience of reality is not cold, rigid, and blunt - it is lively, vibrant, cosmic, and it is truth. I conclude that what you are implying is that some people simply cannot deal with reality as it actually is, so they require something to comfort them and give them meaning that they cannot find within themselves and their direct experience.



I was comparing secular self-exploring philosophical literature to theological/mystical insightful literature.

Objectivism or nihilism, for example, are both far more cold than mysticism or mythology.




Quote:

I'm sure it is, and it results from a sense of lack. One does not yearn for what is readily available. :smirk:




I agree, it does result from a sense of lack. But who is without lack. Are you? This sense of "lack" is a powerful intellectual driving force. Some say perfection is lacking, for lacking provides room for growth.


--------------------
Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)


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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: RRRR]
    #5935303 - 08/05/06 09:36 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Please don't go and insult nihilism, it's actually very warm, it just has a very bad rep about it being cold and heartless or some other such uninformed nonsense.

I HAD to say that because of what you said, but I don't have time for any deeper sort of reply, maybe I'll do that tomorrow.


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OfflineRRRR
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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: vampirism]
    #5935309 - 08/05/06 09:39 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

I am very familiar with nihilism, don't get me wrong. No matter how you sugar coat it, the fundamental position of nihilism argues that the world is without value. No meaning, no purpose, no truth, no morality.

If that isn't cold, tell me what is.


--------------------
Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)


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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: RRRR]
    #5935325 - 08/05/06 09:47 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

yes, from the outside viewer's perspective it's cold, damn cold. In practice it's very warm. If life has no purpose or meaning or truth, then it doesn't really matter what you do. I see that as the ultimate expression of freedom. And really, once you have that precious, intangible thing -- freedom, the rest doesn't even matter that much anyway.

Have you read any nihilistic novels? One person who comes to mind is Louis-Ferdinand Celine, and I think he can give a very good sense of what I mean.


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OfflineRRRR
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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: vampirism]
    #5935341 - 08/05/06 09:55 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Just Nietzsche.

I just find trouble living a life without purpose. I'm very purpose driven  :cool:


--------------------
Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)


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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: RRRR]
    #5935369 - 08/05/06 10:08 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

you know, I think most people would say that about me, but I wouldn't.

I'm actually sort of anti-purpose because of my experience. I feel that having some ultimate purpose devalues life on the micro-level. I've found that by concentrating on devoting myself to the moment, I actually tremendously improve my long-term prospects without actively trying to.

I think ultimately I'm much more of a pragmatist than a moralist, so I'm OK with any of my beliefs seeming horrible or weak, because they work for me. To explain why they work for me, I might say that a rejection of any ultimate purpose has no negative effect on reality because, well, it's purely mental. In effect, I'm simply giving my intuition more weight in my actions, which makes me happier.

it's kind of funny how stuff can reverse long/short term at times. Sort of how it's been noted that pure hedonism leads to all sorts of maladies like being fat and diseased, yet it's the most immediately pleasurable.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: RRRR]
    #5935386 - 08/05/06 10:19 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Firefox is a glitched piece of shit, first and foremost. :mad:

Quote:

RRRR said:
The categorical imperative is not descriptive, it is prescriptive. It doesn't state how things are, but rather how things should be.




Without an effective model of reality that reflects reality as it can be directly perceived, then one is unable to manifest "how things should be". The more one understand reality as it is, and accepts its nature, then one is more equipped to conform reality to one's expectations of it. Without a sense of the nature of reality, without fully immersing oneself in reality as it exists, without dissolving obstructions of one's perceptions of reality by bringing awareness within, then one is unable to most beneficially effect change.

One needs to be able to draw a map and say, this is the territory, this is where we've been, this is who we are as a result, we forecast that this is what lies ahead for us, and, ultimately, this is where we are trying to arrive at, so this is what we need to do to make it more likely that we will arrive there.

It requires an honest assessment of reality, it is necessary that a distinct individual arises and immerses themselves in the Unmitigated Light of Reality. That is gnosis, to be fully aware of the present experience. :thumbup:

Quote:


I was comparing secular self-exploring philosophical literature to theological/mystical insightful literature.

Objectivism or nihilism, for example, are both far more cold than mysticism or mythology.




I can understand why you would express that these philosophies are without consideration of the experience of human beings interacting with reality, if that is what you refer to with the descriptive word "cold". :smirk:

However, I hope that you did not identify my expressed perspsective as being similar to or resulting from objectivism or nihilism. If so, please demonstrate your reasoning.

Also, I am concerned that this is being proposed as justification for adopting myth, since objectivism or nihlism cannot represent the reality we directly perceive, or our experience within it, as it. I am not formally adept in philosophy, but I gather that objectivism asserts that all reality exists objectively, externally from the mind, which denies the obvious fact that the mind itself is an aspect of reality. More obviously, existance exists. :lol: It would seem to be an axiom, eh?

Quote:


I agree, it does result from a sense of lack. But who is without lack. Are you? This sense of "lack" is a powerful intellectual driving force. Some say perfection is lacking, for lacking provides room for growth.




Am I without lack? I make a distinction between practical lack, such as "I lack the necessary funds to purchase a guitar", and that of emotional lack, which is what I think I was addressing. The self exists as the culmination of all experience in this moment, so what could be lacking? Those who derive a sense of fufillment and peace from their experience of reality are not lacking in the same way that I proposed others may be.

We exist as a form that is continuously changing, as we interact with reality, and that we are transforming implies that there is potential that is not yet realized, but I do not consider this to be lack. We are complete, even as there is formlessness that is yet to be manifested.

Feeling lack is no justification for adopting beliefs that offer one security, chasm-jump over unanswered questions that we pose concerning life and reality, act as a crutch for the fact that we are unable to discipline ourselves to be conductors of reality, or support obstructions of our direct experience that prevent awareness from being developed. :wink:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: RRRR]
    #5935397 - 08/05/06 10:25 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

RRRR said:
I am very familiar with nihilism, don't get me wrong. No matter how you sugar coat it, the fundamental position of nihilism argues that the world is without value. No meaning, no purpose, no truth, no morality. 




I do not adopt preconceived beliefs as my own, so I will not speak for nihlism or propose to know what it is about, but the notion that existance is without inherent meaning or purpose, that it simply is, dissolves all preconceptions of what reality is, and allows one to simply perceive and observe it for what it is.

Meaning and purpose are not inherent, they are implied, by ourselves. Reality does have meaning and purpose, in that, we, aspects of reality, are attributing meaning and purpose to it.

Dissolving the illusion that reality itself is embedded with meaning and purpose reveals our incredible role in creating meaning and purpose, which gives us human beings the opportunity to find our own meaning, value, and purpose. :thumbup:

Of course, asserting that existance itself does not exist isn't exactly the most productive pursuit. :lol:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: RRRR]
    #5935550 - 08/06/06 12:01 AM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Immanuel Kant was a Christian, did he lack the ability to cope with reality?

I always thought Kant's synethetic a prior was rather imaginary. :lol:


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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: RRRR]
    #5935564 - 08/06/06 12:07 AM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Some people just can't function under the premises of cold, rigid, blunt philosophy. They need warmth, they need awe, they need love, they need God.

In other words, they need to believe in some ultimate power outside their Self to...?


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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5935569 - 08/06/06 12:09 AM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

MushmanTheManic said:
Some people just can't function under the premises of cold, rigid, blunt philosophy. They need warmth, they need awe, they need love, they need God.

In other words, they need to believe in some ultimate power outside their Self to...?



I don't really think of God as being outside of myself.


--------------------


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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5935574 - 08/06/06 12:12 AM (16 years, 10 days ago)

existance exists. :lol: It would seem to be an axiom, eh?

Don't get sucked into their trap! "Existence exists" is true merely by definition, it must be true. The phrase is similar to "All swimming beings swim" or some other twaddle, it doesn't tell us anything about reality. What is existence? Well gee, I dunno.. but existence must exist, otherwise it wouldn't be existence!


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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: RRRR]
    #5935584 - 08/06/06 12:15 AM (16 years, 10 days ago)

If that isn't cold, tell me what is.

It is cold, at first, but after a radical reconstruction of your schemata, you find it is quite refreshing.  :cool:


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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: Silversoul]
    #5935592 - 08/06/06 12:20 AM (16 years, 10 days ago)

It is still more than your Self.


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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5935600 - 08/06/06 12:23 AM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

MushmanTheManic said:
It is still more than your Self.



True, but it's not outside of me. Rather, I'm inside of it.


--------------------


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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: Silversoul]
    #5936381 - 08/06/06 10:01 AM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
True, but it's not outside of me.  Rather, I'm inside of it.




To know this, then there must be some amount of information derived from being inside of it that would indicate that you are.

Simply knowing that you are doesn't exactly count... give us more information! :grin:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: The Practical Path Reflects Reality [Re: Silversoul]
    #5950143 - 08/10/06 12:54 PM (16 years, 6 days ago)

We were born with it, but have the power to keep it out of us.
Then it depends on how much of it you let in before it will take us back again :smile:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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