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OfflinePowerTrip
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Is bodybuilding really an ego building practice?
    #5929789 - 08/03/06 09:12 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Do you feel that people who pursue bodybuilding do so as a means to enhance their own ego? When I say bodybuilding I am referring to anyone who lifts weights regularly with the only intent being to enhance their own appearance (not those who train for sports). Do bodybuilding and Buddhist practices contradict each other on some level?


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I spit reality, instead of what you usually learn
and I refuse to be concerned with condescending advice
cause I'm the only motherfucker that can change my life


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OfflineFospher
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Re: Is bodybuilding really an ego building practice? [Re: PowerTrip]
    #5929987 - 08/03/06 10:43 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Bodybuilding for the sake of looks is definetely contradictory to Buddhist practices. Even if it's not for a sense of superiority, but just for self-esteem, in that alone it signifies the independence of the self.

With that said, I work out on a daily basis. I run or swim, then do resistance training. Besides bench lift, which I've started fairly recently (I usually go by myself - so not having a spotter can be a problem when you can't lift something that can potentially crush your ribs), I don't work with any dumbells. My workouts follow Bruce Lee's ideaology of balancing out your muscles - because if your body is in sync even if you do get knocked down - your body will bring you right back up.

I work out hardcore, I lift till it hurts, and I run till I'm about to pass out. I do it to compensate for the indulgences of my day, and it returns it gives me energy. Constant exercise, exposure to nature, a strict, minimal diet, and meditation are the recipe for impeccable intent.


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InvisibleCracka_X
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Re: Is bodybuilding really an ego building practice? [Re: PowerTrip]
    #5929992 - 08/03/06 10:45 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

That's a funny question which I think, for the most part, is true. I'm not bodybulding for the sake of body building as a collegiate athlete but I do feel like I'm on a different level afterwards. Scientifically, when you lift you release testosterone. Certain lifts like the bench press will emit more testosterone and build your testosterone pools. Therefore giving you MORE testosterone. The physiology of the body is wild on what you bring to it and how it'll respond. It's always adapting.

But if Buddha sat around all day just meditating, unless he let out tremendous testosterone mentally while meditating, I guess you could say these two practices contradict each other.

I've yet to read any of those recommended books but from what I understand about Chinese philosophy is that you love fellow man and live with nature.. etc.. And the meditation is introspective benefitting the self in a way. Bodybuilding is a distraction almost from problems, or vent. I mean you give a very broad question.


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing


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Invisibleit stars saddam
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Re: Is bodybuilding really an ego building practice? [Re: PowerTrip]
    #5930006 - 08/03/06 10:53 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Just think for yourself and question authority (even if that authority is Buddha). If lifting weights makes you feel good about yourself then just do it instead of stressing out over whether or not you are constantly living within the confines of the dogmatic Buddhist doctrine. Geez, what a sad way to go through life.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Is bodybuilding really an ego building practice? [Re: PowerTrip]
    #5930729 - 08/04/06 08:12 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

PowerTrip said:
Do you feel that people who pursue bodybuilding do so as a means to enhance their own ego?  When I say bodybuilding I am referring to anyone who lifts weights regularly with the only intent being to enhance their own appearance (not those who train for sports).  Do bodybuilding and Buddhist practices contradict each other on some level?




I'd say, there are spiritual Body Builders, that simply enjoy their own appearance..
..that know they are their own-self-doing, together with the rest, ... Ecterea...

Maybe the ego thing kicks in, when they do it to display their body, mainly/ONLY for others? To gain status?!

Cool post! I like that/this notion.
And I kind of see the ego as a liver or a hearth, .. you don't remove it, ..
Maybe I define Ego; as The self SEPARATED from the others..
And think that; as we merge, there is no reason to loose our identity..

"Both, ...and then some!"
-Unknown :p

:crazy2: :thumbup:


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Is bodybuilding really an ego building practice? [Re: PowerTrip]
    #5930806 - 08/04/06 08:48 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Competitive body builders will do just about anything to "win" their pose offs including steroids. Vanity with a capital V.

The "best" part is when the finalist heavyweight guys are all on stage together strutting around and posing. Before I found out it was largely done with drugs that will kill many of these people at an early age, I had fun watching it. Now it's like watching Barry Bonds going after the home run record. The thrill is gone.


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Anxiety is what you make it.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Is bodybuilding really an ego building practice? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #5931117 - 08/04/06 11:09 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

The thrill is gone in watching a mushroom user go for enlightenment, as well, eh? Using drugs = no thrill. :confused:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Is bodybuilding really an ego building practice? [Re: PowerTrip]
    #5931140 - 08/04/06 11:17 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

PowerTrip said:
Do you feel that people who pursue bodybuilding do so as a means to enhance their own ego?  When I say bodybuilding I am referring to anyone who lifts weights regularly with the only intent being to enhance their own appearance (not those who train for sports).




The only difference that distinguishes someone who actively, consistently works with weights in order to develop their muscles and someone who simply works with weights in order to enhance their own image is one of intention.

I do not comprehend how "enhancing one's own appearance" is necessarily done to "enhance one's own ego". I assume that, when you refer to an ego, you are speaking of one's sense of self and identity. One can "enhance one's own appearance" while not motivated by a need to "enhance one's sense of identity".

Do some people lift weights in order to fufill a desire to appear a certain way to others, to feel better about themselves, etc.? Its certainly possible. There isn't anything inherently wrong in doing so. Its their choice, rooted in delusion or egoic needs or not.

Do I feel as though individuals who do lift weights are doing so in order to "enhance their ego"? As I have already stated, it is simply a question of intent, which would require a review of each individual, eh?

Quote:


  Do bodybuilding and Buddhist practices contradict each other on some level?




Not as far as I can tell. As long as Buddhists still do stuff, then bodybuilding would not contradict their practices. :lol:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflinexDuckYouSuckerx
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Re: Is bodybuilding really an ego building practice? [Re: PowerTrip]
    #5931326 - 08/04/06 12:24 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Bodybuilders are very aware of their bodies. I think that taking care of your body is a very "Zen" thing to do, I also think that you can work out addictively and it's bad. However, most guys I know that work out seriously are very much so happy with it. Being active and energetic is a good thing.


--------------------
Unions are the bastions of the mediocre. - luvdemshrooms


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Is bodybuilding really an ego building practice? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5931335 - 08/04/06 12:27 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Poster: fireworks_god
Subject: Re: Is bodybuilding really an ego building practice?

The thrill is gone in watching a mushroom user go for enlightenment, as well, eh? Using drugs = no thrill.


Peace.





"Watching a mushroom user go for enlightenment"

I can just imagine the cable program Psilly People...

"Yes he's upped the dosage yet again, this time he's REALLY going to be enlightened. We should be able to watch the glow off him with our special enlightenment detection camera."

And now a word from our sponsor...


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Is bodybuilding really an ego building practice? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5931353 - 08/04/06 12:35 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Nothing like a little Roid Rage at the Buddhist Temple to really test the monks...


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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Offlinesoulcircus
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Re: Is bodybuilding really an ego building practice? *DELETED* [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #5931464 - 08/04/06 01:30 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Post deleted by soulcircus

Reason for deletion: .



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Offlineleery11
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Re: Is bodybuilding really an ego building practice? [Re: soulcircus]
    #5931575 - 08/04/06 02:07 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

i simply wish to chime in on the title of the topic, rather than look at the discussion.

hope that's okay.

I think body-building can definitely inflate self-esteem and tie one into the physical aspect of their psyche moreso than other parts. However I think an integral part of human living in the third dimension involves maintaing your ability to survive and do so flourishingly by keeping your body well taken care of and up to its full potential.

The results are similar, an inflatoin, but what is inflated depends upon the goal. For instance yoga is definitely a form of body building, yet it is part of a path to complete liberation. However yoga can be done spiritually, or simply physically as a workout. Or both.

Either way, on either path, the obvious is a large increase in self esteem. Self esteem is a function of the lower chakras, as is healthy body, however without the lower chakras open and functioning it is hard to pave the way to ego transcendence in the higher chakras.

So basically, one may work out and body build only to conform to his standards of beauty and improve his esteem at having reached those results through a disciplined regime. This could be seen as soley ego building. Another could body build for almost the exact same reasons, and yet it is only because they wish to become in tune with and more pleased with their physical vessel for the exploration of conscisousness, and for this person though he also gets the boost in self esteem from looking good, it is simply a part of his quest for wholeness.

And wholeness does not mean neglecting the body. That is one way to blast into the realms of transcended ego, but it is a very harsh way, and even with a loosened, dying, disappearing, or perhaps nonexistant ego, one can still function in the physical if he chooses.

At least, I believe this to be so. If we base ego on the chakra system, you could have any possible configuration of alignments. Open crown, open root, centered in the solar plexus and aware of the world.... closed crown, closed eye, open throat, heart, root....

who knows what. It depends on how you want to work.

So body building is really just a tool for people to use. If their only goal is bodily and wordly satisfaction, that is all they will get from it. But it is likely an integral part of spiritual living too. Not necessarily lifting tons of weights and getting "built" so much as just fine tuning and respecting your body and encouragingi it to operate at its higher potentials.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Is bodybuilding really an ego building practice? [Re: soulcircus]
    #5931766 - 08/04/06 03:08 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

soulcircus said:
i don't think you can bodybuild and follow a spiritual path at all.




Can you drive a car and follow a spiritual path? Can you walk around your home and follow a spiritual path? What great distinction exists that implies that one cannot work with weights and follow "a spiritual path"? :wtf: Apparently developing one's physical body and engaging in healthy behavior is not spiritual. :smirk:

Quote:


i use to bodybuild several months ago, but realised it was only an ego boost for egotistical purposes and i only ever wanted to get bigger. at the time it was fun and rewarding, but at the same time i was so self critical and obsessed, i realised it was a ridiculous attempt at greater hapyness




So you had problems engaging in an activity without inflating your own ego, so, therefore, the activity itself is to blame. This isn't exactly a reasonable conclusion. Its like saying one cannot golf and be spiritual because you personally only golfed in order to show off to others. :nonono:

I would encourage in developing a perspective that is not centered in one's own identity. One cannot let their perspective of reality be obscured by their own sense of identity and walk "a spiritual path". :wink:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflinexDuckYouSuckerx
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Re: Is bodybuilding really an ego building practice? [Re: soulcircus]
    #5931829 - 08/04/06 03:24 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

soulcircus said:
i don't think you can bodybuild and follow a spiritual path at all.
i use to bodybuild several months ago, but realised it was only an ego boost for egotistical purposes and i only ever wanted to get bigger. at the time it was fun and rewarding, but at the same time i was so self critical and obsessed, i realised it was a ridiculous attempt at greater hapyness




Entirely false. Just because it happens to you, don't claim to speak as if you are channeling the Buddha. If you are totally aware of something, you can do it and still be on the path. If you are aware that strength training makes your bones stronger, your joints more flexible and your muscles stronger, then why wouldn't you do it? Are you in shape at all? I think that some people hide behing the "it's just not as enlightened as I am" as an excuse.

Also, the entire first question was flawed. The question asked if bodybuilders who lift "just to look good" are too ego-based. First, their is nothing wrong with looking good. Secondly, not every bodybuilder cares specifically about looking good. I prefer to be strong, really, so that I can do more things in the physical world. If I wasn't into lifting weights, I'd have never have been able to travel to some of the places that I've gone, i just wouldn't have been physically capable of rock climbign all day long with a 40 lb pack on.

Just like anything in life, you can do it addictively and in a manner that clings to ego, or you can do it and be completely in the present and enjoy it for what it's worth. A guy who is benching 550 lbs can be in there and totally aware and in the present while some guy wearing robes and shaving his head could be doing it to massage his ego and "show" how he is so spiritual


--------------------
Unions are the bastions of the mediocre. - luvdemshrooms


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OfflineRRRR
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Re: Is bodybuilding really an ego building practice? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5931830 - 08/04/06 03:24 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

soulcircus said:
i don't think you can bodybuild and follow a spiritual path at all.




Can you drive a car and follow a spiritual path? Can you walk around your home and follow a spiritual path? What great distinction exists that implies that one cannot work with weights and follow "a spiritual path"? :wtf: Apparently developing one's physical body and engaging in healthy behavior is not spiritual. :smirk:

Quote:


i use to bodybuild several months ago, but realised it was only an ego boost for egotistical purposes and i only ever wanted to get bigger. at the time it was fun and rewarding, but at the same time i was so self critical and obsessed, i realised it was a ridiculous attempt at greater hapyness




So you had problems engaging in an activity without inflating your own ego, so, therefore, the activity itself is to blame. This isn't exactly a reasonable conclusion. Its like saying one cannot golf and be spiritual because you personally only golfed in order to show off to others. :nonono:

I would encourage in developing a perspective that is not centered in one's own identity. One cannot let their perspective of reality be obscured by their own sense of identity and walk "a spiritual path". :wink:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:



:thumbup:


--------------------
Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Is bodybuilding really an ego building practice? [Re: xDuckYouSuckerx]
    #5932049 - 08/04/06 04:30 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

xDuckYouSuckerx said:
Just like anything in life, you can do it addictively and in a manner that clings to ego, or you can do it and be completely in the present and enjoy it for what it's worth.  A guy who is benching 550 lbs can be in there and totally aware and in the present while some guy wearing robes and shaving his head could be doing it to massage his ego and "show" how he is so spiritual




:thumbup:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflinePed
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Re: Is bodybuilding really an ego building practice? [Re: Fospher]
    #5932094 - 08/04/06 04:48 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

>> Bodybuilding for the sake of looks is definetely contradictory to Buddhist practices. Even if it's not for a sense of superiority, but just for self-esteem, in that alone it signifies the independence of the self.

Many people are drawn to the self-annihilating practices of Buddhism because they are lacking in self-esteem. If this is the case, then it may be helpful for them to undertake a self-esteem boosting activity such as body building for the sake of cultivating a more moderate view of self. Sometimes it is helpful to build up the ego before tearing it down. Since self-hatred and self-aggrandization are two aspects of the same phenomenon -- an exaggerated view of self -- it is sometimes helpful to first correct one extreme by engaging in another.

Most important before starting any kind of spiritual journey is to be thoroughly aware of where you are. The only way to get where you're going is to start where you are. Shantideva's advice is that we remain natural while changing our intentions. From here there can be no contradictions.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Is bodybuilding really an ego building practice? [Re: Ped]
    #5932115 - 08/04/06 04:53 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Ped said:
The only way to get where you're going is to start where you are.




Direct perception of the self, and complete acceptance of reality as it has been presented. :grin:

I would propose that suffering results from refusing to accept reality, from struggling agansit the rip tide that reality is. One simply must accept their current situation, and navigate the flow that one is immersed within in order to reach one's destination.

Eh? :wink:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinealarmist
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Re: Is bodybuilding really an ego building practice? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5932202 - 08/04/06 05:26 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

if it makes you feel better, i say go for it

personally, i love to push myself as much as i can which is why i enjoy running so much and why i began to recently weightlift again...it takes some mental strength to tell yourelf that you are able to run for that one extra mile or that you will squeeze out that one last rep or go until failure

i see nothing wrong with it at all


--------------------
there's no love in fear


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