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OfflineFrenchSocialist
DarwinianLeftist

Registered: 08/02/06
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50 years of academic study--conservatives are followers
    #5927586 - 08/03/06 12:58 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Video_50_year_study_says_conservatives_0711.html


Quote:


I ran into a massive study that has really been going on 50 years now by academics. They've never really shared this with the general public. It's a remarkable analysis of the authoritarian personality. Both those who are inclined to follow leaders and those who jump in front and want to be the leaders. It was not the opinion of social scientists. It was information they drew by questioning large numbers of people -- hundreds of thousands of people -- in anonymous testing where [the subjects] conceded their innermost feelings and reactions to things. And it came out that most of these people were pre-qualified to be conservatives and this, did indeed, fit with the authoritarian personality.

...

They have found, really, maybe a small, 1%, of the left who will follow authoritarianism. Probably the far left. As far as widespread testing, it's just overwhelmingly conservative orientation.




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"Both liberty and equality are among the primary goals pursued by human beings through many centuries; but total liberty for wolves is death to the lambs" -- Isaiah Berlin

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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: 50 years of academic study--conservatives are followers [Re: FrenchSocialist]
    #5927678 - 08/03/06 02:08 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

several thousand years of human history--polarizing issues with words like "conservative" is an easy way to fool idiots into choosing either of two completely wrong affiliations.

FYI, anyone who thinks the world is only "liberals" and "conservatives", and that one is right and the other is wrong, is not intelligent enough to contribute to a democracy. At the most, that kind of thinking deserves 3/5 of a vote. More realistically, it deserves to have voting priveleges revoked until they're educated enough to vote intelligently instead of pushing for their "team" as though politics is a fucking sports match.


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I find your lack of faith disturbing

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OfflineFrenchSocialist
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Re: 50 years of academic study--conservatives are followers [Re: Konnrade]
    #5927717 - 08/03/06 03:02 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Konnrade said:
several thousand years of human history--polarizing issues with words like "conservative" is an easy way to fool idiots into choosing either of two completely wrong affiliations.

FYI, anyone who thinks the world is only "liberals" and "conservatives", and that one is right and the other is wrong, is not intelligent enough to contribute to a democracy. At the most, that kind of thinking deserves 3/5 of a vote. More realistically, it deserves to have voting priveleges revoked until they're educated enough to vote intelligently instead of pushing for their "team" as though politics is a fucking sports match.




Yet these groups are generally correlated with various traits that would be expected for the respective group. For example, conservatives are generally more likely to be religious, come from rural areas, and vote republican. Liberals are more likely to be secular, come from urban areas and vote democrat. Even birth order shows correlation--with first borns generally more conservative and later borns more liberal. Behavioral genetics shows a correlation of these two basic categories as well (i.e. if your identical twin is a conservative, its almost certain you will be as well).

Not only that, but if you compare a person's individual beliefs, like lets say their view of gay marriage and the war in Iraq-- if the person is for the war on iraq, there is a good chance that person is against gay marriage, and also for prayer in school. Or if the person is lets say for the teaching of creationism in public schools-there is a good chance that this person is for the death penalty. Likewise if they are for the ten commandments in school, they are likely against environmental protection. From a strictly logical viewpoint these beliefs have nothing to do with eachother. Gay marriage has nothing to do with the war in Iraq, creationism has nothing to do with the death penalty. Yet if you look at the stats it shows that these beliefs tend to come as a packaged deal--being pro-life tends to come with being against gay marriage, along with being for gun ownership and free market. Very rarely do individuals exhibit an even mix, usually almost all their positions will sway primarily in one direction, with just a couple few and far between exceptions.


The reason for this is because these beliefs are probably not determined by logical deduction or empirical study, but more often then not by a person's attitude. And arguments for or against positions, are often not examples of honest reasoning but rationalizations for pre-existing biases.

Rarely do I see an individual who seriously looks at the relevant statistics first when deciding on political matters, or forms a conclusion on, lets say gay marriage starting with axiomic epistemic principles--but I see people forming snap judgments left and right. Maybe you would be correct if the matter was one of pure logic, or science, but politics is not like that-- in politics things like attitude and bias enter the picture. And the general distinction in biases between liberal and conservative have been with us for a long time--for as long as Gallup started polling people's political affiliations (the number of people claiming to be conservative/moderate/liberals in America has remained steadily 40/40/20% over the last century). Thus the distinction between liberal and conservative is not artificial but a long-standing political reality. It has always been that way and it will always be that way.

In any event philosophical disagreements are insufficient grounds for questioning five decades worth of sociological data. You cannot just dismiss scientific studies just because you don't agree with some of the definitions that the scientists use. The best antidote to a statistical study from a peer-reviewed journal that you find disagreeable are counter-statistics from another peer-reviewed journal or evidence of methodological flaw- all else is mere semantics.

Also if you want to go out and say political opinions should be based on evidence, and rational thought then you should be extra mindful about leading by example. When confronted with evidence for a position you disagree with, you should give a proper response. If you don't like the statistics, prove them wrong, don't just go off on how someone doesn't deserve to get as much of a vote just because they have a different political opinions. Maybe their opinions are based on actual research data, and not knee-jerk reactions. It's not good to presume because one often presumes wrongly.


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"Both liberty and equality are among the primary goals pursued by human beings through many centuries; but total liberty for wolves is death to the lambs" -- Isaiah Berlin

Edited by FrenchSocialist (08/03/06 03:59 AM)

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: 50 years of academic study--conservatives are followers [Re: FrenchSocialist]
    #5928111 - 08/03/06 09:43 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Really excellent link to the study. Thanks for providing such fine research so we can know exactly what John Dean says on the Keith Olberman Show. You da man.

Edited for the wrong Dean.


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Edited by zappaisgod (08/03/06 12:19 PM)

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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: 50 years of academic study--conservatives are followers [Re: FrenchSocialist]
    #5928291 - 08/03/06 11:09 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Keep in mind my comment was not directed at you personally, and that it's composed mostly of hyperbole, but there are not only conservatives and liberals in this world. Those simple and limited distinctions may be convenient for use in conducting research, but they aren't a sufficient way to classify the entirety of the population.

I'm an example of that. My stances on different matters are likely to get both "sides" of the issue pissed off at me.

"Conservative" and "Liberal" are just polar ends of a very large spectrum. Dividing the population into only those two groups has a counter-productive psychological effect. People are told there are only those two ends because those telling them desire to manipulate them with this polarization. If the plebes think there are only two choices when they vote, then the lack of options makes it that much easier to manipulate them into voting as desired.

Polarity is not good for politics.


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I find your lack of faith disturbing

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: 50 years of academic study--conservatives are followers [Re: Konnrade]
    #5928454 - 08/03/06 12:27 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Konnrade, did you check the link?

Here's the first line:

"In an interview with MSNBC's Keith Olbermann, former Nixon counsel John Dean explained a largely unknown 50 year academic study."

There is no mention anywhere of who did this study, what it's called, or the affiliation of any group to it. The only description of it is in the above sentence, "largely unknown 50 year..." Doesn't that seem, shall we say, a little sketchy? And John Dean. John fucking Dean with a book to sell! This man hasn't been coherent since his release from prison 30 years ago. And he isn't coherent here. You gave the amphibious Marxist far too reasoned a response for an utterly content-free post.


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Offlinewilshire
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Re: 50 years of academic study--conservatives are followers [Re: FrenchSocialist]
    #5928621 - 08/03/06 01:38 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

if we cannot read this study for ourselves, what on earth is the point of citing it as evidence for anything?


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