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76degrees
Apprentice

Registered: 06/08/06
Posts: 350
Loc: Middle Earth
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
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WBS without a pressure cooker?
#5925900 - 08/02/06 04:04 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Ok, I'm getting ready to prep some WBS. I've heard you can prepare grain without a PC. I don't remember what the process is called. I was wondering if anyone here has experience with this problem. Thanks.
-------------------- The world is changed. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air. Much that once was is lost, for none now live who remember it.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: WBS without a pressure cooker? [Re: 76degrees]
#5925912 - 08/02/06 04:08 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
76degrees said: I've heard you can prepare grain without a PC.
I've heard many things, most of which arent true
those that have had luck with non-PC methods have had just that, luck buy a PC if you plan on using grains
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76degrees
Apprentice

Registered: 06/08/06
Posts: 350
Loc: Middle Earth
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
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Re: WBS without a pressure cooker? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#5925920 - 08/02/06 04:11 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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I have a PC but it's old and needs a new gasket.
-------------------- The world is changed. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air. Much that once was is lost, for none now live who remember it.
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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Re: WBS without a pressure cooker? [Re: 76degrees]
#5925930 - 08/02/06 04:14 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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fractional sterilization, I believe.
get a new gasket and pc your grains. Don't bother wasting your time trying to do it a harder way.
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itsbreck
Crunk

Registered: 01/25/06
Posts: 447
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Re: WBS without a pressure cooker? [Re: 76degrees]
#5925935 - 08/02/06 04:15 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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i highly recommend the use of a pressure cooker for grains
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ComfortablyStond
Mr. Lizard


Registered: 03/15/06
Posts: 239
Loc: Psychedelphia, USA
Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
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Re: WBS without a pressure cooker? [Re: 76degrees]
#5925942 - 08/02/06 04:16 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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I had a similar situation also. I tried a couple different methods, tried the oven tek, tried the steaming tek, tried alot of other shit people suggested. Then, after all these methods proved a 95% contam rate, I found the solution to my problem. I had to suck it up and take my happy ass to the store and buy a PC.
Were I you, I wouldn't even bother with trying anything else to prep WBS, or any other type of grain, as only the heat of the PC will penetrate thru to the heart of the individual grains sterilizing them inside as well as out, without burning or rupturing the grains. Don't waste your time with it until you can afford to buy a PC. Check eBay, Goodwill, local thrift shops, whatever. It's worth the wait, ask most anybody here, they'll tell ya same.
Peace.
-------------------- "It's not a war on drugs. It's a war on personal freedom. Keep that in mind at all times..." Bill Hicks
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: WBS without a pressure cooker? [Re: 76degrees]
#5925952 - 08/02/06 04:19 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
76degrees said: I have a PC but it's old and needs a new gasket.
gasket=cheap insurance
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itsbreck
Crunk

Registered: 01/25/06
Posts: 447
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i've said it more than once, and i'll say it again...a pressure cooker is probably the best investment you can make in this hobby
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wiggles
Miffed a Milf


Registered: 11/09/05
Posts: 2,615
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Re: WBS without a pressure cooker? [Re: itsbreck]
#5926018 - 08/02/06 04:44 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Get a pressure cooker. Fractional sterilization takes longer, its harder to do, and it's really not worth it because of the failure rate. Save yourself the time and money, and just get a PC.
--------------------
  You can turn your back on a person, but never turn your back on a drug, especially when its waving a razor sharp hunting knife in your eye. Hunter S. Thompson
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Rahz
Alive Again


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Re: WBS without a pressure cooker? [Re: 76degrees]
#5926075 - 08/02/06 05:04 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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I've had success using crushed corn cob. It's granulated to about the same size as seed, and only needs to be boiled. Can be bought at the pet store.
The thing with cob is: It makes great 2nd generation spawn. But if you wanted to inoculate jars of it (which I've done) you need to soak the cob, boil the cob, strain it, load jars, and boil again for 1/2 hour.
It works in a pinch, but with the extra work, it's worth it to just buy a pressure cooker.
Now, if you wanted to spawn WBS to more spawn, and turn a couple quarts into a couple gallons... crushed cob rules 
The WBS technique your talking about is fractal sterilization, or Tindalization. But honestly, 40 dollars will get you a 12 quart Mirro PC that will do 4 quart jars at a time.
Rahz
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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ComfortablyStond
Mr. Lizard


Registered: 03/15/06
Posts: 239
Loc: Psychedelphia, USA
Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
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Re: WBS without a pressure cooker? [Re: Rahz]
#5926112 - 08/02/06 05:14 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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This "crushed corn cob" you speak of...is it the same as the corn cob slurry? And if so, how in hell do you keep it from contaminating?
-------------------- "It's not a war on drugs. It's a war on personal freedom. Keep that in mind at all times..." Bill Hicks
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76degrees
Apprentice

Registered: 06/08/06
Posts: 350
Loc: Middle Earth
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
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Well, If I had any extra money I'd just buy a gasket for my old PC. Right now I have lots of time and I don't mind doing fractal sterilization. So, I was just wondering if anyone here has done WBS using the fractal sterilization method.
-------------------- The world is changed. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air. Much that once was is lost, for none now live who remember it.
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FungusMan
I81U812



Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 3,112
Loc: Everywhere
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Re: WBS without a pressure cooker? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#5926412 - 08/02/06 06:50 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
76degrees said: I've heard you can prepare grain without a PC.
I've heard many things, most of which arent true
those that have had luck with non-PC methods have had just that, luck buy a PC if you plan on using grains
Im gonna get shot down on this one (as usual), but I havent used my pc in months. In fact, Ive got my non-pc wbs tek down to a one hour boil after a 48 hour soak. I add about 10% verm to it also. No contams as yet, and have done over 20 jars like this, so I wouldnt call it luck. I have GREAT respect for Pris, but some people get stuck in theyre ways.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
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Re: WBS without a pressure cooker? [Re: FungusMan]
#5926419 - 08/02/06 06:52 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
FungusMan said: so I wouldnt call it luck.
when the majority of us get contams from these methods and a small sampling do, I'm sure luck plays a part
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FungusMan
I81U812



Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 3,112
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Re: WBS without a pressure cooker? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#5926448 - 08/02/06 07:00 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Maybe the majority isnt doing a very good rinse before sterilization. I dunno. I just know that WBS seems to be the most forgiving of the spawns. I have only had 2 spawn jars contam in my career, and they were 1.Rice, and 2.Popcorn. And sure, luck may play a role, but 0/20 contam rate with this method, either Im EXTREMELY LUCKY, or found something that works.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
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Re: WBS without a pressure cooker? [Re: FungusMan]
#5926463 - 08/02/06 07:04 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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try your hand at big money oker tourneys and you;ll know for sure if you're lucky
now give with your methods so other can try, details man, details
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FungusMan
I81U812



Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 3,112
Loc: Everywhere
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Re: WBS without a pressure cooker? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#5926477 - 08/02/06 07:08 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Pretty simple really. Soak for 2 days, rinse in a colander for about ten minutes, or until you can barely smell the "fermentation" smell. For every jar of wbs, add 1 jar of verm, then boil in water for 1 hour. After removed from water, shake vigorously and let cool.
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76degrees
Apprentice

Registered: 06/08/06
Posts: 350
Loc: Middle Earth
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Re: WBS without a pressure cooker? [Re: FungusMan]
#5927163 - 08/02/06 10:19 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Thanks fungus man. I knew it was possible. I think I'll give it a shot because I just got a huge bag of WBS and what do I have to loose? $4 ?? LOL - Big deal, right?
So, is that REALLY all there is to it? Or do you do anything else? I assume you use Tyvek or Coffee filters? Talk to me!
-------------------- The world is changed. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air. Much that once was is lost, for none now live who remember it.
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Tippinthru
contented

Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 1,131
Loc: "The Garden"...
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Re: WBS without a pressure cooker? [Re: 76degrees]
#5927183 - 08/02/06 10:25 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Timetable of the tyndallization (=fractional sterilisation) process
1) Steam heating to 100 °C for 30 min Vegetative cells are destroyed but endospores survive
2) Incubate at 30°C-37°C overnight Most bacterial endospores germinate
3) Second heat treatment, 100 °C, 30 min Germinated endospores are killed.
4) Second incubation at 30°C-37 °C overnight Remaining endospores germinate
5) Third heat treatment, 100 °C, 60 min Last remaining germinated endospores are killed
-------------------- Perfection is attained by slow degrees; it requires the hand of time... [
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FungusMan
I81U812



Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 3,112
Loc: Everywhere
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Re: WBS without a pressure cooker? [Re: 76degrees]
#5927753 - 08/03/06 03:49 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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After the soaking, rinsing, and mixing in of verm (Which I forgot to mention is at field capacity), I place in jars like this  Just a regular jar with a 1/2in hole in the center, stuffed with polyfill. Boil for an hour, shake vigorously and let cool. Also, the tek trippinthru mentioned works also. Matter of fact, that was the way I did it before this way. I dont know the science behind it, but its been workin for me.
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Yefet2000
HolyLandShroom


Registered: 08/24/05
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Re: WBS without a pressure cooker? [Re: FungusMan]
#5927977 - 08/03/06 07:54 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Just buy a pc... Think of it this way, insted of waiting two days, boiling over and over - with a pc you can do it in 4 hours a batch. just rinse,simmer,drain,pc - and Stagadam ! you've done it.
-------------------- Me fail english ? Thats unpossible...
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FungusMan
I81U812



Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 3,112
Loc: Everywhere
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Re: WBS without a pressure cooker? [Re: Yefet2000]
#5927983 - 08/03/06 07:56 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Got one. Waste of money for wbs in my opinion.
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76degrees
Apprentice

Registered: 06/08/06
Posts: 350
Loc: Middle Earth
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
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Re: WBS without a pressure cooker? [Re: FungusMan]
#5928052 - 08/03/06 09:05 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yefet2000, just read all the posts in the thread before you before you state the obvious and make yourself look like a fool. Oops too late. Lol.
-------------------- The world is changed. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air. Much that once was is lost, for none now live who remember it.
Edited by 76degrees (08/03/06 09:07 AM)
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76degrees
Apprentice

Registered: 06/08/06
Posts: 350
Loc: Middle Earth
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
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Re: WBS without a pressure cooker? [Re: 76degrees]
#5933894 - 08/05/06 08:04 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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I was wondering if you can use Tyvek instead of polyfill. Because I don't have any polyfill and I'm not sure where to get it.
-------------------- The world is changed. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air. Much that once was is lost, for none now live who remember it.
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FooMan



Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 8,957
Loc: Earth
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Re: WBS without a pressure cooker? [Re: FungusMan]
#5933936 - 08/05/06 08:42 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
FungusMan said: Im gonna get shot down on this one (as usual), but I havent used my pc in months. In fact, Ive got my non-pc wbs tek down to a one hour boil after a 48 hour soak. I add about 10% verm to it also. No contams as yet, and have done over 20 jars like this, so I wouldnt call it luck. I have GREAT respect for Pris, but some people get stuck in theyre ways.
I remember you mentioning that you did fractional sterilization awhile back with success. Looks like you perfected your own method, huh? Another example of how popular opinion DOES NOT = rule of thumb.
You should type up a neat looking tek with a bunch of pics for all the naysayers. You can include some more of those boob/shroom pics too! If you can prove this works and get a few people to try it, maybe people will quit telling me I have to soak WBS for 48 hours to kill the endospores WITH a PC. Damn that Agar!
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Quick WBS Prep
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hawksapprentice
Yearns to Snowboard


Registered: 06/06/03
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Loc: Oregon
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Re: WBS without a pressure cooker? [Re: 76degrees]
#5933938 - 08/05/06 08:43 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Tyvek would work just fine as a replacement for polyfill.
-------------------- "I celebrate the Earth, my home, my mother, my grave, and as long as men are Man they must, if they would preserve the integrated being, do the same---[and preserve]--this rank casual hungry smelly sweaty lusting transitory body, my oozy pulpy liquid-bag-swollen body, bones, blood, hair glands, my bejeweled sex; I love and celebrate it all. never to let men forget that they are animals as much as gods---that is one thing I shall say." Edward Abbey
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76degrees
Apprentice

Registered: 06/08/06
Posts: 350
Loc: Middle Earth
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
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Thx hawkspparentice. And I was wondering, I heard that if the grain touches the tyvek/filter contamns can take hold. So, what's the best way to attach the filter? Should I put it on over or under the lid? I would suppose over. But i've heard of several different ways to do it. SOme people use coffee filters too. What dp you think is the best method?
-------------------- The world is changed. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air. Much that once was is lost, for none now live who remember it.
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FooMan



Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 8,957
Loc: Earth
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Re: WBS without a pressure cooker? [Re: 76degrees]
#5933992 - 08/05/06 09:15 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Coffee filters are used in place of foil to cover the top of the jars during PC'ing, NOT as an actual filter. You can put the Tyvek under, over or both. The main thing is that it stays in place so that it can filter.
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Quick WBS Prep
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Rahz
Alive Again


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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>>>>This "crushed corn cob" you speak of...is it the same as the corn cob slurry? And if so, how in hell do you keep it from contaminating?
It's the same cob, but I don't use the slurry tek. 24hr soak activates endospores, 1 hour boil (submerged in water) kills them, 1/2 hour boil in the jar kills anything that entered during the transfer. The difference between cob and seed is that the cob is porus, and the soak/boil easily gets to the center of the kernels.
2nd generation spawn: soak the cob 24 hours, boil for 1-1.5 hours, strain, cool, mix in spawn. I use a 1:3 or 1:4 spawn ratio which turns a quart of spawn into a gallon... 5 quarts into 5 gallons... etc. Takes about a week to colonize, never had a contam with this process. When I first discovered this technique I ended up with so much spawn that it was just sitting around in mycobags. I wrote a tek somewhere, but it's pretty simple really.
Rahz
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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FungusMan
I81U812



Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 3,112
Loc: Everywhere
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Re: WBS without a pressure cooker? [Re: FooMan]
#5936239 - 08/06/06 05:33 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
FooManShroom said:
Quote:
FungusMan said: Im gonna get shot down on this one (as usual), but I havent used my pc in months. In fact, Ive got my non-pc wbs tek down to a one hour boil after a 48 hour soak. I add about 10% verm to it also. No contams as yet, and have done over 20 jars like this, so I wouldnt call it luck. I have GREAT respect for Pris, but some people get stuck in theyre ways.
I remember you mentioning that you did fractional sterilization awhile back with success. Looks like you perfected your own method, huh? Another example of how popular opinion DOES NOT = rule of thumb.
You should type up a neat looking tek with a bunch of pics for all the naysayers. You can include some more of those boob/shroom pics too! If you can prove this works and get a few people to try it, maybe people will quit telling me I have to soak WBS for 48 hours to kill the endospores WITH a PC. Damn that Agar!
Sounds like a plan to me Just remember though, my cam sux,lol. But next time I do a batch, Ill try to remember to take pics for it, as simple as it is.
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76degrees
Apprentice

Registered: 06/08/06
Posts: 350
Loc: Middle Earth
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
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Re: WBS without a pressure cooker? [Re: FungusMan]
#5936840 - 08/06/06 12:21 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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I just knocked up 4 WBS's in old spaghetti jars using fractional sterilzation method. I'll let you all know how it turns out. *crosses fingers*
-------------------- The world is changed. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air. Much that once was is lost, for none now live who remember it.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: WBS without a pressure cooker? [Re: FooMan]
#5936853 - 08/06/06 12:24 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
FooManShroom said: Coffee filters are used in place of foil to cover the top of the jars during PC'ing
I've always viewed them as more of a dust cover than anything else, they're paper and PCing them without a foil cover will just get them wet
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FooMan



Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 8,957
Loc: Earth
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Re: WBS without a pressure cooker? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#5945466 - 08/08/06 07:54 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
FooManShroom said: Coffee filters are used in place of foil to cover the top of the jars during PC'ing
I've always viewed them as more of a dust cover than anything else, they're paper and PCing them without a foil cover will just get them wet
They do get wet, but the moisture on them quickly evaporates after being removed from the PC whereas a foil lid causes water to condense below it. Once removed from the PC, both foil and coffee filters act as dust covers. The difference is that coffee filter allows the jars to breathe along with keeping the dust off the actual filter. Kind of like a pre filter on a laminar flow hood.
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Quick WBS Prep
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