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Shop: Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Offlinerelativexistance
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Re: the heat [Re: Microcosmatrix]
    #5923757 - 08/01/06 11:26 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

there def is nothing wrong with having goods, its the staple of our society right now. im just saying you are a consumer.

con·sum·er ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kn-smr)
n.
One that consumes, especially one that acquires goods or services for direct use or ownership rather than for resale or use in production and manufacturing.
A heterotrophic organism that ingests other organisms or organic matter in a food chain.

there is no ethics or morals in the definition of a consumer as some may try and associate with.


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OfflineMXNR
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Re: the heat [Re: Microcosmatrix]
    #5923762 - 08/01/06 11:27 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Microcosmatrix said:
Then in an absolutist sense, the one that made the actual harm made the harm. Sometimes we have no way of knowing what harm was caused in order to bring us even the most basic and essential of products. That is a symptom of being a part of "modern society".




I totally agree. And this means that the very mode in which we are living (in the numbers that we are) on this earth cannot help but be terribly impersonal and destructive. At least, the way we're doing things right now.


--------------------
Master: Everyday change your clothes and eat your food and you will become enlightened.

Pupil: Master, I do not understand...

Master: If you don't understand, eat your food and change your clothes.


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OfflineMicrocosmatrix
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Re: the heat [Re: MXNR]
    #5923774 - 08/01/06 11:32 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah, all of society is the real "consumer". Individually we're all just sad saps caught up in a whirlwind over which we have no real control.


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OfflineMicrocosmatrix
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Re: the heat [Re: relativexistance]
    #5923777 - 08/01/06 11:33 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

relativexistance said:
there def is nothing wrong with having goods, its the staple of our society right now. im just saying you are a consumer.

con·sum·er ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kn-smr)
n.
One that consumes, especially one that acquires goods or services for direct use or ownership rather than for resale or use in production and manufacturing.
A heterotrophic organism that ingests other organisms or organic matter in a food chain.

there is no ethics or morals in the definition of a consumer as some may try and associate with.




I don't consume, I re-structure molecules!


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:orly:



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OfflineMXNR
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Re: the heat [Re: Microcosmatrix]
    #5923780 - 08/01/06 11:34 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Exactly dude.

We're like gears in a machine, except that the machine can easily replace our function, but we NEED the machine.

But yeah, the problem is clearly the METHOD in which we are living, so...the cure may rest in finding a new METHOD of living on the earth.


--------------------
Master: Everyday change your clothes and eat your food and you will become enlightened.

Pupil: Master, I do not understand...

Master: If you don't understand, eat your food and change your clothes.


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OfflineMicrocosmatrix
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Re: the heat [Re: MXNR]
    #5923791 - 08/01/06 11:37 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Changing to renewable energies, and an abandonment of nuclear everything would be a great start.


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:orly:



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Offlinerelativexistance
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Re: the heat [Re: MXNR]
    #5923792 - 08/01/06 11:37 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

we still need others to produce things we arent specialized in though


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OfflineMicrocosmatrix
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Re: the heat [Re: relativexistance]
    #5923798 - 08/01/06 11:39 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

We could just get rid of the industrial society shit and go back to nature.

It would be cool if we just ended up back in nature in 2012.


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OfflineMXNR
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Re: the heat [Re: relativexistance]
    #5923801 - 08/01/06 11:39 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Right. Well, maybe people can focus on doing things for themselves or on a community level, like a community garden, and we can attempt to minimize "special manufacured" items and how much we use them.

Think Globally, act locally.


--------------------
Master: Everyday change your clothes and eat your food and you will become enlightened.

Pupil: Master, I do not understand...

Master: If you don't understand, eat your food and change your clothes.


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Offlinerelativexistance
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Re: the heat [Re: Microcosmatrix]
    #5923830 - 08/01/06 11:48 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

how is our world not natural though? we were born from the earth, we build our world, we are like ants, are ant hills not natural?


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OfflineMicrocosmatrix
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Re: the heat [Re: relativexistance]
    #5923843 - 08/01/06 11:50 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

It's because mankind has imagination to build all of this shit. Ants just pile up dirt, they don't "envision" what it's gonna look like when it's done.


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OfflineMXNR
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Re: the heat [Re: Microcosmatrix]
    #5923854 - 08/01/06 11:54 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah,

humans are the only animals* that can construct things based on intelligence rather than instinct. Like, when a bee builds a honeycomb, it has no idea what it's doing. It just reacts instinctively, like when you are pulling your hand off a stove.

But, MATRIX, are you saying that what we do isn't natural because we can "think" about it? I've never thought about it like that. But that would seem to imply that we and our thoughts are alien or separate from nature. Are they?



*Many of the greater apes and a few clever birds are able to construct tools on the fly. This implies a clear presence of mind. However, these are the exceptions in the animal kingdom. While birds, apes, and birds INVENT TOOLS, most other animals simply react instinctively and partake in repetitive, unconscious movements that result in a structure or hill. Also, since man is the only animal to split atoms and fly to the moon, we will say that his tool making ability is in a class all its own. I was very high when I wrote this.


--------------------
Master: Everyday change your clothes and eat your food and you will become enlightened.

Pupil: Master, I do not understand...

Master: If you don't understand, eat your food and change your clothes.


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OfflineMicrocosmatrix
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Re: the heat [Re: MXNR]
    #5923862 - 08/01/06 11:57 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

We're set apart from nature and the rest of the animal kingdom due to our god-like abilities to create, yes.

And now can we keep a planet alive with all of this creativity?


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OfflineMXNR
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Re: the heat [Re: Microcosmatrix]
    #5923876 - 08/02/06 12:02 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I agree. So, you think that we are such a threat to the natural order because we have such freedom of thought? I mean, because we can conceive of so many possibilities/configurations, aren't we bound as animals to invent some of the most terrible things along with some of the most beautiful? But, perhaps some of those terrible things are bad enough to threaten the health of the planet as a whole? Is our only hope that we can conceive of some equally powerful curative technologies that will restore the balance? Are we capable of this? Or will we all be sitting on our ass watching American Idol when it all falls down or simply becomes too unbearable.

Wow, I hadn't read your post when i wrote this, but we basically said the same thing.


--------------------
Master: Everyday change your clothes and eat your food and you will become enlightened.

Pupil: Master, I do not understand...

Master: If you don't understand, eat your food and change your clothes.


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Offlinerelativexistance
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Re: the heat [Re: Microcosmatrix]
    #5923877 - 08/02/06 12:02 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

how do you know they cant envision it? thats impossible to tell at least by our standards today. so you are implying that there is genetic knowledge then, since ant instinctively know to construct their structures. even so if they know how to construct and whatnot they still have to communicate when they are formed to assimilate into the already preexisting system. they cant simply be formed with pre-cognizance of the structure of the said hive whatever, or i guess you could say they could if knowledge can be genetically transferred. thats kindof weird im still going with communication and intelligence.


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OfflineMXNR
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Re: the heat [Re: relativexistance]
    #5923885 - 08/02/06 12:06 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Dude, it's genetic memory! Insects have it BIG TIME!

Think about it! Think about all of the amazing things an ant can do, but it has hardly any thinking capacity man (very few neurons). They are basically clockwork. Seriously.

Lower animals make much more use of genetic memory than us. An example: In bio class, if you put a fluke worm through a maze a few times, it will eventually find the path pretty quickly. But, if you then remove the worm from the maze and let it create offspring, all offspring "remember" going through the maze and are able to get through much quicker than a newly introduce worm.


--------------------
Master: Everyday change your clothes and eat your food and you will become enlightened.

Pupil: Master, I do not understand...

Master: If you don't understand, eat your food and change your clothes.


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OfflineMicrocosmatrix
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Re: the heat [Re: MXNR]
    #5923896 - 08/02/06 12:09 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Is our only hope that we can conceive of some equally powerful curative technologies that will restore the balance? Are we capable of this? Or will we all be sitting on our ass watching American Idol when it all falls down or simply becomes too unbearable.




My feeling is that mankind as a whole will not regret it's actions in time to make a difference. Historically, mankind only fixes problems after they are looming large in the viewfinders. Unfortunately, that approach will never work in regards to the health of a planet's ecosystem.

The planet will probably just sneeze us off one day.


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OfflineMXNR
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Re: the heat [Re: Microcosmatrix]
    #5923908 - 08/02/06 12:12 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

"Only when the last tree has died and
The last river has been poisoned and
The last fish has been caught,
Will we realise that
We cannot eat money"

Amen brother. You and I are 100% in agreement on this. I mean, if you just have a basic understanding of human history and also the true condition of the planet, it's easy to figure out that we're not on the right track and don't seem too concerned about it.

Too bad, we have such potential.


--------------------
Master: Everyday change your clothes and eat your food and you will become enlightened.

Pupil: Master, I do not understand...

Master: If you don't understand, eat your food and change your clothes.


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Offlinerelativexistance
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Re: the heat [Re: Microcosmatrix]
    #5923913 - 08/02/06 12:13 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

well said


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OfflineMicrocosmatrix
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Re: the heat [Re: MXNR]
    #5923929 - 08/02/06 12:18 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Too bad, we have such potential.




And yet no control. I have to believe though, that based on the very existance of things good and wholesome, that we must prevail and prevail we shall... Somehow.  :thumbup:


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