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OfflineSneezingPenis
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My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist.
    #5918747 - 07/31/06 02:45 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Now, this will be a lot of quoting, but I will give cliff notes at the end of every quoted paragraph for those of you with severe ADD/laziness.

first, we start with a little history regarding the Bush administration, and its involvement in the amazing leap of prescribed, harmful drugs to children in the last 10 years.

Quote:

A little over a year after Bush announced the formation of the NFC, on July 22, 2003, government report was released that called for redesigning the mental health systems in all 50 states. A press release previewing the report stated:

"Achieving this goal will require greater engagement and education of first line health care providers—primary care practitioners—and a greater focus on mental health care in institutions such as schools, child welfare programs, and the criminal and juvenile justice systems. The goal is integrated care that can screen, identify, and respond to problems early."

About 7 months later, on February 5, 2003, a subcommittee report was released titled, "Promoting, Preserving and Restoring Children’s Mental Heath," and stated in part:




basically here, Bush created and Organization called the New Freedom Committee (already scared?) in 2002, with the seemingly righteous goal of improving mental health standards. More and more, the bill becomes geared towards children.... still not a big deal right?

Quote:

The NFC specifically calls for all screening programs to be linked to "state-of-the-art treatments" using "specific medications for specific conditions."

The Texas Medication Algorithm Project (TMAP) is the centerpiece of the NFC’s recommendation for “specific medications.” Algorithms are lists of drugs with guidelines that medical professionals must follow when prescribing medication to patients for specific mental illnesses, and contain flow charts that illustrate step-by-step prescribing process.

The TMAP drug lists and guidelines were developed and approved in Texas while Bush was Governor, through an "expert opinion consensus" by a panel of medical professionals chosen by the pharmaceutical sponsors of the program that included Janssen Pharmaceutica, Eli Lilly, Johnson & Johnson, Astrazeneca, Pfizer, Novartis, Janssen-Ortho-McNeil, GlaxoSmithKline, Abbott, Bristol Myers Squibb, Wyeth-Ayerst and Forrest Laboratories.




So here, the NFC becomes a little more serious about psychologically screening every child. Then they state that they will use a set of prescribing guidlines set forth by a group called TMAP (Texas Medication Algorithm Project). TMAP was comprised of nothing more than representatives of the major Pharmaceutical companies. So the people who were setting the standards for prescribing children drugs, were the very people making these drugs.... CONFLICT OF INTEREST? read on.....

Quote:

Once approved, TMAP guaranteed an avalanche of sales for Big Pharma in Texas, because medical professionals were required to follow the TMAP guidelines with all patients in state institutions, such as mental hospitals and prisons, and when prescribing drugs to children in foster care or juvenile justice programs, and for all patients covered by government funded health care programs.

The NFC recommends TMAP as the model program for “specific medications” to be used in all 50 states. The “specific medications” are the most expensive drugs on the market and include drugs known as selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors antidepressants (SSRIs), like Paxil, Prozac, Zoloft, and Effexor, and the atypical antipsychotics, that include Zyprexa, Risperdal, Geodon, Seroquel, Clozaril, and Abilify.

Other “specific medications” include the ADHD drugs, fondly known as “speed” to street addicts, such as Adderall, Dexedrine, Concerta, Ritalin and Strattera, and a garden variety of “downers,” like Valium, Xanax, Librium and sleeping pills.




So, once TMAP was approved, it was required to be followed by all Texas institutions, this includes state health care, juvenile institutions, prisons and psych wards.
Amazingly, these mandatory guidelines (oxymoron a bit?) were all the new drugs that all the companies represented in TMAP sold, which just so happens to be the most expensive drugs out there, even though generic substitutes would have been adequate. So basically, the state and now federal government, are shelling out our tax dollars for the most expensive designer drugs available, for people on medicare and state institutions. read on, it gets way better...


Quote:

In 2004, a report by the advocacy group, Public Citizen, listed 21 drug industry and HMO executives or lobbyists among Bush’s Rangers and Pioneers – titles given only to those people who have raised at least $200,000 or $100,000, respectively, for one of his presidential campaigns.

The list includes 5 executives from drug companies, 6 officials from HMOs, the CEO of a pharmacy services company, the head of a direct-mail pharmacy, and 8 lobbyists who represent drug companies and HMOs at the time.

Eli Lilly, a manufacturer of many of the “specific medications” chosen for the lists, has multiple ties to the Bush family dating back decades. Before becoming President Reagan’s Vice President, the first President Bush was a member of Lilly’s board of directors and the current President Bush appointed Lilly CEO, Sidney Taurel, to the Homeland Security Council.

In the year 2000, eighty-two percent of Lilly's $1.6 million in political contributions went to Bush and the Republican Party.

Another industry big-wig, retired Bristol-Myers Squibb Vice-Chairman, Bruce Gelb, was a Bush Pioneer who also had longstanding ties to the Bush family. Gelb was appointed chief of the US Information Agency, and ambassador to Belgium, by the first President Bush.

Before the 2000 election, Bristol-Myers executives reportedly were pressured to make maximum donations to the Bush campaign and reluctant donors were warned that CEO, Charles Heimbold Jr, whom Bush later named ambassador to Sweden, would be informed if they failed to give, according a September 5, 2003 New York Times article.

Pfizer CEO, Hank McKinnell, was a 2004 Bush Ranger and until 2003, served as chairman of the board of Pharmaceutical Research & Manufacturers of America, the industry’s gigantic trade group, until Republican lawmaker, Billy Tauzin, quit Congress and took over the position that came with a multi-million dollar package in combined salary and perks.




here it shows the political and financial ties both President Bush's have had with the pharm corps: Bush Sr. used to work for Eli Lilly, a pharm corp that makes many of the drugs listed on TMAP, who then later appointed the CEO of Eli Lilly to the Homeland Security Council.
Other big-wigs from pharm corporations were given ambassador positions and such.


Quote:

In 2004, Illinois became the first state to implement mental health screening programs. Its plan calls for both children and adults to be screened during their routine physical exams. To that end, the state legislature passed the Illinois Children's Mental Health Act (ICMHP), which is expected to become a model for other states.

The final report by the ICMHP Task Force calls for a comprehensive, coordinated children’s mental health system comprised of prevention, early intervention, and treatment for children ages 0-18, along with a statewide data-reporting system to track information on each person.

It requires social-emotional development screens with all mandated school exams (K, 4th, and 9th), and says to: “Start early, beginning prenatally and at birth, and continue throughout adolescence, including efforts to support adolescents in making the transition to young adulthood,” and includes a plan to screen all pregnant women




Here, it talks about how the government wishes to psychologically screen children 0-18 (yes 0, but it gets even better!). They even wish to start screening pregnant women, for PRE-NATAL screening of social-emotional disorders. Do you think that we are being geared towards a Brave New World here?
But Psilocyberin, what about psychotherapy?


Quote:

And studies reveal that talk therapy is a thing of the past because pushing pills is by far more profitable. A 2003 study by the American Psychiatric Association, on "financial disincentives" for psychotherapy, found doctors could earn about $263 an hour for doing three 15-minute "medication management" sessions, verses about $156 for a single 45- to 50-minute therapy session. Thus, conducting therapy verses medication management would represents an hourly pay cut of 41%, the APA study said.




wow, so even the AMA has stated that pill pushing is far more financially stimulating for "doctors" than actual psychotherapy. Keep in mind that much of the mental medication is subsidized by the government, while psychotherapy is rarely ever subsidized... so our own government, is even pushing for the medication, making therapy a "disincentive".

Quote:

One of the more recent screening programs that has caught the attention of anti-drugging activists, is a survey called "Signs of Suicide” (SOS), which is being touted as a self-assessment screening tool and is provided free online on the internet.

This particular psychiatric screening program claims it is being promoted as an effort to reduce suicides, alcoholism, depression and eating disorders, to be used in high schools, colleges, the workplace, and the military.

SOS claims it is the creation of the "nonprofit" Massachusetts-based corporation, Screening for Mental Health, Inc (SMH). However, as it turns out, the development of the firm’s screening programs, was funded with millions of dollars from Big Pharma.

A picture taken at the company during an event in honor of, "National Depression Screening Day," (whatever that is), on October 18, 2001, shows Eli Lilly presenting SMH with a check for $500,000.

But Lilly’s half-million dollar grant was just the tip of the iceberg. SMH has also received millions of dollars in grants from other drug giants including Pfizer, Solvay, Abbott Labs, Wyeth, Forest Pharmaceuticals, the Robert Johnson Foundation, AstaZeneca and GlaxoSmithKline.

All total, the tax records show that Lilly poured $2,157,925 into SMH between 2001 and 2004, and for the year 2004 alone, in addition to Lilly’s $600,000, Pfizer gave SMH $125,000, Wyeth ponied up $100,000, and Forest Labs gave $153,000




So a new screening process was developed, called SOS, for suicide prevention, which claims to be a non-profit organization. It is a personal online survey which has been implemented and pushed in the military, schools, colleges and workplaces.
Upon financial inspection, SOS is completely funded by pharm corporations, and is obviously a tax front to pour money into an institution created by them which aggressivly maintains their agenda of pushing as many expensive, useless drugs onto Americans.


Quote:

These “free” online mental health screening programs are also being promoted in colleges all across the country. Brian Hokanson is a college student in Minnesota who wrote a commentary describing his experience with an online survey.

At the beginning of last fall’s semester, Brian noticed fliers in his residence hall that were encouraging students to take a free online screening test for depression.

Brian says he soon found out that any combination of answers on the screening resulted in a recommendation to see a doctor. The first section of the test, he says, listed negative behaviors such as “feeling bad about yourself” and “feeling tired or having little energy.”

For each statement checked, Brian was instructed to chose how often the statement applied to him in the previous two weeks, ranging from “not at all” to “nearly every day.”

In the second part of the test, the student is asked to rate how difficult each of the behaviors checked has made it to function in daily life, ranging from “not difficult at all” to “extremely difficult.”

Brian says he decided to "test the test," and chose “not at all” for all of the behaviors except for “poor appetite or overeating,” and he said that statement applied to him for “several days.” On the second section, he stated that the problem made it “not difficult at all” for him to function in daily life.

Upon clicking on the results, Brian was told: “Your screening results are consistent with minimal depression … You are advised to see your doctor or a mental health professional for a complete evaluation as soon as possible.”

As for the inventor of this particular screening tool, Brian reports that the fine print at the bottom of the page of the survey reads: “Copyright 1999 Pfizer, Inc.”




so if you were to take this SOS test, no matter what your answers were, you would be diagnosed with atleast mild depression, and advised to get on an SSRI. The test was created by Pfizer..... kind of odd, right? I mean, here is a pharmaceutical corporation claiming that EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN THE US HAS DEPRESSION AND NEEDS MEDICATION!

Quote:

The NFC also recommends screening for all pregnant women that will predictably lead to the use of SSRIs, even though a study as far back as the February 2, 2004, American Journal of Pediatrics, said that pregnant women who use SSRIs "to combat depression could be damaging the brains of their unborn babies."

According to the study, direct evidence of a link between fetal exposure and disrupted neurological development was apparent in a study of American mothers and their infants. "Abnormal sleeping patterns, heart rhythms and levels of alertness," the study found, "were linked by researchers to drugs called selective-serotonin re-uptake inhibitors (SSRIs)."

The study leader, Philip Zeskind, a psychologist and research professor of pediatrics at the University of North Carolina, noted that SSRIs disrupt the neurological systems of children, and said "this is more than just a possibility, we're talking about hundreds of thousands of babies being exposed to these drugs during pregnancy."

"These babies are bathed in serotonin during a key period of their development and we really don't know what it's doing to them or what the long-term effects might be," he advised. The Professor warned that "these drugs are being given away like smarties, and this is a big problem."




The NFC, remember them?, reccommends that pregnant women take the SOS test, or similar screening, which amazingly ends up in the reccommendation of getting on an SSRI, even though the APA has published studies that found SSRI's to be extremely harmful to unborn children. Yet this goes on to this day.
They also try to get you when you are old, they aren't going for one age group, they are going for EVERYBODY. Walk into any nursing home and see what percentage of elderly people are on SSRI's.


Quote:

In a study published in the June 13, 2005, Archives of Internal Medicine, that examined the quality of antipsychotic prescriptions for nearly 2.5 million Medicaid patients in nursing homes, “over half (58.2%),” received antipsychotics that exceeded the maximum recommended dosage or received duplicate therapy or had inappropriate indications for the drugs to begin with.

The study found that more than 200,000 nursing home residents received antipsychotic therapy with “no appropriate indications for use.” In October 2005, the Journal of the American Medical Association, published a meta-analysis of 15 randomized trials of more than 5,000 elderly patients treated with atypicals that found patients taking the drugs had a 54% increased chance of dying within 3 months, compared with patients taking a placebo.




Quote:

In fact, so many people are being prescribed these expensive drugs that the TMAP part of the marketing scheme is coming apart at the seams due to pure and simple greed. State lawmakers say that the costs incurred due to the over-prescribing of the drugs are bankrupting state Medicaid programs and they have to stop the practice of over-prescribing to keep from going broke.

According to the July 27, 2005, Wall Street Journal, antidepressants and antipsychotics are the third and fourth biggest classes of drugs in the US after cholesterol and heartburn medicines, with sales of $20.7 billion in 2004, with much "of that cost is borne by government health-care plans," the journal said.

The prices per pill for these drugs are themselves insane. For example, in South Carolina, Zyprexa is the most expensive atypical covered by Medicaid, and according to James Assey, a pharmacist with the South Carolina Department of Health and Human Services, a one-month supply pills costs Medicaid over $700.




so now, TMAP is having to reverse this juggernaut it created, and due to rampant overprescribing, it has financially depleted almost every single state healthcare program. Zyprexa cost 700$ for one months prescription in South Carolina, which was covered by medicare. Ever heard of "off-label use"? im about to get to that....

Quote:

Big Pharma is making a ton of money off selling these drugs off-label for kids. A report in the April 24, 2005, Columbus Dispatch, found that 40,000 children aged 6-18 who were covered by Medicaid were prescribed psychotropic drugs: 31% of the children were in foster care, and 22% were in juvenile detention. Medicaid spent $65.5 million for drugs used primarily as "chemical restraints," according to Pyle, P, “Drugged into Submission.”

According to FDA estimates, 11 million antidepressant prescriptions were written in 2003 for under 19-year-olds, representing a 27% increase in 3 years.

The sale of ADHD drugs, also skyrocked in 2003. In 5 to 9-year-old children their use increased 85%, and in preschoolers usage was up 49%, according to Medco Health Solution’s, 2004 Drug Trend Symposium. Overall, sales of psychiatric drugs totaled $26.7 billion in 2004, according to NDC Health Corp, a Georgia-based health information firm.




preschoolers usage of psychiatric drugs (mostly amphetamines and SSRI's) is up 49%.

Do, I really need to go on? wake the fuck up people! everytime I come to this forum, i see a new thread about someone self-diagnosing themselves with ADHD and Depression. All of this has gone on without one shred of definitive evidence or study that can prove mental illness (or whatever the APA and big Pharma deem to be so) is CAUSED by chemical imbalances in the brain!
Do you not see the trend? the agenda of these souless bastards who care not one bit about your health or wellbeing? In the last 10 years, psychotropic drug advertising has gone from nonexistence to being about every third commercial.
I have no self-serving agenda in all of this. I truly care about this topic, and anyone who knows my posts, love it or hate it, knows that I have put many hours of selfless effort into making the shroomery more aware about the dangers and misconceptions regarding psychiatry and its drugs.

All I want is for people to try, just for a few minutes, to take an alternative perspective regarding this epedimic and stop becoming the medium for which it thrives on, and start becoming a retarding force against its death grip it has on America's people.


source: http://www.sierratimes.com/06/07/10/75_8_41_234_97438.htm


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OfflineThe_Hobbit
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5919008 - 07/31/06 04:01 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Good post.

Atleast some people here will know what's up with these meds. I always knew that something was wrong when people start to substitute a healthy lifestyle, including exercise, with a magical pill.

The sad thing to me is that many people just don't care to take an active approach at solving their problems with focusing and energy (both related, ofcourse). It is a regular thing for someone to watch 10-30 hours of TV a week rather than taking that time to meditate on things or do some intense exercise. There is something seriously wrong when even kids are having these problems.


--------------------
Smoking my hobbit leaf...
Please keep in mind that I am just a human being. Please read my posts carefully and interpret their meaning for yourself.


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Offlineleery11
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5919019 - 07/31/06 04:05 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

concerning
"Other “specific medications” include the ADHD drugs, fondly known as “speed” to street addicts, such as Adderall, Dexedrine, Concerta, Ritalin and Strattera, and a garden variety of “downers,” like Valium, Xanax, Librium and sleeping pills."

i don't know if that's fair though, speed is far more potent and recreational than the ADD drugs.

those pills are indeed a fucking joke though. Oh my, you are slightly irritable and have had problems sleeping a few nights a week? Well, let's try some soma... err umm... I mean zoloft......


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


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OfflineZombieJesus
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: leery11]
    #5919614 - 07/31/06 07:22 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

In my personal opinion, Adderall is stronger and much longer lasting than street amphetamines. I have absolutely no idea why anyone would prescribe Adderall to their children. The comedown is harsh, leaving you with extreme dysphoria, it is highly addictive, and is very taxing on the body.


As far as Zoloft is concerned, it has been shown in many clinical trials that St. John's Wort is equally, if not more, effective than antidepressants currently on the market for relieving symptoms of mild to moderate depression. Furthermore, the side effect profile is much more attractive in comparison. Also, it costs about a 1/10th as much.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=19939
http://www.vanderbilt.edu/AnS/psychology/health_psychology/StJohn.htm
http://www.vitacost.com/science/medstudies.cfm?litid=30


--------------------
This is an exercise in narcissistic paranoia.


Edited by ZombieJesus (07/31/06 07:29 PM)


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InvisibleZippoZM
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: ZombieJesus]
    #5919794 - 07/31/06 08:18 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

you want a war on drugs? lets stop pharmacutical distribution nation wide :smile:

but seeing how people get their stuff about a month at a time, even a several day long boycott would not work......


hot damn, they ave us wired.


--------------------
PEACE

:mushroom2:zippoz:mushroom2:



"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."


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Offlinebarfightlard
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5920448 - 07/31/06 11:24 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I'm going with the simplest answer. Because they live in America....


--------------------

"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: SneezingPenis] * 1
    #5921160 - 08/01/06 06:20 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I have witnessed a real hyperactive child and know that they exist. A friend of the family adopted unwanted children. In this case, the child had been a "crack baby" that had been abandoned by his mother (along with his sister. Both were adopted together). He was the same age as my younger brother and they became friends.

I watched the kid one day run around a tree in the backyard hitting it with a wiffle ball bat for more than two hours, non-stop. This sort of behavior would only happen when he did not take medication (speed). It was night and day between when he was on medication and not. A true Dr.Jeckle & Mr. Hyde.

This being said, I think most of the ADD diagnosis are incorrect with parents using medication and television to raise their children. However, just because 99+% of the cases are "bogus", that doesn't mean the disease doesn't exist.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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Offlinetrunksan
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: Seuss] * 1
    #5921185 - 08/01/06 06:59 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

If you look at it from a business prespective. The companies are simply using marketing tactics to promote their products. The problem of course is on the process they fuck up people's lives.

My uncle is a doctor and he gets free trips all over Europe and gifts from pharmaceuticals because he prescribes a lot of them.

However, I believe it all boils down to the western world's coulture. We'd rather pay for the easy solution rather then work hard for the right one.


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Offlineleery11
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Registered: 06/24/05
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: trunksan]
    #5921400 - 08/01/06 10:22 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

trunksan said:
If you look at it from a business prespective. The companies are simply using marketing tactics to promote their products. The problem of course is on the process they fuck up people's lives.



and much like only "ugly" people get plastic surgery (in fact, normal looking girls who think they are ugly, as the truely ugly wouldn't care and would have some sense of pride if you see what i think i mean)

normal people become convinced that they are "depressed" or have ADD.

It's pretty evil and all ecompassing. The media made us think we are so so so so ugly that eventually they realized they could use this conditioned ugliness to not only sell beauty products, but advanced medical procedures, botoxes, snips and cuts, nose jobs, etc.

well, the media also detuned our ability to pay attention to invidiual tasks (because the media is constantly changing and being interupted with fast paced commercials) that they decided they could convince you that not being able to pay attention is a problem that warrants giving them more money.
TV got your brain zonked out? Just take a ritalin and you'll be right as rain.

and likewise, this society is responsible for our "depression" and yet they exploit this depression to push products.

because depressoin in particular is a symptom of our society, nothing our society does can fix it. you have to go into counterculture. be it psychedelic therapy, training in meditation / martial arts / yoga / etc, going on a nature retreat, etc.

of course, this nation could capitalize on psychedelic treatment and exploit meditation too...... but i'm not sure how they could rape them of substance.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


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InvisibleStroFun
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: leery11]
    #5921416 - 08/01/06 10:33 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

leery11 said:
concerning
"Other “specific medications” include the ADHD drugs, fondly known as “speed” to street addicts, such as Adderall, Dexedrine, Concerta, Ritalin and Strattera, and a garden variety of “downers,” like Valium, Xanax, Librium and sleeping pills."

i don't know if that's fair though, speed is far more potent and recreational than the ADD drugs.

those pills are indeed a fucking joke though. Oh my, you are slightly irritable and have had problems sleeping a few nights a week? Well, let's try some soma... err umm... I mean zoloft......



In my area ADHD meds are way more prevalent in high schookids than speed. Easier to get cheap and it lasts pretty long. Also a good appetite supressant. But i have adhd so its no use to me ha ha

My children will never be on medicine unless they tell me it helps them noticeably and i will try herbal remedies before i pay 20 bucks a pill or whatever for some bullshit like this.
I was on antidepressants and i felt no difference while on them...


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OfflineViveka
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: ZombieJesus]
    #5922082 - 08/01/06 02:45 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

I have absolutely no idea why anyone would prescribe Adderall to their children.


Because it's not parents but doctors who prescribe the Adderall and only doctors can make the right decision when it comes to any issue dealing with health or psychology. Or at least this is what most people have been taught. Some people experience relief from their afflictions by simply visiting the doctor. They have been trained that going to the doctor and doig what he/she suggest is what one must do in order to be healthy and happy, so just being in the waiting room is therapeutic for a lot of people.

Great post psilo.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: StroFun]
    #5922679 - 08/01/06 06:19 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

StroFun said:
In my area ADHD meds are way more prevalent in high schookids than speed.




ADHD drugs are speed. They are all the same drug with different names. It is all a form of amphetamine salts.


There is no such thing as ADD/ADHD, it solely exists as a label of normal human actions. Children run around trees and hit them with whiffle bats, children are hyperactive (most often)... especially when given a diet that consists mainly of sugar. Its like rubbing dirt and oil into your face and wondering why you are getting pimples!
"My little johnny must have ADHD, after his dinner of gummy bears and cola, he just bounces off the walls...."

Depression, ADD, bi-polar, and anxiety were so perfect for the American culture, because instead of owning up to laziness, disinterest, lethargy, fear of social interaction, impatience and mood swings, we decided to give them new names which implied that they were a genetic or physiological manifestation.

there is not one shred of proof that these "diseases" exist, all we have done is lump a group of "symptoms" which are merely the ebb and flow of life and contributed them to an imaginary illness.

We have been conditioned to believe that happiness is owed to us, and that happiness should be a constant state, and any second in which we aren't loving our life, there is something wrong with us. Happiness isn't a default position after birth, happiness can only be attained by personal growth and understanding.

ADD is nothing more than another name for disinterest. "I cant stay focused in my geography class"... what a fucking surprise! most people find geography boring, in fact, most school subjects are boring, which is why it is primarily mandatory, and not voluntary.
Give me any person who is diagnosed with ADD and I can show you a person with the most determination, focus and interest if given the proper subject. We have placed so much emphasis on playing this game we call "civilized society" that any time a child refuses to leave their own abstract world and begin to let themselves become conditioned to be the next drone in our pointless society, we claim they are diseased.

XTC was first created and marketed as a drug to help marriage counseling. Think it worked? shit yeah it did, couples were fascinated and in so much love with their partner. I always wonder why they never called infidelity or falling out of love a disease, because they treated it as one, with drugs.

Amphetamines were first created and marketed for nazi soldiers, created by Merck, to keep soldiers awake longer and resist fatigue. once the war was over, there was no market for it, until they pinned it as a cure for asthma, headaches, and weight problems. Merck has marketed the same drug as a cure for almost everything, and has run out of maladies, so they began making up new diseases to "cure".

Psychiatry and psychology took a completely wrong turn when they decided that the mind and the brain were the same thing, and that the analytical mind was a tangible and testable source.

i urge all of you to look at the history of the drugs and especially the makers of these drugs. You will be shocked at the semi-genocide they have caused and continue to cause for $$$.

wake the fuck up people. you aren't sick, society is.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5922742 - 08/01/06 06:34 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

psilocyberin said:
wake the fuck up people. you aren't sick, society is.



Maybe so, but until society gets better, I'd rather do what I can to adjust to that society. I was diagnosed with ADHD, and whether or not that diagnosis was legitimate, I do think I would've never gotten through high school or college if not for the dexedrine my doctor prescribed.


--------------------


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5922768 - 08/01/06 06:39 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

The fruits of Scientology...

Depression, ADD, bi-polar, and anxiety were so perfect for the American culture, because instead of owning up to laziness, disinterest, lethargy, fear of social interaction, impatience and mood swings, we decided to give them new names which implied that they were a genetic or physiological manifestation.

Yet, some how, all these imaginary diseases have corresponding physical brain states that are recognized internationally.

here is not one shred of proof that these "diseases" exist, all we have done is lump a group of "symptoms" which are merely the ebb and flow of life and contributed them to an imaginary illness.

Do you not accept scientific evidence as "proof" or do you believe there is a conspiracy of electroencephalographs?


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5922832 - 08/01/06 06:59 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

MushmanTheManic said:

here is not one shred of proof that these "diseases" exist, all we have done is lump a group of "symptoms" which are merely the ebb and flow of life and contributed them to an imaginary illness.

Do you not accept scientific evidence as "proof" or do you believe there is a conspiracy of electroencephalographs?




Care to show me 1 scientific study which proves that the imbalance of brain chemicals is a CAUSE of mood disorders?

Also, no one has brought up Scientology here, there is no need for ad hominems or personal attacks. Try attacking the argument, not the presenter of the argument.
I have made so many threads regarding this, yet the only response you all can say is "$cientology", even though I just gave sources and proof that the only thing that should have $$$ on it is P$ychiatry.

Also, EEG's only show brain activity, not chemical composition. Try educating yourself on atleast one position before you bash or support.


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Invisiblebadchad
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Posts: 13,372
Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: SneezingPenis] * 1
    #5922868 - 08/01/06 07:12 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Your posting on a site dedicated to discussion and analysis of mushrooms and other drugs.

And you still maintain that chemicals have absolutely nothing to do with our thoughts, feelings, emotions, etc.?


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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OfflineThe_Hobbit
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: Silversoul]
    #5922887 - 08/01/06 07:23 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Quote:

psilocyberin said:
wake the fuck up people. you aren't sick, society is.



Maybe so, but until society gets better, I'd rather do what I can to adjust to that society. I was diagnosed with ADHD, and whether or not that diagnosis was legitimate, I do think I would've never gotten through high school or college if not for the dexedrine my doctor prescribed.



I don't doubt that they made it easier for you to focus. So would smoking meth before you did your homework.


--------------------
Smoking my hobbit leaf...
Please keep in mind that I am just a human being. Please read my posts carefully and interpret their meaning for yourself.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: badchad]
    #5922889 - 08/01/06 07:23 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

i never said they don't have anything to do with emotions or thoughts, but do you really believe that our personality, our being, our character is merely the product of chemical interactions?

Of course drugs have an effect for limited periods of time upon our emotions and thoughts..... everything has an effect upon our emotions and thoughts: the television, the internet, politics, a butterfly landing on your finger, a gruesome car wreck. Interaction with any part of reality has a profound effect upon our thoughts and emotions.
True happiness, or being truly content isnt a chemical interaction, it is a state of mind and perception that is only attained through personal means, not some drug.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5922922 - 08/01/06 07:37 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

i would like to add that I am all for the recreational and spiritual use of drugs. I take mushrooms not because i think something needs to be fixed in my life, but to have a good time.

There is no difference between a crackhead, or a speed addict, and someone who takes speed under the guise of "prescription use". both are using the drug to avoid the real problems in their life, to escape the reality of their situation, to band-aid their problems away. Addiction is merely the state of needing instant gratification, the medium of that instant gratification is the drug. When you take speed to become more focused you are entering into a state of instant gratification.


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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5922941 - 08/01/06 07:43 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

psilocyberin said:
i never said they don't have anything to do with emotions or thoughts, but do you really believe that our personality, our being, our character is merely the product of chemical interactions?




I honestly don't know, however, it certainly is a possibility.

Quote:

psilocyberin said:Of course drugs have an effect for limited periods of time upon our emotions and thoughts..... everything has an effect upon our emotions and thoughts: the television, the internet, politics, a butterfly landing on your finger, a gruesome car wreck. Interaction with any part of reality has a profound effect upon our thoughts and emotions.




agreed, but they could be producing these effects via changes in neurotransmitters, etc.

Quote:

psilocyberin said:True happiness, or being truly content isnt a chemical interaction, it is a state of mind and perception that is only attained through personal means, not some drug.




Theoretically, though, if we could give enough of a drug, and (importantly) block tolerance, or some type of compensatory change (withdrawal) that state would persist indefinetly. This indicates the result effects, or "high" of a drug, and also the negative consequences have some sort of "mechanistic" basis.

But I digress, I do largely argee with your OP, although I often ask myself: "is there a better alternative?". In a perfect world, the child:teacher ration would be 5:1. Schools would have an abundance of specially trained teachers trained in how to deal with "problem children". Parents would all be actively involved in their kids lives and drugs wouldn't be needed. Given the reality of the situation, however, sedating a child into conformity, (and a state where he/she could achieve) may in fact be better than throwing the kid out of school.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


Edited by badchad (08/01/06 07:45 PM)


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