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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Organic Foods *The Scam*
#5922022 - 08/01/06 02:17 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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non-synthetic -allowed synthetic -allowed synthetic -alloewd synthetic -not allowed
http://www.ams.usda.gov/nop/archive/NOSBNationalListDatabase.pdf
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Microcosmatrix
Spiral staircasetechnician


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 11,293
Loc: Ythan's house
Last seen: 17 years, 1 month
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Prisoner#1]
#5922027 - 08/01/06 02:20 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Fuck pdf
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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it would hurt my pen0r, no thanks
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Microcosmatrix
Spiral staircasetechnician


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 11,293
Loc: Ythan's house
Last seen: 17 years, 1 month
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Prisoner#1]
#5922032 - 08/01/06 02:22 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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It shure would, but pdf would take 10 minutes to unzip you so I wouldn't worry.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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if yuo buy organic products, you reallt should see the number of synthetic compounds going into them, all approved, a few under review and only a few that arent allowed
now cut it out before I whack your peepee
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demiu5
humans, lol


Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 43,948
Loc: the popcorn stadium
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Prisoner#1]
#5922211 - 08/01/06 03:22 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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that's part of why I don't buy organic foods from stores yet. I'll wait till I grow my own or know someone that does.
-------------------- channel your inner Larry David
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: demiu5]
#5922223 - 08/01/06 03:25 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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thats what I'm working on now, the organic certification process, I know the lands history for the last 3 years and know for a fact that no chemicals have been used in that time
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demiu5
humans, lol


Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 43,948
Loc: the popcorn stadium
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Prisoner#1]
#5922232 - 08/01/06 03:29 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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that's pretty cool. I'm only 19, so I figure I have a ways to go before I'll have my own farm, but I can't wait. If I had the money for the land, taxes, a small house/shack, and solar capabilities, I'd be gone now...but I don't.
-------------------- channel your inner Larry David
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Aninator
Flashtique


Registered: 01/03/06
Posts: 2,228
Loc: Philadlephia, PA
Last seen: 7 months, 2 days
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: demiu5]
#5922508 - 08/01/06 05:21 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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goddamnit this upsets me. i just want good healthy REAL nonsynthetic shit!
Edited by AniNator (08/01/06 05:27 PM)
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trendal
J♠


Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Aninator]
#5922518 - 08/01/06 05:25 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Synthetic != bad Natural != good
Wrap your head around that one
--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: demiu5]
#5922520 - 08/01/06 05:25 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
demius said: so I figure I have a ways to go before I'll have my own farm
you can lease land for the short term, some plots as low as $25/yr, I have about 20 acres I'm getting ready to do that with
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theuser
DON'T LOOK

Registered: 08/04/05
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Prisoner#1]
#5922523 - 08/01/06 05:27 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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A balance of fast food and healthy stuff is a great way to live imo.
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demiu5
humans, lol


Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 43,948
Loc: the popcorn stadium
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Prisoner#1]
#5922527 - 08/01/06 05:28 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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man, that's awesome, I never knew about that. Hmmm...Pris, if you're the result of me dropping out of college, my mother might not be happy
-------------------- channel your inner Larry David
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Aninator]
#5922532 - 08/01/06 05:30 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
AniNator said: goddamnit this upsets me. i just want goo healthy REAL nonsynthetic shit!
I always preach the scam of national certified organics, the only way to know for sure is to get to know the growers... wanna get to know me 
I'm working on my web page so I can do some internet sales, ever had collard greens? I'm planting those tomorrow. look into community supported agriculture on this site theres a link to CSA farms, the north is absolutely full of them and many have variables on membership, average about $400/yr, others allow weekly payments of around $25/week and many will discount if you put in a few hours or pick your own produce
http://www.nal.usda.gov/afsic/csa/
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Aninator
Flashtique


Registered: 01/03/06
Posts: 2,228
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Last seen: 7 months, 2 days
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Prisoner#1]
#5922534 - 08/01/06 05:30 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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hey prisoner, wanna send me some fresh produce when you get that shit started?
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: theuser]
#5922538 - 08/01/06 05:31 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
theuser said: A balance of fast food and healthy stuff is a great way to live imo.
fast food tastes like cardboard, I like foods with flavor
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theuser
DON'T LOOK

Registered: 08/04/05
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Prisoner#1]
#5922545 - 08/01/06 05:33 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Dude, an ultamite chulupa at taco bell is so god damn good. So is pizza from papajohns. Eating it once in a while is fine.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Aninator]
#5922554 - 08/01/06 05:34 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
AniNator said: hey prisoner, wanna send me some fresh produce when you get that shit started?
I'll have some overages that will just hit the compost piles, if you're willing to pay the shipping it will be worthwhile for the both of us
the deer have eaten the crops the last 2 years, I'm finaly gertting my fences done so that shouldnt be a problem any more
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: theuser]
#5922558 - 08/01/06 05:35 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
theuser said: Dude, an ultamite chulupa at taco bell is so god damn good.
good in the same way that cheap canned dogfood id good?
Quote:
So is pizza from papajohns. Eating it once in a while is fine.
once in a while when you're desperate and cant find anything in a dumpster to eat other than taco bell
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theuser
DON'T LOOK

Registered: 08/04/05
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Prisoner#1]
#5922569 - 08/01/06 05:38 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Why the hate for them? The sour cream and guacamole is yummy. That pizza rocks too!
Ya, McDonald's is disgusting. Most of the stuff at taco bell is awful but subway is tasty!
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demiu5
humans, lol


Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 43,948
Loc: the popcorn stadium
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: theuser]
#5922584 - 08/01/06 05:43 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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fuck fast food!
-------------------- channel your inner Larry David
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: theuser]
#5922589 - 08/01/06 05:45 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
theuser said: Why the hate for them? The sour cream and guacamole is yummy. That pizza rocks too!
hate is a strons word, I just dont like the food, over the last 30 years the flavor, quality and consistency has declined (most resturants), portions are reduced while the prices have increased, then they try ant tell me what a value it is to buy their crap, for the same $6 I can hit a local cafe, buy a huge sammich and get flavor, or hit the local carniceria and have a 3lb steak buritto that I can have for lunch and dinner. both quite yummy and both supporting small business that help my community
Quote:
Ya, McDonald's is disgusting. Most of the stuff at taco bell is awful but subway is tasty!
I'll give in on subway, they are pretty damned good
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theuser
DON'T LOOK

Registered: 08/04/05
Posts: 5,859
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Prisoner#1]
#5922618 - 08/01/06 05:56 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Okay, maybe I agree with you more than I thought. I started listing off fast food places in my head. I think the list I gave you is all I like.
A few things at taco bell, and subway. Arby's is far to expensive HOWEVER their market sandwiches own. Wendies is nasty. I can't think of anymore atm...
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: theuser]
#5922631 - 08/01/06 05:59 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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keep not thinking about fast food places and you'll be happier in the long run
want some collards?
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theuser
DON'T LOOK

Registered: 08/04/05
Posts: 5,859
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Prisoner#1]
#5922652 - 08/01/06 06:07 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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What is a collard? Greens?
We eat a lot of beef in our house.
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Gr8fulJ420
strange but nota stranger


Registered: 02/17/01
Posts: 2,778
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Prisoner#1]
#5922665 - 08/01/06 06:12 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Here's a set of rhetorical questions for those of you who consume organic foodstuffs and extoll on their virtues versus food produced via "standard" farming practices...
Do you smoke herb, and if so, how do you know what sort of pesticides/fungicides/fertilizers the grower used to produce his smoke? Are you willing to lower your standards for herb cuz it's not food? What about other completely non-organic mind-altering chemicals? Why put those into your system if you try to eschew other chems used in food production? Some chemicals are okay, but not others? Where is the line drawn?
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ToolTroll
tourettic


Registered: 08/02/04
Posts: 2,326
Loc: N. Cack
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Prisoner#1]
#5922676 - 08/01/06 06:16 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Thanks, Prisoner, for that pdf. Very informative, and because of that, very scary. Federal certification was the best and the worst thing to happen to "organic" food. The big thing here (North Carolina) is "local", because you can actually talk to the grower, see how he grows, and there's not 2000 miles of transportation involved (cuz most organic food is grown in California and for someone on the East Coast to eat organic carrots just cuz they're organic is ignoring many more issues that are involved in food production. Well, anyway, mini-rant is over. Thanks for the food for thought...
-------------------- "This whole idea that different is bad, that a change in consciousness is in itself harmful, is really one of the fundamental problems inherent in the drug war.” - Rick Doblin my cactus collection You vote with your dollars. Everyday. Vote responsibly.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: theuser]
#5922718 - 08/01/06 06:28 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
theuser said: What is a collard? Greens? We eat a lot of beef in our house.
beef is good, in fact one thing you'll never hear us injuns say "no thanks, I'm a vegitarian"
yes, collards are greens, they're related to cabbage but they never form a head they're tougher than most other greens and hold up better to the long cooking time they qualify as 'soul food'
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: ToolTroll]
#5922748 - 08/01/06 06:36 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
ToolTroll said: The big thing here (North Carolina) is "local", because you can actually talk to the grower
one of the reasons I support local co-ops, CSA farms and the like, also you dont have to worry about the tomatoes being picked while their green, before they start developing the flavor, even holds true for the so called vine ripened tomatoes as well as other produce that ripened in transport or warehouses
thank you ethylene gas!
Quote:
there's not 2000 miles of transportation involved (cuz most organic food is grown in California and for someone on the East Coast to eat organic carrots just cuz they're organic is ignoring many more issues that are involved in food production.
if you really research into the markets you'll find that te same large corporate farms that everyone is protesting like Monsanto, ConAgra and Heinz are the dominant force in the organic market, these are the same companies that are producng the GM seeds, patented plants and submitting the synthetic prducts to the USDA for organic use, yet another reason big government shouldn't be in bed with big business
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demiu5
humans, lol


Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 43,948
Loc: the popcorn stadium
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Prisoner#1]
#5922755 - 08/01/06 06:37 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said: yet another reason big government shouldn't be in bed with big business
wasn't that the point 150 years ago?
-------------------- channel your inner Larry David
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: demiu5]
#5922783 - 08/01/06 06:45 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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yeah, think it's time for a revolution?
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Boglyn
Put them on theglass


Registered: 10/15/01
Posts: 513
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: demiu5]
#5922784 - 08/01/06 06:45 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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That makes me sad 
But growing your own is good. So good luck with that man.
-------------------- The sun, with all those planets revolving around it and dependent on it, can still ripen a bunch of grapes as if it had nothing else in the universe to do. ---Galileo
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demiu5
humans, lol


Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 43,948
Loc: the popcorn stadium
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Prisoner#1]
#5922827 - 08/01/06 06:57 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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check my sig
Neil still knows it's time
I just had to toss two of my tomatoes cause they had bacteria on em...I think it's cause they were touching the stake, but I'm not sure
-------------------- channel your inner Larry David
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Corporal Kielbasa

Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,235
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Prisoner#1]
#5922839 - 08/01/06 06:59 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Buying "organic" fruit from stores is egh... because even though its Organis they still can use X amount of chemical pestecides and X amount of chemical fert.
Buying from smaller organic farmers that actually cai about good food is the way to go. Buying from comercial "organic" farmers is better then nothing though.
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Organic
Lloyd

Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 5,774
Loc: Overlook
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Prisoner#1]
#5924323 - 08/02/06 03:07 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Grow your own. I haven't bought vegetables or fruit all year.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Organic]
#5924975 - 08/02/06 10:39 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Organic said: Grow your own.
I was thinking about doing just that, heres my yard, should I grow a little for everyone?
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Organic
Lloyd

Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 5,774
Loc: Overlook
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Prisoner#1]
#5925236 - 08/02/06 12:17 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Is that about 500-600 acres? Looks like some nice land, my garden is on a mountain-top hillside, about 6 acres of vegetables and 4-6 of scattered fruit all arranged for intensive production. Takes a lot of back-breaking work, especially with the drought this year. It'll be my last year of doing it because I'm moving into the city next year...ah I'll miss it. This is a pic standing on a stump and looking at dawn this morning, about 1400ft

Let me know if you need any assistance in any way if you ever go for it
--------------------
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eris
underground


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Posts: 48,024
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Last seen: 4 months, 18 days
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Prisoner#1]
#5925243 - 08/02/06 12:19 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Damn man nice piece of land there.
-------------------- Immortal / Temporarily Retired The OG Thread Killer My mushroom hunting gallery
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Organic]
#5925248 - 08/02/06 12:20 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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it's only 85 acres, luckily I have a tractor to handle the majority of the work drought doesnt hlp but I'm creative with irrigation, the deer have been my biggest problem
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Organic
Lloyd

Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 5,774
Loc: Overlook
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Prisoner#1]
#5925275 - 08/02/06 12:29 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Ahhh...I've wanted a tractor for so long...heh. Not having one was the only thing keeping me from knocking down some hardwoods and expanding my production. I have about the same amount of land, but it is all densely forested except the farmland.
I haven't had too many deer problems this year. They got my carrot sprouts in April, but since then I've only seen their tracks and they aren't eating anything... Maybe the water resevoir is keeping them satisfied enough.
Good luck this season, I've got my fingers crossed, the past few years have been tough with hurricanes.
--------------------
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Organic]
#5925289 - 08/02/06 12:35 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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the'd clear cut a great dea of land next to and behind me last winter just after hunting season, the deer have gotten bad enough that I'm sweeping poop off my porch, they're eating the leaves from my fruit trees and almost everything else I also have the abundant water supply they tend to enjoy, I'm screwed all the way around
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Viveka
refutation bias


Registered: 10/21/02
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Prisoner#1]
#5925559 - 08/02/06 02:13 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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I wonder why malted barley and whey protein are prohibited?
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Viveka]
#5925569 - 08/02/06 02:15 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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because the people in DC are obviously fucked
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tomk
King of OTD

Registered: 09/22/04
Posts: 1,559
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Prisoner#1]
#5925671 - 08/02/06 02:42 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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So what about some of these chemicals.
For example. Baking Soda. Calcium Carbonate. Silicone Dioxide.
These chemicals are pretty damn safe and necissary for a lot of cooking. If you like eating things like bread, and yogurt. Some synthetic chemicals are really OK. The worry in food isn't that someone will eat a synthetic chemical, but that someone will eat dangerous pesticides and fertilizers that accumulate in the body over a lifetime and cause cancers. I do 85% of my shopping at the local hippy co-ops and farmers markets, and I'm perfectly happy getting bread made with sodium bicarbonate or cheese that has added minerals created synthetically. I've even done some of the synthesis's in chemistry classes. It's not dangerous at all. Some of what is happening in Organic regulations is a scam, (for example, the amendment to a bill that said organic chicken could be fed conventional feed if organic feed was too expensive) but not this shit about putting baking soda in organic bread.
-------------------- "I am eternally free"
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: tomk]
#5925702 - 08/02/06 02:50 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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if you start reading into the legislation, you'll find that chemical pesticides are approved for use to a limited degree, aparently 5% of the fertilizer used in organic farms can also be synthetic
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tomk
King of OTD

Registered: 09/22/04
Posts: 1,559
Loc: PNW
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Prisoner#1]
#5925739 - 08/02/06 02:59 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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That isn't what you posted about, you posted about food additives.
I agree there are some problems with weakening organic standards and conflicts of intrest within the industry, but I don't think this food additive stuff should be that controversial.
-------------------- "I am eternally free"
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: tomk]
#5925791 - 08/02/06 03:17 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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my stetement was in response to yours regarding pesticides and fertilizers
now let me ask you, how many people used potasium phosphates, phosphoric acids, ozone, magnesium sterate or carageenan (considered natural) prior to the last 50 years, how many people buy these products to sanitize or cook with today, when is the last time you walked into the grocery store and searched for a jar of alginate
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