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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Organic Foods *The Scam*
    #5922022 - 08/01/06 02:17 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

non-synthetic -allowed
synthetic -allowed
synthetic -alloewd
synthetic -not allowed

http://www.ams.usda.gov/nop/archive/NOSBNationalListDatabase.pdf


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OfflineMicrocosmatrix
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5922027 - 08/01/06 02:20 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Fuck pdf


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:orly:



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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Microcosmatrix]
    #5922031 - 08/01/06 02:21 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

it would hurt my pen0r, no thanks


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OfflineMicrocosmatrix
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5922032 - 08/01/06 02:22 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

It shure would, but pdf would take 10 minutes to unzip you so I wouldn't worry.


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:orly:



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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Microcosmatrix]
    #5922035 - 08/01/06 02:25 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

if yuo buy organic products, you reallt should see the number of synthetic
compounds going into them, all approved, a few under review and only a few that
arent allowed

now cut it out before I whack your peepee


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5922211 - 08/01/06 03:22 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

that's part of why I don't buy organic foods from stores yet. I'll wait till I grow my own or know someone that does.


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channel your inner Larry David


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: demiu5]
    #5922223 - 08/01/06 03:25 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

thats what I'm working on now, the organic certification process, I know the lands
history for the last 3 years and know for a fact that no chemicals have been used
in that time


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5922232 - 08/01/06 03:29 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

that's pretty cool. I'm only 19, so I figure I have a ways to go before I'll have my own farm, but I can't wait. If I had the money for the land, taxes, a small house/shack, and solar capabilities, I'd be gone now...but I don't.


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OfflineAninator
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: demiu5]
    #5922508 - 08/01/06 05:21 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

goddamnit this upsets me. i just want good healthy REAL nonsynthetic shit!


Edited by AniNator (08/01/06 05:27 PM)


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Aninator]
    #5922518 - 08/01/06 05:25 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Synthetic != bad
Natural != good

Wrap your head around that one :wink:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: demiu5]
    #5922520 - 08/01/06 05:25 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

demius said:
so I figure I have a ways to go before I'll have my own farm




you can lease land for the short term, some plots as low as $25/yr, I have about 20 acres I'm getting ready to do that with


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Offlinetheuser
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5922523 - 08/01/06 05:27 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

A balance of fast food and healthy stuff is a great way to live imo.


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5922527 - 08/01/06 05:28 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

man, that's awesome, I never knew about that. Hmmm...Pris, if you're the result of me dropping out of college, my mother might not be happy


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channel your inner Larry David


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Aninator]
    #5922532 - 08/01/06 05:30 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

AniNator said:
goddamnit this upsets me. i just want goo healthy REAL nonsynthetic shit!




I always preach the scam of national certified organics, the only way to know for sure is to get to know the growers... wanna get to know me :naughty:

I'm working on my web page so I can do some internet sales, ever had collard
greens? I'm planting those tomorrow. look into community supported agriculture
on this site theres a link to CSA farms, the north is absolutely full of them
and many have variables on membership, average about $400/yr, others allow
weekly payments of around $25/week and many will discount if you put in a few
hours or pick your own produce

http://www.nal.usda.gov/afsic/csa/


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OfflineAninator
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5922534 - 08/01/06 05:30 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

hey prisoner, wanna send me some fresh produce when you get that shit started?


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: theuser]
    #5922538 - 08/01/06 05:31 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

theuser said:
A balance of fast food and healthy stuff is a great way to live imo.




fast food tastes like cardboard, I like foods with flavor


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Offlinetheuser
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5922545 - 08/01/06 05:33 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Dude, an ultamite chulupa at taco bell is so god damn good. So is pizza from papajohns. Eating it once in a while is fine. :wink:


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Aninator]
    #5922554 - 08/01/06 05:34 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

AniNator said:
hey prisoner, wanna send me some fresh produce when you get that shit started?




I'll have some overages that will just hit the compost piles, if you're willing to pay the shipping it will be worthwhile for the both of us

the deer have eaten the crops the last 2 years, I'm finaly gertting my fences done so that shouldnt be a problem any more


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: theuser]
    #5922558 - 08/01/06 05:35 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

theuser said:
Dude, an ultamite chulupa at taco bell is so god damn good.




good in the same way that cheap canned dogfood id good?

Quote:

So is pizza from papajohns. Eating it once in a while is fine. :wink:




once in a while when you're desperate and cant find anything in a dumpster to eat
other than taco bell  :smirk:


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Offlinetheuser
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5922569 - 08/01/06 05:38 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Why the hate for them? The sour cream and guacamole is yummy. That pizza rocks too!

Ya, McDonald's is disgusting. Most of the stuff at taco bell is awful but subway is tasty!


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: theuser]
    #5922584 - 08/01/06 05:43 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

fuck fast food!


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: theuser]
    #5922589 - 08/01/06 05:45 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

theuser said:
Why the hate for them? The sour cream and guacamole is yummy. That pizza rocks too!




hate is a strons word, I just dont like the food, over the last 30 years the
flavor, quality and consistency has declined (most resturants), portions are
reduced while the prices have increased, then they try ant tell me what a value
it is to buy their crap, for the same $6 I can hit a local cafe, buy a huge
sammich and get flavor, or hit the local carniceria and have a 3lb steak buritto
that I can have for lunch and dinner. both quite yummy and both supporting small
business that help my community


Quote:

Ya, McDonald's is disgusting. Most of the stuff at taco bell is awful but subway is tasty!




I'll give in on subway, they are pretty damned good


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Offlinetheuser
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5922618 - 08/01/06 05:56 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Okay, maybe I agree with you more than I thought. I started listing off fast food places in my head. I think the list I gave you is all I like.:lol:

A few things at taco bell, and subway. Arby's is far to expensive HOWEVER their market sandwiches own. Wendies is nasty. I can't think of anymore atm...


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: theuser]
    #5922631 - 08/01/06 05:59 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

keep not thinking about fast food places and you'll be happier in the long run

want some collards?


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Offlinetheuser
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5922652 - 08/01/06 06:07 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

What is a collard? Greens?

We eat a lot of beef in our house.


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OfflineGr8fulJ420
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5922665 - 08/01/06 06:12 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Here's a set of rhetorical questions for those of you who consume organic foodstuffs and extoll on their virtues versus food produced via "standard" farming practices...

Do you smoke herb, and if so, how do you know what sort of pesticides/fungicides/fertilizers the grower used to produce his smoke? Are you willing to lower your standards for herb cuz it's not food? What about other completely non-organic mind-altering chemicals? Why put those into your system if you try to eschew other chems used in food production? Some chemicals are okay, but not others? Where is the line drawn?


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InvisibleToolTroll
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5922676 - 08/01/06 06:16 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks, Prisoner, for that pdf. Very informative, and because of that, very scary. Federal certification was the best and the worst thing to happen to "organic" food. The big thing here (North Carolina) is "local", because you can actually talk to the grower, see how he grows, and there's not 2000 miles of transportation involved (cuz most organic food is grown in California and for someone on the East Coast to eat organic carrots just cuz they're organic is ignoring many more issues that are involved in food production.
Well, anyway,  mini-rant is over. Thanks for the food for thought... :smile:


--------------------
"This whole idea that different is bad, that a change in consciousness is in itself harmful, is really one of the fundamental problems inherent in the drug war.” - Rick Doblin
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You vote with your dollars. Everyday. Vote responsibly.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: theuser]
    #5922718 - 08/01/06 06:28 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

theuser said:
What is a collard? Greens?
We eat a lot of beef in our house.




beef is good, in fact one thing you'll never hear us injuns say "no thanks, I'm a vegitarian"

yes, collards are greens, they're related to cabbage but they never form a head
they're tougher than most other greens and hold up better to the long cooking time
they qualify as 'soul food'


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: ToolTroll]
    #5922748 - 08/01/06 06:36 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

ToolTroll said:
The big thing here (North Carolina) is "local", because you can actually talk to the grower




one of the reasons I support local co-ops, CSA farms and the like, also you
dont have to worry about the tomatoes being picked while their green, before
they start developing the flavor, even holds true for the so called vine ripened
tomatoes as well as other produce that ripened in transport or warehouses

thank you ethylene gas!

Quote:

there's not 2000 miles of transportation involved (cuz most organic food is grown in California and for someone on the East Coast to eat organic carrots just cuz they're organic is ignoring many more issues that are involved in food production.





if you really research into the markets you'll find that te same large corporate
farms that everyone is protesting like Monsanto, ConAgra and Heinz are the
dominant force in the organic market, these are the same companies that are
producng the GM seeds, patented plants and submitting the synthetic prducts to
the USDA for organic use, yet another reason big government shouldn't be in bed
with big business


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5922755 - 08/01/06 06:37 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
yet another reason big government shouldn't be in bed
with big business




wasn't that the point 150 years ago?


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: demiu5]
    #5922783 - 08/01/06 06:45 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

yeah, think it's time for a revolution?


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OfflineBoglyn
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: demiu5]
    #5922784 - 08/01/06 06:45 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

That makes me sad  :sad:

But growing your own is good.  So good luck with that man.  :thumbup:


--------------------
The sun, with all those planets revolving around it and dependent on it, can still ripen a bunch of grapes as if it had nothing else in the universe to do.
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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5922827 - 08/01/06 06:57 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

check my sig

Neil still knows it's time

I just had to toss two of my tomatoes cause they had bacteria on em...I think it's cause they were touching the stake, but I'm not sure


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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa

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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5922839 - 08/01/06 06:59 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Buying "organic" fruit from stores is egh... because even though its Organis they still can use X amount of chemical pestecides and X amount of chemical fert.


Buying from smaller organic farmers that actually cai about good food is the way to go. Buying from comercial "organic" farmers is better then nothing though.


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OfflineOrganic
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5924323 - 08/02/06 03:07 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Grow your own. I haven't bought vegetables or fruit all year.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Organic]
    #5924975 - 08/02/06 10:39 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Organic said:
Grow your own.




I was thinking about doing just that, heres my yard, should I grow a little for everyone?



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OfflineOrganic
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5925236 - 08/02/06 12:17 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Is that about 500-600 acres? Looks like some nice land, my garden is on a mountain-top hillside, about 6 acres of vegetables and 4-6 of scattered fruit all arranged for intensive production. Takes a lot of back-breaking work, especially with the drought this year. It'll be my last year of doing it because I'm moving into the city next year...ah I'll miss it. This is a pic standing on a stump and looking at dawn this morning, about 1400ft


Let me know if you need any assistance in any way if you ever go for it :thumbup:


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Offlineeris
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5925243 - 08/02/06 12:19 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Damn man nice piece of land there.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Organic]
    #5925248 - 08/02/06 12:20 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

it's only 85 acres, luckily I have a tractor to handle the majority of the work
drought doesnt hlp but I'm creative with irrigation, the deer have been my biggest problem



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OfflineOrganic
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5925275 - 08/02/06 12:29 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Ahhh...I've wanted a tractor for so long...heh. Not having one was the only thing keeping me from knocking down some hardwoods and expanding my production. I have about the same amount of land, but it is all densely forested except the farmland.

I haven't had too many deer problems this year. They got my carrot sprouts in April, but since then I've only seen their tracks and they aren't eating anything... Maybe the water resevoir is keeping them satisfied enough.

Good luck this season, I've got my fingers crossed, the past few years have been tough with hurricanes.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Organic]
    #5925289 - 08/02/06 12:35 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

the'd clear cut a great dea of land next to and behind me last winter just after
hunting season, the deer have gotten bad enough that I'm sweeping poop off my
porch, they're eating the leaves from my fruit trees and almost everything else
I also have the abundant water supply they tend to enjoy, I'm screwed all the way
around


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OfflineViveka
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5925559 - 08/02/06 02:13 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I wonder why malted barley and whey protein are prohibited?


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Viveka]
    #5925569 - 08/02/06 02:15 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

because the people in DC are obviously fucked


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Offlinetomk
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5925671 - 08/02/06 02:42 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

So what about some of these chemicals.

For example. Baking Soda. Calcium Carbonate. Silicone Dioxide.

These chemicals are pretty damn safe and necissary for a lot of cooking. If you like eating things like bread, and yogurt. Some synthetic chemicals are really OK. The worry in food isn't that someone will eat a synthetic chemical, but that someone will eat dangerous pesticides and fertilizers that accumulate in the body over a lifetime and cause cancers. I do 85% of my shopping at the local hippy co-ops and farmers markets, and I'm perfectly happy getting bread made with sodium bicarbonate or cheese that has added minerals created synthetically. I've even done some of the synthesis's in chemistry classes. It's not dangerous at all. Some of what is happening in Organic regulations is a scam, (for example, the amendment to a bill that said organic chicken could be fed conventional feed if organic feed was too expensive) but not this shit about putting baking soda in organic bread.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: tomk]
    #5925702 - 08/02/06 02:50 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

if you start reading into the legislation, you'll find that chemical pesticides
are approved for use to a limited degree, aparently 5% of the fertilizer used
in organic farms can also be synthetic


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Offlinetomk
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5925739 - 08/02/06 02:59 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

That isn't what you posted about, you posted about food additives.

I agree there are some problems with weakening organic standards and conflicts of intrest within the industry, but I don't think this food additive stuff should be that controversial.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
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Re: Organic Foods *The Scam* [Re: tomk]
    #5925791 - 08/02/06 03:17 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

my stetement was in response to yours regarding pesticides and fertilizers

now let me ask you, how many people used potasium phosphates, phosphoric acids,
ozone, magnesium sterate or carageenan (considered natural) prior to the last 50
years, how many people buy these products to sanitize or cook with today, when is
the last time you walked into the grocery store and searched for a jar of alginate


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