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Offlinep0ng
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How 9/11 was set up by the US Government
    #5921264 - 08/01/06 08:48 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1519312457137943386&q=loose+change

Check out this documentary. It is about an hour and a half long and questions just about every aspest of 9/11. It shows how the US government set up 9/11 to make some money and to create fear.

I didnt believe it before I watched it. Now I am a true believer.


--------------------
Co-President of http://www.FantomFitness.com


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InvisibleBoom
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: p0ng]
    #5921269 - 08/01/06 08:54 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

OMG


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InvisibleUnderNose
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: Boom]
    #5921281 - 08/01/06 09:03 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)


:repost: :imwithstupid:


Edited by UnderNose (08/01/06 09:07 AM)


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OfflinePhred
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: p0ng]
    #5921283 - 08/01/06 09:06 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

That video has been so thoroughly debunked by so many different people I'm surprised they bothered to make a "Second Edition".

There are hundreds of websites shredding pretty much every point made in that ridiculous piece of nonsense, but here's one of the more comprehensive ones -- http://www.ccdominoes.com/lc/LooseChangeGuide.html




Phred


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Offlinep0ng
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: Phred]
    #5921284 - 08/01/06 09:08 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Have you seen the second edition? okay then


--------------------
Co-President of http://www.FantomFitness.com


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Offlinehabitat0789
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: p0ng]
    #5921291 - 08/01/06 09:17 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

patriot theory anyone?


--------------------

ilove my woods...


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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa

Registered: 05/29/04
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: Phred]
    #5921296 - 08/01/06 09:21 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

:rolleyes: :nicekitty:


Edited by Corporal Kielbasa (08/01/06 09:48 AM)


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Offlineabsolute zero
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: p0ng]
    #5921302 - 08/01/06 09:25 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

p0ng said:
It shows how the US government set up 9/11 to make some money and to create fear.

I didnt believe it before I watched it. Now I am a true believer.




I've got to say, I've seen this already and am quite unconvinced... I just don't believe everything I see/read/hear...

:tinfoilhat:

With that being said, I commend you for posting something that might be unpopular in your own personal search for truth. We need people out there questioning whether what the government, media, corporations, and even the common man say is true, however, we also need to work on our critical thinking skills and demand proof for unsubstantiated claims...


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InvisibleDNKYD
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: p0ng]
    #5921307 - 08/01/06 09:26 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

A bunch of my friends told me about that video and told me to watch it. They then proceeded to tell me all of the shit in it. Now don't get me wrong, I am very, very skeptical of our government's "explanation" of what happened. I know something fishy went down, but the way my friends talked about the shit in the Loose Change video made me laugh. Really hard. So now I don't even feel like wasting an hour to watch that BS.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: Corporal Kielbasa]
    #5921313 - 08/01/06 09:28 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

How can they debunk it? The video clips and footage seem to speak for themselves.




Click the link I provided and read just the first page of it. Then you'll know.





Phred


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InvisibleUnderNose
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: Phred]
    #5921316 - 08/01/06 09:29 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I bet Chuck Norris could get to the bottom of this.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: p0ng]
    #5921323 - 08/01/06 09:34 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Have you seen the second edition? okay then




The link I provided debunks the Second Edition.

Don't feel bad you got sucked in by the video. If you are unaware of the actual facts of the situation and rely on nothing other than what is presented in the video -- accepting it all as unvarnished and complete truth -- then of course you will come away with the impression that some evil nefarious government scheme had been perpetrated on the American people. It's not until you bother to check out their absurd claims (which is very easy to do, although sometimes time consuming) that the whole house of cards collapses. If you don't have all the data, you can't come to the right conclusions. And the makers of the video had no interest in providing all the data. If they did, no one would watch their video.




Phred


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InvisibleVoidOfsPg
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: Phred]
    #5921349 - 08/01/06 09:49 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

So what makes you think you have the right "facts". Were you there?


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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa

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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: VoidOfsPg]
    #5921358 - 08/01/06 09:55 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

No but supposedly the person that wrote this guide did. . ..... But who is to know the credibility of that......

It is convincing though.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: VoidOfsPg]
    #5921365 - 08/01/06 10:01 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Were the makers of the video there?

I find it amusing how many people will invest the time to download and watch a ninety minute (or whatever length it is) video but won't make the effort to click a link with exhaustively detailed point by point rebuttals from multiple credible sources. You can read the website at the link I provided in less time than it takes to watch the video.

But -- as I pointed out already -- that particular website is far from the only one which debunks the video. It is possible to spend days thoroughly checking out all the various links and links to links on sites which focus more exhaustively on specific parts of the conspiracy theories.

Do you want to know what really happened or don't you? If you don't it's no skin off my nose. But to rely on that laughably inept piece of propagandist trash as your sole source of "facts" for what happened that day shows a susceptibility to brainwashing so severe as to be self-enabling.




Phred


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Offlinerobbyberto
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: p0ng]
    #5921465 - 08/01/06 10:54 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)



--------------------
“People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington



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InvisibleIrradiated_Feces
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: p0ng]
    #5921486 - 08/01/06 11:00 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Read - Crossing the Rubicon by Mike Ruppert

He is an ex-LAPD drug investigator who goes through 911 in a scientific fashion, I've just begun to read the book and I'm blown away by his claims and his research. Summary below...


Michael Ruppert is an Honors graduate of UCLA in Political Science and a former LAPD narcotics investigator who discovered CIA trafficking in drugs in 1977. After attempting to expose this he was forced out of LAPD in 1978. In 1996, after 18 years of being a “voice crying in the wilderness” he managed to have a face to face public encounter with then CIA Director John Deutch on national television - the CIA director had gone to Watts to respond to community uproar about the Cocaine Importation Agency ...

Crossing the Rubicon: the Decline of the American Empire at the End of the Age of Oil by Michael C. Ruppert is a detective story that gets to the innermost core of the 9/11 attacks. It places 9/11 at the center of a desperate new America, created by specific, named individuals in preparation for Peak Oil: an economic crisis like nothing the world has ever seen.

The attacks of September 11th, 2001 were accomplished through an amazing orchestration of logistics and personnel. Crossing the Rubicon discovers and identifies the key suspects and persons of interest -- finding some of them in the highest echelons of American government -- by showing how they acted in concert to guarantee that the attacks occurred and produced the desired result.

In describing the contents of the book he has spent two and a half years researching and writing Ruppert said:

"In my new book I will be making several key points:

1. I will name Richard Cheney as the prime suspect in the mass murders of 9/11 and will establish that, not only was he a planner in the attacks, but also that on the day of the attacks he was running a completely separate Command, Control and Communications system which was superceding any orders being issued by the NMCC [National Military Command Center], or the White House Situation Room.
2. I will establish conclusively that in May of 2001, by presidential order, Richard Cheney was put in direct command and control of all wargame and field exercise training and scheduling through several agencies, especially FEMA. This also extended to all of the conflicting and overlapping NORAD drills on that day.
3. I will also demonstrate that the TRIPOD II exercise being set up on Sept. 10th in Manhattan was directly connected to Cheney's role.
4. I will also prove conclusively that a number of public officials, at the national and New York City levels, including then Mayor Rudolph Giuliani, were aware that Flight 175 was en route to lower Manhattan for 20 minutes and did nothing to order the evacuation of or warn the occupants of the South Tower. One military officer was forced to leave his post in the middle of the attacks and place a private call to his brother -- who worked at the WTC -- warning him to get out. That was because no other part of the system was taking action.
5. I will also show that the Israeli and British governments acted as partners with the highest levels of the American government to help in the preparation and, very possibly, the actual execution of the attacks."

"There is more reason to be afraid of not facing the evidence in this book than of facing what is in it."


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Offlinerobbyberto
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: Irradiated_Feces]
    #5921617 - 08/01/06 11:48 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)


You won't, fucking idiots.


--------------------
“People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington



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InvisibleIrradiated_Feces
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: robbyberto]
    #5921635 - 08/01/06 11:51 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

People are given information on a need to know basis, this is the foundation of covert operations.


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InvisibleAtheist
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: Phred]
    #5921677 - 08/01/06 12:06 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
That video has been so thoroughly debunked by so many different people I'm surprised they bothered to make a "Second Edition".

There are hundreds of websites shredding pretty much every point made in that ridiculous piece of nonsense, but here's one of the more comprehensive ones -- http://www.ccdominoes.com/lc/LooseChangeGuide.html




Phred




thats an awesome site thanks  :thumbup:


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Invisibletruekimbo2
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: Irradiated_Feces]
    #5921711 - 08/01/06 12:19 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

lol, phred i read one of the sections about the pentagon on that link you sent. that guy makes no sense. i didn't see very many facts there that contradict anything. if anything i think i believe the origional more now...


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You can check the last post in my journal for contact info.


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InvisibleAtheist
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: truekimbo2]
    #5921720 - 08/01/06 12:23 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

why did the FBI take all the footage from security cameras away?

the hotel, the gas station cameras were both aimed at the side of the crash

within minutes they were confiscated, thats pretty fuckin weird


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InvisiblePenguarky Tunguin
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: Atheist]
    #5921725 - 08/01/06 12:24 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

You're on a need-to-know basis and you don't need to know.


--------------------
Every mistake, intentional or otherwise, in the above post, is the fault of the reader.


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OfflinePurpleKush
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: Penguarky Tunguin]
    #5921748 - 08/01/06 12:30 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

this is why i plan on escaping to canada.

i cant figure it out, so i wont be a part of it anymore.
:paranoid:


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:blindfury::fried::psychsplit::vaped:


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Invisibletruekimbo2
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: PurpleKush]
    #5921785 - 08/01/06 12:41 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

however i didn' bother to click the links to the eyewitnesses, although it doesn't prove it to me, i think its an excelent counterpoint to the idea it wasn't a plane...

i take back my earlier position, although i still think that first site was lame, the eyewitness accounts speak for themselves.


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You can check the last post in my journal for contact info.


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Invisiblebuckwheat
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: Phred]
    #5921863 - 08/01/06 01:05 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
That video has been so thoroughly debunked by so many different people I'm surprised they bothered to make a "Second Edition".

There are hundreds of websites shredding pretty much every point made in that ridiculous piece of nonsense, but here's one of the more comprehensive ones -- http://www.ccdominoes.com/lc/LooseChangeGuide.html

Phred




Wow that link covers alot of topics allot better than the popular mechanics article as far as "debunking" goes. :eek: A quick read on the molten steel section however is missing things such as  These findings  Or maybe their take on this is located somewhere i could not find it. The 911 military drills section is particularly short, void of facts but filled with this persons rhetoric.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: robbyberto]
    #5921949 - 08/01/06 01:37 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

robbyberto said:




Funny thing is, there have been demolition experts and scientists who have come to question the official story. A prominent physics professor at BYU has spoken about how a fire could not have caused WTC7 to collapse at free-fall speed the way it did. Several demolitions experts have said that not only did it look like a demolition job, but one of the finest demolition jobs they've ever seen.


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Offlinerobbyberto
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: Silversoul]
    #5921992 - 08/01/06 02:02 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Your bullshit makes me sick. Go die.


--------------------
“People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington



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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: robbyberto]
    #5922003 - 08/01/06 02:07 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

robbyberto said:
Your bullshit makes me sick. Go die.



So, you wish death upon me for stating what certain experts believe? How kind of you.


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InvisibleIrradiated_Feces
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: robbyberto]
    #5922009 - 08/01/06 02:10 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

What have you done to prove what he says is bullshit? Come back with an open mind you ignorant SOB.


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InvisibleClean
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: p0ng]
    #5922021 - 08/01/06 02:16 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

regardless of the content of Loose Change, there is enough evidece to show government complicity. It's a matter of one's ability to set aside their beliefs about how the geopolitical game is played, and the nature of the players, and look at the facts. From there one can either choose denial, or to face reality.

Most people's beliefs about government are based on what they've been told by institutions set up to ensure survival of government through indoctrination, also known as education. If one can't even realize that simple fact how can we expect them to merely attempt to question those beliefs? We can't.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: Clean]
    #5922025 - 08/01/06 02:19 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Clean said:
government complicity.




for many years before the 9/11 the government has had complicity in domestic acts of 'terrorism'


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InvisibleClean
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5922060 - 08/01/06 02:37 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

For sure, but tell that to someone who thinks that the people in the seats of governmet are actually in opposition to so called muslim extremists, and that they are not working in concert behind the media smokescreen.

WW2: Pearl Harbor
Vietnam: the gulf of Tonkin
both were blatant setups. hell even the mainstream press has admitted the Tonkin fraud!

i guess i'm just tired of banging my head against a brick wall when it comes to people who refuse to seriously look at 9-11. The evidence speaks for itself, but what's the use if someone is happy to remain deaf and ignorant?


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: Clean]
    #5922066 - 08/01/06 02:42 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Clean said:
WW2: Pearl Harbor
Vietnam: the gulf of Tonkin
both were blatant setups. hell even the mainstream press has admitted the Tonkin fraud!



You're forgetting the most blatant one of all: The sinking of the U.S.S. Maine.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: Clean]
    #5922071 - 08/01/06 02:42 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Clean said:
The evidence speaks for itself




there is no evidence, case in point; Richard Murrah Federal Building, the site was
demoloshed prior to any sort of investigation, the public outcry garnered the
response from government "we want to allow the public to try and move on, to mourn
this tragedy and move on"

interestingly, this was the 3rd (prior to) and 4th (post bombng) that the Omnibus Crime Bill was put in front of the house, that bill was ammended and renamed and passed after 9/11 as the Patriot Act


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InvisibleClean
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: Silversoul]
    #5922074 - 08/01/06 02:43 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

and the Lusitania...


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InvisibleAtheist
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5922085 - 08/01/06 02:45 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

however, we were still attacked on a pretty large scale

no doubt there was some fishy shit going on, but 3000 Americans died that day, something nobody should forget

especially when looking at conspiracy theories


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: Clean]
    #5922086 - 08/01/06 02:46 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

And don't forget the Northwoods Documents. Thank God we had Kennedy in office. If those papers arrived at Bush's desk, we might've had a nuclear war.


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InvisibleClean
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5922088 - 08/01/06 02:47 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

to rephrase: the evidence (that didn't end up in a Chinese scrapyard) speaks for itself.


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Invisiblebuckwheat
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: Clean]
    #5922098 - 08/01/06 02:50 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I wonder if the Chinese examined that evidence.Never even thought about that until now.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: Atheist]
    #5922105 - 08/01/06 02:53 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

SpicyTunaRoll said:
however, we were still attacked on a pretty large scale
no doubt there was some fishy shit going on, but 3000 Americans died that day, something nobody should forget
especially when looking at conspiracy theories




the conspiracy that our borders are open or the one about how the FBI had prior
knowledge of the attacks, informed the whitehouse and nothing was done or the
one in which the US funded these terrorists...

heres a conspiracy for you... Why is the WTC attack not credited to Osama on his
'most wanted' poster

fbi.gov/wanted/topten/fugitives/laden.htm


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Invisiblebuckwheat
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: buckwheat]
    #5922107 - 08/01/06 02:53 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Ofcourse they wouldnt need to im sure they saw all the ruckus all those nuclear drills caused like the Russians did.


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InvisibleAtheist
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5922111 - 08/01/06 02:54 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

that shit hasnt been updated in years


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: Atheist]
    #5922114 - 08/01/06 02:55 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

SpicyTunaRoll said:
that shit hasnt been updated in years




june 1999
Poster Revised November 2001


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InvisibleClean
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: Atheist]
    #5922117 - 08/01/06 02:56 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

SpicyTunaRoll said:
no doubt there was some fishy shit going on, but 3000 Americans died that day, something nobody should forget

especially when looking at conspiracy theories




And don't you think those families should get an honest explanation of why their loved one' life was cut short?

The most outrageous theory I've seen is that 19 arabs trained on single engine aircraft pulled off those maneuvers with commercial jets, that they were masterminded by a single man who managed an effective Stand Down of the nation's air defences from a cave in Afghanistan, and that the U.S. had no idea that anyone would ever dream of using commercial aircraft to commit acts of war.


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OfflineQuantumMeltdown
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: Clean]
    #5922130 - 08/01/06 02:59 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

You guys are so deep in bullshit its a wonder you can still breathe.


--------------------
-QuantumMeltdown

Total abstinence is so excellent a thing that it cannot be carried to too great an extent. In my passion for it I even carry it so far as to totally abstain from total abstinence itself.
  -Mark Twain

"The time has come the walrus said, little oysters  hide their heads, my Twain of thought is loosely bound I guess its time to Mark this down, Be good and you will be lonesome
Be lonesome and you will be free
Live a lie and you will live to regret it
That's what livin' is to me
That's what livin' is to me"
Jimmy Buffett


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InvisibleClean
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: buckwheat]
    #5922134 - 08/01/06 03:01 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

luckily we have William Rodriguez to tell us what happened. watch that video!


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InvisibleIrradiated_Feces
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: QuantumMeltdown]
    #5922143 - 08/01/06 03:06 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Do you honestly take everything that has happened at face value? have you looked into the facts? Do some research and tell us this is all bullshit.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: QuantumMeltdown]
    #5922158 - 08/01/06 03:11 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

QuantumMeltdown said:
You guys are so deep in bullshit its a wonder you can still breathe.




top secret breathing device


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OfflineQuantumMeltdown
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5922177 - 08/01/06 03:15 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

lol and the the poster who questioned my bullshit comment looking into the "facts" imo is not the same as looking at some Alex Jones or some other Spooks website like infowars.com they don't have any "facts" there and if they do they are just about as reliable as the news medias.


--------------------
-QuantumMeltdown

Total abstinence is so excellent a thing that it cannot be carried to too great an extent. In my passion for it I even carry it so far as to totally abstain from total abstinence itself.
  -Mark Twain

"The time has come the walrus said, little oysters  hide their heads, my Twain of thought is loosely bound I guess its time to Mark this down, Be good and you will be lonesome
Be lonesome and you will be free
Live a lie and you will live to regret it
That's what livin' is to me
That's what livin' is to me"
Jimmy Buffett


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: QuantumMeltdown]
    #5922187 - 08/01/06 03:17 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Try reading The New Pearl Harbor by David Ray Griffin. It's full of facts, which he examines very carefully. Even his detractors admit he's no kook.


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InvisibleIrradiated_Feces
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: Irradiated_Feces]
    #5922197 - 08/01/06 03:19 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

With events of this magnitude and the amount of knowledge out there, i dont get how people would rather call bullshit and refuse to face the facts, rather than look into it themselves and form their own opinions.


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InvisibleIrradiated_Feces
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: QuantumMeltdown]
    #5922204 - 08/01/06 03:21 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I quoted a book earlier - Crossing The Rubicon - Mike Ruppert. The guy is no alex jones, and certainly no quack. Again, look into the facts.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: QuantumMeltdown]
    #5922206 - 08/01/06 03:21 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

QuantumMeltdown said:
lol and the the poster who questioned my bullshit comment looking into the "facts"




it's all bullshit regardless of which side you get, a few actual facts get out
and nothing ever comes of any of it, unless you're in government, then incomptence
and abuse are rewarded, ask Lon "baby killer" Horiutchi


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: Irradiated_Feces]
    #5922230 - 08/01/06 03:27 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I think that, for all the bitching people do about the government, they're afraid to face the possibility that our government could do something so atrocious to its own citizens(though it's certain done much worse things in other countries). There is also a fear of being radicalized. To suggest that the government was behind an event such as 9/11 is to put oneself on the fringes of the political spectrum, and face immense ridicule, such as the stuff that QM has been saying. Thus, most people don't want to look into it, and most who have their suspicions are afraid to voice them. It becomes a conspiracy of silence. This is how conspiracies always work.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: Silversoul]
    #5922233 - 08/01/06 03:29 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Ithey're afraid to face the possibility that our government could do something so atrocious to its own citizens




our government wouldnt do that!



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InvisibleIrradiated_Feces
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: Silversoul]
    #5922248 - 08/01/06 03:35 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I think the problem also relates to this comment...
Quote:


FTW, November 7, 2001, 1200 PST (Revised Jan. 21,2002) - There's a quote often attributed to Allen Dulles after it was noted that the final 1964 report of the Warren Commission on the assassination of JFK contained dramatic inconsistencies. Those inconsistencies, in effect, disproved the Commission's own final conclusion that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone on November 22, 1963. Dulles, a career spy, Wall Street lawyer, the CIA director whom JFK had fired after the 1961 Bay of Pigs fiasco - and the Warren Commission member who took charge of the investigation and final report - is reported to have said, "The American people don't read."




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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: Irradiated_Feces]
    #5922271 - 08/01/06 03:41 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I've actually come to some of my conclusions about 9/11 reluctantly. For a while, I was willing to believe that the government allowed 9/11 to happen, but not that it actually had a hand in carrying it out. But then, I read about what happened with Building 7, and even the complicity scenario doesn't explain that. It can't explain why WTC7 was the first steel-frame building in history to completely collapse by fire alone, and at free-fall speed, no less.


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OfflineQuantumMeltdown
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: Silversoul]
    #5922295 - 08/01/06 03:49 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

We are very polarized right now politically as a country and the democratic party doesn't have many moderates with much popularity left so its either your a Bush lover and believe it was terrorists who did it or your a Dem who thinks it was the govt. Thats why the dems lost the election IMO not any good moderate candidates. Hopefully they change their ways before next election or they will lose again but they will probably just blame it on a rigged vote or some such BS gosh what a pathetic bunch they are.


--------------------
-QuantumMeltdown

Total abstinence is so excellent a thing that it cannot be carried to too great an extent. In my passion for it I even carry it so far as to totally abstain from total abstinence itself.
  -Mark Twain

"The time has come the walrus said, little oysters  hide their heads, my Twain of thought is loosely bound I guess its time to Mark this down, Be good and you will be lonesome
Be lonesome and you will be free
Live a lie and you will live to regret it
That's what livin' is to me
That's what livin' is to me"
Jimmy Buffett


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InvisibleIrradiated_Feces
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: QuantumMeltdown]
    #5922302 - 08/01/06 03:52 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

9/11 should not be a partisan issue, this is something that effects everyone on every level.


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InvisibleClean
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: QuantumMeltdown]
    #5922328 - 08/01/06 04:03 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

QuantumMeltdown said:
so its either your a Bush lover and believe it was terrorists who did it or your a Dem who thinks it was the govt.




Who are these mysterious Dems you speak of? The vast majority of Democratic state reps. won't touch 9-11. If they do invoke it in speach they' re either parroting the Bush version of events, or trying to win favor with someone.

And you're denying election fraud? do you ever read news?


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: Irradiated_Feces]
    #5922333 - 08/01/06 04:04 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

the actual even had little to no effect on me, the subsequent legislation has a lasting effect

also tied into the debate should be the illegal immigrant debates, with 30 million
curretly residing here from more than 40 countries, I think theres a porousity
problem with the borders, how would we stop the next 'terrorist' attack if we
invite them in so freely


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: QuantumMeltdown]
    #5922334 - 08/01/06 04:05 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

QuantumMeltdown said:
We are very polarized right now politically as a country and the democratic party doesn't have many moderates with much popularity left so its either your a Bush lover and believe it was terrorists who did it or your a Dem who thinks it was the govt.



WTF? Name one Democratic senator who endorses the theory that the government was behind it.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: Clean]
    #5922339 - 08/01/06 04:07 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Clean said:
And you're denying election fraud?




there are elections?


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OfflineQuantumMeltdown
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: Silversoul]
    #5922359 - 08/01/06 04:22 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I wasn't really talking about the Dems in office right now but more of the Micheal Moores and Howard Deans, who have alot of influence over young people and get them to vote for the demorcratic ticket. These kind of people scare away alot of moderate democrats maybe their voting the other way isntead or voting independant.


--------------------
-QuantumMeltdown

Total abstinence is so excellent a thing that it cannot be carried to too great an extent. In my passion for it I even carry it so far as to totally abstain from total abstinence itself.
  -Mark Twain

"The time has come the walrus said, little oysters  hide their heads, my Twain of thought is loosely bound I guess its time to Mark this down, Be good and you will be lonesome
Be lonesome and you will be free
Live a lie and you will live to regret it
That's what livin' is to me
That's what livin' is to me"
Jimmy Buffett


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: QuantumMeltdown]
    #5922375 - 08/01/06 04:32 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

To my knowledge, Micheal Moore has not officially endorsed the idea of government complicity in 9/11. He seems to be more big on the idea that it was incompetence, or that they were covering for the Saudis. And all Howard Dean has said on the matter is that he finds the theory "interesting." Even Noam Chomsky has distanced himself from the conspiracy theorists.


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Offlinep0ng
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: Silversoul]
    #5922473 - 08/01/06 05:05 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

that website (in 2nd post) says there is no proof of interviews.... here is an hour of interviews with the professionals and experts.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1375208054676470714&q=loose+change


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Co-President of http://www.FantomFitness.com


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OfflineViveka
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: Silversoul]
    #5925081 - 08/02/06 11:21 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

It can't explain why WTC7 was the first steel-frame building in history to completely collapse by fire alone, and at free-fall speed, no less.




Fire alone?

http://www.wtc7.net/docs/June2004WTC7_Page_16_cropped.jpg

You'll have to copy and paste that link or it goes somehere else for some reason.


Edited by Viveka (08/02/06 11:29 AM)


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: Viveka]
    #5925304 - 08/02/06 12:38 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Even with that corner damage, it doesn't explain the way it fell. If that weakened it enough to make it fall(not likely), it should have fallen on its side, not straight down.


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OfflineViveka
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Re: How 9/11 was set up by the US Government [Re: Silversoul]
    #5925366 - 08/02/06 01:00 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Even with that corner damage, it doesn't explain the way it fell.


And you base that on...what exactly?

Quote:

If that weakened it enough to make it fall(not likely)


And you know this is not likely...how?

Quote:

it should have fallen on its side, not straight down.




"Conspiracy sites like to bring up the 'Symmetric Collapse' of building 7 and that the building should have fallen over to the south. They show grainy, dark photos of debris piles which were taken well after 9/11 and a debris pile with a grayish, smoky image of building 7 in the background. They deceptively show the north side which was relatively free of damage. As if the Tower should have reached over to the other side of the building and damaged that side to.

Here is what the debris pile looked like just after 9/11


Eerily, the north face is on the debris pile as if a shroud were laid gently over the dead building. It fell over after the majority of the building fell. This indicates the south side of the building fell before the north. It's almost as if the buildings last words were "[This] did it!..".

And now comes the most important and telling fact in this photo. Note the west side (Right side in this photo) of the north face is pointing toward the east side (Left side of this photo) where the penthouse was. What caused this? It would not be unreasonable to expect the building to fall toward the path of least resistance. The path of least resistance in this case would be the hole in the back of the building and the hole left by the penthouse. Since the penthouse was on the east and the 20 story hole in the middle, that would make the east and middle the path of least resistance. The conspiracy sites agree with this theory but say it never happened. They say the fact that it didn't happen helps prove controlled demolition. But you see it happen here... What will they say now?

"But the building doesn't look like it fell over, it fell "In it's own foot print" you might ask. That's because it is impossible for a 47 story steel building to fall over like that. It's not a small steel reinforced concrete building like the ones shown as *Examples* of buildings which fell over. Building 7 is more like the towers, made up of many pieces put together. It's not so much as a solid block as those steel reinforced concrete buildings.

This evidence supports the NIST contention that the building collapse progressed from the penthouse out as columns weakened by the fires. The slow sinking of the penthouses, indicating the internal collapse of the building behind the visible north wall, took 8.2 seconds according to a NIST preliminary report. Seismograph trace of the collapse of WTC 7 indicates that parts of the building were hitting the ground for 18 seconds. This means the collapse took at least 18 seconds, of which only the last approximately 15 seconds are visible in videos: 8 seconds for the penthouses and 7 seconds for the north wall to come down.



In the following image the east penthouse falls...


Now the west penthouse falls...


To put it simply, the building DID fall over backward and to the south-east. Just not like a steel reinforced concrete building would. Another telling photo is this one taken closer to the event date.



Note just past building 7 is a small amount of debris on the white building behind it. That building is to the north east corner of building 7. Note about 1/3rd of the east side of the building falling to the north in the photo below.



This suggests the building was split by the penthouse collapses most of the way down. One section went to the south-east while a smaller section went to the north. It wasn't that symmetrical.

Below are snapshots from a video taken from the northeast of Building 7 just as it collapses. Note that it has just begun to collapse and it is already tilting to the south.



Half way through and it's still tilted to the south. Note the west side of the building has come away from the west face around what used to be the 43rd floor. Light can be seen through the east face windows



Note the angle to the south has increased and so has the space between the west face and the rest of the building. The west face later lays on the Verizon building to the west. While it looks like it's about to hit the ground, it's still almost as high as the white building to the right. That makes it about 20 stories.



If the majority of the building fell to the south-east based on the resulting debris locations, as conspiracy theorist point out, it is evidence for a normal collapse by fire. I think they're right."

http://www.debunking911.com/pull.htm


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