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Invisibleivi
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Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,089
Drug classification rethink urged
    #5918901 - 07/31/06 03:29 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)
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Drug classification rethink urged
By Pallab Ghosh, Science correspondent, BBC News

The designation of drugs in classes A, B and C should be replaced with one more closely reflecting the harm they cause, a committee of MPs has said.

The Science Select Committee said the present system was based on historical assumptions, not scientific assessment.

BBC News has seen details of a system devised by government advisers which was considered by former Home Secretary Charles Clarke but is now on hold.

It rates some illegal drugs as less harmful than alcohol and tobacco.


Suggested rating of drugs according to harm done

The new system was based on the first scientific assessment of 20 legal and illegal stimulants used in contemporary Britain.

Alcohol was rated the fifth most harmful drug, ahead of some current class A drugs, while tobacco was listed as ninth. Cannabis, currently rated a class C drug, was below both those legal stimulants at 11th.

The MPs said including alcohol and tobacco in the classification would give the public "a better sense of the relative harms involved".

They also denounced the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs - which provides scientific guidance to the government - for "dereliction of duty" in failing to alert ministers of "serious flaws" in the rating system.

Phil Willis, who chairs the committee, said the current classifications were "riddled with anomalies" and "clearly not fit for purpose".

Controlled drugs are currently put into alphabetical categories, reflecting the level of penalties offences such as possession and dealing can attract.

Class A, which is the highest category, contains substances such as heroin, cocaine, ecstasy and magic mushrooms.

Class B includes speed and barbiturates. Cannabis and some tranquilisers are graded as class C substances.

Systematic

Mr Willis said the only way to get "an accurate and up to date classification system" was to "remove the link with penalties and just focus on harm", adding that this meant social consequences as well as harm to the user.

He went on: "It's time to bring in a more systematic and scientific approach to drug classification - how can we get the message across to young people if what we are saying is not based on evidence?"

Speaking on BBC Radio 4's Today programme, he said: "In 1971 when the classification system was launched, that was right for the time.

"What we've had is a huge societal change over that period and what we've seen is that putting a drug into Class A does not stop people using it at all."

Alcohol

The alternative system was prepared by Professor David Nutt, a senior member of the Committee that advises the government on drug classification, and Professor Colin Blakemore - chief Executive of the Medical Research Council.

There are three class A drugs in the top five of the system, as well as one Class B and alcohol.

Tobacco is listed as the ninth most harmful drug and cannabis, a class C drug, comes in at number 11.

Perhaps most surprising is the presence of two Class A drugs - ecstasy and LSD - in the bottom six.

This places them well below tobacco and alcohol and a number of class B and C drugs.

Professor Blakemore told BBC News alcohol and tobacco were included in the ranking to give a "calibration of what these levels of harm mean".

He added: "That's not to say there's any argument that alcohol should be banned but it does give one a feel for the relative harm".


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/5230006.stm#drugs


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OfflineExplosiveMango
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Re: Drug classification rethink urged [Re: ivi]
    #5918960 - 07/31/06 03:47 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

The idea is a step in the right direction.

The specifics look a little odd, what with pot being rated more dangerous than 4-MTA (a drug that causes serotonin syndrome with any 'active' dose) and E (and solvents???)

And where is PCP? DXM?

But whatever... better idea than the random system they have now.


--------------------
Know your self.
Know your substance.
Know your source.

The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.


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OfflineCapless
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Re: Drug classification rethink urged [Re: ExplosiveMango]
    #5919034 - 07/31/06 04:14 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

You said class B contains Cannabis, or at least the artical seems to say so. When in fact on the chart Cannabis is listesd as a Class C drug. Correct me if I'm wrong though.


--------------------
http://www.toolband.com/
"... This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality.
Embrace this moment. Remember, We are eternal.
all this pain is an illusion...."


Edited by Capless (07/31/06 04:15 PM)


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OfflineFightForPeace420
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Re: Drug classification rethink urged [Re: ExplosiveMango]
    #5919035 - 07/31/06 04:15 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

pot should be way lower and by far the lowest


--------------------
Our politicians and lawmakers have their heads so far up their asses that when you look at them it seems as if their heads are on perfectly normal. But alas, do not be fooled by their trickery!... all credit of this wonderful statement goes to DNKYD


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OfflinePlaceholder
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Re: Drug classification rethink urged [Re: ExplosiveMango]
    #5919452 - 07/31/06 06:36 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

How can solvents be safer than cannabis?


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OfflineMustNotBe
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Re: Drug classification rethink urged [Re: Placeholder]
    #5920126 - 07/31/06 09:56 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Some people have bad reactions to MJ, such as me. But I didnt see mushrooms on there? But I'd be more happy with this system. But even that system needs some work.


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Junkies United we stand , Devided we're sick as fuck.
-                  -                -
"Hallucinations are something heroin users are not at all accustomed to," said Const. Conor King, Victoria police drug expert. "They react like you or I would react if we took Aspirin and all of a sudden the TV got up and started walking across the room."
-                  -                -
Make drugs legal, or alcohol and tobacco illegal. Either way it's more fair.


Edited by MustNotBe (07/31/06 09:59 PM)


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OfflineMustNotBe
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Re: Drug classification rethink urged [Re: MustNotBe]
    #5920226 - 07/31/06 10:22 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

to bad its for the UK


--------------------
Junkies United we stand , Devided we're sick as fuck.
-                  -                -
"Hallucinations are something heroin users are not at all accustomed to," said Const. Conor King, Victoria police drug expert. "They react like you or I would react if we took Aspirin and all of a sudden the TV got up and started walking across the room."
-                  -                -
Make drugs legal, or alcohol and tobacco illegal. Either way it's more fair.


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Offlinejohnjohnandjamal
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Re: Drug classification rethink urged [Re: MustNotBe]
    #5920279 - 07/31/06 10:36 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Who decides what the "harm" of a substance is. It all seems like subjective bullshit to me. Anabolic steroids safer than cannabis? You have to be kidding me.


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: Drug classification rethink urged [Re: johnjohnandjamal]
    #5920310 - 07/31/06 10:48 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Anabolics are relatively safe.


--------------------
HELP!!!!!!!!!


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Drug classification rethink urged [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5921045 - 08/01/06 04:58 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

That new system will never fly. Nutt must have used some nutty statistics or his math sucks.

Like WTF is "street methadone"? That's a nonsensical term for something that doesn't exist. Alcohol more dangerous than tobacco? Stupid. LSD and cannabis shouldn't even be on the chart.

They need to actually talk to some drug users. I think most of those terms are just names and numbers to them. Anyone can see that they have only a little bit more of a clue than the proponents of the old system.


-FF


--------------------
It drinks the alcohol and abstains from the weed or else it gets the hose again. -Chemy

The difference between the substances doesn't matter. This is a war on consciousness, on our right to the very essence of what we are. With no control over that, we have no need to speak of freedom or a free society. -fireseed

"If we are going to have a war on marijuana, the least we can do is pull the sick and the dying off the battlefield." -Neal Levine (MPP)

I find the whole "my drug should be legal but yours should be illegal" mindset disgusting and hypocritical. It's what George Bush and company do when they drink a cocktail and debate the best way to imprison marijuana users. -Diploid


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OfflineCapless
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Re: Drug classification rethink urged [Re: fastfred]
    #5921164 - 08/01/06 06:25 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Because drug users can tell you exactly how dangerous drugs are to their own body, am I rite? lololol

No, but in a serious manner, you have to imagine that pretty much anybody who is using any drug on that list will most likely be choosingly oblivious to the consequences it has on their body. Take me for example, I smoke weed good bit and I hack and cough because of how much I smoke. I know the hacking an caughing is a symptom of smoking, but I usually ignore the effect and essentually ignore any possibility that a side-effect of a greater degree is at works. Hell ask any smoker today if they know what their cigarrett will do to them and they might tell you cancer, they might say it makes me them happy. Smokers are a primo example of why asking a drug user about the seriousness of their drug of choice is an inaccurate idea.


--------------------
http://www.toolband.com/
"... This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality.
Embrace this moment. Remember, We are eternal.
all this pain is an illusion...."


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Drug classification rethink urged [Re: Capless]
    #5921254 - 08/01/06 08:37 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Well I didn't mean that they should ask drug users what drugs are good and then give them bonus points. But anyone that's part of the counterculture can tell you a lot better what drugs have bad effects.

For example I can tell you for certain that meth should be number one or two. And I can also tell you how addictive heroin is (seen some friends go down hill) and a dozen other reasons why it should be number one or two. Even a brief look a police reports would also tell you the same thing. Those two drugs are ones that people kill and steal for. No other two drugs (combined even) will come close to either of those two.

I have no idea how they came up with their numbers, but they're obviously wrong on a number of points.


-FF


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Drug classification rethink urged [Re: fastfred]
    #5921306 - 08/01/06 09:25 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

> Those two drugs are ones that people kill and steal for.

Only because the price for the drugs is artificially inflated by the black market. If the drugs were legal, the price would be minimal, and people would no longer need to kill or steal for money to pay for their habit.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflineExplosiveMango
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Re: Drug classification rethink urged [Re: Capless]
    #5921314 - 08/01/06 09:28 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Capless said:
Because drug users can tell you exactly how dangerous drugs are to their own body, am I rite? lololol

No, but in a serious manner, you have to imagine that pretty much anybody who is using any drug on that list will most likely be choosingly oblivious to the consequences it has on their body. Take me for example, I smoke weed good bit and I hack and cough because of how much I smoke. I know the hacking an caughing is a symptom of smoking, but I usually ignore the effect and essentually ignore any possibility that a side-effect of a greater degree is at works. Hell ask any smoker today if they know what their cigarrett will do to them and they might tell you cancer, they might say it makes me them happy. Smokers are a primo example of why asking a drug user about the seriousness of their drug of choice is an inaccurate idea.




Ummmm.... gotta say man, there are lots of drug users who are not like that at all, and who keep very good tabs on the physical and mental effects of the drugs they use.

Intelligent/knowledgeable minds in the field of experience of a particular drug are probably PRIME candidates for accurate information.


--------------------
Know your self.
Know your substance.
Know your source.

The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.


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OfflineExplosiveMango
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Re: Drug classification rethink urged [Re: Seuss]
    #5921341 - 08/01/06 09:45 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> Those two drugs are ones that people kill and steal for.

Only because the price for the drugs is artificially inflated by the black market. If the drugs were legal, the price would be minimal, and people would no longer need to kill or steal for money to pay for their habit.




It's amazing how many past examples of oppression humans can recognize while remaining completely ignorant to those blaring in the present.



Picture the drug situation in terms of drugs being a sub-cultural trait which flows between social groups. The disease like qualities of drug addiction have caused this social trait to absorb increasingly into a particular group as two main factors increase:

-Exposure to the addictive nature of the drug
-In-exposure to a 'cure' for the drug


Since particular groups of immigrants have historically entered the United States into isolated/economically limited communities there have been many occasions on which drug addiction was most prevalent in particular ethnic groups.

A perfect way to excuse the hate you wish to pass onto a particular person, without ever admitting you have it, is to claim hate for something he does or owns.

And now there've been generations, and white people have taken up drugs as throughly as any other group, and science has learned about these drugs... and yet, these people don't want to let go of that hate, that they so tactfully excused so long ago...


--------------------
Know your self.
Know your substance.
Know your source.

The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.


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OfflinePsiloptile
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Re: Drug classification rethink urged [Re: fastfred]
    #5921732 - 08/01/06 12:26 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

fastfred said:
Alcohol more dangerous than tobacco? Stupid.
-FF



Drunk Driving, Alcahol Poisoning, black-outs.. Cigarettes will take a very long time to kill you, while a night of heavy drinking might be all it takes to do you in. Remember all those stories about people turning 21, playing drinking games and punching out?


--------------------
Everything I write is false.. I made it up.. Or did I? Yep.. I did.



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OfflineCapless
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Re: Drug classification rethink urged [Re: Psiloptile]
    #5921817 - 08/01/06 12:52 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Fastfred I just can't agree with you.

You seem to use your personal experience for judgement in this situation. While your personal life may have had its share of ups and downs with friends over certain drugs, that does not make those forementioned drugs as horrible as you say they are. Think of societies as a whole and look at the harm those drugs do. You'd probably be suprised to find out that the drugs on that list are close to correct. I'd say Alcohol belongs up there. It's a legal substance that carries the ability to really fuck up some one's life just as much as any other drug.


--------------------
http://www.toolband.com/
"... This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality.
Embrace this moment. Remember, We are eternal.
all this pain is an illusion...."


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OfflinePsiloptile
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Re: Drug classification rethink urged [Re: Capless]
    #5922127 - 08/01/06 02:59 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

hehe.. fastfred IS Chuck Norris


--------------------
Everything I write is false.. I made it up.. Or did I? Yep.. I did.



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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Drug classification rethink urged [Re: Psiloptile]
    #5922203 - 08/01/06 03:21 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Psiloptile said:
hehe.. fastfred IS Chuck Norris





How did you know? Who told you?


-FF


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OfflineBGC
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Re: Drug classification rethink urged [Re: fastfred]
    #5922238 - 08/01/06 03:31 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

so is pot decriminalized/legalized yet? it needs to be...


--------------------
"Education is an admirable thing."
Oscar Wilde (1854-1900)

"Behold, the bush burned with fire."
Exodus III. 2.

"Earth laughs in flowers."
Hamatreya

"Necessity hath no law."
Speech 1664


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OfflineCptnGarden
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Re: Drug classification rethink urged [Re: Psiloptile]
    #5923223 - 08/01/06 09:15 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Psiloptile said:
Quote:

fastfred said:
Alcohol more dangerous than tobacco? Stupid.
-FF



Drunk Driving, Alcahol Poisoning, black-outs.. Cigarettes will take a very long time to kill you, while a night of heavy drinking might be all it takes to do you in. Remember all those stories about people turning 21, playing drinking games and punching out?




tobacco isnt related to cancer at all. the other 599 additives in ciggarettes are. nicotine alone is a poison, but i dont think its use is deadly, it would be same for smoking a non lethal dose of datura.
they are in the same family by the way.

alcohol on the other hand, wow.

even cigarettes with their corporation stewed chemical cocktails dont compete with alcohol.

psiloptile hit the nail on the head.


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OfflinePhishe
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Re: Drug classification rethink urged [Re: CptnGarden]
    #5923883 - 08/02/06 12:05 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I dont understand how Weed is more harmful than LSD which is more harmful than E?

Can anyone explain this logic. It is a positive article though, so... :smile:!


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Invisibledutchmushroom
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Re: Drug classification rethink urged [Re: Phishe]
    #5924332 - 08/02/06 03:11 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

thats total bullshit theres no way in hell that anabolic steriods and lsd r safer then weed i have smoke 2 ounces of weed by myself in the space of two days and it was cronic and that was about 8 years ago when i was 13 now you can't say that if i did that much acid that i wouldint b perminently brain dead!


--------------------
"Comes a time when the blind man takes your hand says: don't you see? Gotta make it some how, on the dreams you still believe, Don't give it up, you've got an empty cup, only love can fill, only love can fill" < Grateful Dead!

The bus came by and I got on, and thats when it all began


GROWLIGHT KIT, 250w HPS Digital ballast, + Enhanced Spectrum bulb and Reflector Sale Or Trade!
     


Edited by dutchmushroom (08/02/06 03:13 AM)


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Offlinezeegos
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Re: Drug classification rethink urged [Re: dutchmushroom]
    #5924788 - 08/02/06 09:08 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

This should have been rethought a long time ago.


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Offlinesvasanvedana
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Re: Drug classification rethink urged [Re: zeegos]
    #5926500 - 08/02/06 07:13 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Psychedelics don't cause physical damage to the body, but they can completely fry some peoples brains, depending on what kind of power they tap into, and whether or not they are able to handle it. LSD is the lazy man's kundalini channeling. If the 60s movement of peace and love and mental expansion didn't fail, but kept growing in strength till now, I can't see this country, as it is, surviving. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing.....but I can't blame The Man for considering acid and to a lesser extent shrooms, cactus and RCs to be the most dangerous drugs, and their advocates like Leary the most dangerous men, in existence. The matrix must be destroyed!


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: Drug classification rethink urged [Re: dutchmushroom]
    #5926553 - 08/02/06 07:26 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

dutchmushroom said:
thats total bullshit theres no way in hell that anabolic steriods and lsd r safer then weed i have smoke 2 ounces of weed by myself in the space of two days and it was cronic and that was about 8 years ago when i was 13 now you can't say that if i did that much acid that i wouldint b perminently brain dead!




Cannabis raises estrogen levels and anabolics raise testosterone levels

:shrug:


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Offlinejohnjohnandjamal
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Re: Drug classification rethink urged [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5927679 - 08/03/06 02:09 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Anabolics are by no means safe. Shall I list off a few side effects?

Male pattern balding (in both men and women)
Frequent and continuous headaches
Yellow staining of the eyes
Bad breath
Extreme mood swings
Personality changes
Panic and anxiety
Irratibility
Agressive behavior
Depression
Insomnia
Fatigue
Puffy face
Acne
Increased facial hair growth
Sore tongue
Horse voice (deeper voice in women)
Gynoclamastia (breast developement in men)
Swollen skin around nipple
Liver tumors
Liver disease
Complete liver failure
Stmach pains
Vomiting
Diarhea
Nausea
Prostate enlargement
Prostate cancer
Yellowing of the skin
Skin rashes
Increased risk of tendon and ligament injury
Muscle cramps
Longer recovery from injury
Swelling of the ankle and lower leg
Increased risk of heart disease
Heart attack
Stroke
High blood pressure
Increase in bad cholesterol (LDL)
Decrease in good cholesterol (HDL)
Stomach bloated feeling
Blood vomiting
Kidney stones
Kidney disease
Kidney failure
Frequent urination
Painful urination
Shrunken testicles
Sterility
Impotence
Frequent and painful erections
Increase estrogen production
Blood poisoning from injection site
High risk of infection and blood carried diseases at injection site
Tender and swollen injection site
Stunted bone growth
Decrease in bone density
Bone/joint pain
Brain tumors
Increased risk of cancer


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Drug classification rethink urged [Re: johnjohnandjamal]
    #5927927 - 08/03/06 07:12 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

That's all problems with abuse. Properly used steriods are highly effective and completely safe.


-FF


--------------------
It drinks the alcohol and abstains from the weed or else it gets the hose again. -Chemy

The difference between the substances doesn't matter. This is a war on consciousness, on our right to the very essence of what we are. With no control over that, we have no need to speak of freedom or a free society. -fireseed

"If we are going to have a war on marijuana, the least we can do is pull the sick and the dying off the battlefield." -Neal Levine (MPP)

I find the whole "my drug should be legal but yours should be illegal" mindset disgusting and hypocritical. It's what George Bush and company do when they drink a cocktail and debate the best way to imprison marijuana users. -Diploid


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: Drug classification rethink urged [Re: fastfred]
    #5928271 - 08/03/06 11:00 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

fastfred said:
That's all problems with abuse. Properly used steriods are highly effective and completely safe.


-FF




--------------------
HELP!!!!!!!!!


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OfflineExplosiveMango
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Re: Drug classification rethink urged [Re: fastfred]
    #5928493 - 08/03/06 12:45 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

fastfred said:
That's all problems with abuse. Properly used steriods are highly effective and completely safe.


-FF




Ahhh but how many of these drugs will produce 'harm' when used responsibly?

Even crack cocaine would pose little health risk if done only once annually, in a small dose.

I would say harm can only be caused by drug abuse... and in fact that would be how I defined drug abuse- causing harm with a drug.

And this is why the numbers above the substances are next to useless.


--------------------
Know your self.
Know your substance.
Know your source.

The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: Drug classification rethink urged [Re: ExplosiveMango]
    #5928516 - 08/03/06 12:54 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

ExplosiveMango said:
Quote:

fastfred said:
That's all problems with abuse. Properly used steriods are highly effective and completely safe.


-FF




Ahhh but how many of these drugs will produce 'harm' when used responsibly?

Even crack cocaine would pose little health risk if done only once annually, in a small dose.

I would say harm can only be caused by drug abuse... and in fact that would be how I defined drug abuse- causing harm with a drug.

And this is why the numbers above the substances are next to useless.




Anabolics aren't addictive like crack cocaine.


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