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Left Nut City
Stranger

Registered: 03/27/01
Posts: 2,360
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Question about inoculating jars..
#5918755 - 07/31/06 02:47 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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I bought pre-sterilized jars and medium from a vendor. The jars came with no holes in the lid, so what is the best way to inoculate them without contaminating them??
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Tippinthru
contented

Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 1,131
Loc: "The Garden"...
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Re: Question about inoculating jars.. [Re: Left Nut City]
#5918877 - 07/31/06 03:20 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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I would ask the vendor, that question. If the vendor suggests teleportation? I would shop elsewhere, in the future.
-------------------- Perfection is attained by slow degrees; it requires the hand of time... [
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: Question about inoculating jars.. [Re: Tippinthru]
#5918889 - 07/31/06 03:24 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Hmm... teleportation. Maybe ask shroom wizard. They don't call them "magic mushrooms" for nothing.
-FF
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Left Nut City
Stranger

Registered: 03/27/01
Posts: 2,360
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Re: Question about inoculating jars.. [Re: fastfred]
#5918916 - 07/31/06 03:34 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yeah, i sent an email to the vendor just a bit ago, still waiting a response.
My initial idea is this:
Lysol the room good, wash hands, bleach the end of a drill bit, drill a hole, then poly fill and inoculate.
Anyone see a problem with this??
PS These are rye jars, BTW.
Edited by Left Nut City (07/31/06 03:35 PM)
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Tippinthru
contented

Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 1,131
Loc: "The Garden"...
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Re: Question about inoculating jars.. [Re: Left Nut City]
#5918919 - 07/31/06 03:34 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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I did not mean to sound like a smart ass. Which vendor sells such things?
A jar with no inoculation provision, much less a gas exchange provision. Is sort of like Mycobag, without a filter patch. 
It isn't going to do well, no matter what.
-------------------- Perfection is attained by slow degrees; it requires the hand of time... [
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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Re: Question about inoculating jars.. [Re: Tippinthru]
#5918980 - 07/31/06 03:54 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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correct.
and with grain, there is no dry verm layer as a backup.
a grain jar sterlized and sealed is stupid.
you have two options really:
laminar flow hood still air glove box
both will require you move quick and clean though, as always. good luck with that.
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: Question about inoculating jars.. [Re: monstermitch]
#5919040 - 07/31/06 04:17 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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This is about the 10th post by people feeling cheated by that vendor and their foolish products. When is the shroomery going to do something about it?
-FF
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creamcorn
mad scientist


Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 2,962
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Re: Question about inoculating jars.. [Re: fastfred]
#5919043 - 07/31/06 04:19 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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if its the vendor im thinking of, i recall there being some fine print that holes are punched on request. always thought it sort of silly, not sure what they expect the people who don't request it to do...
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Tippinthru
contented

Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 1,131
Loc: "The Garden"...
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Re: Question about inoculating jars.. [Re: Left Nut City]
#5919053 - 07/31/06 04:21 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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If you have a VERY SHARP nail type punch, and some micropore tape.
In a cleaned environment, you could sanitize the lids, and punch.
Cut 4 one inch squares of micropore tape, then lay them in a shallow saucer of 90% rubbing alcohol, to sanitize them.
Then, wrap the punch in an alcohol soaked paper towel.
Place the punch against the sanitized lid, still wrapped with the alcohol soaked paper towel, so the towel and punch are both in contact with the lid. Tap punch with a hammer, until it pierces the lid.
Hold it in place, and with your other hand, grasp the micropore tape.
The, as you pull the punch out, quickly slide the tape in place over the hole.
I would do that on opposing sides of the lid, so you have two holes.
Once done, I would place the other 2 pieces of tape, over the existing tape.
Allow the tape to dry, then inoculate through 1 hole, then double tape that hole over again.
I wonder how this vendor PC'ed a sealed jar? Unless they PC'ed it with a loose lid. Then, tightened the lid, as they removed it from the PC.
If they did tighten the lid, while the jar was warm/hot.
It will have formed a vacuum, in it.
Which sadly means, when you pierce the lid, it will suck in air.
That is NOT a good thing. The alcohol soaked paper towel would provide some protection. But, nowhere near optimal.
Sad state of affairs, here.
-------------------- Perfection is attained by slow degrees; it requires the hand of time... [
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: Question about inoculating jars.. [Re: Tippinthru]
#5919060 - 07/31/06 04:23 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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> I wonder how this vendor PC'ed a sealed jar?
Sealed jars will PC just fine. Except for the vacuum problem you noted.
I guess I should mention that's jars that have liquids or a high moisture content. Dry jars might implode.
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rod
Ψ


Registered: 06/29/05
Posts: 3,727
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Re: Question about inoculating jars.. [Re: Left Nut City]
#5919063 - 07/31/06 04:25 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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I,ve seen this question asked before, I dont remember what the people said would be the best way. Good luck,
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Left Nut City
Stranger

Registered: 03/27/01
Posts: 2,360
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Re: Question about inoculating jars.. [Re: rod]
#5919652 - 07/31/06 07:34 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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I was just wondering if in worst case scenario I could remove the lid (the lid seal is definitely on tight, leading me to believe they were PC'ed with the lid on or tightened after PC'ing) punch holes in and do the other proper protocol, PC it all over again??
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tonyperez420
Shaman Rasta

Registered: 11/03/04
Posts: 1,234
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
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Re: Question about inoculating jars.. [Re: Left Nut City]
#5919677 - 07/31/06 07:42 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Left Nut City said: I bought pre-sterilized jars and medium from a vendor. The jars came with no holes in the lid, so what is the best way to inoculate them without contaminating them??
where did you bye the jar from?
whatever vendor it is, report it in sponsor forum
I had the same thing happen to me with spores101
live and learn
Edited by tonyperez420 (07/31/06 07:44 PM)
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Left Nut City
Stranger

Registered: 03/27/01
Posts: 2,360
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Re: Question about inoculating jars.. [Re: tonyperez420]
#5919683 - 07/31/06 07:44 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Following the guidelines, I am going to try to make this work. If it fails, I will ask to be compensated by the vendor. If he is unwilling to make it right then I will go ahead and say who it was and report him.
I will make evcery effort to do this as civil as possible.
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SpookerShroom
Shroomerite
Registered: 06/12/06
Posts: 244
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Re: Question about inoculating jars.. [Re: Left Nut City]
#5919902 - 07/31/06 08:49 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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I agree with the route your taking.
I was wondering the same thing though when I read that they ship jars with no holes, but they list the reason is because they want them to be 100% sterile when they get to you. There is a note though that if you request holes they will punch them for you.
Only problem is there is most likely a vacuum in those jars and 1. if you use the actual needle of your innoc syringe(not reccom.) then it will suck a bit more of your solution than you would like into the jar...and 2. if you use a nail, the jar is going to suck in the air around it, so make sure the entire area surounding the jar is good and sterile, like the above posts say.
btw, how long did it take you to recieve your order from the time you placed it?
good luck
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Left Nut City
Stranger

Registered: 03/27/01
Posts: 2,360
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Re: Question about inoculating jars.. [Re: SpookerShroom]
#5919987 - 07/31/06 09:15 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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I just went ahead and drilled a hole in the center of each jar to poly-fill and re-PC. Man, there was some vacuum action going on there!
They are in the PC now.
I received the package in like 2-3 days, (don't remember exact day I ordered).
However, they also sent a USPS tracking code so you can see where the package has been and where, which was really cool.
I hope re-PC'ing isn't going to weaken the rye any.
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Left Nut City
Stranger

Registered: 03/27/01
Posts: 2,360
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Re: Question about inoculating jars.. [Re: Left Nut City]
#5923467 - 08/01/06 10:20 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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:UPDATE:
I definitely felt the need to re-PC the jars since I want no chance of contamination. I actually asked the vendor to punch holes in the lid order. Not only did he not punch holes but did not deliver the tape and tyvek filters as promised.
Edited by Left Nut City (08/03/06 01:32 PM)
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Omnicracker
Crusted Trolltivator

Registered: 09/18/05
Posts: 1,421
Loc: Wal-Merica
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Re: Question about inoculating jars.. [Re: Tippinthru]
#5923503 - 08/01/06 10:29 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tippinthru said: I wonder how this vendor PC'ed a sealed jar?
ya'll are assuming that the vendor actually PCed the jars... that sounds a little more like this vendor's style who ever that is...
Edited by Omnicracker (08/01/06 10:30 PM)
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: Question about inoculating jars.. [Re: Omnicracker]
#5924492 - 08/02/06 05:45 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Cubenisseur
Mad Props


Registered: 12/04/05
Posts: 1,392
Loc: Indian Land
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
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Re: Question about inoculating jars.. [Re: fastfred]
#5924689 - 08/02/06 08:05 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Having to punch holes and PC your "pre sterilized jars" sure seems to defeat the purpose of buying the in the first place....
Seems a lesson learned for anyone who doesn't want to make thier own.
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Dr_Mcgillicuddy
Stranger

Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 491
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
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Re: Question about inoculating jars.. [Re: Cubenisseur]
#5924803 - 08/02/06 09:15 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Canning jars when used for there true purpose (Preserving food) get PCed with the lid on not completely sealed then on cooling they become vaccumed shut if you put a Canning jar with food in it sealed very tight it would explode
It sounds like the Vendor PCed your rye as if it was some Beans from the garden
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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It shouldn't explode if you do it right. Jars will sometimes crack, but exploding jars is a myth IMO/IME.
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Left Nut City
Stranger

Registered: 03/27/01
Posts: 2,360
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Re: Question about inoculating jars.. [Re: fastfred]
#5928601 - 08/03/06 01:30 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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MediumMania has apologized and has promised to compensate me. I will let you know if they do. If so compensated, then they are alright in my book.
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BigBrassBed
Stranger
Registered: 06/26/06
Posts: 33
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
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Re: Question about inoculating jars.. [Re: Left Nut City]
#5953407 - 08/11/06 10:14 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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I also just recieved jars with no holes from medium mania. I'm not really sure what to do with them. I got the "tyvek filter patches" (from usps priority mail envelopes......" and the micropore tape and coffee filters. I have inocculated 2 of the 6 jars that I recieved in a laminar flow hood under very sterile conditions. I am keeping the others, untouched, but incubated as controls. I am lucky to have access to such equipment. Many other people are not as lucky. The 'vaccum' effect is indeed a very strong source of potential contaminants, even in sterile conditions.
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Left Nut City
Stranger

Registered: 03/27/01
Posts: 2,360
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Re: Question about inoculating jars.. [Re: BigBrassBed]
#5953417 - 08/11/06 10:18 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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The people at Medium Mania offered to send me more bags of compost to compensate me, yet I have not received them.
I am certain I am being gaffed off now.
:-(
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BigBrassBed
Stranger
Registered: 06/26/06
Posts: 33
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
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Re: Question about inoculating jars.. [Re: Left Nut City]
#5954419 - 08/11/06 04:42 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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hm. great to know. how do people like this get a position as a board sponsor?
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Anonymous
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tonyperez420
Shaman Rasta

Registered: 11/03/04
Posts: 1,234
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
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Re: Question about inoculating jars.. [Re: ]
#5954489 - 08/11/06 05:07 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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that fucken sucks
TAKE IT TO THE SPONSORS FORUM
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Velocity92C
Stranger
Registered: 07/22/06
Posts: 170
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
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Re: Question about inoculating jars.. [Re: tonyperez420]
#5954497 - 08/11/06 05:10 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Before I started making my own jars, I ordered 6 from Medium Mania and they also came with no holes poked in the lids. I sterilized an area, sterlilized a nail and punched 4 holes in each jar. Inoculated, and sterilized a piece of foil and covered it. That was a week or so ago, and every jar's over 40% colonized already. No contams whatsoever. Didn't take any super precautions, just made sure my area and utensils were clean. The only sterilization the foil got was lysol/alcohol wiped.
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outlawimmortal
the originaloutlaw

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 158
Last seen: 14 years, 25 days
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Re: Question about inoculating jars.. [Re: tonyperez420]
#5954519 - 08/11/06 05:22 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
tonyperez420 said: that fucken sucks
TAKE IT TO THE SPONSORS FORUM
warn the people! they have a right to know!
but seriously, the shroomerys reputation could be severely damaged if these rogue sponsors keep ripping off decent people.
the shroomery doesn't seem to see the big picture.
-------------------- ...i just got thrown out of a bakery for asking if they sold lambs bread
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Tippinthru
contented

Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 1,131
Loc: "The Garden"...
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Re: Question about inoculating jars.. [Re: outlawimmortal]
#5954602 - 08/11/06 06:04 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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The FAQ section of the vendors site clearly states
"We ship our jars completely sealed, to guarantee that they will reach you in a fresh, sterile, and usuable condition. If you would like us to punch holes for you, simply let let us know. "
This should be stated CLEARLY on the jar ordering page.
I would guess they sterilize jars sealed for STORAGE purposes. Since, a sealed jar would keep for a very long period. In effect the content is "canned", and preserved by vacuum.
If the lid had an injection port, and filter patch. it would not store for long periods, because of gas exchange through the filter patch. In other words, the content would begin to dry out.
A jar containing a vacuum is problematical.
Because, when you pierce the lid, the vacuum will suck in air. Unless the lid is pierced in front of a flow-hood. Or, in a sanitized glove box.
Odds are very high, the jar will suck in airborne contaminates, when the lid is pierced.
There is a simple way around the problem. But, it would add a little labor, and a few cents in costs.
-------------------- Perfection is attained by slow degrees; it requires the hand of time... [
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