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ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111! Registered: 01/15/05 Posts: 15,427 Last seen: 6 years, 8 months |
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Now, this will be a lot of quoting, but I will give cliff notes at the end of every quoted paragraph for those of you with severe ADD/laziness.
first, we start with a little history regarding the Bush administration, and its involvement in the amazing leap of prescribed, harmful drugs to children in the last 10 years. Quote: basically here, Bush created and Organization called the New Freedom Committee (already scared?) in 2002, with the seemingly righteous goal of improving mental health standards. More and more, the bill becomes geared towards children.... still not a big deal right? Quote: So here, the NFC becomes a little more serious about psychologically screening every child. Then they state that they will use a set of prescribing guidlines set forth by a group called TMAP (Texas Medication Algorithm Project). TMAP was comprised of nothing more than representatives of the major Pharmaceutical companies. So the people who were setting the standards for prescribing children drugs, were the very people making these drugs.... CONFLICT OF INTEREST? read on..... Quote: So, once TMAP was approved, it was required to be followed by all Texas institutions, this includes state health care, juvenile institutions, prisons and psych wards. Amazingly, these mandatory guidelines (oxymoron a bit?) were all the new drugs that all the companies represented in TMAP sold, which just so happens to be the most expensive drugs out there, even though generic substitutes would have been adequate. So basically, the state and now federal government, are shelling out our tax dollars for the most expensive designer drugs available, for people on medicare and state institutions. read on, it gets way better... Quote: here it shows the political and financial ties both President Bush's have had with the pharm corps: Bush Sr. used to work for Eli Lilly, a pharm corp that makes many of the drugs listed on TMAP, who then later appointed the CEO of Eli Lilly to the Homeland Security Council. Other big-wigs from pharm corporations were given ambassador positions and such. Quote: Here, it talks about how the government wishes to psychologically screen children 0-18 (yes 0, but it gets even better!). They even wish to start screening pregnant women, for PRE-NATAL screening of social-emotional disorders. Do you think that we are being geared towards a Brave New World here? But Psilocyberin, what about psychotherapy? Quote: wow, so even the AMA has stated that pill pushing is far more financially stimulating for "doctors" than actual psychotherapy. Keep in mind that much of the mental medication is subsidized by the government, while psychotherapy is rarely ever subsidized... so our own government, is even pushing for the medication, making therapy a "disincentive". Quote: So a new screening process was developed, called SOS, for suicide prevention, which claims to be a non-profit organization. It is a personal online survey which has been implemented and pushed in the military, schools, colleges and workplaces. Upon financial inspection, SOS is completely funded by pharm corporations, and is obviously a tax front to pour money into an institution created by them which aggressivly maintains their agenda of pushing as many expensive, useless drugs onto Americans. Quote: so if you were to take this SOS test, no matter what your answers were, you would be diagnosed with atleast mild depression, and advised to get on an SSRI. The test was created by Pfizer..... kind of odd, right? I mean, here is a pharmaceutical corporation claiming that EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN THE US HAS DEPRESSION AND NEEDS MEDICATION! Quote: The NFC, remember them?, reccommends that pregnant women take the SOS test, or similar screening, which amazingly ends up in the reccommendation of getting on an SSRI, even though the APA has published studies that found SSRI's to be extremely harmful to unborn children. Yet this goes on to this day. They also try to get you when you are old, they aren't going for one age group, they are going for EVERYBODY. Walk into any nursing home and see what percentage of elderly people are on SSRI's. Quote: Quote: so now, TMAP is having to reverse this juggernaut it created, and due to rampant overprescribing, it has financially depleted almost every single state healthcare program. Zyprexa cost 700$ for one months prescription in South Carolina, which was covered by medicare. Ever heard of "off-label use"? im about to get to that.... Quote: preschoolers usage of psychiatric drugs (mostly amphetamines and SSRI's) is up 49%. Do, I really need to go on? wake the fuck up people! everytime I come to this forum, i see a new thread about someone self-diagnosing themselves with ADHD and Depression. All of this has gone on without one shred of definitive evidence or study that can prove mental illness (or whatever the APA and big Pharma deem to be so) is CAUSED by chemical imbalances in the brain! Do you not see the trend? the agenda of these souless bastards who care not one bit about your health or wellbeing? In the last 10 years, psychotropic drug advertising has gone from nonexistence to being about every third commercial. I have no self-serving agenda in all of this. I truly care about this topic, and anyone who knows my posts, love it or hate it, knows that I have put many hours of selfless effort into making the shroomery more aware about the dangers and misconceptions regarding psychiatry and its drugs. All I want is for people to try, just for a few minutes, to take an alternative perspective regarding this epedimic and stop becoming the medium for which it thrives on, and start becoming a retarding force against its death grip it has on America's people. source: http://www.sierratimes.com/06/07/10/75_8_41_234_97438.htm
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Bilbo Baggins Registered: 04/06/04 Posts: 1,382 Loc: The Shire Last seen: 16 years, 10 months |
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Good post.
Atleast some people here will know what's up with these meds. I always knew that something was wrong when people start to substitute a healthy lifestyle, including exercise, with a magical pill. The sad thing to me is that many people just don't care to take an active approach at solving their problems with focusing and energy (both related, ofcourse). It is a regular thing for someone to watch 10-30 hours of TV a week rather than taking that time to meditate on things or do some intense exercise. There is something seriously wrong when even kids are having these problems. -------------------- Smoking my hobbit leaf... Please keep in mind that I am just a human being. Please read my posts carefully and interpret their meaning for yourself.
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I Tell You What! Registered: 06/24/05 Posts: 5,998 Last seen: 8 years, 9 months |
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concerning
"Other “specific medications” include the ADHD drugs, fondly known as “speed” to street addicts, such as Adderall, Dexedrine, Concerta, Ritalin and Strattera, and a garden variety of “downers,” like Valium, Xanax, Librium and sleeping pills." i don't know if that's fair though, speed is far more potent and recreational than the ADD drugs. those pills are indeed a fucking joke though. Oh my, you are slightly irritable and have had problems sleeping a few nights a week? Well, let's try some soma... err umm... I mean zoloft...... -------------------- ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
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Strangest ![]() Registered: 03/10/06 Posts: 59 Last seen: 14 years, 10 months |
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In my personal opinion, Adderall is stronger and much longer lasting than street amphetamines. I have absolutely no idea why anyone would prescribe Adderall to their children. The comedown is harsh, leaving you with extreme dysphoria, it is highly addictive, and is very taxing on the body.
As far as Zoloft is concerned, it has been shown in many clinical trials that St. John's Wort is equally, if not more, effective than antidepressants currently on the market for relieving symptoms of mild to moderate depression. Furthermore, the side effect profile is much more attractive in comparison. Also, it costs about a 1/10th as much. http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=19939 http://www.vanderbilt.edu/AnS/psychology/health_psychology/StJohn.htm http://www.vitacost.com/science/medstudies.cfm?litid=30 -------------------- This is an exercise in narcissistic paranoia. Edited by ZombieJesus (07/31/06 07:29 PM)
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Knomadic Registered: 06/17/03 Posts: 13,227 Loc: Pongyang, North |
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you want a war on drugs? lets stop pharmacutical distribution nation wide
![]() but seeing how people get their stuff about a month at a time, even a several day long boycott would not work...... hot damn, they ave us wired. -------------------- PEACE zippoz "in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption" "People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."
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tales of theinex Registered: 01/29/03 Posts: 8,670 Loc: Canoodia Last seen: 14 years, 1 month |
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I'm going with the simplest answer. Because they live in America....
-------------------- "What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks
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Error: divide byzero Registered: 04/27/01 Posts: 23,480 Loc: Caribbean Last seen: 2 months, 19 days |
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I have witnessed a real hyperactive child and know that they exist. A friend of the family adopted unwanted children. In this case, the child had been a "crack baby" that had been abandoned by his mother (along with his sister. Both were adopted together). He was the same age as my younger brother and they became friends.
I watched the kid one day run around a tree in the backyard hitting it with a wiffle ball bat for more than two hours, non-stop. This sort of behavior would only happen when he did not take medication (speed). It was night and day between when he was on medication and not. A true Dr.Jeckle & Mr. Hyde. This being said, I think most of the ADD diagnosis are incorrect with parents using medication and television to raise their children. However, just because 99+% of the cases are "bogus", that doesn't mean the disease doesn't exist. -------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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PsyChicken ![]() Registered: 02/04/03 Posts: 291 Loc: UK, Hellas Last seen: 10 months, 2 days |
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If you look at it from a business prespective. The companies are simply using marketing tactics to promote their products. The problem of course is on the process they fuck up people's lives.
My uncle is a doctor and he gets free trips all over Europe and gifts from pharmaceuticals because he prescribes a lot of them. However, I believe it all boils down to the western world's coulture. We'd rather pay for the easy solution rather then work hard for the right one.
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I Tell You What! Registered: 06/24/05 Posts: 5,998 Last seen: 8 years, 9 months |
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Quote: and much like only "ugly" people get plastic surgery (in fact, normal looking girls who think they are ugly, as the truely ugly wouldn't care and would have some sense of pride if you see what i think i mean) normal people become convinced that they are "depressed" or have ADD. It's pretty evil and all ecompassing. The media made us think we are so so so so ugly that eventually they realized they could use this conditioned ugliness to not only sell beauty products, but advanced medical procedures, botoxes, snips and cuts, nose jobs, etc. well, the media also detuned our ability to pay attention to invidiual tasks (because the media is constantly changing and being interupted with fast paced commercials) that they decided they could convince you that not being able to pay attention is a problem that warrants giving them more money. TV got your brain zonked out? Just take a ritalin and you'll be right as rain. and likewise, this society is responsible for our "depression" and yet they exploit this depression to push products. because depressoin in particular is a symptom of our society, nothing our society does can fix it. you have to go into counterculture. be it psychedelic therapy, training in meditation / martial arts / yoga / etc, going on a nature retreat, etc. of course, this nation could capitalize on psychedelic treatment and exploit meditation too...... but i'm not sure how they could rape them of substance. -------------------- ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
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Repeater Registered: 07/11/06 Posts: 977 Loc: Mycotopia.net |
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Quote: In my area ADHD meds are way more prevalent in high schookids than speed. Easier to get cheap and it lasts pretty long. Also a good appetite supressant. But i have adhd so its no use to me ha ha My children will never be on medicine unless they tell me it helps them noticeably and i will try herbal remedies before i pay 20 bucks a pill or whatever for some bullshit like this. I was on antidepressants and i felt no difference while on them... -------------------- LINKS http://www.shroomery.org/forums/
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refutation bias Registered: 10/21/02 Posts: 4,061 Last seen: 7 years, 3 months |
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Quote:Because it's not parents but doctors who prescribe the Adderall and only doctors can make the right decision when it comes to any issue dealing with health or psychology. Or at least this is what most people have been taught. Some people experience relief from their afflictions by simply visiting the doctor. They have been trained that going to the doctor and doig what he/she suggest is what one must do in order to be healthy and happy, so just being in the waiting room is therapeutic for a lot of people. Great post psilo.
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ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111! Registered: 01/15/05 Posts: 15,427 Last seen: 6 years, 8 months |
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Quote: ADHD drugs are speed. They are all the same drug with different names. It is all a form of amphetamine salts. There is no such thing as ADD/ADHD, it solely exists as a label of normal human actions. Children run around trees and hit them with whiffle bats, children are hyperactive (most often)... especially when given a diet that consists mainly of sugar. Its like rubbing dirt and oil into your face and wondering why you are getting pimples! "My little johnny must have ADHD, after his dinner of gummy bears and cola, he just bounces off the walls...." Depression, ADD, bi-polar, and anxiety were so perfect for the American culture, because instead of owning up to laziness, disinterest, lethargy, fear of social interaction, impatience and mood swings, we decided to give them new names which implied that they were a genetic or physiological manifestation. there is not one shred of proof that these "diseases" exist, all we have done is lump a group of "symptoms" which are merely the ebb and flow of life and contributed them to an imaginary illness. We have been conditioned to believe that happiness is owed to us, and that happiness should be a constant state, and any second in which we aren't loving our life, there is something wrong with us. Happiness isn't a default position after birth, happiness can only be attained by personal growth and understanding. ADD is nothing more than another name for disinterest. "I cant stay focused in my geography class"... what a fucking surprise! most people find geography boring, in fact, most school subjects are boring, which is why it is primarily mandatory, and not voluntary. Give me any person who is diagnosed with ADD and I can show you a person with the most determination, focus and interest if given the proper subject. We have placed so much emphasis on playing this game we call "civilized society" that any time a child refuses to leave their own abstract world and begin to let themselves become conditioned to be the next drone in our pointless society, we claim they are diseased. XTC was first created and marketed as a drug to help marriage counseling. Think it worked? shit yeah it did, couples were fascinated and in so much love with their partner. I always wonder why they never called infidelity or falling out of love a disease, because they treated it as one, with drugs. Amphetamines were first created and marketed for nazi soldiers, created by Merck, to keep soldiers awake longer and resist fatigue. once the war was over, there was no market for it, until they pinned it as a cure for asthma, headaches, and weight problems. Merck has marketed the same drug as a cure for almost everything, and has run out of maladies, so they began making up new diseases to "cure". Psychiatry and psychology took a completely wrong turn when they decided that the mind and the brain were the same thing, and that the analytical mind was a tangible and testable source. i urge all of you to look at the history of the drugs and especially the makers of these drugs. You will be shocked at the semi-genocide they have caused and continue to cause for $$$. wake the fuck up people. you aren't sick, society is.
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Rhizome Registered: 01/01/05 Posts: 23,576 Loc: The Barricades |
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Quote: Maybe so, but until society gets better, I'd rather do what I can to adjust to that society. I was diagnosed with ADHD, and whether or not that diagnosis was legitimate, I do think I would've never gotten through high school or college if not for the dexedrine my doctor prescribed. --------------------
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Stranger ![]() Registered: 04/21/05 Posts: 4,587 |
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The fruits of Scientology...
Depression, ADD, bi-polar, and anxiety were so perfect for the American culture, because instead of owning up to laziness, disinterest, lethargy, fear of social interaction, impatience and mood swings, we decided to give them new names which implied that they were a genetic or physiological manifestation. Yet, some how, all these imaginary diseases have corresponding physical brain states that are recognized internationally. here is not one shred of proof that these "diseases" exist, all we have done is lump a group of "symptoms" which are merely the ebb and flow of life and contributed them to an imaginary illness. Do you not accept scientific evidence as "proof" or do you believe there is a conspiracy of electroencephalographs?
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ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111! Registered: 01/15/05 Posts: 15,427 Last seen: 6 years, 8 months |
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Quote: Care to show me 1 scientific study which proves that the imbalance of brain chemicals is a CAUSE of mood disorders? Also, no one has brought up Scientology here, there is no need for ad hominems or personal attacks. Try attacking the argument, not the presenter of the argument. I have made so many threads regarding this, yet the only response you all can say is "$cientology", even though I just gave sources and proof that the only thing that should have $$$ on it is P$ychiatry. Also, EEG's only show brain activity, not chemical composition. Try educating yourself on atleast one position before you bash or support.
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Mad Scientist Registered: 03/02/05 Posts: 13,372 |
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Your posting on a site dedicated to discussion and analysis of mushrooms and other drugs.
And you still maintain that chemicals have absolutely nothing to do with our thoughts, feelings, emotions, etc.? -------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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Bilbo Baggins Registered: 04/06/04 Posts: 1,382 Loc: The Shire Last seen: 16 years, 10 months |
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Quote: I don't doubt that they made it easier for you to focus. So would smoking meth before you did your homework. -------------------- Smoking my hobbit leaf... Please keep in mind that I am just a human being. Please read my posts carefully and interpret their meaning for yourself.
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ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111! Registered: 01/15/05 Posts: 15,427 Last seen: 6 years, 8 months |
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i never said they don't have anything to do with emotions or thoughts, but do you really believe that our personality, our being, our character is merely the product of chemical interactions?
Of course drugs have an effect for limited periods of time upon our emotions and thoughts..... everything has an effect upon our emotions and thoughts: the television, the internet, politics, a butterfly landing on your finger, a gruesome car wreck. Interaction with any part of reality has a profound effect upon our thoughts and emotions. True happiness, or being truly content isnt a chemical interaction, it is a state of mind and perception that is only attained through personal means, not some drug.
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ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111! Registered: 01/15/05 Posts: 15,427 Last seen: 6 years, 8 months |
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i would like to add that I am all for the recreational and spiritual use of drugs. I take mushrooms not because i think something needs to be fixed in my life, but to have a good time.
There is no difference between a crackhead, or a speed addict, and someone who takes speed under the guise of "prescription use". both are using the drug to avoid the real problems in their life, to escape the reality of their situation, to band-aid their problems away. Addiction is merely the state of needing instant gratification, the medium of that instant gratification is the drug. When you take speed to become more focused you are entering into a state of instant gratification.
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Mad Scientist Registered: 03/02/05 Posts: 13,372 |
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Quote: I honestly don't know, however, it certainly is a possibility. Quote: agreed, but they could be producing these effects via changes in neurotransmitters, etc. Quote: Theoretically, though, if we could give enough of a drug, and (importantly) block tolerance, or some type of compensatory change (withdrawal) that state would persist indefinetly. This indicates the result effects, or "high" of a drug, and also the negative consequences have some sort of "mechanistic" basis. But I digress, I do largely argee with your OP, although I often ask myself: "is there a better alternative?". In a perfect world, the child:teacher ration would be 5:1. Schools would have an abundance of specially trained teachers trained in how to deal with "problem children". Parents would all be actively involved in their kids lives and drugs wouldn't be needed. Given the reality of the situation, however, sedating a child into conformity, (and a state where he/she could achieve) may in fact be better than throwing the kid out of school. -------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436 Edited by badchad (08/01/06 07:45 PM)
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I Tell You What! Registered: 06/24/05 Posts: 5,998 Last seen: 8 years, 9 months |
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ADD is "real" and it's not caused by sugar.
whether it is what they say it is is up to debate. for instance, depression is real. but rather than blaming it on chemicals, it often has a simpler source. for instance, if you are habitually avoiding social situations and hiding indoors all day, this will CHANGE your brain chemistry. it does not mean that you fix the problem by giving drugs, when this problem is largely behavioral/psychological/social/emotional now on the other hand, if you have a poor diet or a brain that somehow stopped being able to produce the chemicals it needed, BUT lived an absolutely normal life and still had bad depression, depression that wasn't psychological, that wasn't based upon philosophy or world view, just frankly, something wasn't right... THEN you are a candidate for drugs. see.... diseases are caused by the interactions of DIFFERENT causes, we have chosen to focus on chemical intervention, and therefore tend to think chemical deficiencies "cause" something when in fact, the true causes are very complex and rarely blameable upon chemicals. it's like, if you are hungry because you don't eat.... you don't stop being hungry by drinking water... you have to eat food. now. any use of imagination can comfirm that some people may ahve really messed up brains and their "consciousness" is radically different than ours. if this is the case, then medicinal intervention is good. if you are just hyper because you are ALIVE and a CHILD and ENJOY LIFE ENOUGH TO HAVE ENERGY FOR WHICH TO LIVE IT then there is nothing wrong with you. if you don't care about studying and want to play, there is nothing wrong with you. but if you really truely cannot maintain attention, something needs to be done to rectify that. we're all drug users, so i think we can understand what it's like to not be able to remember or comprehend things on account of temporarily altered brain-chemistry. for some people their base state of consciousness may be closer to that, than it is for us when we are "sober" and have our cognitive functioning in tact. ----------------------- now something to point out about ADD.... is we could create a "disease" that would label shroomerites as dysfunctional.... defiance of authority tendency to indulge in excessive fantasy introversion etc. I dunno, you can have a disease, and have it be real, but at the same time it isn't. It depends on just why "add" came into fruition in the first place as a label. Like labeling homosexuality as a disorder for instance.... well.... is using psychedelic sacraments a disorder? Depends on how you look at it. It's an extreme violation from the norms of society, and therefore can cause duress from the isolation..... -------------------- ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Edited by leery11 (08/01/06 08:04 PM)
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ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111! Registered: 01/15/05 Posts: 15,427 Last seen: 6 years, 8 months |
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Quote: its possible, but then again, so is the inverse. Take pain for instance, if you stab yourself with a knife, there is only an electrical message which you interpret as almost tangible. it is your body giving you some reference for the spectrum of emotions. Happiness would just be a smile if it werent for the physical indication that we get, that tingle/euphoria.
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I Tell You What! Registered: 06/24/05 Posts: 5,998 Last seen: 8 years, 9 months |
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Quote: well actually if a child is put on drugs when they are too young to make proper decisions, i think it's a lot different than an adult choosing to do speed. do people first choose to do speed thinking "I have something wrong and this WILL fix it, because I have a medical problem that speed will cure" or do they just want to feel better? Intent plays a big role, because the adult on pills just wants to feel better too, but he has faith he's doing something medically right for himself, instead of if he just decided to drop a sheet of acid and let God work it out. (or more realistically, become a heroin user) -------------------- ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
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Let there be light ![]() Registered: 03/20/05 Posts: 449 Last seen: 2 years, 4 months |
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well said, im on your side
--------------------
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ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111! Registered: 01/15/05 Posts: 15,427 Last seen: 6 years, 8 months |
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Quote: Depression and ADD are as real as "happiness" and "melodrama" are. "You sir, are afflicted with happiness and we need to do something about it"... doesn't make sense right? then why does depression make sense as a emotional disease? Could you guys just for one second stop and logically look at this? a disease of emotions? I think we can all agree that emotions are basically abstract, even though they seem to have physical manifestations, they are merely just effects to a cause. Yes, a depressed state happens, it is part of life, without it, we would have nothing to measure happiness. If you mean that feeling down, irrationally shitty, or agitated exists... then yes, I agree with you, but it isn't something extrinsic, it isn't some force beyond your control bearing down on you and sucking the happiness out of you..... IT IS YOU! ADD arises from the amazingly idiotic notion that every person should have some mild interest and be captivated equally by all subjects. We are all idiot savants: each person here has a passion, something which has chimed with them and their soul since the very first time they encountered it..... be it aviation, NASCAR, water polo, chinese checkers, or shadow puppets. I seriously doubt there is one person on the face of this earth who is unable to maintain focus on every single subject. Just because you have no affinity for history, algebra, biology, etc doesnt mean there is some physiological malady affecting and controlling your aptitude. ADD is just another word for disinterest. How many people "afflicted" with ADD on this board could rattle off precise directions on PF tek, spawn bags, the pros and cons of horse manure, the physical characteristics of individual strains, bird seed vs rye grain..... get my point? Quote: here, i completely agree with you. Quote: this is like saying, if you never shave, shower, and constantly shit your pants and still somehow manage not to have a girlfriend, then you are a great candidate for using prostitutes. Quote: again, i agree. Quote: what do you mean by "messed up" brains? there is Downs Syndrome, mental retardation etc which can be proven to have physical abnormalities in the brain which limit function. There is no normal "consciousness", there is only abnormal consciousness when compared against the illusory rules society has set forth. Quote: leery, I love you and your posts, but please step outside of yourself for a little while and re-read this statement. Can you really claim that your perception of reality is a true representation of reality?
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ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111! Registered: 01/15/05 Posts: 15,427 Last seen: 6 years, 8 months |
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Here, I want to show you guys something. This is straight out of the DSM, and it lists the symptoms of ADD/ADHD. If after reading this, you still think that these vaguely defined actions are able to accurately diagnose 9 million children in America of having a physiological deficiency, then.... fuck..... I don't know....
Quote: Now, lets even say that this list has some shred of validity to it, and that in some amazingly illogical, bizzarro world that these symptoms did equate to cephalic abnormalities.... how is it in anyway ethical for a pediatrician to prescribe schedule II drugs to 6 year olds based on 18 questions, many of them relating to school (a time when most parents are not able to observe their kids behaviour), answered by the childrens parents? How many of you have gone to a doctor with severe physical pain afflicting you and begged and pleaded to get something stronger than Vioxx? what happened? maybe if you are lucky, or had your wisdom teeth pulled out, you will get 20 lortabs, and not the 10's either. where is the enforcement of medical ethics here? why can a doctor be threatened with losing his license and having enormous malpractice suits filed against him for writing a prescription for codeine (an over the counter drug in Canada: search 222's), yet be completely guilt free when a 7 year old has a heart attack?
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ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111! Registered: 01/15/05 Posts: 15,427 Last seen: 6 years, 8 months |
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I have ust decided to bombard you with facts. Also, I urge anyone who disagrees with me to counter my claims, show me some alternative statistics with sources, show me improvement rates and such.
Quote: only 3 years ago did medicare stop funding Electroshock therapy. Even more startling was the fact that the largest growth spurt in antidepressant use was among preschoolers. Other statistics showed antidepressants sales reaching the total of 37 billion in sales in 2003, which came out to $9 million more than was spent on treatments for the heart, arteries and blood pressure I would also like to add in regards to all those people out there who have so dilligently informed me that it costs 800 million dollars to test and create a new drug, that not one of the Big Pharma companies has ever proven this, and to this day refuses to show anyone its books. Quote: have we not learned our lesson with Big Tobacco? lets see the similarities stack up here.... Quote: and this just in!!! ON JUNE 30TH, 2006!!!! Quote: wow.... I guess we Americans did learn our lesson..... We see the similarities here, and passed a law which disallows drugmakers to be sued...... Also, I will find the link somewhere, but in the last 5 years, over 116 drug advertisements have been recalled or "reprimanded" due to false advertising. but you guys go ahead and eat those pills, because Big Pharma knows what is best for you. Why would you have any reason not to trust them or our government, or your doctors who get huge bonuses and advancing pay scales for the amount of psychopharmaceutical prescriptions they write? here are a list of other made up diseases that don't have any marketable drugs to cure it (yet) Quote: in the first edition of the DSM, there were only 116 mental disorders. Now there are 374 listed, excluding homosexuality of course, which was on the list, but then voted off in the latest edition. ......so, I will let you guys, if anyone is left reading, either really think about this information provided, or encourage the popular dissent to prove all of this wrong and innaccurate, in fact, not even all of it, just one or two things. I would also really enjoy the dissenting people to find me proof of ADHD, which should be hard, since this really lame quote keeps popping up... Quote: hmmmm.... could it be an open and shut case? I dont think any amount of slandering Scientology will be able to lift you out of that one.....
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I Tell You What! Registered: 06/24/05 Posts: 5,998 Last seen: 8 years, 9 months |
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Quote: i don't think so man. being depressed is not normal or healthy. being sad is. but for me i was in a neurotic state where my happiness was conditional upon something that i could NOT have and it created a suicidal cycle of feedback. it was clearly something severely wrong with my perceptions of the world, and it was crippling, sucking, draining, and I would easily consider it a disease. I think it is a symptom of society. I think we are taught that we can shoot for the stars, then we realize it's a lie... all the things we are told will make us happy, we chase never being able to grasp them, til one day we are broken. Depression can easily be rooted out to delusions and false views upon what happiness is........ for instance if happines is ONLY getting this girls favor, it isn't having an ice cream. petting a puppy. going to a concert. riding a roller coaster. sitting at home having a tea.... going for a slow walk... if it's ONLY getting the girl.... you're straight fucked, because you were programmed wrong. this is also why I think "ADD" springs up, because we are programmed to ignore the simple and slow pleasures and emotions of life, and are bent on being constantly overstimulated to the point of having an agitated mind that thinks happiness, enjoyment, entertainment, is something that comes to you at lightning speed, instant download.... something that you get NOW and NOW and NOW..... something that requires absolutely no effort! depression is so very real though.... do you contest this? I agree it IS YOU but it's how you're wired to be. deep down inside happiness is conditional, rather than eternal, based upon delusions and defilements... oh i can only be happy if i earn a lot... oh i can only be happy if i have friends.... oh i can only be happy if i get a good wife and have kids..... after this and this plus this and this happen then I will allow happy. this is however a strong indication for therapy, not drugs. Quote: i really think this is only partially it. for instance when i read posts my mind often wanders out of control and i will have to reread the same sentence a ton... this was partly because of pot and dissipated upon cessation of pot.... but at any rate.... some people clearly are better able to comprehend and sit in lucidity than others. it may be because of our culture and our overreliance on TV as a form of interaction... because TV gets in your face and makes you pay attention, while you are completely passive... a teacher might just lecture and expect that you hear. i can't tell you how many times i've sat in class and when it's over i'm like "what in the world did we just talk about the whole hour?" and it's partly because of non-interest, you are right, but partly it's something else. and it's illusory too..... i'm sure i could fix it, and meditate upon the teachers voice, make eye contact and rediscover learning, because i didn't use to be this way.... but do you deny that some people do not have grave problems paying attention to things that they should pay attention to? now maybe schools aren't for everyone, and you're right that they will be able to do something which they can focus attention on, definitely so. so it's kind of a social disease, where non-comformity is viewed as problematic. it kind of is though, becasue to "survive" in this societ you generally have to conform to the working/schooling world. Quote: no those are behavioral problems. If you are a normal person, you have emotional support from close friends, from loved ones. You have financial stability. YOu don't have rigid demanding views upon happiness... you are in essence normal, but yet you exhibit behaviors of someone who is off the handle... you may benefit from medication! it's tough though, because we don't care about cause, medication is basiaclly a coverup. it would be much better to root out the cause. but do you not think it possible the some people are just deficient in certain neurotransmitters? Quote: i'm not sure exactly what you mean. I'm saying for some people, they may be naturally prone to paying attention to the subtle reality, rather than gross reality. For instance they may be heavily right brained, where they are tuned into the sounds the teacher is making, rather than the logical gist of what she is saying. Kind of like being stoned.... I'm wondering if one persons stoned reality is another's sober. You know, there is SO much to pay attention to, but all our society wants us to do is to grasp the cold logical and plain side... if you are not tuned into that, there is so much... the brightness of the room... the vocal frequncies and sounds that the speaker's throat is making... and how they correlate to emotions the speaker seems to be expressing. the sounds of people coughing and chattering and talking..... the way the overall sound of the room meshes into a pattern based upon your brains clipping and rendering of the big picture........ what your tongue feels like. your breathing... some people may not be fit to pay "attention" in the ways that society demands. some people may also not be able to suppress excessive sensory information, and i used being high as an example. if you read a TON into a simple gesture, and you make an assumption about that gesture, you may still be thinking about it and have missed the whole of what the person was saying to you, and you'd be like "what" because you base the rest of their interactions upon that gesture itself. like i went to class stoned once and the girl i was sitting next to was tapping her hands, and i somehow thought it was her like, messing with my head and playing with me and i was laughing goofy and i was like "what are you doing!!!!" and for a long time afterward that hand tapping kind of put an influence on her like it seemed like she was interacting with me in a way that i would have normally been oblivious to while sober..... this could conceivable create a deficit in attention. though it didn't. it did lead to me thinking about the Bible instead of the lecture my teacher was giving, because she was talking about spanking and religious traditions relating to it. but i do that anyway lol. another instance, some people have wonderful long term memory, but are hard pressed to remember anything in the short term. i'm one of them. -------------------- ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Edited by leery11 (08/02/06 10:37 AM)
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Pepe Silvia Registered: 05/18/03 Posts: 13,678 Last seen: 11 years, 6 months |
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Psilocyberin, obviously you have little or no understanding of the actual physical effects that mood disorders can bring about. Obviously you have never experienced it first hand, so it's perfectly understandable for you to not be able to get it.
While I respect your argument and do admit that I can't compete with you from an intellectual standpoint, I do have one thing that carries far more weight than anything you've presented in your posts... EXPERIENCE I've suffered from major depressive disorder, bipolar tendancies, ADD and certain personality disorders since before I even knew how to spell them. It's wrecked my life in more ways than one, caused me to drop out of college on two seperate occasions, and throw away every single important thing in my life. Until you go through something like that, I couldn't possibly expect you to be able to understand the true nature of depression and attention disorders. But perhaps the only thing worse than the clinical disorders and their symptoms is having to explain constantly to people that don't get it... Having to apologize for your actions on a daily basis and drive yourself crazy trying to get people to understand the shit you go through every single day. Trying to undo the hurt and pain that are felt by not only yourself, but your family and friends.. Now that's a full time job in itself. Imagine a cancer or AIDS patient having to constantly explain themselves and apologize for having a debilitating medical condition. I hope that I have shown you exactly what your type of mentality does to people that are already going through hell. You might ask me for proof that Attention disorders and depression exist and I say I don't have to. I'm living proof and I'm reminded of it on a daily basis. And I knew it before I ever learned a thing about psychology, I just didn't know the correct terms. -------------------- Same thing happened to me when I played Neil Armstrong in Moonshot. They found me in an alley in Burbank trying to re-enter the earth's atmosphere in an old refrigerator box.
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refutation bias Registered: 10/21/02 Posts: 4,061 Last seen: 7 years, 3 months |
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Why do you have to constantly explain to people all the day the shit you are going through?
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ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111! Registered: 01/15/05 Posts: 15,427 Last seen: 6 years, 8 months |
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Quote: I completely agree, yet what I want to know now, is why you still believe that there is a physiological abnormality, when you have stated multiple times that it is a problem of programming and conditioning? Quote: I will have to quote myself here, because I think a post I just wrote explains my stance on this so well.. Quote: Quote: Do you really think that the only plausible explanation for you not being able to interact with aspects that society deems important. i used to have the same problem: reading a book, and realizing you have no idea what youjust read for three pages...sitting in class and realizing you have no idea what was discussed. I hate to even bring this up, but it is very relevant to this discussion, one of the things I believe Scientology had correct was in regards to this: if you dont understand a word, you will lose full grasp of the paragraph, and if you don't fully understand an entire paragraph, you will be at a loss for comprehension of an entire page. One word/idiom/concept which you don't fully grasp can create an entire misunderstanding, or often times, a complete blankness of what one has read. I had thought to myself, that is bullshit, but the next time I read, i tried it out, with dictionary in hand, and any word in which i didn't completely understand, i looked up, and that was the first time I had complete grasp of an entire book. Believe it or not, that book was actually Stephen Kings "The Stand" unabridged version, which to this day i could recall every single aspect of the 1100+ page book. I urge you to try this, even though it is tedious, but try it with a pamphlet or something, and see how much more you grasp then. Quote: compared to what? i dont think anything short of mental retardation should be considered an abnormality, i think we are all born with the capacity to equally interpret and perceive reality.
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ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111! Registered: 01/15/05 Posts: 15,427 Last seen: 6 years, 8 months |
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Quote: This is about the equivalent of someone statistically proving that God doesn't exist, and then you say, "I can't counter that, but i have a personal relationship with God and I know he exists". I think you need for this to be true, or else the last 5-10 years of therapy and drug consumption is a lie, and complete bullshit. Frankly, I don't even want to discuss this with you, because I seriously doubt your ability to try and see things from an alternative perspective regarding this matter. Also, just because I didnt give my bad mood days a pet name and blame it on external factors beyond my control doesn't mean that I have yet to experience depression, mood swings or bouts of hyperactivity. Much like a devout christian will refuse to listen to anything that makes them question the validity of their faith, because in doing so it throws their entire reality into turmoil and shows them that their entire devotion and goal in life has been chasing a non-existent thing.
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Pepe Silvia Registered: 05/18/03 Posts: 13,678 Last seen: 11 years, 6 months |
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Wow, I don't even know why I tried.
What happens when your bad mood days occur every day and are enough to make you stare down the barrel of a shotgun and dream what life would be like without constant pain? Are they still just bad mood days? I guess that's what it is.. Thanks for showing me the light, I guess I can get over myself now.
-------------------- Same thing happened to me when I played Neil Armstrong in Moonshot. They found me in an alley in Burbank trying to re-enter the earth's atmosphere in an old refrigerator box.
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ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111! Registered: 01/15/05 Posts: 15,427 Last seen: 6 years, 8 months |
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case in point here in regards to my last post.
were you always depressed your entire life? even at the age of 4 were you having thoughts of suicide? or was there a certain age/turning point in which it manifested itself as this extrinsic force which made you incapable of enjoying life. Do you honestly think that you are genetically predisposed to enjoying life any less than anyone else? if so, then yeah, you need a big dose of reality, logic and maybe even a swift kick in the ass to get over yourself.
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I Tell You What! Registered: 06/24/05 Posts: 5,998 Last seen: 8 years, 9 months |
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Quote: Well am I saying it's physiological? I'm saying it can be. But you really may be right. It's so hard to tell, because I think things like "well in tribes depression doesn't exist, because they all support each other unconditionally, and know how to use the right techniques to fix such issues" but how do I really know that's how it is, or I just imagine it because of the TV, or something else entirely. it really might be, that any physiological problem is soley, entirely, and always caused by social factors instead. we live soooo unnaturally it isn't funny. i find your quote very agreeable... and the insight into scientology is very fascinating. There is definitely some truth to that. But to me it is also that my thoughts carry momentum and merge with what I am doing. This corrects itself with exposure. For instance if I am interested in what I am reading, I will eventually pay proper attention to it, rather than continue momentum of thinking about my life while also thinking about the book. But, it can indeed be problematic though! Like I was reading Castenedas Art of Dreaming right now, and deliberately I kept thinking about how my dreams applied, while trying to continue reading at the same time..... and the two trians of thought sometimes didn't merge properly. I feel there is a proper flow where the brain can multi-task at thinking different thoughts, for instance maybe it is proper to give day-dreaming 90% priority and decrease reading down to 10% until the day-dream is complete (assuming the day-dream is based upon the context of what you are reading) then to jump right back up to normal reading "pace" and "mometum" hardly noticing the process. I really think marijuana induces this sort of state of being in you, but it is very hard to put into words. It does some very neat things. But you have to learn how to blaze proper trails while stoned or I think you can create bad and lazy habits which can cause some [but as far as I see, correctable] cognitive issues if you toke a lot. come on mary jane, be legal already! -------------------- ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
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Dog Lover Registered: 04/24/04 Posts: 6,762 |
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I didn't take the time to read every post here but I want to say I agree with much of what I read.....But I know of a serious exception
I have a very close friend with 5 kids and one of them, a boy, is fucking crazy whacked on speed unless he is on some of this so called "speed" scam drugs that have been portrayed in this thread..I can tell you with the utmost confidence that with out this shit he will climb the wall and tear out your fucking eyeballs. He has always been this was since he was just a few weeks old. I don't really care about anyone thoughts or political views ..I know a child who would not be alive if not for these drugs....he would have ran in front of a car or carved his arms up with a butter knife. The little bastard is whacked I'm telling ya Hyper Active Add and a few other things When he is taking his Drugs regulary he is fine.normal. But if he misses his meds watch out............. ![]() And no it's not because he is on withdrawls..he was like this at birth. -------------------- What it is, is what it is my Brother. It is as it is, so suffer thru it.
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ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111! Registered: 01/15/05 Posts: 15,427 Last seen: 6 years, 8 months |
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did the parents try marijuana? maybe change his diet? what other alternatives were exhausted before they decided to place a toddler on amphetamines?
but here is another point I wanted to bring up but forgot about until now: Lets say that this child actually has some metabolism disorder (or any alternative which could possibly be a cause of hyperactivity), the rampant and often instant diagnosis from doctors would most likely prevent that from being further investigated, and all the while a real physical malady continues to fester into something truly debilitating or life threatening. Also, here is something else to think about. After spending a good while searching on the internet, I could not find anything close to statistics or figures which stated how much money has been spent on trying to find a cure for ADHD/depression/bi-polar/anxiety/ADD. I would actually go as far to say that ZERO dollars have been spent towards researching a cure for any of these diseases.
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Stranger ![]() Registered: 04/21/05 Posts: 4,587 |
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no one has brought up Scientology here, there is no need for ad hominems or personal attacks.
"Fruits of Scientology" wasn't meant to attack you specifically, but it certianly was ment to attack Scientology's irrational demonization of psychology. Care to show me 1 scientific study which proves that the imbalance of brain chemicals is a CAUSE of mood disorders? "Acute stress inhibits long-term potentiation (LTP) at synapses from the hippocampus to prefrontal cortex in the rat, a model of the dysfunction in the anterior cingulate/orbitofrontal cortices which has been observed in human depression. We demonstrate that the antidepressants tianeptine and, to a lesser extent, fluoxetine, are able to reverse the impairment in LTP, a measure of frontal synaptic plasticity, caused by stress on an elevated platform. LTP was induced by stimulation of hippocampal outflow. Beneficial effects on neuronal plasticity, defined as a reversal of the effects of stress in this paradigm, can be considered as a new animal model for the impact of stress on hippocampal/frontal circuits, a key target in psychiatric diseases." -- http://cercor.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/14/2/224 "...Reductions in the size and density of some neuronal populations have also been described, accompanied by alterations in indices of synaptic terminals and dendrites. This form of pathology putatively reflects aberrant neurodevelopment or impaired cellular plasticity. A separate pathological process is suggested by the excess of subcortical focal lesions seen on MRI, especially in elderly patients; these probably reflect white matter damage of vascular origin. Both types of pathology have been observed, to a greater or lesser extent, in unipolar as well as bipolar mood disorders...it must now be considered likely that changes in brain structure, both macroscopic and microscopic, are a feature of primary mood disorder, a fact to be taken into account when interpreting functional imaging, neuropsychological and neurochemical data." -- http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/125/7/1428 "Microstructural changes in the white matter of the right superior frontal gyrus are associated with late-life depression. Further work is needed to determine how these changes contribute to depression outcomes." -- http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/161/7/1293
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ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111! Registered: 01/15/05 Posts: 15,427 Last seen: 6 years, 8 months |
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LOL!
the first study shows how antidepressant work on lab rats. the second one states "are a feature of primary mood disorder", not a cause. and the third says "associated". I have read countless studies regarding the correlation between mood disorders and brain chemistry, and not one has ever said one causes the other. Related and associated aren't proof of anything- especially not proof of cause. Me jerking off and porn are related and associated, but porn is not the cause of me jerking off.
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I Tell You What! Registered: 06/24/05 Posts: 5,998 Last seen: 8 years, 9 months |
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Quote: wait, try giving the kid marijuana ? hehe that would go well with the authorities! or did marijuana cause a birth defect in him? I was under the impression it didn't really do anything too severe or irreversible. -------------------- ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
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the lense Registered: 05/11/03 Posts: 2,374 |
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Quote: I think it's an excellet idea as long as it's in appropriate doses from a trustworthy, organic source. If they're so insistent on allowing their child to be drugged they should at least try some cannabutter... I've known a few people who were diagnosed ADHD and bi-polar and they would rather use cannabis than take those meds.
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ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111! Registered: 01/15/05 Posts: 15,427 Last seen: 6 years, 8 months |
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I mean, as long as we have no shame in giving 3 year olds chemicals, then why not try everything? meth, cocaine, inhalants, heroin? you know?
im willing to put money that every single one of those drugs would be as effective as amphetamines. Also, did the parents even try looking at alternate diseases such as hyperthyroid problems and such?
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the lense Registered: 05/11/03 Posts: 2,374 |
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Instead of piling drugs on top of the problem what if parents took a look at their child's daily environment and started taking away things that the kid is routinely exposed to.
How do we know that electromagnetic pollution is not causing some these disorders? What about the crap that passes for food these kids are eating? Oh but this type of action would cut into big pharma profits wouldn't it.... I'm beyond disgusted by the whole industry. I bet we'd all be suprised to find out exactly where the raw materials to make these drugs are coming from. Industrial waste, anyone? If it's good enough to be dumping on food as pesticide and fertilizer why not cut costs and use it for drugs? There's never a shortage of cronies who will deem something "safe" if it means bigger profit.
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