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OfflineSneezingPenis
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My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist.
    #5918747 - 07/31/06 02:45 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Now, this will be a lot of quoting, but I will give cliff notes at the end of every quoted paragraph for those of you with severe ADD/laziness.

first, we start with a little history regarding the Bush administration, and its involvement in the amazing leap of prescribed, harmful drugs to children in the last 10 years.

Quote:

A little over a year after Bush announced the formation of the NFC, on July 22, 2003, government report was released that called for redesigning the mental health systems in all 50 states. A press release previewing the report stated:

"Achieving this goal will require greater engagement and education of first line health care providers—primary care practitioners—and a greater focus on mental health care in institutions such as schools, child welfare programs, and the criminal and juvenile justice systems. The goal is integrated care that can screen, identify, and respond to problems early."

About 7 months later, on February 5, 2003, a subcommittee report was released titled, "Promoting, Preserving and Restoring Children’s Mental Heath," and stated in part:




basically here, Bush created and Organization called the New Freedom Committee (already scared?) in 2002, with the seemingly righteous goal of improving mental health standards. More and more, the bill becomes geared towards children.... still not a big deal right?

Quote:

The NFC specifically calls for all screening programs to be linked to "state-of-the-art treatments" using "specific medications for specific conditions."

The Texas Medication Algorithm Project (TMAP) is the centerpiece of the NFC’s recommendation for “specific medications.” Algorithms are lists of drugs with guidelines that medical professionals must follow when prescribing medication to patients for specific mental illnesses, and contain flow charts that illustrate step-by-step prescribing process.

The TMAP drug lists and guidelines were developed and approved in Texas while Bush was Governor, through an "expert opinion consensus" by a panel of medical professionals chosen by the pharmaceutical sponsors of the program that included Janssen Pharmaceutica, Eli Lilly, Johnson & Johnson, Astrazeneca, Pfizer, Novartis, Janssen-Ortho-McNeil, GlaxoSmithKline, Abbott, Bristol Myers Squibb, Wyeth-Ayerst and Forrest Laboratories.




So here, the NFC becomes a little more serious about psychologically screening every child. Then they state that they will use a set of prescribing guidlines set forth by a group called TMAP (Texas Medication Algorithm Project). TMAP was comprised of nothing more than representatives of the major Pharmaceutical companies. So the people who were setting the standards for prescribing children drugs, were the very people making these drugs.... CONFLICT OF INTEREST? read on.....

Quote:

Once approved, TMAP guaranteed an avalanche of sales for Big Pharma in Texas, because medical professionals were required to follow the TMAP guidelines with all patients in state institutions, such as mental hospitals and prisons, and when prescribing drugs to children in foster care or juvenile justice programs, and for all patients covered by government funded health care programs.

The NFC recommends TMAP as the model program for “specific medications” to be used in all 50 states. The “specific medications” are the most expensive drugs on the market and include drugs known as selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors antidepressants (SSRIs), like Paxil, Prozac, Zoloft, and Effexor, and the atypical antipsychotics, that include Zyprexa, Risperdal, Geodon, Seroquel, Clozaril, and Abilify.

Other “specific medications” include the ADHD drugs, fondly known as “speed” to street addicts, such as Adderall, Dexedrine, Concerta, Ritalin and Strattera, and a garden variety of “downers,” like Valium, Xanax, Librium and sleeping pills.




So, once TMAP was approved, it was required to be followed by all Texas institutions, this includes state health care, juvenile institutions, prisons and psych wards.
Amazingly, these mandatory guidelines (oxymoron a bit?) were all the new drugs that all the companies represented in TMAP sold, which just so happens to be the most expensive drugs out there, even though generic substitutes would have been adequate. So basically, the state and now federal government, are shelling out our tax dollars for the most expensive designer drugs available, for people on medicare and state institutions. read on, it gets way better...


Quote:

In 2004, a report by the advocacy group, Public Citizen, listed 21 drug industry and HMO executives or lobbyists among Bush’s Rangers and Pioneers – titles given only to those people who have raised at least $200,000 or $100,000, respectively, for one of his presidential campaigns.

The list includes 5 executives from drug companies, 6 officials from HMOs, the CEO of a pharmacy services company, the head of a direct-mail pharmacy, and 8 lobbyists who represent drug companies and HMOs at the time.

Eli Lilly, a manufacturer of many of the “specific medications” chosen for the lists, has multiple ties to the Bush family dating back decades. Before becoming President Reagan’s Vice President, the first President Bush was a member of Lilly’s board of directors and the current President Bush appointed Lilly CEO, Sidney Taurel, to the Homeland Security Council.

In the year 2000, eighty-two percent of Lilly's $1.6 million in political contributions went to Bush and the Republican Party.

Another industry big-wig, retired Bristol-Myers Squibb Vice-Chairman, Bruce Gelb, was a Bush Pioneer who also had longstanding ties to the Bush family. Gelb was appointed chief of the US Information Agency, and ambassador to Belgium, by the first President Bush.

Before the 2000 election, Bristol-Myers executives reportedly were pressured to make maximum donations to the Bush campaign and reluctant donors were warned that CEO, Charles Heimbold Jr, whom Bush later named ambassador to Sweden, would be informed if they failed to give, according a September 5, 2003 New York Times article.

Pfizer CEO, Hank McKinnell, was a 2004 Bush Ranger and until 2003, served as chairman of the board of Pharmaceutical Research & Manufacturers of America, the industry’s gigantic trade group, until Republican lawmaker, Billy Tauzin, quit Congress and took over the position that came with a multi-million dollar package in combined salary and perks.




here it shows the political and financial ties both President Bush's have had with the pharm corps: Bush Sr. used to work for Eli Lilly, a pharm corp that makes many of the drugs listed on TMAP, who then later appointed the CEO of Eli Lilly to the Homeland Security Council.
Other big-wigs from pharm corporations were given ambassador positions and such.


Quote:

In 2004, Illinois became the first state to implement mental health screening programs. Its plan calls for both children and adults to be screened during their routine physical exams. To that end, the state legislature passed the Illinois Children's Mental Health Act (ICMHP), which is expected to become a model for other states.

The final report by the ICMHP Task Force calls for a comprehensive, coordinated children’s mental health system comprised of prevention, early intervention, and treatment for children ages 0-18, along with a statewide data-reporting system to track information on each person.

It requires social-emotional development screens with all mandated school exams (K, 4th, and 9th), and says to: “Start early, beginning prenatally and at birth, and continue throughout adolescence, including efforts to support adolescents in making the transition to young adulthood,” and includes a plan to screen all pregnant women




Here, it talks about how the government wishes to psychologically screen children 0-18 (yes 0, but it gets even better!). They even wish to start screening pregnant women, for PRE-NATAL screening of social-emotional disorders. Do you think that we are being geared towards a Brave New World here?
But Psilocyberin, what about psychotherapy?


Quote:

And studies reveal that talk therapy is a thing of the past because pushing pills is by far more profitable. A 2003 study by the American Psychiatric Association, on "financial disincentives" for psychotherapy, found doctors could earn about $263 an hour for doing three 15-minute "medication management" sessions, verses about $156 for a single 45- to 50-minute therapy session. Thus, conducting therapy verses medication management would represents an hourly pay cut of 41%, the APA study said.




wow, so even the AMA has stated that pill pushing is far more financially stimulating for "doctors" than actual psychotherapy. Keep in mind that much of the mental medication is subsidized by the government, while psychotherapy is rarely ever subsidized... so our own government, is even pushing for the medication, making therapy a "disincentive".

Quote:

One of the more recent screening programs that has caught the attention of anti-drugging activists, is a survey called "Signs of Suicide” (SOS), which is being touted as a self-assessment screening tool and is provided free online on the internet.

This particular psychiatric screening program claims it is being promoted as an effort to reduce suicides, alcoholism, depression and eating disorders, to be used in high schools, colleges, the workplace, and the military.

SOS claims it is the creation of the "nonprofit" Massachusetts-based corporation, Screening for Mental Health, Inc (SMH). However, as it turns out, the development of the firm’s screening programs, was funded with millions of dollars from Big Pharma.

A picture taken at the company during an event in honor of, "National Depression Screening Day," (whatever that is), on October 18, 2001, shows Eli Lilly presenting SMH with a check for $500,000.

But Lilly’s half-million dollar grant was just the tip of the iceberg. SMH has also received millions of dollars in grants from other drug giants including Pfizer, Solvay, Abbott Labs, Wyeth, Forest Pharmaceuticals, the Robert Johnson Foundation, AstaZeneca and GlaxoSmithKline.

All total, the tax records show that Lilly poured $2,157,925 into SMH between 2001 and 2004, and for the year 2004 alone, in addition to Lilly’s $600,000, Pfizer gave SMH $125,000, Wyeth ponied up $100,000, and Forest Labs gave $153,000




So a new screening process was developed, called SOS, for suicide prevention, which claims to be a non-profit organization. It is a personal online survey which has been implemented and pushed in the military, schools, colleges and workplaces.
Upon financial inspection, SOS is completely funded by pharm corporations, and is obviously a tax front to pour money into an institution created by them which aggressivly maintains their agenda of pushing as many expensive, useless drugs onto Americans.


Quote:

These “free” online mental health screening programs are also being promoted in colleges all across the country. Brian Hokanson is a college student in Minnesota who wrote a commentary describing his experience with an online survey.

At the beginning of last fall’s semester, Brian noticed fliers in his residence hall that were encouraging students to take a free online screening test for depression.

Brian says he soon found out that any combination of answers on the screening resulted in a recommendation to see a doctor. The first section of the test, he says, listed negative behaviors such as “feeling bad about yourself” and “feeling tired or having little energy.”

For each statement checked, Brian was instructed to chose how often the statement applied to him in the previous two weeks, ranging from “not at all” to “nearly every day.”

In the second part of the test, the student is asked to rate how difficult each of the behaviors checked has made it to function in daily life, ranging from “not difficult at all” to “extremely difficult.”

Brian says he decided to "test the test," and chose “not at all” for all of the behaviors except for “poor appetite or overeating,” and he said that statement applied to him for “several days.” On the second section, he stated that the problem made it “not difficult at all” for him to function in daily life.

Upon clicking on the results, Brian was told: “Your screening results are consistent with minimal depression … You are advised to see your doctor or a mental health professional for a complete evaluation as soon as possible.”

As for the inventor of this particular screening tool, Brian reports that the fine print at the bottom of the page of the survey reads: “Copyright 1999 Pfizer, Inc.”




so if you were to take this SOS test, no matter what your answers were, you would be diagnosed with atleast mild depression, and advised to get on an SSRI. The test was created by Pfizer..... kind of odd, right? I mean, here is a pharmaceutical corporation claiming that EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN THE US HAS DEPRESSION AND NEEDS MEDICATION!

Quote:

The NFC also recommends screening for all pregnant women that will predictably lead to the use of SSRIs, even though a study as far back as the February 2, 2004, American Journal of Pediatrics, said that pregnant women who use SSRIs "to combat depression could be damaging the brains of their unborn babies."

According to the study, direct evidence of a link between fetal exposure and disrupted neurological development was apparent in a study of American mothers and their infants. "Abnormal sleeping patterns, heart rhythms and levels of alertness," the study found, "were linked by researchers to drugs called selective-serotonin re-uptake inhibitors (SSRIs)."

The study leader, Philip Zeskind, a psychologist and research professor of pediatrics at the University of North Carolina, noted that SSRIs disrupt the neurological systems of children, and said "this is more than just a possibility, we're talking about hundreds of thousands of babies being exposed to these drugs during pregnancy."

"These babies are bathed in serotonin during a key period of their development and we really don't know what it's doing to them or what the long-term effects might be," he advised. The Professor warned that "these drugs are being given away like smarties, and this is a big problem."




The NFC, remember them?, reccommends that pregnant women take the SOS test, or similar screening, which amazingly ends up in the reccommendation of getting on an SSRI, even though the APA has published studies that found SSRI's to be extremely harmful to unborn children. Yet this goes on to this day.
They also try to get you when you are old, they aren't going for one age group, they are going for EVERYBODY. Walk into any nursing home and see what percentage of elderly people are on SSRI's.


Quote:

In a study published in the June 13, 2005, Archives of Internal Medicine, that examined the quality of antipsychotic prescriptions for nearly 2.5 million Medicaid patients in nursing homes, “over half (58.2%),” received antipsychotics that exceeded the maximum recommended dosage or received duplicate therapy or had inappropriate indications for the drugs to begin with.

The study found that more than 200,000 nursing home residents received antipsychotic therapy with “no appropriate indications for use.” In October 2005, the Journal of the American Medical Association, published a meta-analysis of 15 randomized trials of more than 5,000 elderly patients treated with atypicals that found patients taking the drugs had a 54% increased chance of dying within 3 months, compared with patients taking a placebo.




Quote:

In fact, so many people are being prescribed these expensive drugs that the TMAP part of the marketing scheme is coming apart at the seams due to pure and simple greed. State lawmakers say that the costs incurred due to the over-prescribing of the drugs are bankrupting state Medicaid programs and they have to stop the practice of over-prescribing to keep from going broke.

According to the July 27, 2005, Wall Street Journal, antidepressants and antipsychotics are the third and fourth biggest classes of drugs in the US after cholesterol and heartburn medicines, with sales of $20.7 billion in 2004, with much "of that cost is borne by government health-care plans," the journal said.

The prices per pill for these drugs are themselves insane. For example, in South Carolina, Zyprexa is the most expensive atypical covered by Medicaid, and according to James Assey, a pharmacist with the South Carolina Department of Health and Human Services, a one-month supply pills costs Medicaid over $700.




so now, TMAP is having to reverse this juggernaut it created, and due to rampant overprescribing, it has financially depleted almost every single state healthcare program. Zyprexa cost 700$ for one months prescription in South Carolina, which was covered by medicare. Ever heard of "off-label use"? im about to get to that....

Quote:

Big Pharma is making a ton of money off selling these drugs off-label for kids. A report in the April 24, 2005, Columbus Dispatch, found that 40,000 children aged 6-18 who were covered by Medicaid were prescribed psychotropic drugs: 31% of the children were in foster care, and 22% were in juvenile detention. Medicaid spent $65.5 million for drugs used primarily as "chemical restraints," according to Pyle, P, “Drugged into Submission.”

According to FDA estimates, 11 million antidepressant prescriptions were written in 2003 for under 19-year-olds, representing a 27% increase in 3 years.

The sale of ADHD drugs, also skyrocked in 2003. In 5 to 9-year-old children their use increased 85%, and in preschoolers usage was up 49%, according to Medco Health Solution’s, 2004 Drug Trend Symposium. Overall, sales of psychiatric drugs totaled $26.7 billion in 2004, according to NDC Health Corp, a Georgia-based health information firm.




preschoolers usage of psychiatric drugs (mostly amphetamines and SSRI's) is up 49%.

Do, I really need to go on? wake the fuck up people! everytime I come to this forum, i see a new thread about someone self-diagnosing themselves with ADHD and Depression. All of this has gone on without one shred of definitive evidence or study that can prove mental illness (or whatever the APA and big Pharma deem to be so) is CAUSED by chemical imbalances in the brain!
Do you not see the trend? the agenda of these souless bastards who care not one bit about your health or wellbeing? In the last 10 years, psychotropic drug advertising has gone from nonexistence to being about every third commercial.
I have no self-serving agenda in all of this. I truly care about this topic, and anyone who knows my posts, love it or hate it, knows that I have put many hours of selfless effort into making the shroomery more aware about the dangers and misconceptions regarding psychiatry and its drugs.

All I want is for people to try, just for a few minutes, to take an alternative perspective regarding this epedimic and stop becoming the medium for which it thrives on, and start becoming a retarding force against its death grip it has on America's people.


source: http://www.sierratimes.com/06/07/10/75_8_41_234_97438.htm


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OfflineThe_Hobbit
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5919008 - 07/31/06 04:01 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Good post.

Atleast some people here will know what's up with these meds. I always knew that something was wrong when people start to substitute a healthy lifestyle, including exercise, with a magical pill.

The sad thing to me is that many people just don't care to take an active approach at solving their problems with focusing and energy (both related, ofcourse). It is a regular thing for someone to watch 10-30 hours of TV a week rather than taking that time to meditate on things or do some intense exercise. There is something seriously wrong when even kids are having these problems.


--------------------
Smoking my hobbit leaf...
Please keep in mind that I am just a human being. Please read my posts carefully and interpret their meaning for yourself.


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Offlineleery11
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5919019 - 07/31/06 04:05 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

concerning
"Other “specific medications” include the ADHD drugs, fondly known as “speed” to street addicts, such as Adderall, Dexedrine, Concerta, Ritalin and Strattera, and a garden variety of “downers,” like Valium, Xanax, Librium and sleeping pills."

i don't know if that's fair though, speed is far more potent and recreational than the ADD drugs.

those pills are indeed a fucking joke though. Oh my, you are slightly irritable and have had problems sleeping a few nights a week? Well, let's try some soma... err umm... I mean zoloft......


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


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OfflineZombieJesus
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: leery11]
    #5919614 - 07/31/06 07:22 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

In my personal opinion, Adderall is stronger and much longer lasting than street amphetamines. I have absolutely no idea why anyone would prescribe Adderall to their children. The comedown is harsh, leaving you with extreme dysphoria, it is highly addictive, and is very taxing on the body.


As far as Zoloft is concerned, it has been shown in many clinical trials that St. John's Wort is equally, if not more, effective than antidepressants currently on the market for relieving symptoms of mild to moderate depression. Furthermore, the side effect profile is much more attractive in comparison. Also, it costs about a 1/10th as much.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=19939
http://www.vanderbilt.edu/AnS/psychology/health_psychology/StJohn.htm
http://www.vitacost.com/science/medstudies.cfm?litid=30


--------------------
This is an exercise in narcissistic paranoia.


Edited by ZombieJesus (07/31/06 07:29 PM)


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InvisibleZippoZM
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: ZombieJesus]
    #5919794 - 07/31/06 08:18 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

you want a war on drugs? lets stop pharmacutical distribution nation wide :smile:

but seeing how people get their stuff about a month at a time, even a several day long boycott would not work......


hot damn, they ave us wired.


--------------------
PEACE

:mushroom2:zippoz:mushroom2:



"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."


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Offlinebarfightlard
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5920448 - 07/31/06 11:24 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I'm going with the simplest answer. Because they live in America....


--------------------

"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: SneezingPenis] * 1
    #5921160 - 08/01/06 06:20 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I have witnessed a real hyperactive child and know that they exist. A friend of the family adopted unwanted children. In this case, the child had been a "crack baby" that had been abandoned by his mother (along with his sister. Both were adopted together). He was the same age as my younger brother and they became friends.

I watched the kid one day run around a tree in the backyard hitting it with a wiffle ball bat for more than two hours, non-stop. This sort of behavior would only happen when he did not take medication (speed). It was night and day between when he was on medication and not. A true Dr.Jeckle & Mr. Hyde.

This being said, I think most of the ADD diagnosis are incorrect with parents using medication and television to raise their children. However, just because 99+% of the cases are "bogus", that doesn't mean the disease doesn't exist.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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Offlinetrunksan
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: Seuss] * 1
    #5921185 - 08/01/06 06:59 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

If you look at it from a business prespective. The companies are simply using marketing tactics to promote their products. The problem of course is on the process they fuck up people's lives.

My uncle is a doctor and he gets free trips all over Europe and gifts from pharmaceuticals because he prescribes a lot of them.

However, I believe it all boils down to the western world's coulture. We'd rather pay for the easy solution rather then work hard for the right one.


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Offlineleery11
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Registered: 06/24/05
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: trunksan]
    #5921400 - 08/01/06 10:22 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

trunksan said:
If you look at it from a business prespective. The companies are simply using marketing tactics to promote their products. The problem of course is on the process they fuck up people's lives.



and much like only "ugly" people get plastic surgery (in fact, normal looking girls who think they are ugly, as the truely ugly wouldn't care and would have some sense of pride if you see what i think i mean)

normal people become convinced that they are "depressed" or have ADD.

It's pretty evil and all ecompassing. The media made us think we are so so so so ugly that eventually they realized they could use this conditioned ugliness to not only sell beauty products, but advanced medical procedures, botoxes, snips and cuts, nose jobs, etc.

well, the media also detuned our ability to pay attention to invidiual tasks (because the media is constantly changing and being interupted with fast paced commercials) that they decided they could convince you that not being able to pay attention is a problem that warrants giving them more money.
TV got your brain zonked out? Just take a ritalin and you'll be right as rain.

and likewise, this society is responsible for our "depression" and yet they exploit this depression to push products.

because depressoin in particular is a symptom of our society, nothing our society does can fix it. you have to go into counterculture. be it psychedelic therapy, training in meditation / martial arts / yoga / etc, going on a nature retreat, etc.

of course, this nation could capitalize on psychedelic treatment and exploit meditation too...... but i'm not sure how they could rape them of substance.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


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InvisibleStroFun
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: leery11]
    #5921416 - 08/01/06 10:33 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

leery11 said:
concerning
"Other “specific medications” include the ADHD drugs, fondly known as “speed” to street addicts, such as Adderall, Dexedrine, Concerta, Ritalin and Strattera, and a garden variety of “downers,” like Valium, Xanax, Librium and sleeping pills."

i don't know if that's fair though, speed is far more potent and recreational than the ADD drugs.

those pills are indeed a fucking joke though. Oh my, you are slightly irritable and have had problems sleeping a few nights a week? Well, let's try some soma... err umm... I mean zoloft......



In my area ADHD meds are way more prevalent in high schookids than speed. Easier to get cheap and it lasts pretty long. Also a good appetite supressant. But i have adhd so its no use to me ha ha

My children will never be on medicine unless they tell me it helps them noticeably and i will try herbal remedies before i pay 20 bucks a pill or whatever for some bullshit like this.
I was on antidepressants and i felt no difference while on them...


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OfflineViveka
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: ZombieJesus]
    #5922082 - 08/01/06 02:45 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

I have absolutely no idea why anyone would prescribe Adderall to their children.


Because it's not parents but doctors who prescribe the Adderall and only doctors can make the right decision when it comes to any issue dealing with health or psychology. Or at least this is what most people have been taught. Some people experience relief from their afflictions by simply visiting the doctor. They have been trained that going to the doctor and doig what he/she suggest is what one must do in order to be healthy and happy, so just being in the waiting room is therapeutic for a lot of people.

Great post psilo.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: StroFun]
    #5922679 - 08/01/06 06:19 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

StroFun said:
In my area ADHD meds are way more prevalent in high schookids than speed.




ADHD drugs are speed. They are all the same drug with different names. It is all a form of amphetamine salts.


There is no such thing as ADD/ADHD, it solely exists as a label of normal human actions. Children run around trees and hit them with whiffle bats, children are hyperactive (most often)... especially when given a diet that consists mainly of sugar. Its like rubbing dirt and oil into your face and wondering why you are getting pimples!
"My little johnny must have ADHD, after his dinner of gummy bears and cola, he just bounces off the walls...."

Depression, ADD, bi-polar, and anxiety were so perfect for the American culture, because instead of owning up to laziness, disinterest, lethargy, fear of social interaction, impatience and mood swings, we decided to give them new names which implied that they were a genetic or physiological manifestation.

there is not one shred of proof that these "diseases" exist, all we have done is lump a group of "symptoms" which are merely the ebb and flow of life and contributed them to an imaginary illness.

We have been conditioned to believe that happiness is owed to us, and that happiness should be a constant state, and any second in which we aren't loving our life, there is something wrong with us. Happiness isn't a default position after birth, happiness can only be attained by personal growth and understanding.

ADD is nothing more than another name for disinterest. "I cant stay focused in my geography class"... what a fucking surprise! most people find geography boring, in fact, most school subjects are boring, which is why it is primarily mandatory, and not voluntary.
Give me any person who is diagnosed with ADD and I can show you a person with the most determination, focus and interest if given the proper subject. We have placed so much emphasis on playing this game we call "civilized society" that any time a child refuses to leave their own abstract world and begin to let themselves become conditioned to be the next drone in our pointless society, we claim they are diseased.

XTC was first created and marketed as a drug to help marriage counseling. Think it worked? shit yeah it did, couples were fascinated and in so much love with their partner. I always wonder why they never called infidelity or falling out of love a disease, because they treated it as one, with drugs.

Amphetamines were first created and marketed for nazi soldiers, created by Merck, to keep soldiers awake longer and resist fatigue. once the war was over, there was no market for it, until they pinned it as a cure for asthma, headaches, and weight problems. Merck has marketed the same drug as a cure for almost everything, and has run out of maladies, so they began making up new diseases to "cure".

Psychiatry and psychology took a completely wrong turn when they decided that the mind and the brain were the same thing, and that the analytical mind was a tangible and testable source.

i urge all of you to look at the history of the drugs and especially the makers of these drugs. You will be shocked at the semi-genocide they have caused and continue to cause for $$$.

wake the fuck up people. you aren't sick, society is.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5922742 - 08/01/06 06:34 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

psilocyberin said:
wake the fuck up people. you aren't sick, society is.



Maybe so, but until society gets better, I'd rather do what I can to adjust to that society. I was diagnosed with ADHD, and whether or not that diagnosis was legitimate, I do think I would've never gotten through high school or college if not for the dexedrine my doctor prescribed.


--------------------


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5922768 - 08/01/06 06:39 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

The fruits of Scientology...

Depression, ADD, bi-polar, and anxiety were so perfect for the American culture, because instead of owning up to laziness, disinterest, lethargy, fear of social interaction, impatience and mood swings, we decided to give them new names which implied that they were a genetic or physiological manifestation.

Yet, some how, all these imaginary diseases have corresponding physical brain states that are recognized internationally.

here is not one shred of proof that these "diseases" exist, all we have done is lump a group of "symptoms" which are merely the ebb and flow of life and contributed them to an imaginary illness.

Do you not accept scientific evidence as "proof" or do you believe there is a conspiracy of electroencephalographs?


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5922832 - 08/01/06 06:59 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

MushmanTheManic said:

here is not one shred of proof that these "diseases" exist, all we have done is lump a group of "symptoms" which are merely the ebb and flow of life and contributed them to an imaginary illness.

Do you not accept scientific evidence as "proof" or do you believe there is a conspiracy of electroencephalographs?




Care to show me 1 scientific study which proves that the imbalance of brain chemicals is a CAUSE of mood disorders?

Also, no one has brought up Scientology here, there is no need for ad hominems or personal attacks. Try attacking the argument, not the presenter of the argument.
I have made so many threads regarding this, yet the only response you all can say is "$cientology", even though I just gave sources and proof that the only thing that should have $$$ on it is P$ychiatry.

Also, EEG's only show brain activity, not chemical composition. Try educating yourself on atleast one position before you bash or support.


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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: SneezingPenis] * 1
    #5922868 - 08/01/06 07:12 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Your posting on a site dedicated to discussion and analysis of mushrooms and other drugs.

And you still maintain that chemicals have absolutely nothing to do with our thoughts, feelings, emotions, etc.?


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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OfflineThe_Hobbit
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: Silversoul]
    #5922887 - 08/01/06 07:23 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Quote:

psilocyberin said:
wake the fuck up people. you aren't sick, society is.



Maybe so, but until society gets better, I'd rather do what I can to adjust to that society. I was diagnosed with ADHD, and whether or not that diagnosis was legitimate, I do think I would've never gotten through high school or college if not for the dexedrine my doctor prescribed.



I don't doubt that they made it easier for you to focus. So would smoking meth before you did your homework.


--------------------
Smoking my hobbit leaf...
Please keep in mind that I am just a human being. Please read my posts carefully and interpret their meaning for yourself.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: badchad]
    #5922889 - 08/01/06 07:23 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

i never said they don't have anything to do with emotions or thoughts, but do you really believe that our personality, our being, our character is merely the product of chemical interactions?

Of course drugs have an effect for limited periods of time upon our emotions and thoughts..... everything has an effect upon our emotions and thoughts: the television, the internet, politics, a butterfly landing on your finger, a gruesome car wreck. Interaction with any part of reality has a profound effect upon our thoughts and emotions.
True happiness, or being truly content isnt a chemical interaction, it is a state of mind and perception that is only attained through personal means, not some drug.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5922922 - 08/01/06 07:37 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

i would like to add that I am all for the recreational and spiritual use of drugs. I take mushrooms not because i think something needs to be fixed in my life, but to have a good time.

There is no difference between a crackhead, or a speed addict, and someone who takes speed under the guise of "prescription use". both are using the drug to avoid the real problems in their life, to escape the reality of their situation, to band-aid their problems away. Addiction is merely the state of needing instant gratification, the medium of that instant gratification is the drug. When you take speed to become more focused you are entering into a state of instant gratification.


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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5922941 - 08/01/06 07:43 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

psilocyberin said:
i never said they don't have anything to do with emotions or thoughts, but do you really believe that our personality, our being, our character is merely the product of chemical interactions?




I honestly don't know, however, it certainly is a possibility.

Quote:

psilocyberin said:Of course drugs have an effect for limited periods of time upon our emotions and thoughts..... everything has an effect upon our emotions and thoughts: the television, the internet, politics, a butterfly landing on your finger, a gruesome car wreck. Interaction with any part of reality has a profound effect upon our thoughts and emotions.




agreed, but they could be producing these effects via changes in neurotransmitters, etc.

Quote:

psilocyberin said:True happiness, or being truly content isnt a chemical interaction, it is a state of mind and perception that is only attained through personal means, not some drug.




Theoretically, though, if we could give enough of a drug, and (importantly) block tolerance, or some type of compensatory change (withdrawal) that state would persist indefinetly. This indicates the result effects, or "high" of a drug, and also the negative consequences have some sort of "mechanistic" basis.

But I digress, I do largely argee with your OP, although I often ask myself: "is there a better alternative?". In a perfect world, the child:teacher ration would be 5:1. Schools would have an abundance of specially trained teachers trained in how to deal with "problem children". Parents would all be actively involved in their kids lives and drugs wouldn't be needed. Given the reality of the situation, however, sedating a child into conformity, (and a state where he/she could achieve) may in fact be better than throwing the kid out of school.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


Edited by badchad (08/01/06 07:45 PM)


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Offlineleery11
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: badchad] * 1
    #5922975 - 08/01/06 07:55 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

ADD is "real" and it's not caused by sugar.

whether it is what they say it is is up to debate.

for instance, depression is real. but rather than blaming it on chemicals, it often has a simpler source.

for instance, if you are habitually avoiding social situations and hiding indoors all day, this will CHANGE your brain chemistry. it does not mean that you fix the problem by giving drugs, when this problem is largely behavioral/psychological/social/emotional

now on the other hand, if you have a poor diet or a brain that somehow stopped being able to produce the chemicals it needed, BUT lived an absolutely normal life and still had bad depression, depression that wasn't psychological, that wasn't based upon philosophy or world view, just frankly, something wasn't right... THEN you are a candidate for drugs.

see.... diseases are caused by the interactions of DIFFERENT causes, we have chosen to focus on chemical intervention, and therefore tend to think chemical deficiencies "cause" something when in fact, the true causes are very complex and rarely blameable upon chemicals.

it's like, if you are hungry because you don't eat.... you don't stop being hungry by drinking water... you have to eat food.

now. any use of imagination can comfirm that some people may ahve really messed up brains and their "consciousness" is radically different than ours. if this is the case, then medicinal intervention is good.

if you are just hyper because you are ALIVE and a CHILD and ENJOY LIFE ENOUGH TO HAVE ENERGY FOR WHICH TO LIVE IT then there is nothing wrong with you.

if you don't care about studying and want to play, there is nothing wrong with you. but if you really truely cannot maintain attention, something needs to be done to rectify that.

we're all drug users, so i think we can understand what it's like to not be able to remember or comprehend things on account of temporarily altered brain-chemistry. for some people their base state of consciousness may be closer to that, than it is for us when we are "sober" and have our cognitive functioning in tact.

-----------------------

now something to point out about ADD.... is we could create a "disease" that would label shroomerites as dysfunctional....
defiance of authority
tendency to indulge in excessive fantasy
introversion

etc.

I dunno, you can have a disease, and have it be real, but at the same time it isn't. It depends on just why "add" came into fruition in the first place as a label. Like labeling homosexuality as a disorder for instance.... well.... is using psychedelic sacraments a disorder? Depends on how you look at it. It's an extreme violation from the norms of society, and therefore can cause duress from the isolation.....


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


Edited by leery11 (08/01/06 08:04 PM)


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: badchad]
    #5922983 - 08/01/06 07:58 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

badchad said:
Quote:

psilocyberin said:Of course drugs have an effect for limited periods of time upon our emotions and thoughts..... everything has an effect upon our emotions and thoughts: the television, the internet, politics, a butterfly landing on your finger, a gruesome car wreck. Interaction with any part of reality has a profound effect upon our thoughts and emotions.




agreed, but they could be producing these effects via changes in neurotransmitters, etc.




its possible, but then again, so is the inverse. Take pain for instance, if you stab yourself with a knife, there is only an electrical message which you interpret as almost tangible. it is your body giving you some reference for the spectrum of emotions. Happiness would just be a smile if it werent for the physical indication that we get, that tingle/euphoria.


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Offlineleery11
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5923006 - 08/01/06 08:04 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

psilocyberin said:
i would like to add that I am all for the recreational and spiritual use of drugs. I take mushrooms not because i think something needs to be fixed in my life, but to have a good time.

There is no difference between a crackhead, or a speed addict, and someone who takes speed under the guise of "prescription use". both are using the drug to avoid the real problems in their life, to escape the reality of their situation, to band-aid their problems away. Addiction is merely the state of needing instant gratification, the medium of that instant gratification is the drug. When you take speed to become more focused you are entering into a state of instant gratification.



well actually if a child is put on drugs when they are too young to make proper decisions, i think it's a lot different than an adult choosing to do speed.

do people first choose to do speed thinking "I have something wrong and this WILL fix it, because I have a medical problem that speed will cure"

or do they just want to feel better? Intent plays a big role, because the adult on pills just wants to feel better too, but he has faith he's doing something medically right for himself, instead of if he just decided to drop a sheet of acid and let God work it out. (or more realistically, become a heroin user)


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


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Offlineswiftrance
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: leery11]
    #5923933 - 08/02/06 12:20 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

:thumbup: leery11 :thumbup:
well said, im on your side
:smile2:


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: leery11]
    #5923982 - 08/02/06 12:34 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

leery11 said:
ADD is "real" and it's not caused by sugar.

whether it is what they say it is is up to debate.

for instance, depression is real. but rather than blaming it on chemicals, it often has a simpler source.




Depression and ADD are as real as "happiness" and "melodrama" are. "You sir, are afflicted with happiness and we need to do something about it"... doesn't make sense right? then why does depression make sense as a emotional disease?
Could you guys just for one second stop and logically look at this? a disease of emotions? I think we can all agree that emotions are basically abstract, even though they seem to have physical manifestations, they are merely just effects to a cause.
Yes, a depressed state happens, it is part of life, without it, we would have nothing to measure happiness. If you mean that feeling down, irrationally shitty, or agitated exists... then yes, I agree with you, but it isn't something extrinsic, it isn't some force beyond your control bearing down on you and sucking the happiness out of you..... IT IS YOU!
ADD arises from the amazingly idiotic notion that every person should have some mild interest and be captivated equally by all subjects. We are all idiot savants: each person here has a passion, something which has chimed with them and their soul since the very first time they encountered it..... be it aviation, NASCAR, water polo, chinese checkers, or shadow puppets. I seriously doubt there is one person on the face of this earth who is unable to maintain focus on every single subject. Just because you have no affinity for history, algebra, biology, etc doesnt mean there is some physiological malady affecting and controlling your aptitude. ADD is just another word for disinterest. How many people "afflicted" with ADD on this board could rattle off precise directions on PF tek, spawn bags, the pros and cons of horse manure, the physical characteristics of individual strains, bird seed vs rye grain..... get my point?


Quote:

for instance, if you are habitually avoiding social situations and hiding indoors all day, this will CHANGE your brain chemistry.




here, i completely agree with you.

Quote:

now on the other hand, if you have a poor diet or a brain that somehow stopped being able to produce the chemicals it needed, BUT lived an absolutely normal life and still had bad depression, depression that wasn't psychological, that wasn't based upon philosophy or world view, just frankly, something wasn't right... THEN you are a candidate for drugs.




this is like saying, if you never shave, shower, and constantly shit your pants and still somehow manage not to have a girlfriend, then you are a great candidate for using prostitutes.

Quote:

see.... diseases are caused by the interactions of DIFFERENT causes, we have chosen to focus on chemical intervention, and therefore tend to think chemical deficiencies "cause" something when in fact, the true causes are very complex and rarely blameable upon chemicals.




again, i agree.



Quote:

now. any use of imagination can comfirm that some people may ahve really messed up brains and their "consciousness" is radically different than ours. if this is the case, then medicinal intervention is good.




what do you mean by "messed up" brains? there is Downs Syndrome, mental retardation etc which can be proven to have physical abnormalities in the brain which limit function. There is no normal "consciousness", there is only abnormal consciousness when compared against the illusory rules society has set forth.





Quote:

we're all drug users, so i think we can understand what it's like to not be able to remember or comprehend things on account of temporarily altered brain-chemistry. for some people their base state of consciousness may be closer to that, than it is for us when we are "sober" and have our cognitive functioning in tact.




leery, I love you and your posts, but please step outside of yourself for a little while and re-read this statement. Can you really claim that your perception of reality is a true representation of reality?


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5924120 - 08/02/06 01:06 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Here, I want to show you guys something. This is straight out of the DSM, and it lists the symptoms of ADD/ADHD. If after reading this, you still think that these vaguely defined actions are able to accurately diagnose 9 million children in America of having a physiological deficiency, then.... fuck..... I don't know....

Quote:

1.

Six or more of the following symptoms of inattention have been present for at least 6 months to a point that is disruptive and inappropriate for developmental level:

Inattention

1.

Often does not give close attention to details or makes careless mistakes in schoolwork, work, or other activities.
2.

Often has trouble keeping attention on tasks or play activities.
3.

Often does not seem to listen when spoken to directly.
4.

Often does not follow instructions and fails to finish schoolwork, chores, or duties in the workplace (not due to oppositional behavior or failure to understand instructions).
5.

Often has trouble organizing activities.
6.

Often avoids, dislikes, or doesn't want to do things that take a lot of mental effort for a long period of time (such as schoolwork or homework).
7.

Often loses things needed for tasks and activities (e.g. toys, school assignments, pencils, books, or tools).
8.

Is often easily distracted.
9.

Is often forgetful in daily activities.

2.

Six or more of the following symptoms of hyperactivity-impulsivity have been present for at least 6 months to an extent that is disruptive and inappropriate for developmental level:

Hyperactivity

1.

Often fidgets with hands or feet or squirms in seat.
2.

Often gets up from seat when remaining in seat is expected.
3.

Often runs about or climbs when and where it is not appropriate (adolescents or adults may feel very restless).
4.

Often has trouble playing or enjoying leisure activities quietly.
5.

Is often "on the go" or often acts as if "driven by a motor".
6.

Often talks excessively.

Impulsivity

1.

Often blurts out answers before questions have been finished.
2.

Often has trouble waiting one's turn.
3.

Often interrupts or intrudes on others (e.g., butts into conversations or games).




Now, lets even say that this list has some shred of validity to it, and that in some amazingly illogical, bizzarro world that these symptoms did equate to cephalic abnormalities.... how is it in anyway ethical for a pediatrician to prescribe schedule II drugs to 6 year olds based on 18 questions, many of them relating to school (a time when most parents are not able to observe their kids behaviour), answered by the childrens parents?

How many of you have gone to a doctor with severe physical pain afflicting you and begged and pleaded to get something stronger than Vioxx? what happened? maybe if you are lucky, or had your wisdom teeth pulled out, you will get 20 lortabs, and not the 10's either.

where is the enforcement of medical ethics here? why can a doctor be threatened with losing his license and having enormous malpractice suits filed against him for writing a prescription for codeine (an over the counter drug in Canada: search 222's), yet be completely guilt free when a 7 year old has a heart attack?


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5924263 - 08/02/06 02:20 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I have ust decided to bombard you with facts. Also, I urge anyone who disagrees with me to counter my claims, show me some alternative statistics with sources, show me improvement rates and such.

Quote:

Big Pharma now spends more than $5.5 billion to promote drugs to doctors–more than what all U.S. medical schools spend to educate medical students. (New England Journal of Medicine, June 23, 2005 "The Lessons of Vioxx")

Major drug companies employ about 90,000 sales representatives – one for every 4.7 doctors in the United States. (American Medical Association)

The total pharmaceutical marketing budget is $25 billion. (Forbes magazine "Just Say NO!" by Robert Langreth Nov. 29, 2004)

Drug firms have spent $800 million since 1998 buying influence, including $675 million on direct lobbying of Congress. No other interest group has spent more money to sway public policy. (Center for Public Integrity)




only 3 years ago did medicare stop funding Electroshock therapy.

Even more startling was the fact that the largest growth spurt in antidepressant use was among preschoolers. Other statistics showed antidepressants sales reaching the total of 37 billion in sales in 2003, which came out to $9 million more than was spent on treatments for the heart, arteries and blood pressure

I would also like to add in regards to all those people out there who have so dilligently informed me that it costs 800 million dollars to test and create a new drug, that not one of the Big Pharma companies has ever proven this, and to this day refuses to show anyone its books.

Quote:

The industry claim of $800 million costs per drug relies on a study from an industry-funded research center at Tufts University in Boston. Tufts researchers supposedly had access to industry data to come up with their figure, but no one else is able to see the underlying data. So if you choose to believe in this number, it is simply a matter of faith.




have we not learned our lesson with Big Tobacco? lets see the similarities stack up here....

Quote:

* Both Big Tobacco and Big Pharma produce and sell products that often cause injury or death when used as directed.
* Both industries knew that some of their most profitable products were injuring and killing people, and either hid such evidence, lied about it or both.
* Both industries hired their own experts to produce often phony, always misleading non-peer-reviewed, “research” designed solely to cast doubt on any genuine research by outside experts that came to conclusions that could hurt sales.
* Both industries attacked, slandered and punished those within or associated with their industries who broke the company stonewall by trying to sound a warning .
* Finally, both industries enjoyed overly cozy relationships with government—relationships that enabled them to maximize profits for a long as possible, regardless of the harm such products were known to be causing. (In this regard, Big Pharma has gone even further, by compromising the FDA, the very federal regulatory agency that is supposed to protect consumers.)





and this just in!!! ON JUNE 30TH, 2006!!!!
Quote:

June 30, 2006 is a day that will be long remembered as a dark milestone in the history of FDA and its campaign against health consumers. On June 30, an FDA "Final Rule" goes into effect, establishing a regulatory power grab of such scale and scope that it attempts to bypass all laws, the will of Congress and fundamental protections for consumers. This "Final Rule," which may as well be called a "Final Solution" for drug consumers, claims that consumers can no longer sue drug companies for the harm caused by any FDA-approved drug, even if the drug's manufacturer intentionally misled the FDA by hiding or fabricating clinical trial data.




wow.... I guess we Americans did learn our lesson..... We see the similarities here, and passed a law which disallows drugmakers to be sued......

Also, I will find the link somewhere, but in the last 5 years, over 116 drug advertisements have been recalled or "reprimanded" due to false advertising.


but you guys go ahead and eat those pills, because Big Pharma knows what is best for you. Why would you have any reason not to trust them or our government, or your doctors who get huge bonuses and advancing pay scales for the amount of psychopharmaceutical prescriptions they write?


here are a list of other made up diseases that don't have any marketable drugs to cure it (yet)

Quote:

Beware, a new book shows that an epidemic of mental illness is sweeping the nation. Does your 10-year-old dislike doing her math homework? Better get her to the nearest couch because she's got No. 315.4, Developmental Arithmetic Disorder. Maybe you're a teenager who argues with his parents. Uh-oh. Better get some medication pronto because you've got No. 313.8, Oppositional Defiant Disorder.

And if your wife won't tell you that she snuck out to the outlet mall last Saturday, then she's definitely got 313.2, Selective Mutism. Omigosh! My family is full of psychos. Trust me, I'm not making this up. (That would be Fictitious Disorder Syndrome.)…

Only a decade ago, psychiatrists said one in 10 Americans had a mental illness. Now, according to the manual, half of the population is mentally ill. How the other half stays sane remains a mystery. The manual will have to be updated annually because mental health professionals and defense lawyers keep discovering new illnesses. Just since the beginning of the year the experts have unearthed these new disorders:

Lottery Stress Disorder (or LSD): A London psychiatrist discovered the outbreak among losers who experienced “definition of mood and feelings of hopelessness” when their numbers didn't come in.

Chronic Tax Anxiety Syndrome (CTAS): A Washington psychotherapist specializes in treating couples who suffer from excessive worry, sleeplessness and marital squabbling every April.…

I know there are some cynics out there who will scoff at these new diagnoses. Maybe you think it's all psychobabble, just a gimmick to make money for the therapists. You wouldn't be caught dead on a psychiatrist's couch.

You people are in serious denial. As a matter of fact, your unwillingness to seek professional help is itself a symptom of a serious mental problem. It's right here in the book: 15.81 Noncompliance with Treatment Disorder.3




in the first edition of the DSM, there were only 116 mental disorders. Now there are 374 listed, excluding homosexuality of course, which was on the list, but then voted off in the latest edition.

......so, I will let you guys, if anyone is left reading, either really think about this information provided, or encourage the popular dissent to prove all of this wrong and innaccurate, in fact, not even all of it, just one or two things. I would also really enjoy the dissenting people to find me proof of ADHD, which should be hard, since this really lame quote keeps popping up...

Quote:

Even the APA admits in its DSM-IV that there are “no laboratory tests that have been established as diagnostic” for ADHD.




hmmmm.... could it be an open and shut case? I dont think any amount of slandering Scientology will be able to lift you out of that one.....


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Offlineleery11
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5924967 - 08/02/06 10:34 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

psilocyberin said:
a depressed state happens, it is part of life, without it, we would have nothing to measure happiness. If you mean that feeling down, irrationally shitty, or agitated exists... then yes, I agree with you, but it isn't something extrinsic, it isn't some force beyond your control bearing down on you and sucking the happiness out of you..... IT IS YOU!



i don't think so man. being depressed is not normal or healthy. being sad is. but for me i was in a neurotic state where my happiness was conditional upon something that i could NOT have and it created a suicidal cycle of feedback. it was clearly something severely wrong with my perceptions of the world, and it was crippling, sucking, draining, and I would easily consider it a disease.

I think it is a symptom of society. I think we are taught that we can shoot for the stars, then we realize it's a lie... all the things we are told will make us happy, we chase never being able to grasp them, til one day we are broken.

Depression can easily be rooted out to delusions and false views upon what happiness is........ for instance if happines is ONLY getting this girls favor, it isn't having an ice cream. petting a puppy. going to a concert. riding a roller coaster. sitting at home having a tea.... going for a slow walk... if it's ONLY getting the girl.... you're straight fucked, because you were programmed wrong.

this is also why I think "ADD" springs up, because we are programmed to ignore the simple and slow pleasures and emotions of life, and are bent on being constantly overstimulated to the point of having an agitated mind that thinks happiness, enjoyment, entertainment, is something that comes to you at lightning speed, instant download.... something that you get NOW and NOW and NOW..... something that requires absolutely no effort!

depression is so very real though.... do you contest this? I agree it IS YOU but it's how you're wired to be. deep down inside happiness is conditional, rather than eternal, based upon delusions and defilements... oh i can only be happy if i earn a lot... oh i can only be happy if i have friends.... oh i can only be happy if i get a good wife and have kids..... after this and this plus this and this happen then I will allow happy.

this is however a strong indication for therapy, not drugs.
Quote:


ADD arises from the amazingly idiotic notion that every person should have some mild interest and be captivated equally by all subjects. We are all idiot savants: each person here has a passion, something which has chimed with them and their soul since the very first time they encountered it..... be it aviation, NASCAR, water polo, chinese checkers, or shadow puppets. I seriously doubt there is one person on the face of this earth who is unable to maintain focus on every single subject. Just because you have no affinity for history, algebra, biology, etc doesnt mean there is some physiological malady affecting and controlling your aptitude. ADD is just another word for disinterest. How many people "afflicted" with ADD on this board could rattle off precise directions on PF tek, spawn bags, the pros and cons of horse manure, the physical characteristics of individual strains, bird seed vs rye grain..... get my point?



i really think this is only partially it. for instance when i read posts my mind often wanders out of control and i will have to reread the same sentence a ton... this was partly because of pot and dissipated upon cessation of pot.... but at any rate.... some people clearly are better able to comprehend and sit in lucidity than others. it may be because of our culture and our overreliance on TV as a form of interaction... because TV gets in your face and makes you pay attention, while you are completely passive... a teacher might just lecture and expect that you hear.

i can't tell you how many times i've sat in class and when it's over i'm like "what in the world did we just talk about the whole hour?" and it's partly because of non-interest, you are right, but partly it's something else.

and it's illusory too..... i'm sure i could fix it, and meditate upon the teachers voice, make eye contact and rediscover learning, because i didn't use to be this way....

but do you deny that some people do not have grave problems paying attention to things that they should pay attention to? now maybe schools aren't for everyone, and you're right that they will be able to do something which they can focus attention on, definitely so.

so it's kind of a social disease, where non-comformity is viewed as problematic. it kind of is though, becasue to "survive" in this societ you generally have to conform to the working/schooling world.

Quote:


this is like saying, if you never shave, shower, and constantly shit your pants and still somehow manage not to have a girlfriend, then you are a great candidate for using prostitutes.



no those are behavioral problems. If you are a normal person, you have emotional support from close friends, from loved ones. You have financial stability. YOu don't have rigid demanding views upon happiness... you are in essence normal, but yet you exhibit behaviors of someone who is off the handle... you may benefit from medication!

it's tough though, because we don't care about cause, medication is basiaclly a coverup. it would be much better to root out the cause. but do you not think it possible the some people are just deficient in certain neurotransmitters?

Quote:


leery, I love you and your posts, but please step outside of yourself for a little while and re-read this statement. Can you really claim that your perception of reality is a true representation of reality?



i'm not sure exactly what you mean. I'm saying for some people, they may be naturally prone to paying attention to the subtle reality, rather than gross reality. For instance they may be heavily right brained, where they are tuned into the sounds the teacher is making, rather than the logical gist of what she is saying. Kind of like being stoned.... I'm wondering if one persons stoned reality is another's sober.

You know, there is SO much to pay attention to, but all our society wants us to do is to grasp the cold logical and plain side... if you are not tuned into that, there is so much... the brightness of the room... the vocal frequncies and sounds that the speaker's throat is making... and how they correlate to emotions the speaker seems to be expressing. the sounds of people coughing and chattering and talking..... the way the overall sound of the room meshes into a pattern based upon your brains clipping and rendering of the big picture........ what your tongue feels like.

your breathing... some people may not be fit to pay "attention" in the ways that society demands.

some people may also not be able to suppress excessive sensory information, and i used being high as an example. if you read a TON into a simple gesture, and you make an assumption about that gesture, you may still be thinking about it and have missed the whole of what the person was saying to you, and you'd be like "what" because you base the rest of their interactions upon that gesture itself.

like i went to class stoned once and the girl i was sitting next to was tapping her hands, and i somehow thought it was her like, messing with my head and playing with me and i was laughing goofy and i was like "what are you doing!!!!" and for a long time afterward that hand tapping kind of put an influence on her like it seemed like she was interacting with me in a way that i would have normally been oblivious to while sober..... this could conceivable create a deficit in attention. though it didn't.

it did lead to me thinking about the Bible instead of the lecture my teacher was giving, because she was talking about spanking and religious traditions relating to it. but i do that anyway lol.

another instance, some people have wonderful long term memory, but are hard pressed to remember anything in the short term. i'm one of them.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


Edited by leery11 (08/02/06 10:37 AM)


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OfflineWakeboardrB
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: leery11]
    #5925517 - 08/02/06 02:01 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Psilocyberin, obviously you have little or no understanding of the actual physical effects that mood disorders can bring about. Obviously you have never experienced it first hand, so it's perfectly understandable for you to not be able to get it.

While I respect your argument and do admit that I can't compete with you from an intellectual standpoint, I do have one thing that carries far more weight than anything you've presented in your posts...

EXPERIENCE

I've suffered from major depressive disorder, bipolar tendancies, ADD and certain personality disorders since before I even knew how to spell them. It's wrecked my life in more ways than one, caused me to drop out of college on two seperate occasions, and throw away every single important thing in my life.

Until you go through something like that, I couldn't possibly expect you to be able to understand the true nature of depression and attention disorders.

But perhaps the only thing worse than the clinical disorders and their symptoms is having to explain constantly to people that don't get it... Having to apologize for your actions on a daily basis and drive yourself crazy trying to get people to understand the shit you go through every single day. Trying to undo the hurt and pain that are felt by not only yourself, but your family and friends.. Now that's a full time job in itself.

Imagine a cancer or AIDS patient having to constantly explain themselves and apologize for having a debilitating medical condition.


I hope that I have shown you exactly what your type of mentality does to people that are already going through hell.

You might ask me for proof that Attention disorders and depression exist and I say I don't have to. I'm living proof and I'm reminded of it on a daily basis.

And I knew it before I ever learned a thing about psychology, I just didn't know the correct terms.


--------------------
Same thing happened to me when I played Neil Armstrong in Moonshot. They found me in an alley in Burbank trying to re-enter the earth's atmosphere in an old refrigerator box.


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OfflineViveka
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: WakeboardrB]
    #5926060 - 08/02/06 04:57 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Why do you have to constantly explain to people all the day the shit you are going through?


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: leery11]
    #5926091 - 08/02/06 05:08 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

leery11 said:
Depression can easily be rooted out to delusions and false views upon what happiness is........ for instance if happines is ONLY getting this girls favor, it isn't having an ice cream. petting a puppy. going to a concert. riding a roller coaster. sitting at home having a tea.... going for a slow walk... if it's ONLY getting the girl.... you're straight fucked, because you were programmed wrong.

this is also why I think "ADD" springs up, because we are programmed to ignore the simple and slow pleasures and emotions of life, and are bent on being constantly overstimulated to the point of having an agitated mind that thinks happiness, enjoyment, entertainment, is something that comes to you at lightning speed, instant download.... something that you get NOW and NOW and NOW..... something that requires absolutely no effort!




I completely agree, yet what I want to know now, is why you still believe that there is a physiological abnormality, when you have stated multiple times that it is a problem of programming and conditioning?

Quote:

depression is so very real though.... do you contest this? I agree it IS YOU but it's how you're wired to be. deep down inside happiness is conditional, rather than eternal, based upon delusions and defilements... oh i can only be happy if i earn a lot... oh i can only be happy if i have friends.... oh i can only be happy if i get a good wife and have kids..... after this and this plus this and this happen then I will allow happy.




I will have to quote myself here, because I think a post I just wrote explains my stance on this so well..

Quote:

is it possible that our society and the rules/confines it has set for normalcy and sanity are impractical when compared to actual human behaviour tested across all cultures?
if this were true, then it would be safe to say that there is no such abnormality such as ADHD, unless set into the confines of the American societal norms?

See, many of you are clinging to the delusion that our society and all of its wonderous modern medical technology and knowledge has created a correct model of macro-human behaviour, and anything which isn't in accordance with this model is an abnormality. When in fact it is the discrepency between a correct model of macro-human behaviour in which the "problem" of ADHD becomes apparent.






Quote:

i really think this is only partially it. for instance when i read posts my mind often wanders out of control and i will have to reread the same sentence a ton... this was partly because of pot and dissipated upon cessation of pot.... but at any rate.... some people clearly are better able to comprehend and sit in lucidity than others. it may be because of our culture and our overreliance on TV as a form of interaction... because TV gets in your face and makes you pay attention, while you are completely passive... a teacher might just lecture and expect that you hear.

i can't tell you how many times i've sat in class and when it's over i'm like "what in the world did we just talk about the whole hour?" and it's partly because of non-interest, you are right, but partly it's something else.




Do you really think that the only plausible explanation for you not being able to interact with aspects that society deems important. i used to have the same problem: reading a book, and realizing you have no idea what youjust read for three pages...sitting in class and realizing you have no idea what was discussed. I hate to even bring this up, but it is very relevant to this discussion, one of the things I believe Scientology had correct was in regards to this: if you dont understand a word, you will lose full grasp of the paragraph, and if you don't fully understand an entire paragraph, you will be at a loss for comprehension of an entire page. One word/idiom/concept which you don't fully grasp can create an entire misunderstanding, or often times, a complete blankness of what one has read.
I had thought to myself, that is bullshit, but the next time I read, i tried it out, with dictionary in hand, and any word in which i didn't completely understand, i looked up, and that was the first time I had complete grasp of an entire book. Believe it or not, that book was actually Stephen Kings "The Stand" unabridged version, which to this day i could recall every single aspect of the 1100+ page book.
I urge you to try this, even though it is tedious, but try it with a pamphlet or something, and see how much more you grasp then.


Quote:

but do you not think it possible the some people are just deficient in certain neurotransmitters?




compared to what? i dont think anything short of mental retardation should be considered an abnormality, i think we are all born with the capacity to equally interpret and perceive reality.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: WakeboardrB]
    #5926120 - 08/02/06 05:17 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

WakeboardrB said:
Psilocyberin, obviously you have little or no understanding of the actual physical effects that mood disorders can bring about. Obviously you have never experienced it first hand, so it's perfectly understandable for you to not be able to get it.

While I respect your argument and do admit that I can't compete with you from an intellectual standpoint, I do have one thing that carries far more weight than anything you've presented in your posts...

EXPERIENCE

I've suffered from major depressive disorder, bipolar tendancies, ADD and certain personality disorders since before I even knew how to spell them. It's wrecked my life in more ways than one, caused me to drop out of college on two seperate occasions, and throw away every single important thing in my life.

Until you go through something like that, I couldn't possibly expect you to be able to understand the true nature of depression and attention disorders.

But perhaps the only thing worse than the clinical disorders and their symptoms is having to explain constantly to people that don't get it... Having to apologize for your actions on a daily basis and drive yourself crazy trying to get people to understand the shit you go through every single day. Trying to undo the hurt and pain that are felt by not only yourself, but your family and friends.. Now that's a full time job in itself.

Imagine a cancer or AIDS patient having to constantly explain themselves and apologize for having a debilitating medical condition.


I hope that I have shown you exactly what your type of mentality does to people that are already going through hell.

You might ask me for proof that Attention disorders and depression exist and I say I don't have to. I'm living proof and I'm reminded of it on a daily basis.

And I knew it before I ever learned a thing about psychology, I just didn't know the correct terms.




This is about the equivalent of someone statistically proving that God doesn't exist, and then you say, "I can't counter that, but i have a personal relationship with God and I know he exists".
I think you need for this to be true, or else the last 5-10 years of therapy and drug consumption is a lie, and complete bullshit.
Frankly, I don't even want to discuss this with you, because I seriously doubt your ability to try and see things from an alternative perspective regarding this matter.
Also, just because I didnt give my bad mood days a pet name and blame it on external factors beyond my control doesn't mean that I have yet to experience depression, mood swings or bouts of hyperactivity.

Much like a devout christian will refuse to listen to anything that makes them question the validity of their faith, because in doing so it throws their entire reality into turmoil and shows them that their entire devotion and goal in life has been chasing a non-existent thing.


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OfflineWakeboardrB
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5926369 - 08/02/06 06:37 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Wow, I don't even know why I tried.

What happens when your bad mood days occur every day and are enough to make you stare down the barrel of a shotgun and dream what life would be like without constant pain?

Are they still just bad mood days?

I guess that's what it is.. Thanks for showing me the light, I guess I can get over myself now. :rolleyes:


--------------------
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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: WakeboardrB]
    #5926437 - 08/02/06 06:58 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

case in point here in regards to my last post.

were you always depressed your entire life? even at the age of 4 were you having thoughts of suicide? or was there a certain age/turning point in which it manifested itself as this extrinsic force which made you incapable of enjoying life.

Do you honestly think that you are genetically predisposed to enjoying life any less than anyone else? if so, then yeah, you need a big dose of reality, logic and maybe even a swift kick in the ass to get over yourself.


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Offlineleery11
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5926825 - 08/02/06 08:56 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

psilocyberin said:

I completely agree, yet what I want to know now, is why you still believe that there is a physiological abnormality, when you have stated multiple times that it is a problem of programming and conditioning?



Well am I saying it's physiological? I'm saying it can be. But you really may be right. It's so hard to tell, because I think things like "well in tribes depression doesn't exist, because they all support each other unconditionally, and know how to use the right techniques to fix such issues" but how do I really know that's how it is, or I just imagine it because of the TV, or something else entirely.

it really might be, that any physiological problem is soley, entirely, and always caused by social factors instead. we live soooo unnaturally it isn't funny.

i find your quote very agreeable... and the insight into scientology is very fascinating.

There is definitely some truth to that. But to me it is also that my thoughts carry momentum and merge with what I am doing. This corrects itself with exposure. For instance if I am interested in what I am reading, I will eventually pay proper attention to it, rather than continue momentum of thinking about my life while also thinking about the book.

But, it can indeed be problematic though! Like I was reading Castenedas Art of Dreaming right now, and deliberately I kept thinking about how my dreams applied, while trying to continue reading at the same time..... and the two trians of thought sometimes didn't merge properly.

I feel there is a proper flow where the brain can multi-task at thinking different thoughts, for instance maybe it is proper to give day-dreaming 90% priority and decrease reading down to 10% until the day-dream is complete (assuming the day-dream is based upon the context of what you are reading) then to jump right back up to normal reading "pace" and "mometum" hardly noticing the process.

I really think marijuana induces this sort of state of being in you, but it is very hard to put into words. It does some very neat things. But you have to learn how to blaze proper trails while stoned or I think you can create bad and lazy habits which can cause some [but as far as I see, correctable] cognitive issues if you toke a lot.

come on mary jane, be legal already!


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


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InvisibleFucknuckle
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5926988 - 08/02/06 09:46 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I didn't take the time to read every post here but I want to say I agree with much of what I read.....But I know of a serious exception

I have a very close friend with 5 kids and one of them, a boy, is fucking crazy whacked on speed unless he is on some of this so called "speed" scam drugs that have been portrayed in this thread..I can tell you with the utmost confidence that with out this shit he will climb the wall and tear out your fucking eyeballs. He has always been this was since he was just a few weeks old. I don't really care about anyone thoughts or political views ..I know a child who would not be alive if not for these drugs....he would have ran in front of a car or carved his arms up with a butter knife. The little bastard is whacked I'm telling ya

Hyper Active Add and a few other things

When he is taking his Drugs regulary he is fine.normal. But if he misses his meds watch out............. :blush:

And no it's not because he is on withdrawls..he was like this at birth.


--------------------
What it is, is what it is my Brother.
It is as it is, so suffer thru it.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: Fucknuckle]
    #5927647 - 08/03/06 01:39 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

did the parents try marijuana? maybe change his diet? what other alternatives were exhausted before they decided to place a toddler on amphetamines?

but here is another point I wanted to bring up but forgot about until now: Lets say that this child actually has some metabolism disorder (or any alternative which could possibly be a cause of hyperactivity), the rampant and often instant diagnosis from doctors would most likely prevent that from being further investigated, and all the while a real physical malady continues to fester into something truly debilitating or life threatening.

Also, here is something else to think about. After spending a good while searching on the internet, I could not find anything close to statistics or figures which stated how much money has been spent on trying to find a cure for ADHD/depression/bi-polar/anxiety/ADD.
I would actually go as far to say that ZERO dollars have been spent towards researching a cure for any of these diseases.


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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5927654 - 08/03/06 01:46 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

no one has brought up Scientology here, there is no need for ad hominems or personal attacks.

"Fruits of Scientology" wasn't meant to attack you specifically, but it certianly was ment to attack Scientology's irrational demonization of psychology.

Care to show me 1 scientific study which proves that the imbalance of brain chemicals is a CAUSE of mood disorders?

"Acute stress inhibits long-term potentiation (LTP) at synapses from the hippocampus to prefrontal cortex in the rat, a model of the dysfunction in the anterior cingulate/orbitofrontal cortices which has been observed in human depression. We demonstrate that the antidepressants tianeptine and, to a lesser extent, fluoxetine, are able to reverse the impairment in LTP, a measure of frontal synaptic plasticity, caused by stress on an elevated platform. LTP was induced by stimulation of hippocampal outflow. Beneficial effects on neuronal plasticity, defined as a reversal of the effects of stress in this paradigm, can be considered as a new animal model for the impact of stress on hippocampal/frontal circuits, a key target in psychiatric diseases." -- http://cercor.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/14/2/224

"...Reductions in the size and density of some neuronal populations have also been described, accompanied by alterations in indices of synaptic terminals and dendrites. This form of pathology putatively reflects aberrant neurodevelopment or impaired cellular plasticity. A separate pathological process is suggested by the excess of subcortical focal lesions seen on MRI, especially in elderly patients; these probably reflect white matter damage of vascular origin. Both types of pathology have been observed, to a greater or lesser extent, in unipolar as well as bipolar mood disorders...it must now be considered likely that changes in brain structure, both macroscopic and microscopic, are a feature of primary mood disorder, a fact to be taken into account when interpreting functional imaging, neuropsychological and neurochemical data." -- http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/125/7/1428

"Microstructural changes in the white matter of the right superior frontal gyrus are associated with late-life depression. Further work is needed to determine how these changes contribute to depression outcomes." -- http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/161/7/1293


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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5927664 - 08/03/06 01:59 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

LOL!

the first study shows how antidepressant work on lab rats.

the second one states "are a feature of primary mood disorder", not a cause.

and the third says "associated".

I have read countless studies regarding the correlation between mood disorders and brain chemistry, and not one has ever said one causes the other. Related and associated aren't proof of anything- especially not proof of cause.
Me jerking off and porn are related and associated, but porn is not the cause of me jerking off.


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Offlineleery11
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5928171 - 08/03/06 10:10 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

psilocyberin said:
did the parents try marijuana? maybe change his diet?



wait, try giving the kid marijuana ?

hehe that would go well with the authorities! or did marijuana cause a birth defect in him? I was under the impression it didn't really do anything too severe or irreversible.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


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InvisibleClean
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: leery11]
    #5928240 - 08/03/06 10:43 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

wait, try giving the kid marijuana ?



I think it's an excellet idea as long as it's in appropriate doses from a trustworthy, organic source.
If they're so insistent on allowing their child to be drugged they should at least try some cannabutter...
I've known a few people who were diagnosed ADHD and bi-polar and they would rather use cannabis than take those meds.


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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: Clean]
    #5929512 - 08/03/06 07:18 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I mean, as long as we have no shame in giving 3 year olds chemicals, then why not try everything? meth, cocaine, inhalants, heroin? you know?

im willing to put money that every single one of those drugs would be as effective as amphetamines.

Also, did the parents even try looking at alternate diseases such as hyperthyroid problems and such?


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InvisibleClean
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Registered: 05/11/03
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Re: My Thesis: Why Americans believe Depression and ADD exist. [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5929752 - 08/03/06 08:45 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Instead of piling drugs on top of the problem what if parents took a look at their child's daily environment and started taking away things that the kid is routinely exposed to.
How do we know that electromagnetic pollution is not causing some these disorders? What about the crap that passes for food these
kids are eating?

Oh but this type of action would cut into big pharma profits wouldn't it....

I'm beyond disgusted by the whole industry. I bet we'd all be suprised to find out exactly where the raw materials to make these drugs are coming from. Industrial waste, anyone? If it's good enough to be dumping on food as pesticide and fertilizer why not cut costs and use it for drugs? There's never a shortage of cronies who will deem something "safe" if it means bigger profit.


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