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supershroombros
Dreamer

Registered: 07/31/06
Posts: 9
Last seen: 16 years, 10 months
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NEW ALTERED PMP TEK CHAMBER IDEA...is it possible??
#5917764 - 07/31/06 05:21 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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check it.

the purpose of the water as a subsitute for perlite/geolite is that water would create high levels of humidity due to more water movement in the air,facilitated by the heating pad.
the bubble wands would,in theory, create more air movement in the area containing the cakes.
an air hole at the top would let the CO2 escape, as fresh air bubbles from the water underneath.
does this setup sound feasible? cleaning of this terrarium after flushing would be a snap. water might even be mixed part with peroxide .
im not sure if anything is being left out, or a problem with this setup is being overlooked, so input would be greatly appriciated.
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creamcorn
mad scientist


Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 2,962
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Re: NEW ALTERED PMP TEK CHAMBER IDEA...is it possible?? [Re: supershroombros]
#5917932 - 07/31/06 08:15 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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plain water does not have enough surface area to create the humidity you're after. geolite, lava rocks, perlite, etc are porous materials that increases the 'wet' surface area hundreds if not thousands of times over. there's a reason we use it. 
not to mention a heating pad, may make things too warm depending on its wattage and the ambient temperature in your home already - especially now in summer time. there is a place for low powered reptile type ones, when fruiting in winter, to raise the temp a few degrees above ambient.
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supershroombros
Dreamer

Registered: 07/31/06
Posts: 9
Last seen: 16 years, 10 months
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Re: NEW ALTERED PMP TEK CHAMBER IDEA...is it possible?? [Re: creamcorn]
#5918865 - 07/31/06 03:17 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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hmmm....i figured the water,heated up,which in turn causes it to evaporate...IS pure humidity (air moisture). someone else also proposed an idea with dishes of water that the air pump would dip into. im saying the whole bottom of the tank would be the dish.
but, i am somewhat of a noob, so i could be wrong. thanks a bunch for your help.
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creamcorn
mad scientist


Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 2,962
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Re: NEW ALTERED PMP TEK CHAMBER IDEA...is it possible?? [Re: supershroombros]
#5918942 - 07/31/06 03:42 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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dont forget, the warmer the air is, the more moisture it can hold - this is why humidity is relative... its relative to the temperature. so even if you are wicking more 'absolute humidity' into the air by warming it, as the temp goes up, the relative humidity will remain unchanged or actually decrease on you. so, the heat can be counterproductive.
go ahead and try it, if you have a hygrometer to measure the RH. worst case scenario is it doesn't work, and you have to add something like geolite or perlite instead.
the other flaw in the design is CO2 won't really escape so well through the top. its heavier than oxygen and will tend to sink. this is why you'll see holes along the sides at substrate/cake level on fruiting chambers. a combination of holes on the sides, as well as ones in top, creates a current (albiet a slow one) where CO2 can drain out the sides and pull fresh air in from the top (and with such a setup you can get away without an air pump at all.) the way you propose will still work to an extent, because fresh air being pumped in will mix with CO2 and cause a positive pressure to push the mixture out through the top... assuming you've got a relatively strong pump to create enough pressure for that to be effective.
the PMP as it is is a pretty good design, and a time tested one by many growers... i wouldn't try venturing too far from it if you're just starting out, its just one less thing to worry about troubleshooting down the road...
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supershroombros
Dreamer

Registered: 07/31/06
Posts: 9
Last seen: 16 years, 10 months
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Re: NEW ALTERED PMP TEK CHAMBER IDEA...is it possible?? [Re: creamcorn]
#5919336 - 07/31/06 05:57 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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cool, i appreciate the criticism and advice...so for the final touches, in theory, to make it work would be: - hydrometer to measure humidity levels - more leveled holes for better steady air flow - perlite/geolite/lavarock, if the water itself is not enough - no heating pad, or low heat, just to maintain temp (right?)
thanks alot for the feedback, youve been a big help.
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The_Chariot
Stranger


Registered: 07/10/06
Posts: 127
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
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Re: NEW ALTERED PMP TEK CHAMBER IDEA...is it possible?? [Re: supershroombros]
#5919356 - 07/31/06 06:03 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Seems like a good method to me
-------------------- My will be ashes and a casket for all I want. The apocalypse, this way comes. So come. Sing the song. Repent kingdom, the end is here and it won't remain silent. The devil is in Atlanta. The army is surrounded. The civilians panic.
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creamcorn
mad scientist


Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 2,962
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Re: NEW ALTERED PMP TEK CHAMBER IDEA...is it possible?? [Re: supershroombros]
#5919370 - 07/31/06 06:07 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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yep.
all is said and done, you end up with something like this:

that one has perlite in it. there is a heating pad actually (see the cord on the left?) but no need to plug it in during summer timeroom temp is 72-74 on the average and thats just fine for fruiting. its plugged in during winter because room temp is more like 67-68 on average, and it brings the FC back up to that 72-74 range. probably not even necessary (cubes will still fruit that low, they just grow a little slower) but its cheap and it doesn't use much electricity, its only 8 watts. (its a reptile heating pad, really thin, had an adhesive side on it like a big sticker, so its stuck right up to the bottom.) thats a rather small pump there but have the polyfill holes as well.
looks like this under the perlite:

and when its going:

and it handles small casings too, this just came out after being left totally alone a few days without any intervention:

so i'd say it works
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supershroombros
Dreamer

Registered: 07/31/06
Posts: 9
Last seen: 16 years, 10 months
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Re: NEW ALTERED PMP TEK CHAMBER IDEA...is it possible?? [Re: creamcorn]
#5920409 - 07/31/06 11:19 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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woah. your setup is so close to ours, i was thrown off for a whole second. same strain, the lovely Golden Teach. but yours is very self-contained, i like it 
so you're saying that particular bin has perlite, but its possible to use pure water?
we do have perlite on hand, so if it will yield better results, thats my intentions of course. thanks for the pics though man. if you have any more, that'd be awesome. i like to see those GTs in action.
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UnderNose
all out of bubble gum


Registered: 03/04/06
Posts: 1,612
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Re: NEW ALTERED PMP TEK CHAMBER IDEA...is it possible?? [Re: supershroombros]
#5920444 - 07/31/06 11:23 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Check this pic out 150 liter tub, with geolite, aripump, heater.
  Once a casing is put in there you have no need to look at until harvest time, unless you like to peek EASY, SMALL, EFFECTIVE.

-------------------- LAGM 2.022  
Edited by UnderNose (07/31/06 11:33 PM)
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creamcorn
mad scientist


Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 2,962
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Re: NEW ALTERED PMP TEK CHAMBER IDEA...is it possible?? [Re: supershroombros]
#5920471 - 07/31/06 11:29 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
supershroombros said: woah. your setup is so close to ours, i was thrown off for a whole second. same strain, the lovely Golden Teach. but yours is very self-contained, i like it 
so you're saying that particular bin has perlite, but its possible to use pure water?
we do have perlite on hand, so if it will yield better results, thats my intentions of course. thanks for the pics though man. if you have any more, that'd be awesome. i like to see those GTs in action.
nope, as i said way up in the thread plain water probably isnt going to give you the humidity you need. and its a breeding ground for bacteria. this is why i use perlite, over the geolite in water method (which is what the traditional PMP calls for), because there is no standing water when using perlite. and perlite is cheap, if it gets dirty, scoop it out and put fresh stuff in. just seems like a wiser choice to me (hence the reason i use it. )
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beatnicknick
The Innovator


Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 1,074
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: NEW ALTERED PMP TEK CHAMBER IDEA...is it possible?? [Re: creamcorn]
#5920505 - 07/31/06 11:36 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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I could see it working, especially for casings- they don't need THAT much humidity, look at how monotubs work. h202 will fix your bacteria problem. plus you don't have to worry about dry perlite dust, or scooping perlite out to replace.
-------------------- I don't think for myself. I think as though I'm explaining my thoughts to someone else. I'm concerned only for those listening.
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UnderNose
all out of bubble gum


Registered: 03/04/06
Posts: 1,612
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Re: NEW ALTERED PMP TEK CHAMBER IDEA...is it possible?? [Re: beatnicknick]
#5920516 - 07/31/06 11:39 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Hay nick since when were you a girl? I'm confused!!
Edited by UnderNose (07/31/06 11:40 PM)
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creamcorn
mad scientist


Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 2,962
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Re: NEW ALTERED PMP TEK CHAMBER IDEA...is it possible?? [Re: beatnicknick]
#5920530 - 07/31/06 11:43 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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h2o2 breaks down much faster than most people realize. its really a false sense of security, unless you continuously add it every 4-5 days. running a bubbler through it, and warming it, will make it break down even faster.
casings go best when you have around 95% prepinning, and at least 90% after. im betting if you try to humidify with plain water, you're going to get somewhere in the 70s.
monotubs work because they're enclosed environments without so much moving air to displace the humidity. and the casing provides the humidity, because it covers ever square inch of the 'floor' of the fc. a few casing trays, in a larger fc, will not produce the same amounts. and besides, the original post was regarding cakes, which benefit from as close to 100% as you can get.
dry perlite dust really isnt that big of a deal... when you open the bag give it a few squirts from your mister, problem solved. and you only need to replace it every few months. i tend to scoop up parts that get covered in spores, and sprinkle some fresh perlite on there and mist it down... but i go several months before replacing ALL of it.
to each their own, whatever works for you and your situation.... im pretty confident a pool of water under your cakes isnt the best way to go about it.
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UnderNose
all out of bubble gum


Registered: 03/04/06
Posts: 1,612
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Re: NEW ALTERED PMP TEK CHAMBER IDEA...is it possible?? [Re: creamcorn]
#5920544 - 07/31/06 11:46 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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I agree, Geolite or perlite. plane water will not suffice A little bleach lasts longer than h2o2 IMO.
-------------------- LAGM 2.022  
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supershroombros
Dreamer

Registered: 07/31/06
Posts: 9
Last seen: 16 years, 10 months
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Re: NEW ALTERED PMP TEK CHAMBER IDEA...is it possible?? [Re: creamcorn]
#5920931 - 08/01/06 02:55 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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this is what i've got goin now so far, without the perlite: 
- double outlet air pump [2800cc/min]. - 15 gallon bin - two 18" bubble wands - small aquarium ballast w/ full spectrum fluorescent bulb - perlite
using that pump to add water into the perlite without opening the case.
can't hardly wait.
Edited by supershroombros (08/01/06 03:10 AM)
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mikeownow
Humungus fungus

Registered: 09/01/05
Posts: 2,856
Loc: WA,USA
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
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Re: NEW ALTERED PMP TEK CHAMBER IDEA...is it possible?? [Re: supershroombros]
#5920948 - 08/01/06 03:07 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Why alter the original concept when you can just use the original, the original works good. I have the original perlite concept and I just took it and put it in a hope chest, no room in the chest cause your pmp is huge like mine? Drill a hole in the side of the hope chest and run wires for light, and the hose from the 60 gal air pump in and voila super stealthy chest.Cops comes in hey whats going on in here, nope just me.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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nonsqtr
Stranger
Registered: 07/31/06
Posts: 6
Last seen: 17 years, 1 day
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Re: NEW ALTERED PMP TEK CHAMBER IDEA...is it possible?? [Re: mikeownow]
#5921215 - 08/01/06 07:41 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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If you're after high humidity and ease of use, why not put an ultrasonic humidifier on a timer? It's not a breeding ground for bacteria, you get pure water, and it produces the finest mist available. All you need to do is set up a separate tank and let gravity do the work. You could even get a really cool one like mine with multicolored lights. I do reccommend changing the water though. By the way first post. This place looks cool as hell.
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