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Offlinexaxphaanes
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just want some advice
    #5917155 - 07/30/06 11:57 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

right now i am doing a mono tub that is 74 quarts so about 18-19 gallons i would like 4 ounces dry off of this. so if i put 2-3 pounds of poo in there (dry) that should produce around 4-6 ounces correct?....sub is mostly poo with some chunky verm and straw
depth is 4.5 inches temp will be low 70's

all i want to know is, is this an achievable goal? or could i get more ? or less ? thanks guys your experience and advice is appreciated


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"Anything i say is fictional"
  what you should look for in manure


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OfflineYamidude
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Re: just want some advice [Re: xaxphaanes]
    #5917159 - 07/30/06 11:59 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

there is no real way to predict how much you will get....


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Offlinexaxphaanes
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Re: just want some advice [Re: Yamidude]
    #5917181 - 07/31/06 12:04 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

i want an approx and yes there are ways to predict just not extremely accuratly you can usualy get it within a quarter of an ounce though.....just want to know some experiences from people that have used this method with approx the same size of tub


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"Anything i say is fictional"
  what you should look for in manure


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InvisibleOmnicracker
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Re: just want some advice [Re: xaxphaanes]
    #5917191 - 07/31/06 12:06 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

i had a similar tub that yeilded 1.5lbs dry, but thats probably on account of my 17in. penis.


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Invisibleliamtheloser
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Re: just want some advice [Re: Omnicracker]
    #5917200 - 07/31/06 12:08 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

i have a 40 foot penis with balls like weather balloons.

But that didn't let me get a lb dry off of ANY of my grows :P


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InvisibleTippinthru
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Re: just want some advice [Re: xaxphaanes]
    #5917212 - 07/31/06 12:11 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

4 oz dry = 40 oz wet.
I would suggest a minimum of 40 oz of dry substrate, then hydrated.

That would be 100% B/E.

Cubes are very capable of 250% B/E.  :grin:


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Invisibleesdfsfd
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Re: just want some advice [Re: Omnicracker]
    #5917214 - 07/31/06 12:12 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

:yourock:  :doggystyle:


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InvisibleTippinthru
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Re: just want some advice [Re: liamtheloser]
    #5917219 - 07/31/06 12:13 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

liamtheloser said:
i have a 40 foot penis with balls like weather balloons.

But that didn't let me get a lb dry off of ANY of my grows :P




Picture Please  :blush: :grin: :rolleyes:


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Offlinexaxphaanes
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Re: just want some advice [Re: Tippinthru]
    #5917232 - 07/31/06 12:16 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

lol awesome that is just the information that i needed to know i will post pics in the grow log forum on this grow ! so keep an eye out hehehe


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"Anything i say is fictional"
  what you should look for in manure


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InvisibleOmnicracker
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Re: just want some advice [Re: liamtheloser]
    #5917256 - 07/31/06 12:20 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

liamtheloser said:
i have a 40 foot penis with balls like weather balloons.

But that didn't let me get a lb dry off of ANY of my grows :P




youre not using it right.
i use the microclimate under my supersized shillelagh as my FC. a brisk jog once a day keeps the humidity up and plenty of FAE.


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InvisibleTippinthru
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Re: just want some advice [Re: xaxphaanes]
    #5917267 - 07/31/06 12:23 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

100 to 250% B/E is under near optimal conditions.

Most mono tub set ups are not optimal, without a provision for automated FAE.
Fanning, IMO doesn't come close to optimal FAE.


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Offlinexaxphaanes
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Re: just want some advice [Re: Tippinthru]
    #5917290 - 07/31/06 12:28 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

put a small fan to circulate air ? not directly on the tubs of course. ?


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InvisibleTippinthru
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Re: just want some advice [Re: xaxphaanes]
    #5917302 - 07/31/06 12:30 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)


Think about it.
One of these would bolt right on.


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InvisibleOmnicracker
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Re: just want some advice [Re: Tippinthru]
    #5917311 - 07/31/06 12:32 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

then you start to lose humidiy, i tried pointing a fan at the tubs, and after a few hours, all the water droplets on the cieling/walls were evaporated. i had to open and mist a few times to bring it back to the right humidity.


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Offlinexaxphaanes
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Re: just want some advice [Re: Tippinthru]
    #5917315 - 07/31/06 12:33 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

so make a bunch of small holes then put the fan ob top and put it on a timer ?? how would you put that on a timer anyway ? do you have a link to a tek ? thanks man


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"Anything i say is fictional"
  what you should look for in manure


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InvisibleTippinthru
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Re: just want some advice [Re: Omnicracker]
    #5917333 - 07/31/06 12:39 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I don't do mono tubs.

But, I would think.
If I were to do a large one.

I would rig a cool mist to one end.
And, a computer fan to the other.
Except, I would reverse the computer fan.
So, it would pull, rather than push.

That way, the cool mist would push in FAE, and high Rh.
The computer fan would work like an exhaust fan.

Just my $0.02 cents.


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Re: just want some advice [Re: Tippinthru]
    #5917338 - 07/31/06 12:40 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

if your going to start rigging up tubing, coolmists, and a fan, you would be better off with a martha.


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Offlinexaxphaanes
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Re: just want some advice [Re: Omnicracker]
    #5917342 - 07/31/06 12:42 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

see i was going for something that is simple/easy that would give ne 4 ounces per tub just trying to achievle that goal is all


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InvisibleTippinthru
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Re: just want some advice [Re: Omnicracker]
    #5917357 - 07/31/06 12:46 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)



I prefer a 24 cubic foot upright White-Westinghouse.



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Offlinexaxphaanes
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Re: just want some advice [Re: Tippinthru]
    #5917365 - 07/31/06 12:49 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

lol i wouldnt need all that just 4 ounces for me to munch on for a few months


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InvisibleOmnicracker
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Re: just want some advice [Re: Tippinthru]
    #5917368 - 07/31/06 12:49 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

miles below the earths crust...


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InvisibleTippinthru
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Re: just want some advice [Re: xaxphaanes]
    #5917373 - 07/31/06 12:51 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Simple/easy... is not always optimal.

I prefer automation.
Which is near set it, and forget it.
Of course, you don't forget it.
So, you look in on it, as needed.
Actually, more often than needed. :grin:


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Offlinexaxphaanes
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Re: just want some advice [Re: Tippinthru]
    #5917379 - 07/31/06 12:52 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

see from what i have read is mono/double tubs are basicly the same i havent read any diffrences in microclimate between the 2


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InvisibleTippinthru
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Re: just want some advice [Re: Omnicracker]
    #5917380 - 07/31/06 12:53 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Omnicracker said:
miles below the earths crust...





Nice set-up.

I can lock mine. :grin:


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InvisibleOmnicracker
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Re: just want some advice [Re: Tippinthru]
    #5917387 - 07/31/06 12:54 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

way more often than needed! and a few more times to be sure.
better than television.


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Re: just want some advice [Re: Tippinthru]
    #5917389 - 07/31/06 12:55 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

complicated, is often not optimal either.

i wonder how many folks out there have big fancy automated fruiting chambers that actually do more damage to their grows than good, because they're not 'configured' right?

a monotub, with a few holes, left completely alone, performs.

if you want it to perform better, open it a few times a day, mist, and fan.

if you focus on the fundamentals before you worry about complicating things, you will succeed.  the best FC in the world isn't going to get you more yields, if you can't get past contams, or can't get a good pinset, etc.

all this showing off of fc pictures does little to encourage the 'owner' of this thread. :smile:


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OfflineYamidude
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Re: just want some advice [Re: creamcorn]
    #5917394 - 07/31/06 12:57 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

i have stared at my fresh pins about 5 times today. I think im gonna take a few pics now.. lol


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Re: just want some advice [Re: creamcorn]
    #5917399 - 07/31/06 12:58 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

all this showing off of fc pictures does little to encourage the 'owner' of this thread.




yeah, but im talking a full 17 inches.


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Re: just want some advice [Re: Omnicracker]
    #5917404 - 07/31/06 01:00 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

lets see though

that grow room is missing one thing

mushrooms.  :mypleasure:


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InvisibleTippinthru
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Re: just want some advice [Re: creamcorn]
    #5917419 - 07/31/06 01:08 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

>>>>complicated, is often not optimal either.

Mine is just a metal Martha.
Nothing very complex about that.

Fat ass pins that sometimes stall.
Is common place with mono tubs.
Most often from lack of, or inconsistent FAE.

There are threads all over about that.

That is my point.

Now, Omni...what about a picture of that 17 inches. :blush: :grin: :wink:


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Re: just want some advice [Re: creamcorn]
    #5917420 - 07/31/06 01:08 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

haha. i know. i had an unbearable loss one hot weekend. pounds upon pounds of colonized substrate wasted. i was trying to jumpinto a new monotub system, but it hasnt been going my way. i actually have my first mushrooms going right now in a monotub. they will be ready in a few days...;)


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Offlinexaxphaanes
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Re: just want some advice [Re: Omnicracker]
    #5917428 - 07/31/06 01:11 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

so if i fanned 2-3 times a day then i should be able to get that amnt ? it seems the only downside is the lack of air exhange but that is the same thing the double tub is lacking as well so that would be a simple fix to the problem then


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Re: just want some advice [Re: Omnicracker]
    #5917438 - 07/31/06 01:14 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

here you go tippin, but your have to fight off that peacock if you want to play.  :wink:
 

tomorrow im off to buy some rye to do a quick grow to get ready for ACL fest and boost my confidence.  then im going to begin a new grow.  wronguys spawnbars --> trays --> martha --> stomach -->outerspace


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Re: just want some advice [Re: Omnicracker]
    #5917450 - 07/31/06 01:18 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

well thank you for validating my point, if you can't get past the basics you can't get anywhere.

im not picking on you or trying to imply you can't handle the basics, shit happens to the best of us, don't take that the wrong way :smile:  just sayin...

and yeah, monotubs are simple to set up, but aren't really 'beginner friendly' despite their simple appearance.  moisture content is hard to manage with them and a big contributor to those stalled fatties. 

often overlooked but really important: they can be dunked though like anything else (carefully pour some water in against the side, it will fill in around and under your substrate block, wait, then carefully drain, or better yet poke some drainage holes underneath and let it run out in a bathtub or something - you can seal those back up with pieces of duct tape).  and despite the fact that most believe you can just leave them be, once you've applied a casing layer if you manually intervene with some fanning and misting, you can greatly improve your end results.  its really not THAT hard, it just takes a bit of an experienced eye and being 'in tune' with your grows' needs. :smile:  it doesn't HAVE to be complicated to work, and it can work very very well.


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Offlinexaxphaanes
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Re: just want some advice [Re: creamcorn]
    #5917547 - 07/31/06 01:57 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I have the basics down i have about 15 grows that were successful just getting the downside and upside of this tek and seeing where i can improve to get a better result thanks all for the comments


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InvisibleTippinthru
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Re: just want some advice [Re: xaxphaanes]
    #5917561 - 07/31/06 02:05 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I apologize, if I threw you off course.

P. Stamets calls for 1 to 3 FAE's per hour, during the pinning/fruiting stage.
Doing that by hand (to me) would be a great pain. That is why I chose automation.

Sure, it took a little to set up, and fine tune.
But, once done, I can leave it alone 4 days, at a stretch.
On the fourth day, all I have to do is refill a water reservoir.


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Re: just want some advice [Re: Tippinthru]
    #5918162 - 07/31/06 10:31 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

> P. Stamets calls for 1 to 3 FAE's per hour,

P. Stamets also claims you can't grow shiitakes from spore, so you have to take his advice with a grain of salt.

1-3 per day is the max I would do.


-FF


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Offlinexaxphaanes
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Re: just want some advice [Re: fastfred]
    #5919721 - 07/31/06 07:58 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

lol thanks fastfred


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InvisibleOmnicracker
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Re: just want some advice [Re: fastfred]
    #5920286 - 07/31/06 10:39 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

fastfred said:
1-3 per day is the max I would do.
-FF




... thats not good advice. FF, are you seriously saying that 1-3 FAExchanges per DAY is the maximum you would do? thats dumb like dum.

the more FAE the merrier, as long as you can keep your Humidity up.


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OfflineYamidude
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Re: just want some advice [Re: Omnicracker]
    #5920357 - 07/31/06 11:04 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

my martha has FAE all day long..


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Re: just want some advice [Re: Yamidude]
    #5920806 - 08/01/06 01:42 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

> are you seriously saying that 1-3 FAExchanges per DAY is the maximum you would do?

Yes. Anymore and you stand a decent chance of running into humidity problems. At 4 FAEs a day a significant portion of the day your FC will be at less than optimal humidity.

That much FAE is simply not required. Some people here seem to think that there's a 50cc gas engine in there that will stall or something. Myc simply doesn't need 100 times it's volume in fresh air each day. That's pure foolishness.

What's even more foolish is that every time this FAE debate seems to come up people are getting more and more wacky in their ideas. I always used to say that 1 FAE and a polyfilled drainage hole was enough, and it is. But after arguing over it a bunch with people who've never tried anything but over-fanning I usually say 1-3 per day. Now people want to say 1-3 per hour which is just flat out stupidity.

100's of times it's volume per hour? That's lunacy. Get a fucking grip on reality for goodness sakes. A year from now people will be trying to say you need a constant airflow, two years from now you'll be trying to say that your fruiting chamber needs to be a 50 mph wind tunnel. Just come off it already people.

Every year the exaggeration gets worse because some noob will start hollering that they don't have an pins the second their clock hits 7 days. Then somebody says "try more FAE". The noob then tries it and low and behold they get pins on the 8th-10th day and they post back that their cakes just needed more FAE, how good FAE is, and how important it is to fan 3 times an hour.

All that jive is just pure stupidity. 1 FAE worked perfectly find over a decade ago, and guess what? It still works perfectly fine today!

Here's from the PF tek...

"It has been seen that mushrooms will grow very well in a properly set up dual chambered terrarium, with only one good spraying a day - and even less than that."

"Each time the terrarium is sprayed, the fungus should be ventilated. To ventilate, take off the lid, and while holding the spray shield vertically, fan the chamber with a piece of cardboard, and then spray as above."


So everyone who disses 1 FAE a day is dissing time tested advice from the guy that pretty much started it all.

Some mushrooms need more FAE, but cubes do just fine with 1-3 per day. Perhaps that's why Stamets was never successful in germinating or fruiting shiitake spores. He must have fanned them to death.


-FF


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Re: just want some advice [Re: fastfred]
    #5920818 - 08/01/06 01:47 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I think you get worked up way to easily there FF. Drink some warm tea or take some kava kava or something..


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Re: just want some advice [Re: fastfred]
    #5920839 - 08/01/06 01:56 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

fastfred said:
So everyone who disses 1 FAE a day is dissing time tested advice from the guy that pretty much started it all.
-FF




you are on the verge of being a poon...

you say this, and yet you continuallly rip Stamets and RR and others even more experienced than old PF. you do this with out giving them any of the 'experience' credit that proves you and PF right.

you dont know what you want, so you pretend to be king of an online forum where everyone finds you increasingly abnoxious...


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Re: just want some advice [Re: Omnicracker]
    #5920890 - 08/01/06 02:27 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I'm not trying to rip on Stamets and RR. There's no reason to be insulting.

You are the one going against experience, not me. If you want to claim that ridiculously high FAE helps then prove it.

Even if you do prove it that does nothing to counteract the fact that 1 FAE/day works just fine, and has for well over a decade.

So stop telling me I'm giving bad advice when you are dead wrong. Nobody likes being told that they're wrong, but I don't give two shits weather you like it or not.

I'm not trying to pretend to be a "king" of this forum and if you find me "abnoxious" I could care less.


-FF


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Re: just want some advice [Re: fastfred]
    #5921606 - 08/01/06 11:44 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

you dont know what you want, so you pretend to be king of an online forum where everyone finds you increasingly abnoxious...




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OfflineSinthetic
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Re: just want some advice [Re: Cubenisseur]
    #5921690 - 08/01/06 12:09 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah, I agree. All Fastfred seems to do lately is give out mediocre advice while being an ass. Just because he can't keep his humidity up with optimal air exchange, everyone else must be wrong. And no PF didn't start it all. He started the ghetto, good-enough method.


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: just want some advice [Re: Sinthetic]
    #5921952 - 08/01/06 01:38 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

How soon we forget...

PF did start it all. He invented a method simple enough and cheap enough for anyone to do and then he sold spores for better than a decade. He advertised in a magazine with worldwide circulation (high times) and provided the instructions on how to grow them.

There were very few people growing before PF. The people who did, like P. Stamets, were part of a very small group of people in the know who actually practiced mushroom cultivation.

Of course, very people here have been around long enough to know that.


-FF


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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: just want some advice [Re: fastfred]
    #5922380 - 08/01/06 04:34 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

actually i gotta kind of side with FF here to some extent

people really confuse these things

you're totally right on that the amount of mycelium/mushrooms you have growing can't totally use up all the fresh air in a typical FC. but there's more to it than that.

we know CO2 is heavier than air. when its given off by the surface of your casing, it doesnt move very far. some people, use very shoddily thought-out casing trays, where the tray walls extend several inches above the surface, where they're like half full (i cringe when i see that... come on people, fill the tray all the way so the surface is level with the top, or find a more appropriate tray.) so any CO2 given off, sits there, in a pocket. you need to fan it to move it around and off the surface. the mushrooms may not be consuming all the fresh air inside the FC, but its that confined little area you're worried about, the more CO2 you can keep off it, the better, and it will build up there quicker if it has no place to go. just using an appropriate sized tray mostly solves that for you - the CO2 won't be trapped and will drift off to an extent, greatly reducing the need for you to force it off!

if you look in TMC at the cube parameters, and see the 1-3 times per hour, you need to put that in perspective. as in, read the rest of the book, and the type of grow room he describes. most of us have a few small to medium sized trays at a time, and can give them individual attention. if you're talking about a commercial growing outfit, there's no way you're giving all the casing surfaces individual attention. having that much air exchange in the whole room, creates enough of a current, that it ensures its taken care of for you. we work on a smaller level, we don't have all that much CO2 to deal with in the first place, and a quick fanning directed right at your casing surface, takes care of it without the need to replace 100% of the air in the entire chamber. this is where people get confused.

as for PF's reccomendation, lets think cakes for a minute, because that's what he deals in. cakes are more 3-dimensional. they're usually raised up a bit, either on a double ended case, a lid, something. so again, they 'exhale' co2, it has a place to go. it doesn't sit on the surface of a cake, it can drift off the sides and down. PF's suggestion for 1 fanning a day, is sufficient for this reason. the CO2 isn't trapped up against the growing surface, so you don't need to fan it out so often.

a lot of experienced hands sing the same tune, mushrooms need lots of fresh air. well what this *really* means, is not necessarily fresh air, but that the concentration of the air closest to the surface of your substrate, has a low CO2 concentration. the easiest way to do so, is with lots of air exchange. the smart way to do it, is to use an appropriate casing tray if casing, or to place your drainage holes in the correct place in a monotub, or whatever your situation calls for. this is why stamets also gives reccomended CO2 levels in ppm - yet nobody ever bothers to quote those numbers! instead, the easily misunderstood reccomendation of '1-3 times per hour' is taken literally and incorrectly and repeated ad infinitum.

if you take both ends of the spectrum and put them together (i.e., one of those horrid casing trays where the walls reach up 2-3 inches above the surface of your casing), and try to get by fanning it only once per day, then you could run into problems.

it just takes a little reasoning and logic here. apply what works for your situation and growing method. you can under-do FAE. of course we know stagnant air can encourage contaminates on top of balancing your CO2 concentrations. BUT, you can over-do it, and cause humidity problems. humidity is at least as important, if not more important. so find a balance that works, and use common sense. all the fresh air in the world won't make mushrooms grow if everything else isn't in check.


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