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JSK4557uK
HeAteTooMany
Registered: 06/13/06
Posts: 17
Last seen: 17 years, 17 days
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B+ PF-Cakes BRF & Verm Potency Problems
#5914325 - 07/30/06 07:28 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I've noticed lately that people have been talking about BRF producing low potentcy shrooms. I had some B+ fruits mature this weekend and ended up eating around 40 to 50 grams wet with only a mild trip. They were grown on BRF. I got my strain from a shroomery approved vendor. I followed the amounts for the tech exactly right. Why so weak? Wondering now how many grams I should eat to get to at least a level 3 or 4? Try doubling the dosage?
-------------------- Hell, I think they taste pretty good. **All posts are for information and entertainment purposes only!**
Edited by prodigyx04 (07/30/06 07:30 AM)
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FooMan



Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 8,957
Loc: Earth
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Re: B+ PF-Cakes BRF & Verm Potency Problems [Re: JSK4557uK]
#5914354 - 07/30/06 07:55 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Did you grind the rice yourself or did you by brown rice flour? This does make a difference IME.
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Quick WBS Prep
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JSK4557uK
HeAteTooMany
Registered: 06/13/06
Posts: 17
Last seen: 17 years, 17 days
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Re: B+ PF-Cakes BRF & Verm Potency Problems [Re: FooMan]
#5914410 - 07/30/06 08:26 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I bought Organic Brown Rice Flower from a health food store. What I'm really trying to find out here is how much I should try and eat now that I have these low potentcy shrooms. I have six cakes that are crowded with fruits right now.
-------------------- Hell, I think they taste pretty good. **All posts are for information and entertainment purposes only!**
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure


Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
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Re: B+ PF-Cakes BRF & Verm Potency Problems [Re: JSK4557uK]
#5914472 - 07/30/06 09:06 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Be careful. The fruits from an adjacent cake might be three times as strong. That's the nature of multispore inoculation. Also, it's well known that potency varies considerably from flush to flush, and from fruit to fruit. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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JSK4557uK
HeAteTooMany
Registered: 06/13/06
Posts: 17
Last seen: 17 years, 17 days
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Re: B+ PF-Cakes BRF & Verm Potency Problems [Re: RogerRabbit]
#5914479 - 07/30/06 09:08 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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So, what would you suggest for me to do?
P.S. I only used one spore syringe to knock up the 6 jars.
-------------------- Hell, I think they taste pretty good. **All posts are for information and entertainment purposes only!**
Edited by prodigyx04 (07/30/06 09:45 AM)
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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Re: B+ PF-Cakes BRF & Verm Potency Problems [Re: JSK4557uK]
#5914528 - 07/30/06 09:45 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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buckle down and get more involved in the hobby.
research strain isolation.
work to find yourself a strain isolate. doesn't matter what name the strain is, only about 8 look any different anyways, pick a name that you like or pick one that you like the looks of, like PF Albino or something. doesn't matter the strain at all.
apply your research to make several isolate strains and grow each of them out. pick the one that suits your parameters best and keep it. duplicate it and store the master cultures.
work from that culture over and over again.
your potency will mainly depend upon this isolate. yes, genetics plays the largest role in potency.
you will still have to provide a good substrate and correct parameters if you want a good yield.
a substrate lacking in nutes will produce less potent shrooms, but there is no more crapshoot like with a multispore inoculation.
the problem with BRF isn't the BRF (well it could be if it was store bought), it is the fact that you have to use so much vermiculite with it. Like HC said earlier.
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JSK4557uK
HeAteTooMany
Registered: 06/13/06
Posts: 17
Last seen: 17 years, 17 days
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Re: B+ PF-Cakes BRF & Verm Potency Problems [Re: monstermitch]
#5914549 - 07/30/06 10:00 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I appreciate all the help but my main question is still not being answered. For the mushrooms that I have right now how should I go about gauging the potentcy for a level 3 or 4 trip? I ate 40 to 50 grams with minimal effects? I've ate shrooms off of 2 of the 6 cakes with minimal effects (wet mushrooms). Should I eat mushrooms from different cakes up to 80 grams. Should I just try to eat 80 grams? Double the dosage? Etc etc. Thanks for the help.
P.S. I'm sure this is a hard question to answer but I appreciate any advice at all.
-------------------- Hell, I think they taste pretty good. **All posts are for information and entertainment purposes only!**
Edited by prodigyx04 (07/30/06 10:01 AM)
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coda
Banjo Goiter


Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 8,750
Last seen: 10 months, 3 days
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Re: B+ PF-Cakes BRF & Verm Potency Problems [Re: JSK4557uK]
#5914645 - 07/30/06 10:53 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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1.) dry mushrooms 2.) weigh out a dose 3.) eat dose 4.) wait *if happy after step 4 skip to step 6, if not go to step 5* 5.) Eat more shrooms til desired effect is reached 6.) Enjoy trip
-------------------- To get really high is to forget yourself. And to forget yourself is to see everything else. And to see everything else is to become an understanding molecule in evolution, a conscious tool of the universe. And I think every human being should be a conscious tool of the universe. . . . -JG i really am glad you came back to us instead of taking the other path. *hug* -A_S (RIP your final words to me will never be forgotten)
 Don't fuck with the laughing jesus.
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Cubenisseur
Mad Props


Registered: 12/04/05
Posts: 1,392
Loc: Indian Land
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
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Re: B+ PF-Cakes BRF & Verm Potency Problems [Re: coda]
#5914683 - 07/30/06 11:13 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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^^^ Well said. I agree with coda!
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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Re: B+ PF-Cakes BRF & Verm Potency Problems [Re: Cubenisseur]
#5914777 - 07/30/06 11:58 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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no one can tell you any sort of accurate guess on your potency.
as RR put it, the cake next to the loser cake can be a winner cake.
and the loser cake may produce potent shrooms on it's next flush.
when you inoculate with a spore syringe, or with a spore made LC, there is no way to be sure about the fruits' potency. Some strains tend to carry better levels of actives than others, but generally all cube strains are equally potent.
The strain (substrain) that your fruits came from is the major determining factor in potency. each cake could have a few different strains (substrains) in it. they are not all capable of anastomosis. so each cake can produce weak and strong shrooms.
you'll have to do what coda said: eat and find out.
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Zen Peddler


Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
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Re: B+ PF-Cakes BRF & Verm Potency Problems *DELETED* [Re: monstermitch]
#5924383 - 08/02/06 03:51 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Post deleted by bluemeanieReason for deletion: pok
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Anno
Experimenter



Registered: 06/17/99
Posts: 24,166
Loc: my room
Last seen: 20 days, 16 hours
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Re: B+ PF-Cakes BRF & Verm Potency Problems [Re: Zen Peddler]
#5924478 - 08/02/06 05:39 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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>Brown rice and brown rice flour has some of the lo >west content of tryptophan precursors and nitrogen nutrients of any substrate. >The highest precursors are found in rye and millet and the highest nitrogen is >found manure and straw.
It's not that simple. Brown rice flour contains 3/4 of the tryptophan content that millet contains. This doesn't explain the potency difference.
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: B+ PF-Cakes BRF & Verm Potency Problems [Re: Anno]
#5924627 - 08/02/06 07:15 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Substrate tryptophan is also not a significant precursor of psilocybin.

It is poorly absorbed by the myc.

BRF is not an inferior substrate. It works just fine and has a good BE. You can get better prtency with rye or other substrates, but that does nothing to make BRF a poor substrate.
Substrate potency is more likely affected by carbon source, nitrogen, and phosphorous content.
-FF
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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Re: B+ PF-Cakes BRF & Verm Potency Problems [Re: fastfred]
#5924775 - 08/02/06 08:59 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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oh shoot,
you posted your PM to me in a forum.
I really wish I would have saved my response to you.
That's okay, the way you are going I'll have plenty of chances I assume.
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Zen Peddler


Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
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Re: B+ PF-Cakes BRF & Verm Potency Problems [Re: fastfred]
#5936324 - 08/06/06 07:03 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Zen Peddler


Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
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Re: B+ PF-Cakes BRF & Verm Potency Problems [Re: Zen Peddler]
#5936327 - 08/06/06 07:08 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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I think Eontan discusses this - as quoted from above:
'Tryptophan is an amino acid. It makes a lousy nitrogen source. It is the starting point for manufacturing Psilocibin in a mushroom.
Gartz did a study showing that the addition of tryptamine, not tryptophan, increased goodie content in mushrooms. WHAT IS MOST INTERESTING ABOUT tHE STUDY, and paid the least attention too, is that only 20 percent of the goodies produced where made with the Tryptamine introduced into the substrate. 80% was manufatured via normal pathways. Tryptophan found in the substrate, and tryptophan manufatured by the mushroom accounted for the remaining 80% of the produced goodies.
Something about having a tryptamine rich substrate enables more tryptophan to be manufactured by the mushroom indirectly. The actual tryptamine was only responsible for 20% of the total CONTENT of goodies.
A 1 gram sample yielded 3.3 % goodies or 33 mg of goodies. Of this 33 mg only 6.6 mg were made directly from the tryptamine introduced. The other 26.4 mg of goodies were produced by Tryptophan either taken in from the susbtrate or manufactured by the mushroom. '
Second quote:
'I didn't post any links.
Tryptophan is the building block for some Nitrogen containing secondary metabolites.
Tryptophan> IAA Tryptophan> Tryptamine
You don't need to read journals read a basic physiology book'
Third quote: 'The gartz study showed that adding tryptamine, not tryptophan, increased Psilocin content in the mushroom. But it also showed that only 1/4 of the total concentration of the elevated levels was directly related to the TAGGED TRYPTAMINE. The rest of the PSilocin was not associated with the TAGGED TRYPTAMINE. So it came from Tryptamine manufactured by the mushroom, which is only manufactured from Tryptophan.
Tryptophan>Tryptamine in mushrooms. If you can demonstrate How you get to Tryptamine from some other Precursor in mushrooms or plants, please provide a link. Becasue EVERY PHYSIOLOGY BOOK on both Plants and Fungi contradicts what is being implied here.
I don't think anyone is paying attention to the FACT that in Gartz study the TAGGED TRYPTAMINE only was associated with 1/4 of the 3Percent of Psilocin.
Added x amount of Tryptamine Yielded 30+ mg psilocin. But of the 30+mg, only 7.5 mg could be confirmed as being Directly manufactured from the Tagged TRyptamine. The other 22.5+ mg wasmanufactured via tryptamine that was not TAGGED. This means Tryptamine that was manufactured by the mushroom, from it's Precursor Tryptophan. '
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Zen Peddler


Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
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Re: B+ PF-Cakes BRF & Verm Potency Problems [Re: Zen Peddler]
#5936328 - 08/06/06 07:11 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Fastfred - So in other words, the other precursors you have listed are basically made or are conversions of tryptophan. Therefore, Tryptophan isnt a major precursor - it is the MAIN precursor.
Anno - last time we discussed this issue this you werent acknowledging a difference in potency between substrates.
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Zen Peddler


Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
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Re: B+ PF-Cakes BRF & Verm Potency Problems [Re: fastfred]
#5936333 - 08/06/06 07:16 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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'Substrate potency is more likely affected by carbon source, nitrogen, and phosphorous content'
Really? Why?
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