|
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
|
rsimoa
newbie


Registered: 07/07/06
Posts: 74
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
|
My Mixed Substrate Recipe
#5850028 - 07/12/06 07:25 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Hi all,
I've spent a lot of time reading posts and grow guides before trying this on my own. I failed with rye with 4 different strains (all fell to contams even though I PCed at 15psi for well over an hour). I was getting pretty frustrated but I didn't want to do the BRF cakes.
So I came up with this idea for mixed a grain substrate. After reading all the different substrate options and why some are better than others. I came to understand that there are four main substrate concerns in jar colonization 1) nutritional quality 2) moisture 3) air 4) contamination. Rye is good for 1, 2, and 3 but is a bitch with 4. The BRF/verm mix is good for 2, 3 and 4, but has very little 1. Millet and amaranth are great for 1, vary with 2, good with 4, but can be really bad for 3.
So anyway, I was just trying to come up with some way that could be good for everything. I found that if you mix millet and amaranth, soak it, then boil and simmer it until it more than doubles in volume and becomes like thick, sticky oatmeal, you have a really moisture heavy substrate with great nutritional value. But the problem with it is gas exchange because it packs into the jars so tight there aren't any air pockets. So I add verm until it becomes the consistancy of gingerbread cookie dough. Now, if you loosely crumble this mix into the jars and PC it well, I really think you have a near-ideal substrate. It's relatively low in contams, high in nutrients, high in moisture, and allows for air pockets throughout the jars. It's perfect! (in my opinion). I've been using it in half-pint jars with two wholes for inoculation and tyvek for air filtration.
I think this works because the amaranth just turns to mush and covers the verm. The millet then helps make a better consistancy and provides great nutrients. And the whole mess holds a lot of water! And if you fill the jars loosy, you won't need to shake them because you'll have nice air pockets throughout.
Using this mixed substrate, I was finally able to get fully colonized, contam-free jars and make some great casings. Not to mention, my mycellium was so rhysmorphic it was almost sexy.
I don't have any mushrooms ready just yet, so I don't know how the potency will be. But I'm thinking it should be good due to the nutritional quality of the millet and amaranth.
Well, anyway, I just thought I'd throw this idea at you all. I know it's not the discovery of the century and I know people already mix rye and verm, but I think this worth a try if you can't get anything else to work or you're just bored and want to try something a little different.
Here's a picture:
-------------------- "Mind your mycelium" said the mysteriously mercurial mycologist of Mt. Olympus
|
RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure


Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 21 days
|
Re: My Mixed Substrate Recipe [Re: rsimoa]
#5850062 - 07/12/06 07:58 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Bear in mind, contaminants are caused by contaminant spores landing on your grains. It doesn't matter what your choice of grains are, if contaminants get on them, they're ruined. With practice, we learn sterile techniques that lead to success. Remember, rye is not more prone to contaminants than any other cereal grain. Glad you got a clean inoculation. The mycelium looks good. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
|
rsimoa
newbie


Registered: 07/07/06
Posts: 74
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
|
Re: My Mixed Substrate Recipe [Re: RogerRabbit]
#5850483 - 07/12/06 11:05 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Oh really? Huh. I always use sterile technique for inoculation... and I did things the same way with all the jars. I wonder then why I always get contams with rye, but not with this.
-------------------- "Mind your mycelium" said the mysteriously mercurial mycologist of Mt. Olympus
|
Roadkill
Retired Shroomery Mod


Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 22,674
Loc: Montana
|
Re: My Mixed Substrate Recipe [Re: rsimoa]
#5850630 - 07/12/06 12:08 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
rsimoa said:
Oh really? Huh. I always use sterile technique for inoculation... and I did things the same way with all the jars. I wonder then why I always get contams with rye, but not with this.
Could still be your sterile technique.
Could be endo spores in your Rye grain.
Could be the method that you did your Rye.
Could be a bad syringe.
Could be a ton of stuff.
tc
-------------------- Laterz, Road Who the hell you callin crazy? You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch! Brainiac said: PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.
|
fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
|
Re: My Mixed Substrate Recipe [Re: Roadkill]
#5850842 - 07/12/06 01:29 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
I would bet on endospores! Rye is pretty bad for endospores. It's very frustrating when you can't kill something by PCing for an hour!
Rsimoa you should try a few control jars to see where the problem is. Rye is not that bad for contamination. WBS is WAY worse.
You need to soak the rye for 24 hours to germinate endospores. Otherwise you'll lose about 2-6% to them, even with 1 hour PC times.
What strain is that pic of? It sure is damn rhizomorphic. I'll give ya for it and to start you off. Interesting post.
-FF
|
itsbreck
Crunk

Registered: 01/25/06
Posts: 447
|
Re: My Mixed Substrate Recipe [Re: fastfred]
#5850858 - 07/12/06 01:35 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
good job with the experimenting, i'll have to try something like that
|
rsimoa
newbie


Registered: 07/07/06
Posts: 74
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
|
Re: My Mixed Substrate Recipe [Re: fastfred]
#5851202 - 07/12/06 03:29 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
fastfred said: I would bet on endospores! Rye is pretty bad for endospores.
That's what I always thought too. I mean, I soaked, simmered and PC-ed the shit out of that stuff and I still couldn't get a single jar to make it. And it was never mold... it was always bacterial contams.
Quote:
It's very frustrating when you can't kill something by PCing for an hour!
Tell me about it! I PCed my rye jars for almost TWO hours at ~17psi.
Quote:
Rsimoa you should try a few control jars to see where the problem is. Rye is not that bad for contamination. WBS is WAY worse.
Yeah, I know I should... but honestly, I don't think rye has any distinct advantage that would make me still want to use it when I know this works (other than just for the sake of being able to say I've done a rye tek). Maybe if my mushrooms come out really weak or something I'll have to go back and try the rye again.
Sorry I don't know what WBS is. I tried looking it up but couldn't find it.
Quote:
You need to soak the rye for 24 hours to germinate endospores. Otherwise you'll lose about 2-6% to them, even with 1 hour PC times.
I sear I did all that... and more. So I guess maybe it has been my sterility in inoculation. But I swear I'm always really careful. I use bleach and Oast and an alcohol lamp and everything. I used the tyvek and spot bandaids too. But I suppose I still did it in open air, so... Then again though, I used the same inoculation technique for all the jars.
Quote:
What strain is that pic of?
Well, I guess I kinda cheated with that one. It's KS classic... which I understand is really rhizmorphic on anything. But I also have jars with this colonizing with Z strain, LY and KSSS.
Quote:
It sure is damn rhizomorphic. I'll give ya for it and to start you off. Interesting post.
THANKS! You're awesome.
One other thing I like about this mix is that it crumbles so easily! You barely have to squeeze the cakes to make the fall apart. It's great.
-------------------- "Mind your mycelium" said the mysteriously mercurial mycologist of Mt. Olympus
Edited by rsimoa (07/12/06 03:37 PM)
|
rsimoa
newbie


Registered: 07/07/06
Posts: 74
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
|
Re: My Mixed Substrate Recipe [Re: itsbreck]
#5851209 - 07/12/06 03:32 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
itsbreck said: good job with the experimenting, i'll have to try something like that
Thanks. If nothing else, it makes a big, beautiful, sticky mess... especially if you mix the grains and verm while the grains are still warm.
-------------------- "Mind your mycelium" said the mysteriously mercurial mycologist of Mt. Olympus
|
fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
|
Re: My Mixed Substrate Recipe [Re: rsimoa]
#5851267 - 07/12/06 04:01 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
WBS is wild bird seed.
|
rsimoa
newbie


Registered: 07/07/06
Posts: 74
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
|
Re: My Mixed Substrate Recipe [Re: fastfred]
#5884273 - 07/21/06 12:07 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Thanks fastfred
Here's a pic of the pins:
-------------------- "Mind your mycelium" said the mysteriously mercurial mycologist of Mt. Olympus
|
rsimoa
newbie


Registered: 07/07/06
Posts: 74
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
|
Re: My Mixed Substrate Recipe [Re: rsimoa]
#5913018 - 07/29/06 07:43 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
And here is the crop:

-------------------- "Mind your mycelium" said the mysteriously mercurial mycologist of Mt. Olympus
|
|