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19741974
Stranger

Registered: 06/18/06
Posts: 148
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
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small shrooms
#5912778 - 07/29/06 06:17 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Hello, i have some koh samui super straign that's been pinning for about 4-7 days now. and i just looked at then and noticed that the veils have allredy broke and the gills are exposed. the tallest is only about an inch tall. any reason why there so small and the veils are broke. my RH is allways at around 98% and i lightly mist 2 times a day to keep the casing moist. Is this just a small strain or did screw somthing up? thanks for any help. oh, and my temp stays between 73 and 77.
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dizzim
Born Again Head
Registered: 04/30/03
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Re: small shrooms [Re: 19741974]
#5912807 - 07/29/06 06:28 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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how deep is your substrate? that can affect size. First flushes seem to be smaller than later ones....but 1 inch shrooms seems extreme. Some of the more experienced members may have some answeres for you.
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mrmonkey
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Registered: 07/03/06
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Re: small shrooms [Re: dizzim]
#5912845 - 07/29/06 06:41 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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My problems that led too that same problem were....man I already typed all of this once.
1. Substrate layer not thick enough too warrent the size casing I made. (3-4 inches of substrate is what is recommended) 2.Not letting the casing layer colonize, screwing me on my water delivery to carry me thru my pinset, forcing me too water while the pins were coming up. 3.Too high humidty thru out the pinset 4.Cheap trigger sprayer, I think the water beat my shrooms open but thats just theory. Get a misty mate or something. 5.FAE- I was misting then fanning 6.Improper water delivery, not enough water....I think the shrooms drank all the available water then gave up and opened. Just because the casing layer is moist doesnt mean the substrate got enough of it also.
Anyway just some ideas, I am not one of the pro's
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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Re: small shrooms [Re: mrmonkey]
#5912872 - 07/29/06 06:55 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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if you got your spores from
THE
it is most likely a strain problem. I've seen many people with the exact same problem.
but only people who ordered from that particular vendor. my KSSS from Ralph performs very nicely.
nothing against THE, and this is just one possibility.
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19741974
Stranger

Registered: 06/18/06
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Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
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What about peroxide. i use at 10:1 (10% peroxide)ratio everyt time i mist the casing. could that stunt the growth that much? Thanx guy's for the replies.
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liamtheloser
Advanced Idiot

Registered: 06/07/06
Posts: 1,453
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Re: small shrooms [Re: 19741974]
#5913003 - 07/29/06 07:39 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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it would slow growth, but not stunt it... I used to use 1:10 peroxide in my spray, but i stopped just because sometimes the peroxide gets smelly, and i hate the smell of peroxide.
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure


Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
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Quote:
monstermitch said: if you got your spores from
THE
it is most likely a strain problem.
Nobody breeds mycelium for 'small' genetics, especially a shroomery approved vendor.
Small mushrooms are caused by one or more of the following: Too small a substrate or too thin a casing layer, improper substrate or ph level for the species, or too little moisture in the substrate or casing layer. The latter is most often the cause. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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19741974
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Registered: 06/18/06
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Should i pick the ones that are done? And yes i got them from THE. but there are also a lot of things mentioned above of what all could be slight factors. my casing was a little thicker than normal. substrate= 1 1/4 inch and casing 1/2 inch deep. thanks. it's so hard to keep the casing moist even misting 2 or 3 times a day. and i don't want to over water. i didn't let the casing fully colonize. but there were a few patches showing when i put in the FC. but yea, should i pick the ones that have the gills showing? thanks
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure


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Re: small shrooms [Re: 19741974]
#5913181 - 07/29/06 08:53 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yes. Pick after the veil tears. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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well it keeps happening.... over, and over again...
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5643379#Post5643379
why would workman be able to identify it from a certain vendor?
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19741974
Stranger

Registered: 06/18/06
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Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
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Who are yo talking to monstermitch? Thanx
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ToTheExtreme, LOL
That Bug up yourAss


Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 847
Loc: Where there's fresh powde...
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Re: small shrooms [Re: 19741974]
#5913455 - 07/29/06 11:07 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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My friend gave me a ready to go casing with KSS that he ordered from THE. My mushrooms were miniscule as well.
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  What can I say??? I like this shit!! You've been slissed! despisedicon said: We all know the reasons why 50 Cent and Korn are gay faggots. You suck at life and I'm not talking about the board game fella.
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Hmm... Seems like THE's KSSS is consistently producing small fruits for most people. I've read that in a few threads too.
-FF
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19741974
Stranger

Registered: 06/18/06
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Re: small shrooms [Re: fastfred]
#5913544 - 07/29/06 11:47 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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How could they make it so it produces small shrooms, and why? Thanx. Also i just realized that my hygrometer, which is digital only goes up to 98%, meaning that would be 100% and it usally stays at that. Could that be a problem? Thanx again.
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: small shrooms [Re: 19741974]
#5913661 - 07/30/06 12:43 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Maybe you shouldn't mist so much then. High humidity is fine as long as your not getting your substrate water logged.
As far as the smallness of the fruits, it's probably just a characteristic of the particular sub-strain of KSSS that he's using.
-FF
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19741974
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Re: small shrooms [Re: fastfred]
#5913672 - 07/30/06 12:48 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I notice that if i don't mist a least 2 times a day then the casing dries in some areas, making the soil look like dry tobacco mixed in with it. some areas around the edges are more pronounced with dime sized patches looking very dry. Thanx
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ToTheExtreme, LOL
That Bug up yourAss


Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 847
Loc: Where there's fresh powde...
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Re: small shrooms [Re: 19741974]
#5913718 - 07/30/06 01:14 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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BTW these small shrooms that I grew kicked my ass. Although I was drinking when I ate them, they were good trip wise, but tasted awful
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  What can I say??? I like this shit!! You've been slissed! despisedicon said: We all know the reasons why 50 Cent and Korn are gay faggots. You suck at life and I'm not talking about the board game fella.
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Zen Peddler


Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
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Actually small shrooms can also be the result of an inferior spore match - which is why isolation on agar is a better idea than multispore inoculation.
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Then you're taking a crapshoot as to whether you picked a good sub-strain or not.
At least with multispore you're guaranteed that you'll get a good variety of sub-strains.
With agar isolation you stand the chance of picking a non-fruiting substrain, in which case you'll get nothing at all for your efforts.
-FF
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19741974
Stranger

Registered: 06/18/06
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Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
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Re: small shrooms [Re: fastfred]
#5914350 - 07/30/06 07:54 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I also notice that the whole thing is allready starting to shrink alittle and pull away from the sides. is that normal for a first flush that isn't even done and that is producing tiny shrooms? also after i cased the substrate i didn't mist at all untill i put it in the fruit chamber. should i have been watering at this stage? it didn't look like it needed it because everthing looked moist, and i was getting condensastion on the lid that i covered it with. I just wondering if my casing is drying because my substrate has been dry from a long time ago. but not sure and not sure how check it? thanx
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure


Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
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Re: small shrooms [Re: 19741974]
#5914383 - 07/30/06 08:15 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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You can dunk between flushes to rehydrate the substrate. It's normal for the substrate to pull away from the sides of the tray. It's not just from drying though. As the mycelium consumes the substrate, it actually gets smaller because it's being 'eaten'.
Bluemeanie is correct. Strain isolation on agar is the way to go. By isolating individual substrains on agar, you can fruit out several trays of different isolates to determine the best one, then grow that isolate into perpetuity by proper storage of cultures. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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19741974
Stranger

Registered: 06/18/06
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Re: small shrooms [Re: 19741974]
#5914407 - 07/30/06 08:24 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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O.k. i had to do it. I dug down to very bottom of my trays to see it the substrate was moist. i did it right in the middle and one right on the side. and pulled a little of the substrate out and layed it on a dish. it feels perfectly moist and there is no of watering at all. I can not figure this out. Now why would i have to mist so often to keep the casing moist, when i didn't even let it colonize that much. At first site of myc, which was after 2 days, i patched. when noticed it starting to come up through again i put it in the FC at about 5 days total after casing. Is was also told that this was o.k not to lrt it colonize that much. and iv'e seen pic's with shrooms 6 inches tall and the casing had no myc growth on it at all. all the shrooms just popped up through the casing. And that seems like it would be easier to tell weather the casing needs watering or not. if it i covered in white myc how can you tell if it needs watering. and seems like with more myc growth on the casing the more it would dry out, than if you didn't let it colonize as much and had more casing showing. am i right i hope. I really need an expert on this. i spent all this time to watch 1/4 to 1 inch shrooms ready to pick. only one small patch out of the whole thing looks like it might produce a couple good ones. but the other tray i have has about 30 shrooms 1/4 to 1/2 tall with the gills wide open. I'm totally upset. and there are to many variables. Thanx for any more help.
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19741974
Stranger

Registered: 06/18/06
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Re: small shrooms [Re: 19741974]
#5914409 - 07/30/06 08:26 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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even if i don't, don't mean that 99% of the shrooms will be tiny eraser like size. thank though.
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19741974
Stranger

Registered: 06/18/06
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Re: small shrooms [Re: 19741974]
#5914419 - 07/30/06 08:32 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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one more thing that might be a problem is. i have a fish pump with two outputs. there are connected to the FC at about 1 inch from the bottom on eather side of the FC. but my exhaust is also at that same level. is it possible that the air flow is only happening at the bottom of the FC, and i shopuld be fanning as well too. or would this still create good air exchange?
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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Re: small shrooms [Re: 19741974]
#5914509 - 07/30/06 09:30 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I was telling you, 197... that it is most likely a strain problem. I was telling RR that many others, not just me, even workman, has seen a marked difference in THE's KSSS results.
No one has seen those results consistently with spores from another vendor. Results are fine from other vendor's spores.
again, nothing against THE, and I wouldn't think that he "breeds" anything, just buys and sells. for growing cubes is illegal in the US.
I don"t fault him at all, but look for yourself. Do a search if you don't believe me. there are plenty of results that can be backed up by pm's.
calling it like I see it.
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shaman2b
Just anotherfreethinker


Registered: 06/29/04
Posts: 174
Loc: in my head
Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
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Quote:
monstermitch said: if you got your spores from
THE
it is most likely a strain problem. I've seen many people with the exact same problem.
I am using Thai Koh spores from THE (spore syringe is 2 years old!), and the fruits are large. I use several methods, one of which is PF cased to poo and is currently fruiting.
In a separate trial, I've grown out mycelium on agar from these same spores. The mycelium did not show rhizomorphic growth, but was aggressive. I spawned that to millet but no data yet on the results; should have that in another week or so.
I have had some trouble with this strain. IME, it tends to grow large fruits but pinsets are uneven. I am testing with different substrates to see which it seems to prefer.
S2b
-------------------- I am merely transcribing the thoughts of my blind buddy; none of the things I write originate with me.
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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Re: small shrooms [Re: shaman2b]
#5914538 - 07/30/06 09:51 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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the two year old thing could be the answer.
no one I know of used spores from him from that long ago. they were all more recent.
I'm guessing his supply changed or something. anyway, I really don't care. just trying to help find the cause of his problem.
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shaman2b
Just anotherfreethinker


Registered: 06/29/04
Posts: 174
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monstermitch, I'm not criticizing you.
My point is: 1) the mycelium doensn't show much rhizo growth 2) fruiting is sporadic but those that pin tend to be large
It's not my favorite strain for these reasons. If my experience with TK is an anomaly, then maybe I need a different spore source. I've been taking prints for future use, but maybe this is a waste of time if the strain is already degraded.
I'm still learning and trying to share some of my results, as so many others have done.
S2b
-------------------- I am merely transcribing the thoughts of my blind buddy; none of the things I write originate with me.
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19741974
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Registered: 06/18/06
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Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
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I have 3 other sryinges from THE. B+, ko samui regular,and lipa yai. I'll be pissed if they all do that. I just hope it's not me. Actually my next one i want to do a mono tub. and not use WBS( which is one of the best seeds to spawn on i think). Thanx again guys.
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19741974
Stranger

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Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
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Re: small shrooms [Re: 19741974]
#5914578 - 07/30/06 10:22 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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i guess you could say i just picked my first flush, which is about 30 pencil eraser sized shrooms with veils broke to boot. oh well.
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liamtheloser
Advanced Idiot

Registered: 06/07/06
Posts: 1,453
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Re: small shrooms [Re: 19741974]
#5914625 - 07/30/06 10:45 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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lol, nice! They're "fun-sized"! haha
Here's a pic of my beautiful baby puerto rican shroom that I just noticed earlier today 

sucker is about 4 inches tall and looks like a blessed missle! my penis gets jealous just looking at the potential.
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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KSSS is the only strain from THE that has shown those results. I would not worry about any other strains.
and hell, it could always just be a huge coincidence.
THE is a great vendor, don't get me wrong. again, just what I have noticed....over and over.... it's all good in the hood.
well, as long as mushrooms are growing
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19741974
Stranger

Registered: 06/18/06
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well my biggest shroom is about 1 inch tall. I'm going to keep it going anyways. But how do i prepare for a second flush? Accually i'm not really sure what a flush is with what iv'e got going on here. for 3 days now i've been picking twice a day, as that is how they come up. they just keep coming 5 or 7 at a time. instead of all at once. tonight the ones that poped up last night will be 1/2 inch tall and ready to pick. This is really weard. Thanx for any help.
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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Re: small shrooms [Re: 19741974]
#5918452 - 07/31/06 12:36 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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I've had perpetually fruiting substrates plenty of times. just keep on picking them.
do your best to mist the casing around the shrooms and keep it glistening.
water delivery is important.
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Quote:
monstermitch said: KSSS is the only strain from THE that has shown those results. I would not worry about any other strains.
and hell, it could always just be a huge coincidence.
I don't think it's a coincidence. I've also read in many, many threads that people are having problems with KS3 from THE. Some of them even say that they've had good success with KS3 from other vendors, but not THE.
I just wanted to point that out. It's not just MM saying this, it's many different people. And not one of them that I recall seemed to have any problem with THE, they just didn't like the KS3 that THE sells.
-FF
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