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Offlinedizzim
Born Again Head
Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 238
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
re-inoculation?? And other questions.
    #5911302 - 07/29/06 07:12 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

My friend knocked up 4 jars. 2 with GT and 2 with TAK. after 6 days the GTs have quite a bit of growth but the TAK has none. Usually it takes 3 days to see something start so I dont think the TAK is going to do anything.

Question: Is it ok to re-inoculate the TAK jars with the remaining GT? Should he PC it again first? worried that after 6 days with no growth it may be prone to contamination.

Or should he just let it go and see what happens? PCing is a drag because he's got a tiny one that only holds a few half-pints or a quart and 1 half-pint.

He just want to get this done today because his GF is out of town and there's no worries about her stopping over. he's Also going to pick up some coir to use at bulk and spawn a couple other jars to that today.

Last question - He's not having any luck making prints....after 24hours on the faintest trace of spores is visible. A couple of the caps had been open for over a day before trying to print, which is likely the problem, but one had just broken its veil and he still got a crappy print....I dont get it.

Sorry this post is all over the place.

D


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Offline76degrees
Apprentice

Registered: 06/08/06
Posts: 350
Loc: Middle Earth
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
Re: re-inoculation?? And other questions. [Re: dizzim]
    #5911360 - 07/29/06 07:56 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I've successfully reinoculated jars after 2 weeks of no growth, but never with a different strain. I would wait for a more experienced grower to give you the low down on that bit. Most will probably tell you to a) start over or b) reinoculate with the same strain ... I would guess.

As for spore prints... well srry I can't help you there. LC is the way to go in my opinion. It's much faster and easier if you are planning on to producing/inoculating more jars.


--------------------
The world is changed. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air. Much that once was is lost, for none now live who remember it.


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Offlinehawksapprentice
Yearns to Snowboard
 User Gallery

Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 3,195
Loc: Oregon
Last seen: 8 months, 6 days
Re: re-inoculation?? And other questions. [Re: 76degrees]
    #5911379 - 07/29/06 08:14 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Coir?? You can't spawn to coir, it's used as a casing material, not bulk substrate.

Prints, Caps being open for a day tends to be the best way to go. You don't want to try printing a cap that has just opened up because they are not producing nearly the quantity of spores that they do a day or more after. It's possible you have had strains that were just poor spore producers.


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"I celebrate the Earth, my home, my mother, my grave, and as long as men are Man they must, if they would preserve the integrated being, do the same---[and preserve]--this rank casual hungry smelly sweaty lusting transitory body, my oozy pulpy liquid-bag-swollen body, bones, blood, hair glands, my bejeweled sex; I love and celebrate it all.  never to let men forget that they are animals as much as gods---that is one thing I shall say."

  Edward Abbey


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OfflineCapless
Student
 User Gallery

Registered: 06/25/06
Posts: 365
Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
Re: re-inoculation?? And other questions. [Re: hawksapprentice]
    #5911381 - 07/29/06 08:21 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

hawksapprentice said:
Coir?? You can't spawn to coir, it's used as a casing material, not bulk substrate.

Prints, Caps being open for a day tends to be the best way to go. You don't want to try printing a cap that has just opened up because they are not producing nearly the quantity of spores that they do a day or more after. It's possible you have had strains that were just poor spore producers.




I'd like to be corrected if I stand wrong, but I remember reading and seeing(in a grow log) that you can spawn to coir. It drys out very fast so you either have to keep it hydrated or expect maybe 2 flushes at the most.


--------------------
http://www.toolband.com/
"... This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality.
Embrace this moment. Remember, We are eternal.
all this pain is an illusion...."


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Offlinehawksapprentice
Yearns to Snowboard
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Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 3,195
Loc: Oregon
Last seen: 8 months, 6 days
Re: re-inoculation?? And other questions. [Re: Capless]
    #5911451 - 07/29/06 09:12 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Haven't seen that one yet. It's possible, coir has a small amount of nutrients in it. But it would be a waste of spawn material considering the results you would get from it.

It is by far not a good bulk substrate to say the least.


--------------------
"I celebrate the Earth, my home, my mother, my grave, and as long as men are Man they must, if they would preserve the integrated being, do the same---[and preserve]--this rank casual hungry smelly sweaty lusting transitory body, my oozy pulpy liquid-bag-swollen body, bones, blood, hair glands, my bejeweled sex; I love and celebrate it all.  never to let men forget that they are animals as much as gods---that is one thing I shall say."

  Edward Abbey


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Offlinedizzim
Born Again Head
Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 238
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
Re: re-inoculation?? And other questions. [Re: hawksapprentice]
    #5911493 - 07/29/06 09:41 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Here's a post by Agar regarding using coir as a bulk substrate

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5150228#Post5150228


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Invisiblemonstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay Flag
Re: re-inoculation?? And other questions. [Re: hawksapprentice]
    #5911503 - 07/29/06 09:46 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

hawksapprentice said:
Haven't seen that one yet. It's possible, coir has a small amount of nutrients in it. But it would be a waste of spawn material considering the results you would get from it.

It is by far not a good bulk substrate to say the least.




you are way off man, way off.

coir is a wonderful substrate, just too low in nitrogen.
so add some blood meal.

I use it all the time.


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Offlinedizzim
Born Again Head
Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 238
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
Re: re-inoculation?? And other questions. [Re: dizzim]
    #5911524 - 07/29/06 09:53 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I've read coffee grounds work also to raise nitrogen level. anyone know how much should be used? I'm guessing about a teaspoon coffee grounds per cup of hydrated coir??

I just brewed some coffee and i'm ready to go...once i finish the pot so please respond if you know.

Thanks
D


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Invisiblemonstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay Flag
Re: re-inoculation?? And other questions. [Re: dizzim]
    #5911528 - 07/29/06 09:56 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)



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Invisiblemonstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay Flag
Re: re-inoculation?? And other questions. [Re: monstermitch]
    #5911543 - 07/29/06 10:04 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)



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Invisibleliamtheloser
Advanced Idiot
Male User Gallery
Registered: 06/07/06
Posts: 1,453
Re: re-inoculation?? And other questions. [Re: monstermitch]
    #5911632 - 07/29/06 10:39 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

i use about a cup of spent coffee grounds per 4 pints of coir, 2 tbs of polymer crystals and then spawn with a pint of wbs... works like a charm, colonizes extremely fast, smells better too! I've been trying out the polymer crystals since they can hold a lot of water and they slowly release it when the substrate around them begins drying out, keeping the whole thing equally hydrated. I'm about halfway through my first run with that in my substrate, I'm also testing the polymer crystals in my miracle grow casing mix.

Anyways, I've tried hpoo, I've tried coir, i've tried hpoo/straw, I like coir best.


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Invisiblemonstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay Flag
Re: re-inoculation?? And other questions. [Re: liamtheloser]
    #5911673 - 07/29/06 10:51 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

2 tablespoons to 4 pints?
:bs:


terra sorb crystals,
a Potassium cross-linked polyacrylamide co-polymer


1/2 teaspoon after and before expansion

I don't believe you.


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Edited by monstermitch (07/29/06 11:42 AM)


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Invisibleliamtheloser
Advanced Idiot
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Registered: 06/07/06
Posts: 1,453
Re: re-inoculation?? And other questions. [Re: monstermitch]
    #5911773 - 07/29/06 11:24 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

yeah, mine don't expand that much, the dehydrated crystals are bigger chunks than the ones in your shot glass, and when hydrated they get to lookin like a chunk of broken windshield. they're called soilmoist or sometihng, here's a picture or two, the ones in the middle are the ones with it in the substrate, the ones on the outside edges are the ones with it in the casing layer... they're all doing phenomenal at the moment.





that's half a teaspoon before and after expansion...


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Invisiblemonstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay Flag
Re: re-inoculation?? And other questions. [Re: liamtheloser]
    #5911791 - 07/29/06 11:35 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

is that stuff

a Sodium cross-linked polyacrylamide co-polymer? or,
a Potassium cross-linked polyacrylamide co-polymer


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Invisibleliamtheloser
Advanced Idiot
Male User Gallery
Registered: 06/07/06
Posts: 1,453
Re: re-inoculation?? And other questions. [Re: monstermitch]
    #5911795 - 07/29/06 11:38 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

it's just a polymer (polyacrylamide).


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Invisibleliamtheloser
Advanced Idiot
Male User Gallery
Registered: 06/07/06
Posts: 1,453
Re: re-inoculation?? And other questions. [Re: liamtheloser]
    #5911799 - 07/29/06 11:40 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Oh, and shit, I just realized I wrote tablespoons, I meant teaspoons :laugh:


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Invisibleliamtheloser
Advanced Idiot
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Registered: 06/07/06
Posts: 1,453
Re: re-inoculation?? And other questions. [Re: liamtheloser]
    #5911814 - 07/29/06 11:46 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Doesn't say if it's potassium or sodium crosslinked.

Here's the msds:

JRM Chemical, Inc.
MSDS
MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEET

MSDS: 522
Date: 01/06/03
IDENTIFICATION Page 1 of 3
Product Name Soil Moist
Chemical Family Crosslinked polyacrylamide
Emergency Telephone 216-475-8488
Company JRM Chemical, Inc.
4881 NEO Parkway
Cleveland, OH 44128
Telephone: 216-475-8488
Fax: 216-475-6517

HAZARDOUS INGREDIENTS
Non hazardous under OSHA 29 CFR 1910.1200
HMIS Rating 1
0
1
B
FIRST AID
Skin Wash with warm soapy water after use.
Eye contact Immediately flush with water. If irritation
continues, consult a physician.
Inhalation If dust is present, do not breathe. Move to
open air with fresh air.
Ingestion Do not give any medication unless specified
by a physician.

FIRE FIGHTING MEASURES
Flash Point N/A
LEL N/A
EUL N/A
Extinguishing Media Use water, carbon dioxide, foam.
Special precautions Material is slippery when wet
Special Protective None
Equipment
ACCIDENTAL RELEASE Sweep up spill and dispose. Spilled material is very
slippery when wet.




Page 2 of 3

MSDS
MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEET
SOIL MOIST

HANDLING AND STORAGE
Storage Store in a cool dry location. Keep lid tightly
secured, avoid water and moisture.
Handling Practice good industrial hygiene.
Immediately sweep up any spills. To avoid
potential dust, maintain good housekeeping.
Do not smoke when using.

PERSONAL PROTECTION
Respiratory Protection N/A
Protective Gloves Recommended if prolonged use of product.
Eye Protection N/A
Skin/Body Protection No special suits required
Other Wash affected areas after use.

PHYSICAL/CHEMICAL PROPERTIES
Appearance and color White granular
Odor None
pH 6.0-7.0
Melting Point N/A
Flash Point N/A
Vapor Density N/A
Autoignition N/A

STABILITY
Stablity Stable
Polymerization Will not occur
Conditions to avoid None
Incompatible Material Strong oxidizing agents

TOXICOLOGICAL
Accute Toxicity
Inhalation Non toxic by inhalation
Dermal Non toxic
Oral Non toxic; large amounts can cause GI Tract
disturbance. LD50 Accute oral on rats > 5.0 gm/Kg.

IRRITATION
Eyes Non irritating
Skin Non irritating
Product does not contain any OSHA hazardous components.

Page 3 of 3


MSDS
MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEET
SOIL MOIST

ECOLOGICAL
Considered non toxic to the aquatic environment.

DISPOSAL
Dispose in accordance with city, state and federal regulations.

TRANSPORTATION
Not regulated by Department of Transportation.

REGULATORY
Components are on TSCA and Canada DSL.
Not regulated by OSHA. 29 CFR 1910.1200.

Hazardous Waster Number N/A
RCRA Status Not a hazardous waste

Reportable Quantity (40CFR 302) N/A
Threshold planning Quantity (40CFR 335) N/A

OTHER
NFPA
Fire 1
Health 0
Reactivity 1

CONTACT
PERSON Safety Manager

This information is given without any warranty or representation. We do not assume any legal responsibility for same. It is offered solely for your consideration, investigation and verification. Before using any product, read its label.

JRM Chemical, Inc.
4881 NEO Parkway
Cleveland, OH 44128
Phone: 216-475-8488
Fax: 216-475-6517


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Invisibleliamtheloser
Advanced Idiot
Male User Gallery
Registered: 06/07/06
Posts: 1,453
Re: re-inoculation?? And other questions. [Re: liamtheloser]
    #5911846 - 07/29/06 11:58 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Oh, and anyways, like I said, I'm still experimenting with it, and when I find the optimal amount, i'll post my findings... That's if these work any better than the teks that are already out there. So far I can't compare anything, because I think the crystals will only be beneficial during the fruiting stage, of which, only 3 of the projects are in. I should have more information about the use of water crystals in a week or two... I made some pf-style jars with a lot of the crystals in them, and they are actually colonizing pretty quick... I'm excited to see if the cakes will explode during the dunk, hahaha.

Anyways mitch, if you're interested in knowing the results, just PM me, we can stop hijacking this dudes thread.


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OfflineYamidude
Stranger

Registered: 06/15/06
Posts: 957
Last seen: 15 years, 5 months
Re: re-inoculation?? And other questions. [Re: liamtheloser]
    #5911853 - 07/29/06 12:01 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

liamtheloser said:
Oh, and anyways, like I said, I'm still experimenting with it, and when I find the optimal amount, i'll post my findings... That's if these work any better than the teks that are already out there. So far I can't compare anything, because I think the crystals will only be beneficial during the fruiting stage, of which, only 3 of the projects are in. I should have more information about the use of water crystals in a week or two... I made some pf-style jars with a lot of the crystals in them, and they are actually colonizing pretty quick... I'm excited to see if the cakes will explode during the dunk, hahaha.

Anyways mitch, if you're interested in knowing the results, just PM me, we can stop hijacking this dudes thread.




yeah you know how i like experimenting but im still waiting to see your results on these crystals..


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