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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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InvisibleVeritas
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Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: You have to be stupid to get to heaven. [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5912625 - 07/29/06 05:18 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I don't think that I have "blamed" anyone but individuals for their individual choices. Christianity is based upon the Bible, and the Bible contains both quality ideas AND trash, IMO.

As I have said before, I agree with Gandhi:

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

I would also paraphrase, "I like your Christ, but I do not like your Bible."


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OfflineRRRR
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Re: You have to be stupid to get to heaven. [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5912642 - 07/29/06 05:24 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:

Are there any other christian books that I don't know of?






How about the vast amount of esoteric scripture that didn't make the cut?

The Gospel of Thomas, Gospel of Truth, Gospel of Philip, Gospel of Peter, Gospel of Mary Magdalene, Gospel of the Egyptians, Gospel of the Hebrews, Gospel of James, Gospel of Judas, The First Book of Enoch, The Book of the Secrets of Enoch, Questions of St. Bartholomew, The First Book of Adam and Eve, Pistis Sophia, etc...


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Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)


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OfflineRRRR
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Re: You have to be stupid to get to heaven. [Re: Veritas]
    #5912693 - 07/29/06 05:45 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

You should give the Nag Hammadi Library a whirl. You should embrace the Christian scripture in their fullness before making making judgment calls. Contrary to contemporary popular belief, the Bible was not assembled by the hands of God but rather confirmed by the Council of Nicaea. Because of that, we now have what we call the New Testament. There is an abundance of Christian literature that didn't make it into the Bible, and the vast majority of it is simply amazing.


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Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: You have to be stupid to get to heaven. [Re: RRRR]
    #5912696 - 07/29/06 05:46 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Most churches don't claim that they follow these, so you can't judge them based on those texts.

It could be argued that a christian should embrace Koran or even switch to Islam in order to be a true christian, as much as paradoxical it sounds, but like the above it's a different story. We are talking about the current definition of christianity:
a bunch of people that are supose to stick to the Bible. Some sects and smaller churches are close to that ideal, while Catholicism is probably as far from that idea as atheism is.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineRRRR
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Re: You have to be stupid to get to heaven. [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5912715 - 07/29/06 05:51 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Most churches don't claim that they follow these, so you can't judge them based on those texts.





I am a church going Christian, and at my church we embrace such scripture with open arms, open hearts, and open minds.

What do I care of the majority of churches? I'm sorry that my Christianity doesn't fit into your stereotype, but that isn't really my problem. It's yours.

The church I am currently active in has 2 million followers. I'd say that's pretty significant. But even if it wasn't, what should I care?


--------------------
Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: You have to be stupid to get to heaven. [Re: RRRR]
    #5912736 - 07/29/06 05:57 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

RRRR said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Most churches don't claim that they follow these, so you can't judge them based on those texts.





I am a church going Christian, and at my church we embrace such scripture with open arms, open hearts, and open minds.

What do I care of the majority of churches? I'm sorry that my Christianity doesn't fit into your stereotype, but that isn't really my problem. It's yours.

The church I am currently active in has 2 million followers. I'd say that's pretty significant. But even if it wasn't, what should I care?




I don't get your point. Since when is your church under attack?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineRRRR
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Re: You have to be stupid to get to heaven. [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5912739 - 07/29/06 05:59 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I never implied that my church was under attack, but rather that you have an extremely ignorant, simplified conception of Christianity.


--------------------
Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: You have to be stupid to get to heaven. [Re: RRRR]
    #5912742 - 07/29/06 06:02 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

RRRR said:
I never implied that my church was under attack, but rather that you have an extremely ignorant, simplified conception of Christianity.




I'm talking about christian majority, and christian majority accepts only the Bible, so again, what does your church have to do with it?
Your church is not mainstream christianity. We are not discussing either you or your church here.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineRRRR
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Re: You have to be stupid to get to heaven. [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5912767 - 07/29/06 06:11 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:

Your church is not mainstream christianity. We are not discussing either you or your church here.



Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:

Christianity by concept has all of its sources in the Bible,
the christianity that you have in mind is not real christianity because it assumes and invents things that are not in the Bible, yet claims to use Bible as the source.





Perhaps you should better your wording then. Since the beginning of Christianity, scripture outside of the contemporary Bible has been referenced and praised by Christians. And this is so today. Yet since it doesn't appeal to your stereotypes, it somehow is not "real Christianity".

That is absurd and ignorant. Simple as that.

What you speak of sounds more like Evangelicalism than anything. Most other Protestant denominations I'm familiar with have no objection to aforementioned texts.

If you choose to believe that Evangelicalism is the sole "real" authority of Christianity, then you're beyond my help dear friend.

Christianity has referenced texts outside the Bible as a source of divine knowing for millenniums.


--------------------
Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: You have to be stupid to get to heaven. [Re: RRRR]
    #5912780 - 07/29/06 06:17 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

"real" in this case is defined by the concept

If a person says he is a red t-shirt wearer, then he is only a real t-shir wearer if he wears red t-shirts.

Mainstream christianity defines itself as a bunch of people that follow the official version of the Bible, therefore a real mainstream christian is a person that follows the official version of the Bible

Same goes for you and your church, you are a real follower of alternative scriptures only if you actually follow them


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


Edited by OldWoodSpecter (07/29/06 06:18 PM)


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OfflineRRRR
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Re: You have to be stupid to get to heaven. [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5912792 - 07/29/06 06:23 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

1.
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:

Christianity by concept has all of its sources in the Bible




Originally, you never said mainstream. You said Christianity which is a very broad term.

2. I never knew all denominations of "mainstream" Christianity got together and decided that they were to reject all texts outside of the Bible. I must have missed the memo  :smirk:

Roman Catholicism, by far the largest Christian denomination with over 1 billion baptized members (thus making it the most "mainstream" of any Christian tradition), often praises texts outside of the Bible, such as the writings of Saints or the Apostolic Succession.


--------------------
Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: You have to be stupid to get to heaven. [Re: RRRR]
    #5912798 - 07/29/06 06:26 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

You know, all of this is really irrelevant to this discussion. Bible, alternative texts, it doesn't matter, the point is Christians mostly don't live by them, my bets are most would still have to take off their shoes when entering purgatory, if there is such a thing


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: You have to be stupid to get to heaven. [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5912803 - 07/29/06 06:27 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

"Rapture ready"

I haven't really met many people that take rapture seriously, well I'm one of those that do, so I'm just currious, what's your vision of that. How do you think it would happen?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineRRRR
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Re: You have to be stupid to get to heaven. [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5912813 - 07/29/06 06:29 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I enjoy your company and conversation very much, my friend, but I am on my way out the door. We shall continue this in the near future, so I hope. I'll see ya around  :cool:


--------------------
Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)


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