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Luddite
I watch Fox News


Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 2,946
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Loose Change
#5909177 - 07/28/06 02:58 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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This page gives a scholarly explanation of why the imbecilic Loose Change video is total bullshit.
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=911_morons
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero


Registered: 06/29/04
Posts: 3,531
Last seen: 4 years, 4 months
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Re: Loose Change [Re: Luddite]
#5909409 - 07/28/06 03:59 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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its important to note that even the producers of loose change don't claim to be experts, however they present plenty of views that have been ignored by mass media.
while I doubt anyone with a rational mind would blindly believe either the official report, or Loose Change, it should be obvious that the latter holds more water than the aforementioned in many ways, which is why the video has gotten so much attention.
If it were really that easy to classify as bullshit, it would not have gotten so much credit. The official report on the other hand... is so full of BS, it only gives more credit to alternative theories.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: Loose Change [Re: kotik]
#5909526 - 07/28/06 04:54 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Check out the whole site. Maddox is a total pisser
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DieSpectra
Stranger

Registered: 05/08/06
Posts: 109
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If Dylan Avery would've been killed off it would have only given more credence to his claims. Thus if there was a shadow group inside the government they would have to decide between making a martyr or trying to discredit his claims through dis-information sources like the BS popular mechanics piece.
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David_vs_Goliath
Informer


Registered: 04/01/06
Posts: 208
Loc: Chicago
Last seen: 14 years, 4 months
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or they would have had to kill the people who have created the other 500 websites on the subject and anyone who has ever contributed to the research
-------------------- "People living deeply have no fear of death." "Love the animals, love the plants, love everything. If you love everything, you will perceive the divine mystery in things. Once you perceive it, you will begin to comprehend it better every day. And you will come at last to love the whole world with an all-embracing love." "Our problems are man-made, therefore they may be solved by man. No problem of human destiny is beyond human beings."
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero


Registered: 06/29/04
Posts: 3,531
Last seen: 4 years, 4 months
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all in time...
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
Loc: Crown and Heart
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
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Re: Loose Change [Re: Luddite]
#5912797 - 07/29/06 06:24 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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whats loose change^
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: Loose Change [Re: Basilides]
#5912804 - 07/29/06 06:27 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Two nickels and three pennies. With lint. To go.
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
Loc: Crown and Heart
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
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Seriously, what is it. Don't make me google it, my left hand is in severe pain at the moment
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Loose Change [Re: Basilides]
#5913395 - 07/29/06 10:39 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Viveka
refutation bias


Registered: 10/21/02
Posts: 4,061
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Loose Change [Re: kotik]
#5918381 - 07/31/06 12:08 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
while I doubt anyone with a rational mind would blindly believe either the official report, or Loose Change, it should be obvious that the latter holds more water than the aforementioned in many ways, which is why the video has gotten so much attention.
If it were really that easy to classify as bullshit, it would not have gotten so much credit. The official report on the other hand... is so full of BS, it only gives more credit to alternative theories.
What a joke. Here's the point by point describing in detail exactly why Loose Change is total garbage: http://www.ccdominoes.com/lc/LooseChangeGuide.html
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero


Registered: 06/29/04
Posts: 3,531
Last seen: 4 years, 4 months
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Re: Loose Change [Re: Viveka]
#5918392 - 07/31/06 12:12 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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yes, I've seen that site before, and many others like it, and my original quote stands. In fact, you quoted me saying the key phrase. Perhaps you are going through a fit of momentary vertigo when confronted with horrible questions?
Quote:
I said: I doubt anyone with a rational mind would blindly believe either the official report, or Loose Change
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
Edited by kotik (07/31/06 12:15 PM)
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Viveka
refutation bias


Registered: 10/21/02
Posts: 4,061
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Loose Change [Re: kotik]
#5918455 - 07/31/06 12:40 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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If you've seen that site and actually examined the content, how could you assert that Loose Change "holds water" at all? Point after point made in that video is just plain wrong. The whole of the output of the 9/11 conspiracy community has been so weak that contrary to what you said, I find the conspiracy stuff to make a much stronger case for the "official story".
I'm not even saying I could tell you exactly what happened on 9/11. I am saying that Loose Change is pathetically stupid. Watch it again, this time with a healthy dose of skepticism regarding what they are saying, since you must not have caught how flawed it was when you watched it before, or even when you "saw" other information debunking what Loose Change asserted.
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RosettaStoned
Stranger

Registered: 05/29/06
Posts: 540
Loc: North America
Last seen: 16 years, 2 months
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Re: Loose Change [Re: Viveka]
#5918560 - 07/31/06 01:20 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Point after point made in that video is just plain wrong
I've seen sites that say the same thing about the 9/11 commission report. And the people who made the report have been caught in outright lies. While loose change certainly has it's flaws, it does raise valid questions. Whereas the 9/11 commission report is a total whitewash. Try reading the official story with a healthy dose of skepticism.
-------------------- "Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson "Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa
Edited by RosettaStoned (07/31/06 01:21 PM)
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buckwheat
Cynically Insane

Registered: 12/09/02
Posts: 11,179
Loc: Not Enough Characters to ...
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Loose change Certainly has many flaws I'm not a huge fan of it.
I think that Steven Jones, Webster Tarpley and that group are in the right track only focusing on the real smoking guns the ones no debunker has a solid answer for.
Primarily these.
1. The molten steel under Twin Towers and WTC 7 and the collapse of WTC 7 itself.
2. The 15+ Military drills on 9/11 the most drills on any day in history. then go into the history of these drills occurring on the very same day of the terror attacks throughout history like in 7/7 and the Oklahoma bombings. Which often are about the very same type of attack that occurs.
3 History of our Government performing False Flag operations.By declassified documents Like the ones on the CIA website.
This is why [url=&q=alex+jones]Terror Storm[/url] is a step in the right direction for these 911 documentaries.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Loose Change [Re: buckwheat]
#5918645 - 07/31/06 02:01 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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For the most methodical, academic examination of the evidence, I suggest David Ray Griffin's book, The New Pearl Harbor.
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero


Registered: 06/29/04
Posts: 3,531
Last seen: 4 years, 4 months
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one more vote for Terror Storm. !
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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relativexistance
"beads, bees!?!?beads ....BEADS!!!"


Registered: 01/08/04
Posts: 1,778
Last seen: 11 years, 11 months
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Re: Loose Change [Re: Luddite]
#5920691 - 08/01/06 12:49 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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"Watching this video is like being bukakked with stupid. " thats awsome i hadn't read maddox in a while. either way loose change has some ridiculous conspiracy theories when it comes down to it. i'm going to have to go with Occam's razor on this one, I mean whats more likely a radical complex US government plot to kill its own citizens or terrorists wanting to launch a strike against the US due to its policies?
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beatnicknick
The Innovator


Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 1,074
Last seen: 13 years, 5 days
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Quote:
DieSpectra said: If Dylan Avery would've been killed off it would have only given more credence to his claims. Thus if there was a shadow group inside the government they would have to decide between making a martyr or trying to discredit his claims through dis-information sources like the BS popular mechanics piece.
Exactly. I thought Madox was smarter than this, but a lot of what he says has this kind of logic to it.
-------------------- I don't think for myself. I think as though I'm explaining my thoughts to someone else. I'm concerned only for those listening.
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beatnicknick
The Innovator


Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 1,074
Last seen: 13 years, 5 days
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Honestly if all you can do is mock me with childish retarded conspiracies than please, stop, because in my book, that hurts your argument.
Now I'm going to paste this from my other post, if you'd like to debate it seriously, that'd make me 
This time it's edited to be a finer read, although I'm still terrible when it comes to writing and grammar.
Based on what you've said, you think the only reason the government would commit the crimes of 9/11, would be to kill its own citizens. That may be why you do not understand, you don't understand the motive. It is more complex than that. You have to look at how they work, there track record-- everything.
1) MONEY- The Bush Administration has an enormous cash flow that would easily allow it to bribe, to hire top-notch psychologists (think about why they would need these people), they have to money to sway peoples thinking, through television media, they even have the legal right to prison up whoever they want. Money is power.
2) REGARD FOR HUMAN LIFE- The Bush Administration does not care about you, they are not the protectors and saviors. We know this from their environmental policies that poison our earth, so the Bush Administration could recieve more money from large corporations, more fuel for #1, and we know how much they care about human life from the ridiculous war in Iraq (which many of you would of course argue, but in my mind altering intelligence, causing more hatred to the U.S., losing American lives, and tricking the American people into wanting the war make it VERY unjustified)
3) REASON FOR THE ATTACK- The Bush Administration needed America to have a fear of a foreign enemy, to be scared into war.
4) REASON FOR WAR- The Bush Administration is strongly connected to one of the richest industries on Earth, oil. Much of our oil supply is in a very insecure region--the middle east. Now we have a secure Iraqi oil supply, and there oil company is profiting. These big bucks stemed off from the war, which was possible because of 9/11. Yes, there is no connection between 9/11 and the war, but thats not what 70% of Americans were convinced in 2003, the start of the war.
Money=Power Power=No concern about human loss
Attack on own country=War War=Profit
Profit=Money
Now there is the simple theory that terrorists didn't like our policies so they decided to destroy us, they were making a statement, a protest, and according to George Bush, they want us all dead... but this leaves a lot of holes...
1) A nuclear powerplant, which has points on it that with a little research could have been directly hit and caused a reaction, and it was only miles off from one of the planes, the plane passing it along the way to the towers. So if there ultimate goal was death to the U.S., why haven't they done a better job? Why not kill millions instead of thousands? Perhaps people in the Bush Administration had people that they knew and loved that could be accidentally killed? Perhaps this type of attack would cripple there own money? Actually kill people in there organisation?
2) If they were able to pull off such a complex act after six months of research and planning, and in retaliation of our government's policies, why did they not try and kill the government? Why hit the part of the pentagon that was abandoned, and was openly known as abandoned, for the past two years? TWO YEARS!! Why did they do such a bad job at killing our government, the makers of the policies they didn't like? Think about the people that died. Now think of the amount of government that died. What would have been more effecting for swaying government policies?
3) Why didn't we go after the guys that did this to us more than we have? For example, why did Bush cut spending to finding Osama, by the millions, and spend it towards Iraq instead?
Anyway, if the Bush Administration did pull this off, they would have put stupid, easily discreditable conspiracy theories (videos, articles, jumbled in with the real ones) and hire people to discredit these theories all over message boards and chat rooms. They would have let the hysterically retarded conspiracies spread throughout the net and elsewhere, discrediting the whole thing. Loose change could very well be one, I haven't watched it so I couldn't make an estimate.
Does The Bush Administration have no way of paying these terrorists to pull off these horrific and terrible acts? *looks at picture of osama shaking hands with rumsfeld* *shrugs* That sounds like the most reasonable theory to me. Skip all that construction and military involvment crap. That bomb hit the pentagon theory is the worst of them all. That is, my friends, like being fed a bukkake of crap.
Your theory that the terrorists did it can be interpreted as:
The terrorists are insanely stupid and they did exactly the opposite of there goal, they made our government profit. Meanwhile, they caused the least destruction to the government as possible and decided to hit the only abandoned sector of a government building in washington.
-------------------- I don't think for myself. I think as though I'm explaining my thoughts to someone else. I'm concerned only for those listening.
Edited by beatnicknick (08/01/06 03:57 PM)
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