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RosettaStoned
Stranger

Registered: 05/29/06
Posts: 540
Loc: North America
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It is quite amusing that people so readily believe that the motive behind the "terrorists" was to kill americans because they hate our freedom. What do they gain? How do they benefit? One really needs to look for motivation when investigating a crime. But I suspect most of america had the motivation all nice and packaged on their tv so the struggle of thinking for themselves wasn't required.
-------------------- "Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson "Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero


Registered: 06/29/04
Posts: 3,531
Last seen: 4 years, 24 days
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any motive that can be defined in under 5 words is obviously propaganda
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 3 months, 11 days
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Re: Loose Change [Re: kotik]
#5921392 - 08/01/06 10:18 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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They hate our Middle East policy. You're right, that's six.
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RosettaStoned
Stranger

Registered: 05/29/06
Posts: 540
Loc: North America
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
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Re: Loose Change [Re: Redstorm]
#5921995 - 08/01/06 02:03 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Redstorm said: They hate our Middle East policy. You're right, that's six.
So how does attacking us on our soil work to change our policy? Attacking our interests in their region would work to shift the balance of power, but attacking in the west only wakes a sleeping giant. No gain, no benefit...and no reason. Hating our Mid-east policy is in no way a reason to knock down buildings on our soil so that we send 300,000 troops and 30,000 bombs to their countries. If they wanted our troops and our bombs then I ask again, how did it benefit them?
-------------------- "Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson "Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa
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Viveka
refutation bias


Registered: 10/21/02
Posts: 4,061
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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Re: Loose Change [Re: Redstorm]
#5922026 - 08/01/06 02:20 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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That, and they couldn't wait to get their hands on the gold hidden beneath the World Trade Center. The planes were just a distraction so they could pull of the heist. Of course, Donald Rumsfeld commisioned the supposed "islamic terrorists", actually bollywood actors. Rumsfeld and the BA knew that just slamming a giant airliner into each of the two towers wouldn't be dramatic enough to build the case for war so of course they sent in teams to rig up the whole place with explosives so the towers would collapse. All the employees were hypnotized the morning they entered the WTC with ultrasonic transmissions generated by Rudolpho Giulianni and his team of V.I.L.E. henchman. This was done so they wouldn't notice the cutter charges placed on every floor of the buildings, so that the detonations could be triggered at the same floor as the plane went in. The hypnosis beams caused the brains of some of the people to go haywire, this is why people jumped from the buildings later.
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relativexistance
"beads, bees!?!?beads ....BEADS!!!"


Registered: 01/08/04
Posts: 1,778
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
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You know why I think they hate our policies, because THATS WHAT THEY FUCKING SAID!!!!!!
beatnicknick, don't try and misquote me by claiming "my theory" as that is your own and a grievously faltering one at that. When did I say they were stupid? Clearly they were intelligent enough to take over mass passanger flights and coordinate an attack on american soil. They destroyed a MAJOR US landmark which threw a large economy in turmoil. Do you even understand how much business went on in the WTC not to mention the surrounding area? That was a major disruption of business, government and all kinds of socio-economic systems. The attack was a statement by a group protesting US policies, albeit a very violent destructive protest, but a protest nonetheless. Their motives in essense a threat to the sense that, "If you continue your actions we will bomb, terrorize and kill your citizens." It's similar to bombings in all other nations, its to prove a point. What do you think terrorists motives are? Bombing the WTC, one of the largest buildings in the world, in one of the major business capitals of the world, was a action to try and show US weakness and how these terrorist groups have power. They want to use it to show their enemies are weak to encourage their fight. They want to humiliate. Why do you think they drag US soldiers through the street cutting off their limbs and shit and then broadcast it?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Loose Change [Re: Viveka]
#5922164 - 08/01/06 03:12 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Viveka said: That, and they couldn't wait to get their hands on the gold hidden beneath the World Trade Center. The planes were just a distraction so they could pull of the heist. Of course, Donald Rumsfeld commisioned the supposed "islamic terrorists", actually bollywood actors. Rumsfeld and the BA knew that just slamming a giant airliner into each of the two towers wouldn't be dramatic enough to build the case for war so of course they sent in teams to rig up the whole place with explosives so the towers would collapse. All the employees were hypnotized the morning they entered the WTC with ultrasonic transmissions generated by Rudolpho Giulianni and his team of V.I.L.E. henchman. This was done so they wouldn't notice the cutter charges placed on every floor of the buildings, so that the detonations could be triggered at the same floor as the plane went in. The hypnosis beams caused the brains of some of the people to go haywire, this is why people jumped from the buildings later.
You poor deluded fool. Bush and Rummy are puppets of the arch-villain, KKKarl Rove. Giuliani? A lesser dupe. And let's not forget for whom Rove toils. His master is and always has been Sam Walton, safely frozen and issueing edicts from the recently decommissioned (I no longer question the timing) Cheyenne Mountain complex. Heh, Ted Williams' head can't even bunt. It's time for a song.
Walton, Walton uber alles arbeit macht frei.... Come on, sing along, you all know the words!
Walton, Walton........
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RosettaStoned
Stranger

Registered: 05/29/06
Posts: 540
Loc: North America
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
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So their reason for knocking down our buildings was to prove a point? What kind of people do things to prove a point that only gets their main cause set back 1000 fold? I have yet to see one real example of how the terrorists benefited from 9/11. That would be like me trying to get pot legalized and knocking down a DEA building to make the point. Wouldn't make much sense eh?
As to a disruption of our economy doesn't hold much water either. In hindsight the disruption was short lived and the war contractors made tons in profits. And what about the put options on the arline stocks right before 9/11? Major players in the stock market were bracing for the impact. So the shot to our economy being a reason for the terrorist doesn't hold water, as we know the economy recovered and now we have some new oil pipelines flowing. So overall, the only ones who benefited from 9/11 were american interests. Imagine that...
-------------------- "Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson "Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa
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Viveka
refutation bias


Registered: 10/21/02
Posts: 4,061
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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So I see you've resorted to song, is that because you can't face the sting of what really happened? I didn't know if you were ready yet to hear the truth about The Commanding Voice From the Mountain. But I'll bet you didn't know how they "pulled" 7WTC! It was upper atmospheric supersubsonic frequencies generated from the HAARP array in Alaska. Only idiots think it's possible for raging fires and foundation damage to lead to the collapse of a building like that. The planes were loaded with thermite, and a portion of this thermite was actually ejected through a special ejecta port built into the wing by a team of Rovian G.O.O.N.S. directly onto the site of 7WTC, at the exact moment of impact. That's why one of the planes flew in at an angle. The ejected thermite ignited in the firestorm created by the explosives that were preloaded into the plane and also the detonation charges that were planted all over the Towers, and this fell onto the site of 7WTC. This was done to discredit people seeking the truth about 9/11. Walton and all his evil subordinates knew that the thermite traces would be found eventually, and this would appear to implicate their involvement. But once the thermite theory was effectively "debunked" by counter agents and the backlash effectively swept under the rug by the media, the 9/11 truth seekers would be painted as paranoid loons with seriously compromised critical thinking abilities.
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beatnicknick
The Innovator


Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 1,074
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: Loose Change [Re: Viveka]
#5922340 - 08/01/06 04:07 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Before
Honestly if all you can do is mock me with childish retarded conspiracies than please, stop, because in my book, that hurts your argument.
Now I'm going to paste this from my other post, if you'd like to debate it seriously, that'd make me 
This time it's edited to be a finer read, although I'm still terrible when it comes to writing and grammar.
Based on what you've said, you think the only reason the government would commit the crimes of 9/11, would be to kill its own citizens. That may be why you do not understand, you don't understand the motive. It is more complex than that. You have to look at how they work, there track record-- everything.
1) MONEY- The Bush Administration has an enormous cash flow that would easily allow it to bribe, to hire top-notch psychologists (think about why they would need these people), they have to money to sway peoples thinking, through television media, they even have the legal right to prison up whoever they want. Money is power.
2) REGARD FOR HUMAN LIFE- The Bush Administration does not care about you, they are not the protectors and saviors. We know this from their environmental policies that poison our earth, so the Bush Administration could recieve more money from large corporations, more fuel for #1, and we know how much they care about human life from the ridiculous war in Iraq (which many of you would of course argue, but in my mind altering intelligence, causing more hatred to the U.S., losing American lives, and tricking the American people into wanting the war make it VERY unjustified)
3) REASON FOR THE ATTACK- The Bush Administration needed America to have a fear of a foreign enemy, to be scared into war.
4) REASON FOR WAR- The Bush Administration is strongly connected to one of the richest industries on Earth, oil. Much of our oil supply is in a very insecure region--the middle east. Now we have a secure Iraqi oil supply, and there oil company is profiting. These big bucks stemed off from the war, which was possible because of 9/11. Yes, there is no connection between 9/11 and the war, but thats not what 70% of Americans were convinced in 2003, the start of the war.
Money=Power Power=No concern about human loss
Attack on own country=War War=Profit
Profit=Money
Now there is the simple theory that terrorists didn't like our policies so they decided to destroy us, they were making a statement, a protest, and according to George Bush, they want us all dead... but this leaves a lot of holes...
1) A nuclear powerplant, which has points on it that with a little research could have been directly hit and caused a reaction, and it was only miles off from one of the planes, the plane passing it along the way to the towers. So if there ultimate goal was death to the U.S., why haven't they done a better job? Why not kill millions instead of thousands? Perhaps people in the Bush Administration had people that they knew and loved that could be accidentally killed? Perhaps this type of attack would cripple there own money? Actually kill people in there organisation?
2) If they were able to pull off such a complex act after six months of research and planning, and in retaliation of our government's policies, why did they not try and kill the government? Why hit the part of the pentagon that was abandoned, and was openly known as abandoned, for the past two years? TWO YEARS!! Why did they do such a bad job at killing our government, the makers of the policies they didn't like? Think about the people that died. Now think of the amount of government that died. What would have been more effecting for swaying government policies?
3) Why didn't we go after the guys that did this to us more than we have? For example, why did Bush cut spending to finding Osama, by the millions, and spend it towards Iraq instead?
Anyway, if the Bush Administration did pull this off, they would have put stupid, easily discreditable conspiracy theories (videos, articles, jumbled in with the real ones) and hire people to discredit these theories all over message boards and chat rooms. They would have let the hysterically retarded conspiracies spread throughout the net and elsewhere, discrediting the whole thing. Loose change could very well be one, I haven't watched it so I couldn't make an estimate.
Does The Bush Administration have no way of paying these terrorists to pull off these horrific and terrible acts? *looks at picture of osama shaking hands with rumsfeld* *shrugs* That sounds like the most reasonable theory to me. Skip all that construction and military involvment crap. That bomb hit the pentagon theory is the worst of them all. That is, my friends, like being fed a bukkake of crap.
Your theory that the terrorists did it can be interpreted as:
The terrorists are insanely stupid and they did exactly the opposite of there goal, they made our government profit. Meanwhile, they caused the least destruction to the government as possible and decided to hit the only abandoned sector of a government building in washington.
-------------------- I don't think for myself. I think as though I'm explaining my thoughts to someone else. I'm concerned only for those listening.
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relativexistance
"beads, bees!?!?beads ....BEADS!!!"


Registered: 01/08/04
Posts: 1,778
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
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Quote:
beatnicknick said:
1) A nuclear powerplant, which has points on it that with a little research could have been directly hit and caused a reaction, and it was only miles off from one of the planes, the plane passing it along the way to the towers. So if there ultimate goal was death to the U.S., why haven't they done a better job? Why not kill millions instead of thousands? Perhaps people in the Bush Administration had people that they knew and loved that could be accidentally killed? Perhaps this type of attack would cripple there own money? Actually kill people in there organisation?
Quote wiki
A containment building, in its most common usage, is a steel or concrete structure enclosing a nuclear reactor. It is designed to, in any emergency, contain the escape of radiation despite pressures in the range of 60 to 200 psi. The containment is the final barrier to radioactive release, the first being the fuel ceramic itself, the second being the metal fuel cladding tubes, the third being the reactor vessel and coolant system.
The containment building itself is typically an airtight steel structure enclosing the reactor normally sealed off from the outside atmosphere. The steel is either free-standing or attached to the concrete missile shield. In the United States, the design and thickness of the containment and the missile shield are governed by federal regulations (10 CFR 50.55a)
......
In 1988, Sandia National Laboratories conducted a test of slamming a jet fighter into a large concrete block at 481 miles per hour (775 km/h) [7] [8]. The airplane left only a 2.5-inch deep gouge in the concrete. Although the block was not constructed like a containment building missile shield, it was not anchored, etc., the results were considered indicative. A subsequent study by EPRI, the Electric Power Research Institute, concluded that commercial airliners did not pose a danger.
Thats why they didn't fly the plane into a nuclear powerplant. Do you honestly think George Bush is that fucking greedy and evil that he is willing to murder so many of his fellow countrymen? I mean if he was you would kinda have to regard him almost like hitler. Given some may disagree with his policies but come on here people be realistic.
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Viveka
refutation bias


Registered: 10/21/02
Posts: 4,061
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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Quote:
MONEY- The Bush Administration has an enormous cash flow that would easily allow it to bribe, to hire top-notch psychologists (think about why they would need these people), they have to money to sway peoples thinking, through television media, they even have the legal right to prison up whoever they want. Money is power.
Obviously the BA didn't have nearly enough money. That's why they had to demolish the towers with explosives to create a necessary reasoning for war. War=Profit Profit=Money Money=Power
Power=War War=Money
Money=Profit Profit=Money
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The Bush Administration does not care about you, they are not the protectors and saviors. We know this from their environmental policies that poison our earth, so the Bush Administration could recieve more money from large corporations, more fuel for #1, and we know how much they care about human life from the ridiculous war in Iraq
I agree. It's all about them in their minds. I think they should be round up and shot, along with anyone else who uses oil or has ever benefited from the use of petrolium, although I'm sure it's pretty much just the Bush Administration who uses it. Greedy bastards.
Quote:
REASON FOR THE ATTACK- The Bush Administration needed America to have a fear of a foreign enemy, to be scared into war.
Right, which is why they had to bring down, with demolition explosives, both towers and the all important 7WTC. The plane strikes alone would have been laughed at.
Quote:
Anyway, if the Bush Administration did pull this off, they would have put stupid, easily discreditable conspiracy theories (videos, articles, jumbled in with the real ones) and hire people to discredit these theories all over message boards and chat rooms. They would have let the hysterically retarded conspiracies spread throughout the net and elsewhere, discrediting the whole thing. Loose change could very well be one, I haven't watched it so I couldn't make an estimate.
I'm beginning to suspect you're just such a counter agent. So next you're going to tell me that planes brought down the towers? You're probably just trying to get me to believe that so that then when the Bush Administration releases the evidence that it was actually a controlled demolition perpetrated by pseudo-terrorists hired by Rumsfeld posing as government agents, I'll look like an idiot for believing it was airplanes that brought them down, then the 9/11 truth movement will be completely discredited. Nice try . I won't be subject to your brainwashing attempts. Tell Bush or whoever hired you that the truth will not be silenced!
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Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 18 days
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Is it your position that the government of the US perpetrated the 1993 WTC bombing as well? If not, why not?
How about the bombings of the embassies in Africa a few years back? Also done by the US government? The attack on the USS Cole -- another US government plot?
As for your question about why they didn't hit the seat of government -- surely you remember there were four hijacked planes that morning. One of them -- United Airlines flight 93 -- was headed for Washington but never made it. Unless a whole lot of people have been lying to me all my life, both the Capitol and the White House are located in Washington.
Probably just a coincidence, though.
Phred
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Quote:
RosettaStoned said: So their reason for knocking down our buildings was to prove a point? What kind of people do things to prove a point that only gets their main cause set back 1000 fold? I have yet to see one real example of how the terrorists benefited from 9/11. That would be like me trying to get pot legalized and knocking down a DEA building to make the point. Wouldn't make much sense eh?
As to a disruption of our economy doesn't hold much water either. In hindsight the disruption was short lived and the war contractors made tons in profits. And what about the put options on the arline stocks right before 9/11? Major players in the stock market were bracing for the impact. So the shot to our economy being a reason for the terrorist doesn't hold water, as we know the economy recovered and now we have some new oil pipelines flowing. So overall, the only ones who benefited from 9/11 were american interests. Imagine that...
From another thread, we had this exchange:
Quote:
zappaisgod said to Rosetta:
Aren't you one of the "9/11 attack by the US government" gang?
To which Rosetta replied
Quote:
Like I said, your making an assumption. And my personal beliefs on 9/11 have nothing to do with this. But your attempt to discredit me instead of answering my question just goes to prove you are sidestepping the question in true right-wing fashion. Or should I say fascist?
You know discrediting a speaking to avoid their question doesn't make the question any less valid right?
The lieing assertions that I avoided answering any questions aside, someone else seems not to be so proud of his views, since Rosetta thinks his opinions on 911 are such an embarrassment that they cannot be acknowledged. The opinions of his expressed here are precisely the opinions he was ashamed of in the thread entitled "Pat Buchanan: Israel right on Hezbollah, wrong on Lebanon " And his willingness to accept any whackjob jive was exactly the point in that thread.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 3 months, 11 days
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Quote:
What kind of people do things to prove a point that only gets their main cause set back 1000 fold?
Crazy, religious zealots. I won't even name religions because your question applie s to them all.
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d33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
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Re: Loose Change [Re: Redstorm]
#5923008 - 08/01/06 08:04 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Watching that video gives me loose bowels 60% of the time, everytime.
-------------------- I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends. bang bang
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RosettaStoned
Stranger

Registered: 05/29/06
Posts: 540
Loc: North America
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
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Quote:
The lieing assertions that I avoided answering any questions aside, someone else seems not to be so proud of his views, since Rosetta thinks his opinions on 911 are such an embarrassment that they cannot be acknowledged. The opinions of his expressed here are precisely the opinions he was ashamed of in the thread entitled "Pat Buchanan: Israel right on Hezbollah, wrong on Lebanon " And his willingness to accept any whackjob jive was exactly the point in that thread.
Can you explain to me what someone's beliefs on 9/11 have to do with isreal attacking lebanon? You are reading way too far into my reasons for saying that. I am not ashamed in anyway. Well, I take that back I am extremely ashamed of my govt and the people who were supposedly elected to make decisions on my behalf. But there really is nothing to be ashamed about wanting to know the truth of that day.
Just to be clear about my beliefs on 9/11, since you seem so interested in them. I do not believe the official story, at all. As you know, the 9/11 commission people have been caught in a lie concerning able danger. Get caught in a lie once don't ask me to believe you a second time because I won't. I do not know for a fact that the govt was behind it all, but there is abundant evidence supporting such a theory that has not been explained away by govt lapdogs. I do not know if "bush knew" and I actually think his job would be alot easier if he didn't. So it is likely he knew something was going to happen, but I doubt he knew details nor planned them, but of course I wouldn't rule it out either.
As far as weather or not the buildings collapsed from the planes or was "pulled" I don't know. I am totally on the fence with that one. I also do not believe a missile hit the pentagon, but I will not rule it out either. I think it was likely a smaller airplane but I do not know that for a fact. To me the issue of what the plane was or how the building fell is of secondary importance. I go for the heart of the matter and that is, who benefited? Who did it? Who planed it? And how much did people within our govt know? So I don't claim to have all the answers, but I have alot of unanswered questions. Questions that the longer they go unanswered, the more they implicate govt involvement on some level.
There the air is clear and there is nothing to be ashamed of. I just don't believe it has any bearing on isreals right to rampage through it's neighboring countries and commit atrocities all the while claiming "the 6 million, the 6 million". WW2 is over and the arabs didn't have shit to do with it. Tell me about the 6 million when someone is actually trying to exterminate the race instead of just trying kick jews out of their grandparents land. Isreal has no more right to invade lebanon than saddam had to invade kuwait and weather I believe the govt set up 9/11 or not has nothing to do with it.
-------------------- "Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson "Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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What it is relevant to is your willing suspension of disbelief when any whackjob concocts some highly creative bit of nonsense as long as it runs counter to what everybody else believes.
As to this: "There the air is clear and there is nothing to be ashamed of. I just don't believe it has any bearing on Israel's right to rampage through it's neighboring countries and commit atrocities all the while claiming "the 6 million, the 6 million". WW2 is over and the arabs didn't have shit to do with it. Tell me about the 6 million when someone is actually trying to exterminate the race instead of just trying kick jews out of their grandparents land. Israel has no more right to invade lebanon than saddam had to invade kuwait and weather I believe the govt set up 9/11 or not has nothing to do with it. "
I call total bullshit. No one said anything about the 6 million. Israel's right to invade Lebanon was invoked when they were attacked, yet again, by elements in Lebanon sworn to their destruction and funded, supplied and supported by other governments sworn to the destruction of Israel, and which had not been acted against by the, alleged, legitimate government of Lebanon pursuant to article 1556. That's it. You can stamp your feet all you want but they have a right to live and defend themselves. Again, TOTAL BULLSHIT on your part.
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RosettaStoned
Stranger

Registered: 05/29/06
Posts: 540
Loc: North America
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
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Quote:
What it is relevant to is your willing suspension of disbelief when any whackjob concocts some highly creative bit of nonsense as long as it runs counter to what everybody else believes.
So I should believe the 9/11 commission report even though they were caught in an lie? It's not about any wackjob anything, it's about the very people who were nominated to explain those events to us lied. I don't believe liars, if you do that is your prerogative. I would hope you know by now they lied so I don't have to dig up a link, but if you call me on it I will be glad to.
Quote:
I call total bullshit. No one said anything about the 6 million
That's funny, I was watching CNN yesterday and it took the jew on their about all of 1 minute to bring up the 6 million. They are using the 6 million line whenever anyone tries to suggest isreal is out of line. So yes, there are many, many jews talking about the 6 million during debate about the current conflict.
Quote:
Israel's right to invade Lebanon was invoked when they were attacked
This has not been proven. You claim this as does your buddy Phred, but I have seen just as many sources claiming the soldiers were captured by hezbolla inside lebanon. And if that is true then the whole claim that isreal was attacked falls to pieces.
-------------------- "Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson "Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa
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MysticalMattH
Everchanging

Registered: 01/29/06 
Posts: 92
Loc: California
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
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Quote:
beatnicknick said: Your theory that the terrorists did it can be interpreted as:
The terrorists are insanely stupid and they did exactly the opposite of there goal, they made our government profit. Meanwhile, they caused the least destruction to the government as possible and decided to hit the only abandoned sector of a government building in washington.
the terrorists wouldn't be that stupid. thats why i believe that the us government did plan these attacks.
loose change probably does have some bullshit, but it make many valid points also
-------------------- ~Mystical~Matt~H~ What we hear and see on television and the radio and any other form of popular media is a lie. Question authority and form your own opinions. Be sure to be able to back them up.
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