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OfflineRRRR
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Re: Many great inventors artists etc were celibates [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5915247 - 07/30/06 03:05 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

You all know that celibacy doesn't exclude masturbation...right?

You would still be able to have regular release, just not through sexual intercourse with another partner.


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Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Many great inventors artists etc were celibates [Re: RRRR]
    #5915299 - 07/30/06 03:24 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

RRRR said:
You all know that celibacy doesn't exclude masturbation...right?

You would still be able to have regular release, just not through sexual intercourse with another partner.




That depends on the type of celibacy. There are different kinds of celibacy.

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineRRRR
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Re: Many great inventors artists etc were celibates [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5915360 - 07/30/06 03:47 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

RRRR said:
You all know that celibacy doesn't exclude masturbation...right?

You would still be able to have regular release, just not through sexual intercourse with another partner.




That depends on the type of celibacy. There are different kinds of celibacy.

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:



It's best to support your points, rather then just making unfounded statements.

Historically, celibacy has never been used to describe complete abstinence from sexual behavior. Masturbation has always been permitted by the premises of celibacy.

If you beg to differ, please cite a source that says otherwise.

What you speak of is a form of abstinence, not celibacy.


--------------------
Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Many great inventors artists etc were celibates [Re: RRRR]
    #5915385 - 07/30/06 03:56 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

RRRR said:
It's best to support your points, rather then just making unfounded statements.




:lol:

Which thread are you reading? All I have done is ask one person some questions, and then replied to you, stating that there are more than one type of celibacy. I don't reall having much of a point. :smirk:

Quote:


Historically, celibacy has never been used to describe complete abstinence from sexual behavior. Masturbation has always been permitted by the premises of celibacy.

If you beg to differ, please cite a source that says otherwise.

What you speak of is a form of abstinence, not celibacy.




Wikipedia

Celibacy without masturbation is called chaste celibacy. The word celibacy itself is not a concrete term, and can refer to multiple things. Some recognize a distinction between celibacy and abstinence, and some do not.

Not exactly an unfounded statement, like your assertion that I had points to support. :lol:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineRRRR
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Re: Many great inventors artists etc were celibates [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5915431 - 07/30/06 04:06 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:

:lol:



Quote:


Historically, celibacy has never been used to describe complete abstinence from sexual behavior. Masturbation has always been permitted by the premises of celibacy.

If you beg to differ, please cite a source that says otherwise.

What you speak of is a form of abstinence, not celibacy.




Wikipedia

Celibacy without masturbation is called chaste celibacy. The word celibacy itself is not a concrete term, and can refer to multiple things. Some recognize a distinction between celibacy and abstinence, and some do not.



Chaste celibacy isn't even traditionally referred to as celibacy, it's referred to as consecrated virginity. I personally have never heard it referred as so, but rather the latter as defined by Canon 604. Either way, in my experience it ceases to exist outside of a Christian context.

Sorry for my groundless accusations, just not used to it in that sense.  :cool:


--------------------
Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Many great inventors artists etc were celibates [Re: RRRR]
    #5915477 - 07/30/06 04:15 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Fireworks_god is correct, there are different types of celibacy.

Abstinence from both sexual intercourse and masturbation is known as complete celibacy, while partial celibacy allows self-pleasuring.

Here are two examples of complete celibacy:

Quote:

Hindu Celibacy

Brahmacharya is not mere bachelorhood. There should be strict abstinence not merely from sexual intercourse but also from auto-erotic manifestations, from masturbation, from homosexual acts and from all perverse sexual practices.

http://www.sivanandadlshq.org/teachings/brahmacharya.htm





Quote:

Catholic Celibacy

Clerical celibacy is the practice of various religious traditions in which clergy, monastics and those in religious orders (female or male) adopt a celibate life, refraining from marriage and sexual relationships, including masturbation and "impure thoughts" (such as sexual visualisation and fantasies).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clerical_celibacy





To the original poster:  what about all the great inventors, artists, etc... who were/are NOT celibate?  I bet they outnumber the celibates. :wink:


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OfflineRRRR
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Re: Many great inventors artists etc were celibates [Re: Veritas]
    #5915491 - 07/30/06 04:18 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Clerical celibacy, chaste celibacy, and consecrated virginity are all the same thing. They also have no relevancy to this thread, unless of course the original poster is indeed a member of the clergy.  :grin:

I personally see no secular purpose for absolute celibacy...though I'd imagine others disagree.


--------------------
Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Many great inventors artists etc were celibates [Re: RRRR]
    #5915519 - 07/30/06 04:25 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I think that the OP was discussing the energetic benefits of celibacy, which relates more to Hindu practices than Christian/Catholic practices.

My post was in response to the "types of celibacy" question.


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OfflineRRRR
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Re: Many great inventors artists etc were celibates [Re: Veritas]
    #5915531 - 07/30/06 04:27 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I know close to nothing concerning Hinduism, it's actually quite the shame with it being the third largest religion in the world and all.


--------------------
Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Many great inventors artists etc were celibates [Re: RRRR]
    #5915571 - 07/30/06 04:38 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I'm not into religion, but I made a thorough study of world religions before I decided that they were not for me. It is interesting to see the core beliefs reiterated in each belief system, yet so much variation in the practices and details surrounding the core.

To the OP: is it possible that your positive feelings surrounding celibacy were due to having a break from relationships, rather than a break from sex?


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OfflineFospher
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Re: Many great inventors artists etc were celibates [Re: Veritas]
    #5915638 - 07/30/06 05:04 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
...while partial celibacy allows self-pleasuring.




Yes, trekkies and star wars nerds all over the world have followed this strict spiritual practice for the past 20 years.

The only type of celibacy that I can see myself following is an inverse partial celibacy - ie having sex but not masturbating. Because only the prior makes me lose my personal power, the second only increases it.

In Nagualistic practices, it is believed that your sexual energy can be used on two things, one is for dreaming (and Shamans believe that you don't understand something until you dream it), and the other one can be wasted on sex.


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Offlinekotik
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Re: Many great inventors artists etc were celibates [Re: Fospher]
    #5915646 - 07/30/06 05:07 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Fospher said:
Quote:

Veritas said:
...while partial celibacy allows self-pleasuring.




Yes, trekkies and star wars nerds all over the world have followed this strict spiritual practice for the past 20 years.




bwwwaahahahahahaha :lol:  thanks for that  :thumbup:


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Many great inventors artists etc were celibates [Re: kotik]
    #5916067 - 07/30/06 07:15 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

kotik said:
well to be clear, celibacy is not the same as semen retention, and its retention that can lead to health problems, not just in the form of seminal stones, but also relating to the prostate, etc.




I cannot find any support for this claim. Seminal stones, aka prostate stones, are formed in prostatic fluid due to prostate growth or by the calcification of infectious bacteria.

Upon what evidence do you base your assertions?

Quote:

Long term celibacy can lead to impotence, however short-term celibacy can actually prevent it. Somewhat of a paradox.




Again, I cannot find support for this claim. I have read of treating impotence through short-term abstention, but there is simply no evidence of long-term celibacy causing impotence. Evidence, please.


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Invisibleit stars saddam
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Re: Many great inventors artists etc were celibates [Re: Fospher]
    #5916103 - 07/30/06 07:31 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Fospher said:
Quote:

Veritas said:
...while partial celibacy allows self-pleasuring.




Yes, trekkies and star wars nerds all over the world have followed this strict spiritual practice for the past 20 years.




:lol:


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Offlinekotik
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Re: Many great inventors artists etc were celibates [Re: it stars saddam]
    #5916814 - 07/30/06 10:24 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Of course, seminal stones would be the result of not just semen retention, but a complication involving other factors as well, as with any other medical problem. (Or for that matter, any type of problem you can name, none has a single source.) Also, I doubt anyone comes here for actual medical advice, but if they do, I would suggest mental help as a primary concern...

With that said:

http://www.actionlove.com/cases/case11243.htm

Quote:

Sexual dysfunction caused by Semen Retention for no sexual orgasm - How monks disable their prostate's seminal production and then disarm their penises.




http://www.hps-online.com/tsy4.htm

Quote:

Celibacy, however is not the answer. for that deprives men of the therapeutic benefits of sexual stimulation. A man may attain health and longevity if he practices an ejaculation frequency of twice monthly or 24 times in a year.




Again, I'm not taking a stance either way, and of course all of these subjects are up to debate, but if you think about this logically, urine retention is bad for you, and causes problems with the bladder and etc. Fecal retention is bad for you (for obvious reasons) and can cause a plethora of problems, which I won't even name, you can google that gem for yourself. Now, semen retention, considering that it would in fact be a natural process you would train yourself to stop, would reasonably have the same adverse reactions, relative to it's function on the body.

If you are really interested in it, try searching for retrograde ejaculation, which is when your semen finds it's way into your bladder. By most reports, it's not painful or fatal, but just by description alone, does not sound pleasant.


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Many great inventors artists etc were celibates [Re: Mirth]
    #5916949 - 07/30/06 11:02 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

My Lady would not agree. I have been celibate for two or more years at a time. I developed migraines from the conflict. It is not my nature to be celibate and I have been earnest about it in my 20s when everyone was balling everyone on Quaaludes. A controlled middle-way (monogamy) is best for me.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Many great inventors artists etc were celibates [Re: Fospher]
    #5916961 - 07/30/06 11:07 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Profane sex does indeed dissipate one on several levels. Sacred sex, on the other hand, is quite health (wholeness/holiness) inducing. Its effect on the endocrine system alone is remarkable. Suppression and repression in extremis are not the Middle Way and can be subtley masochistic and/or a source for spiritual pride. Been there done that.


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OfflineFospher
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Re: Many great inventors artists etc were celibates [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5917009 - 07/30/06 11:21 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Where is the line between sacred/profane sex? Or is sacred sex only when it is done for procreation, and in that case would be the same as celebation?


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OfflineFospher
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Re: Many great inventors artists etc were celibates [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5917015 - 07/30/06 11:22 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

And according to the latest theological research, it was actually a typo. The word was "celebrate".


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OfflineMirth
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Re: Many great inventors artists etc were celibates [Re: kotik]
    #5917795 - 07/31/06 06:17 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

"lol, just because you don't believe something doesn't make it false. you aren't a doctor."

Ok first of all I never said that my view was absolute truth - its just my humble view, second thanks Mr Veritas for showing that in Hinduism celibacy is abstinence from all sexual indulgences that dont bring forth 'kids for the benefit of all' - in fact I have read from many Hindu sources of the great value of semen, they go on and on and on about how it is vital energy not to be squandered on the (relativeley) small pleasure of orgasm .

Ok so its been a few days(four-ish) - heres what has happend, I have had two periods of brief relapse into the begginings of masturbation but no cumming as first time I cut it off real quick and the second time I cut it off a little slower but still retained my semen .At two weeks (if I make it-I hope so) I will post and be totally honest about if I feel any better.

"Why is it so hard to believe that after say, a lifetime of semen retention, it would have adverse effects on your physical body?"


Well ok neither of us have watched statistically enough people both being and not being semen retentive over enough time to have the hard facts in this way, so A) We can look at other people's research - we would have to see many researcher's views as just one may be biased .
B) Alternatively we could talk of the naturalness(silly word I know but - whatever) of semen retention or masturbation and sex - for me I heard of masturbation from a teacher when I was about 11 years old and when I first tried it - it didnt work.I think it is rather a learned and culturally dependant meme .
I have played with but never had intercourse with girls - I learnt and am unlearning masturbation and will only have intercourse with someone whom I wish to have kids with(akways been the case for me) - so for me celibacy is neither really un-natural or natural - just something I want to do.


I said:"I completely dont beleive that long term celibacy can lead to impotence."
fireworks_god asked:
"And why is that? You have studied into the matter? Please provide some understanding that has brought you to opt to not believe this."

Well I have read alot about Hunduistic celibacy and Qi Gong (chinese life energy science) celibacy and neither mentions this as a possible side effect even though both are ancient traditions with huge amounts of experience into these matters, in Qi Gong I have been told that masturbation MUST be quit as a main rule before one can build energy and seriously study the discipline.http://www.chikung.com/chapter8.html
"Masturbating is considered
"energy suicide" in relationship to your internal energy cultivation
practice." .p.s. chi kung talks of swapping vital fuids with a partner as an alternative to standard sex - albeit rather dangerous for your energy if you do it wrongly.

I appreciatte kotic that you arent taking a stance, thats cool, I challenge anyone who doesnt believe semen retention can be great to go for AT LEAST two weeks without even starting to masturbate or move semen closer to ejaculation and then tell me that they found no positive benefit .

An intersting anecdote, I have found a number of times when I have reached a good level of retention that I can stay alert and on top for longer whilst smoking cannabis, spliff after spliff after spliff and I am still going and enjoying the high rather than being overstoned like my friends . I really enjoy this but can get quite mischevous .
Also lacking sleep, overexerting myself and generally doing crappy stuff has less effect when I have been retaining for a while - like there is a shield.


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