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Papaver
Madmin Emeritus?

Registered: 06/01/02
Posts: 26,880
Loc: Radio Free Tibet!
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Re: 10 Years In Prison For Selling Light Bulbs [Re: Gastronomicus]
#5911054 - 07/29/06 02:46 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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The above is an extreme example, but it's indicative of what's going on every day, all across this country, and it's only getting worse. I have watched things change over the past 40 years in ways which I find both terrifying and beyond belief. I remember back in 1984 thinking, "gee I'm glad didn't happen." But now, I'm starting to realize that 1984 was actually the beginning of a big change that was so subtle it couldn't really be seen at the time.
The war on drugs was a big start several decades ago, but the war on terror has really ramped things up, and technology, while having many positive benefits, has become a big tool in our own enslavement into a larger system of control.
It can be argued, that a manner of "carceral state" has sort of been emerging in which we are all coming under closer and closer surveillance and scrutiny; having more data amassed on us; and living our lives in direct consequence of this data collection.
What's scary is how subtle and seamless all this stuff sort of is, and how people seem to willingly accept it, and sometimes enthusiastically participate in it and encourage it at times.
For instance, a lot of people now have to piss in a cup in order to get a job and/or keep their job. This is a voluntary contribution of very personal data, which frankly, is nobody's damn business, but now seems to be commonplace. I say it's voluntary, because you don't have to work at a place that would make you do that, but people need jobs, and so they've eagerly gone along with this program over the past twenty years without any complaint, until now it has become almost ubiquitous.
News is now a for-profit business, and the 24/7 news-cycle of the media constantly needs to be fed with daily tragedies and horror to keep their audience entertained. So they've created an environment in people's minds which is full of constant fear, and it's out of this fear that politicians can get elected by promising to be "tough on crime," so people vote for these politicians because they need to protect their property and their family against the "gangs of roving thugs" out there. And what we end up with is mandatory minimum sentencing, three-stikes-your-out, per-capita incarceration rates six times what they were 40 years ago, and judges loosing power to prosecuting attorneys.
It's not just that the government and corporations are grabbing power (like their wont to do); it's that we've been giving it up! All of us; every day. And we constantly giving away more. If information is power in the information age, then why are we giving so much of it way in exchange for convenience and security?
We're giving up our information and we're giving up our rights...
I dunno. This probably a bit off-topic, but it doesn't seem so. Just a late night rant...
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indica


Registered: 08/17/05
Posts: 18,905
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Re: 10 Years In Prison For Selling Light Bulbs [Re: new_to_shrooms]
#5911075 - 07/29/06 03:00 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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holy christ that's seriously fucked up
it seems the government do more harm than any pot grower, dealer or user could ever do in their lifetime with their habit/hobby.
It's a one-sided war, really. The DEA is quite literally terrorising it's own country.
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StroFun
Repeater

Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 977
Loc: Mycotopia.net
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Re: 10 Years In Prison For Selling Light Bulbs [Re: indica]
#5975476 - 08/18/06 09:45 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Bump
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CaptainH13
Scum


Registered: 10/29/04
Posts: 10,287
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Re: 10 Years In Prison For Selling Light Bulbs [Re: StroFun]
#5975628 - 08/18/06 11:21 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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this all happened right in my backyard.. before i moved here..
ive heard of the store and the story a few times the 3-4 years i've lived here...people still talk about it...
sadly ,it's not suprising in the least...
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macrodactyla
Stranger

Registered: 08/06/06
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Re: 10 Years In Prison For Selling Light Bulbs [Re: CaptainH13]
#5975955 - 08/18/06 01:54 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Things like this make me think more people need to be killed for being so fucking stupid
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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Huomenta
sienitutkija

Registered: 04/26/06
Posts: 1
Loc: suomi
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
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Re: 10 Years In Prison For Selling Light Bulbs [Re: macrodactyla]
#5976008 - 08/18/06 02:17 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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OH LORD!
well im happy that i dont live in us. we have had somewhat same kind of things in my country. The police has surveilanced some local shops that provides hydroponics and spna lights. And because of that, people got busted. THIS SUCKS!
-------------------- Tänään on huominen, josta olit huolissasi eilen.
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StroFun
Repeater

Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 977
Loc: Mycotopia.net
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Re: 10 Years In Prison For Selling Light Bulbs [Re: StroFun]
#6522789 - 02/02/07 09:00 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
StroFun said: Bump
A valuable lesson in life that some newcomers can benefit from.
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Dr_Mcgillicuddy
Stranger

Registered: 07/22/05
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Re: 10 Years In Prison For Selling Light Bulbs [Re: StroFun]
#6522814 - 02/02/07 09:11 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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I have a question... What they say Conspiracy to do this or that or what ever it is. Does conspiracy just mean they talked about doing it or had a plan to do it? and you can be arrested on that ? or is there more to it then that ?
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StroFun
Repeater

Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 977
Loc: Mycotopia.net
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Re: 10 Years In Prison For Selling Light Bulbs [Re: Dr_Mcgillicuddy]
#6522883 - 02/02/07 09:43 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Conspiracy means the cops have reason to believe that they maybe thought about doing something maybe. Please note, doesn't have to be true.
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dedjam
Electro Penguin



Registered: 12/14/05
Posts: 2,139
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Re: 10 Years In Prison For Selling Light Bulbs [Re: Dr_Mcgillicuddy]
#6523212 - 02/02/07 11:51 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dr_Mcgillicuddy said: I have a question... What they say Conspiracy to do this or that or what ever it is. Does conspiracy just mean they talked about doing it or had a plan to do it? and you can be arrested on that ? or is there more to it then that ?
What was that movie with tom cruise...where they had the "pre-crime" division? I forget...but we live in a country where you dont actually have to commit a crime to be guilty of it.
And now since you are guilty until you prove yourself innocent, everyone is at risk. If someone wants you arrested, they can always find a way. The laws are written vague enough that they are open to multiple interpretations. It really is sick.
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CUBErt
Connoisseur ofHallucination


Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 1,067
Loc: Southern CA
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
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Re: 10 Years In Prison For Selling Light Bulbs [Re: dedjam]
#6523401 - 02/02/07 12:53 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Old post it seems but... sickening that this injustice goes on in our own country that supposedly is above all this
-------------------- -CUBErt
 
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: 10 Years In Prison For Selling Light Bulbs [Re: Dr_Mcgillicuddy]
#6525398 - 02/03/07 01:49 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dr_Mcgillicuddy said: I have a question... What they say Conspiracy to do this or that or what ever it is. Does conspiracy just mean they talked about doing it or had a plan to do it? and you can be arrested on that ? or is there more to it then that ?
To prove conspiracy they need to prove that #1 you had knowledge of a planned crime, and #2 you committed one act in furtherance of the crime.
So it's not just talking about something. But, it doesn't take much to prove the "one act in furtherance". If your buddy says he needs to buy some weed and then asks you for a ride downtown and you take him then you've just committed conspiracy to possess a controlled substance.
Even just providing information can sometimes be the one act. Needless to say, you should know a little about the law and be very careful what you admit to. They are very good about making small admissions seem unimportant. Then they put them together and slam you. It's easy to admit two small and separately legal events that then leads to a conspiracy charge.
Normally if your buddy never gets the weed or commits the crime then there is no crime... But with conspiracy they can still nail you for it. For example, if you plan to rob a bank and drive by and case the joint, but never actually rob it then you're innocent. But if two people planned to rob the same bank and then cased the joint then you're guilty of conspiracy to commit armed robbery. In reality conspiracy is one step below "attempted", but it carries much harsher penalties. With conspiracy you don't have to even make the attempt, just conspire to do so. That's why it's always best to tell nobody of your plans.
-FF
Edited by fastfred (02/03/07 01:57 AM)
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Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: 10 Years In Prison For Selling Light Bulbs [Re: dedjam]
#6525742 - 02/03/07 07:36 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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What was that movie with tom cruise...where they had the "pre-crime" division?
Minority Report based on Robert Heinlein's book. He's also the author of Stranger in a Strange Land and inventor of the word grok.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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TypicalTripper
CannabisCuddling Canuck



Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 396
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 11 years, 11 months
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Re: 10 Years In Prison For Selling Light Bulbs [Re: Diploid]
#6787036 - 04/14/07 01:24 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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That's pretty sad. The DEA is really not professional about the whole thing...assuming 1 kilo yields per plant and all. I find it especially disgusting that they negotiate several deals with the victims so they snitch other people.
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: 10 Years In Prison For Selling Light Bulbs [Re: TypicalTripper]
#6789124 - 04/14/07 11:20 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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"Rat on three and you'll go free!" is a saying I've heard from cops.
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Spooge
The Nutter
Registered: 04/21/04
Posts: 5,189
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Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
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Re: 10 Years In Prison For Selling Light Bulbs [Re: Diploid]
#6789247 - 04/15/07 12:05 AM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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Old post, but it made me pull my fucking hair out.
I hate america and all the societies that it built it's government off of.
Welcome to 1984
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pftek
1337

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Re: 10 Years In Prison For Selling Light Bulbs [Re: fastfred]
#8959640 - 09/20/08 04:39 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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Wow this article. I really hate shit like this. Sure if they were guilty of possession get them. But conspiracy... selling light bulbs?
Ridiculous.
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Cap Stemson
Stranger

Registered: 03/30/09
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Re: 10 Years In Prison For Selling Light Bulbs [Re: Diploid]
#10073223 - 03/30/09 10:54 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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What about the bank that probably financed the business? And the government officials that gave them the licenses to establish a business? Are they not apart of the "conspiracy"?
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: 10 Years In Prison For Selling Light Bulbs [Re: Cap Stemson]
#10074572 - 03/30/09 03:25 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Thanks for digging up a thread from over 2 1/2 years ago.
But since you asked...
Quote:
To prove a criminal conspiracy under federal law, 18 U.S.C. § 371, the government must establish three elements: (1) an agreement to commit an offense, (2) willing participation by the defendant, and (3) an overt act in furtherance of the conspiracy. United States v. Edwards, 188 F.3d 230, 234 (4th Cir. 1999). Knowledge and participation in the conspiracy may be proven by circumstantial evidence. United States v. Meredith, 824 F.2d 1418, 1428 (4th Cir. 1987). A criminal conspiracy is nothing more than an agreement to accomplish some common criminal objective, or to work together for a common criminal purpose.
So, no. The cinspiracy existed between the growers and the person that knew they were growing and decided to furnish lights to them. That's all three elements needed to prove a criminal conspiracy.
It's a shitty deal, but that's the law.
-FF
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist


Registered: 03/10/07
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Re: 10 Years In Prison For Selling Light Bulbs [Re: fastfred]
#10075189 - 03/30/09 05:08 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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After reading this article and the responses I am pretty livid.
Conspiracy laws are almost always bs, there doesn't really have to be any substance there to support it.
I imagine it would be an uphill battle to get these repealed? Maybe not if we can highlight some well known injustices and hire a few lobbiests.
An interesting thing about conspiracy laws is that most people break them every day and very few people get charged. Punishment is really harsh too.
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