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FungusMan
I81U812



Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 3,112
Loc: Everywhere
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How many of you still use a casing layer for monotubs...
#5907768 - 07/28/06 01:57 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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As of recently, I see no point. How many of YOU do?
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monstermitch
Growing in Bags Doesn't Work


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 3,911
Loc: Arizona Bay
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Re: How many of you still use a casing layer for monotubs... [Re: FungusMan]
#5907857 - 07/28/06 02:52 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I used to, but no more.
now I have all kinds of monotubs, and I find better results for me without the casing layer.
but it works both ways. faster without one, colonizing anyway.
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FungusMan
I81U812



Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 3,112
Loc: Everywhere
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Re: How many of you still use a casing layer for monotubs... [Re: monstermitch]
#5908047 - 07/28/06 05:22 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Same here. In a monotub, a casing layer seems to add nothing more but time,lol.
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Babo911
Pooper Scooper


Registered: 09/05/05
Posts: 1,745
Loc: Arizona Bay
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
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Re: How many of you still use a casing layer for monotubs... [Re: FungusMan]
#5908082 - 07/28/06 05:44 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
FungusMan said: Same here. In a monotub, a casing layer seems to add nothing more but time,lol.

It also makes you open your tub so there is an added chance for contams, plus if you mistakenly didn't pasteurize or sterilize your casing correctly.
Less stress and to me the same outcome with non-casing
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Ronhero on the Growery is me
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tonyperez420
Shaman Rasta

Registered: 11/03/04
Posts: 1,234
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
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Re: How many of you still use a casing layer for monotubs... [Re: FungusMan]
#5908137 - 07/28/06 06:39 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
FungusMan said: Same here. In a monotub, a casing layer seems to add nothing more but time,lol.
I thought casings were used to retain moisture. I have never fruited a monotub without a casing for that reason, so I am ignorant in that respect, but I will try...
My understanding is that the first flush will be close to the same with or without a casing.... but the second or third flush will suffer because your substrate will dry out.... unless you inject water straight into the substrate with a syringe
does anybody agree with me?
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Omnicracker
Crusted Trolltivator

Registered: 09/18/05
Posts: 1,421
Loc: Wal-Merica
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Re: How many of you still use a casing layer for monotubs... [Re: tonyperez420]
#5908498 - 07/28/06 10:14 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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you can dunk a monotub, i have no exoerience w/o a casing layer, but the dunk should rehydrate just fine.
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FungusMan
I81U812



Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 3,112
Loc: Everywhere
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Re: How many of you still use a casing layer for monotubs... [Re: Omnicracker]
#5909040 - 07/28/06 02:09 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yup. A monotub creates its own "microenviroment, provided you have mastered it to the point you dont have to open it till harvest. Just a dunk, then good as new.
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Wronguy
Registered: 03/05/05
Posts: 4,450
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
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Re: How many of you still use a casing layer for monotubs... [Re: FungusMan]
#5909048 - 07/28/06 02:13 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Unfortunately I do have to use a casing layer, as I use spawn bags for all my grows. There is no environment when it's introduced to the tubs, so a casing layer is a must. I whole heartedly agree that a casing layer is not needed when you spawn directly in tubs and go straight into fruiting following colonization.
This also applies for double tubs as well, not just mono tubs.
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Omnicracker
Crusted Trolltivator

Registered: 09/18/05
Posts: 1,421
Loc: Wal-Merica
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Re: How many of you still use a casing layer for monotubs... [Re: Wronguy]
#5909059 - 07/28/06 02:17 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Wronguy said: There is no environment when it's introduced to the tubs, so a casing layer is a must.
could you just give it a solid misting after you put the spawn bags into the tub? or something similar.
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Wronguy
Registered: 03/05/05
Posts: 4,450
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
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Re: How many of you still use a casing layer for monotubs... [Re: Omnicracker]
#5909070 - 07/28/06 02:22 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I have tried this and had a wide range of results. The RH usually goes below 65% before the first flush comes in or stays at 100%, but the results are not consistent. The other potential option, one that just came to me, is to dunk the substrate before you fruit.
The only problem with this is you still have to wait 2-3 days for the substrate to reform its network after you crumble the bag. I always crumble my substrate before placing it into the tub and it's usually solid again after 2 days.
Dunking would completely eliminate the need or a casing layer for sure.
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Omnicracker
Crusted Trolltivator

Registered: 09/18/05
Posts: 1,421
Loc: Wal-Merica
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Re: How many of you still use a casing layer for monotubs... [Re: Wronguy]
#5909116 - 07/28/06 02:35 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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if you used polyneck bags,

at 100% colonization, you could open the top and fill the bag with water and rubberband it shut. then just pour out the water and crumble the bags into the tub.
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Wronguy
Registered: 03/05/05
Posts: 4,450
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
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Re: How many of you still use a casing layer for monotubs... [Re: Omnicracker]
#5909137 - 07/28/06 02:42 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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That will work, but you're still going to lose at least 2 days for the substrate to reform a solid block. I prefer to have the substrate reform its network before I start introducing water. I would probably be afraid of the substrate going in to fruiting mode with the introduction of water and not wanting to reform itself. If I crumble it first and let it sit in the tub for 2 days, it will be solid again and I can then add water.
Maybe I'll try both and see what happens, but either way it's still 2-3 days to crumble/dunk or dunk/crumble.
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GoaM
damaged


Registered: 08/14/04
Posts: 1,815
Loc: khole
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
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Re: How many of you still use a casing layer for monotubs... [Re: Wronguy]
#5909489 - 07/28/06 04:30 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I was under the impression Rye had to be cased. Can I skip the casings in a monotub with rye as the substrate?
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cloudtop
Stranger


Registered: 08/16/04
Posts: 66
Loc: bespin
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Re: How many of you still use a casing layer for monotubs... [Re: GoaM]
#5909795 - 07/28/06 07:05 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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In the past I've never used a casing layer for mono/bulktubs. This session I'm attempting an approx 50/50 with the majority of the tubs to see the difference.
The only issue I've had with not casing is excess moisture dripping from the lid to the mycelium and matting it down a bit. Normally this results in my having to remove the lid, wipe all of the moisture off, drain standing water, and fan heavily. I'm sure there is probably a better way to handle this, but a casing layer seemed like a safe way to reduce the amount of moisture that comes in direct contact w/ the mycelium.
-------------------- peacefromabovecloudtop
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: How many of you still use a casing layer for monotubs... [Re: GoaM]
#5909828 - 07/28/06 07:27 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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> Can I skip the casings in a monotub with rye as the substrate?
I wouldn't.
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FungusMan
I81U812



Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 3,112
Loc: Everywhere
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Re: How many of you still use a casing layer for monotubs... [Re: cloudtop]
#5909831 - 07/28/06 07:29 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Your talking about condensation, which can be a problem if your room is cooler than your tubs. Fortunately/Unfortunately, my room stays pretty warm. The only time I worry about that is during colonization.
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cloudtop
Stranger


Registered: 08/16/04
Posts: 66
Loc: bespin
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Re: How many of you still use a casing layer for monotubs... [Re: cloudtop]
#5909995 - 07/28/06 08:37 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yeah, it's not particularly due to a temperature differentiation in this case as much as it is excessive humidity & prolonged prevention of gas exchange. I suppose I could attempt to open up a large tray of desiccant in the grow room to pull out moisture, but I'm not particularly concerned as yields are normally worthwhile considering the general neglect.
-------------------- peacefromabovecloudtop
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WIZOLZ
Poor with Needs


Registered: 03/20/06
Posts: 290
Loc: Monte Carlo
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Re: How many of you still use a casing layer for monotubs... [Re: Wronguy]
#5910667 - 07/28/06 11:42 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Wronguy said: I prefer to have the substrate reform its network before I start introducing water. I would probably be afraid of the substrate going in to fruiting mode with the introduction of water and not wanting to reform itself.
I know its writen in Hyphea's pinning strategy to dunk prior to crumbling, I had the same preminition as you here, but went ahead and did what was recommanded. Seems not to have made any extreme failure or lack of myco development, and most surely has benefited their growth. I've done alot of thinking about how molecules of water are transported through the network, can anybody share some light as to how this process occurs?
-------------------- ---------o----o----o-------o------------------------o--o-o- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Requim for a Dream - Paul Oakenfold --------------------------------------------------------------- "The mis/abuse of any form of power, is the worst form of ignorance" ------------------------------------------------------------- WIZOLZ - Lover with a Killer's Smile
Edited by WIZOLZ (07/28/06 11:47 PM)
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beyondsisxth
Title?


Registered: 04/08/05
Posts: 232
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
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Re: How many of you still use a casing layer for monotubs... [Re: WIZOLZ]
#5911796 - 07/29/06 11:38 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Hyphae grow linearly and near the tip there are two important areas to keep in mind. At the tip proton symports are constantly pumping in sugars, ions and nutrients. A cell or two back protons are constantly being pumped out as part of a potassium ion pump. So Because of the K+ pumping in, and all of the other solutes being pumped in because of the H+ symports, a huge solute concentration is created within the hyphae, causing an osmotic gradient so that water flows into the cells. Once water is inside the mycelial network it is free to diffuse through septa based on osmotic gradients.
So basically, osmosis, as is generally the method employed by anything lacking an impermeable skin/barrier.
-------------------- The sun was pulling cheap shots doing commercial body tricks, Behind the back, Under the leg, I think he even did a headspin, On a crossfader that sounded whack, But looked excellent, All of the sudden it gets dim, The crater face steps in, Puts mexican drumbreaks on the Technics, He's like "Let's begin", He conducted an orchestra so dope the sun started sweatin' him, I guess he'd expected to win on pure artistic merit, Composing complex plays with nothin but soundbytes, Burned out the lights, Made MCs too self conscious quit the master mics, For a thousand nights, It continued without a single slip up, Except once the record skipped, But it kinda sounded cool.
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