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OfflinePhishe
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Jesus was ignorant
    #5907544 - 07/28/06 12:21 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

something i just realized about jesus, is that he was completely oblivious to space. Things that were "found out" later in time, he did not know.... don't you think that the son of god should know things like this?

I don't mean any harm to anyone by saying this, i'm simply just bringing this out.

Any discussion?


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: Phishe]
    #5907661 - 07/28/06 12:58 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

He wasn't aware of DVDs and telephones either


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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OfflinePhishe
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: Basilides]
    #5907692 - 07/28/06 01:10 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

How do you think he would react to the discovery of science...?


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: Phishe]
    #5907715 - 07/28/06 01:27 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

As anything else in life. A tool used to build and evolve or one to destroy and kill.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: Phishe]
    #5907841 - 07/28/06 02:39 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Beats me. How would anyone back then react to it? Jesus wasn't the All-Knower, it is God; the Universal Body of Christ that is.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: Phishe]
    #5907852 - 07/28/06 02:50 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

You see, what has been quite successfully hidden from you is that Jesus was actually FROM outerspace! He was sent to Earth to warn us AGAINST YHVH-1, a robotic-multi-laser-armed-space-station whose sole mission is to control or destroy mankind. Unfortunately, due to the ignorance of humanity at that time, Dr. Jesus (Yes, he had a Ph.d) could only explain this extraterrestrial threat with vague metaphors and allegories. To the detriment of all mankind, these teachings of Jesus have been distorted by the vile agents YHVH-1. It has possessed certain individuals with its undetectable mind-controlling beams. These subverted individuals often emphatically call themselves "Christians", which is a top-secret mnemonic. Dr. Jesus wasn't oblivious to space, the mighty YHVH-1 computer-intellegence just makes it seem so!

:tinfoil:


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Offlineporcupine
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: Phishe]
    #5907866 - 07/28/06 02:56 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

oblvious to space? i have no idea what you're trying to say


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Offlinekotik
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: porcupine]
    #5907997 - 07/28/06 04:45 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Christ was the part-human manifestation of God, and God is ignorant, so yes Christ is ignorant as well.

(i.e. God is omnipotent and omniscient, however he rarely consults his own knowledge of everything, hence ignorance)


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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Offlinedanliten
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: kotik]
    #5908012 - 07/28/06 04:56 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

but if he came down and started talking about space, cell phones, TVs, cars, and everything we have people would have thought hes crazy. Then they would have started stoning his ass for telling everyone that one day men would fly. Thats not a very successful way to start a new religion. Not to mention the fact that his real goal is to save everyones soul, even though most people hate him. That is only the speculations of a drug addict though, i could be very wrong.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: Phishe]
    #5908407 - 07/28/06 09:26 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Phishe said:
something i just realized about jesus, is that he was completely oblivious to space. Things that were "found out" later in time, he did not know.... don't you think that the son of god should know things like this?

I don't mean any harm to anyone by saying this, i'm simply just bringing this out.

Any discussion?




Is "your" picture of Jesus, .. A man who's father is the "man God", .. you know, that bearded dude?

Or 'you' see it as "Jesus said", that we are all God's children, and that it is nothing more special about the other, than the other..

Just "eager to learn" your view.. :wink::thumbup:

I am curious!  :grin:


Edited by Gomp (07/28/06 09:41 AM)


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Offlinefairyt
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: Gomp]
    #5908562 - 07/28/06 10:38 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I was wondering the other day what jesus would think about things like cars, computers, big-box stores, cell phones and other things that we have in this day and age that they didnt have back then.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: Phishe]
    #5908814 - 07/28/06 12:28 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

"Son of God," or alternatively, "Son of Man" were titles which referred to the kings of Israel. To be a king was to be so by the Divine Right of Kingship, which later became translated to European kings in a Christian context.

The term 'son of God' became infused with the Johannine doctrine of Christ - markedly different from the Synoptic take of Jesus as 'a man anointed by God.' John's theology later colored the synoptics in the common person's mind, having turned the God anointed man into 'God clothed with flesh.' A thoroughly Greek mythological idea, which is why no self-respecting Jew would accept that doctrine. Most Literalist Christians don't have the first clue about these origins and misidentifications which theology has hybridized as the God-man Christ Jesus.

Y'shua ben Miriam, possibly the child of a Jewess named Miriam and a Roman centurian named Panthera (according to Talmudic writings), was considered to be a magician by numerous people (see Moton Smith's Jesus the Magician) - another Talmudic writing which only seems to diminish the status of Jesus if one believes that God generates a Son, but actually comes across as credible from the perspective of individuals who lived before the theology of Divine Incarnation was made doctrine. In any event, the man Jesus should not be equated with the ostensibly omniscient Godhead.

BTW, no offense taken here. A Jewish Christian Gnostic. I am thoroughly annoyed not by people who question, but by doctrine-parroting robots who are incapable of thinking for themselves, having swallowed the doctrines of other mere mortals like themselves and condemning all those who do not likewise acquiesce, like they are vegetable-people from 'Invasion of the Body Snatchers.'


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineMirth
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5908905 - 07/28/06 01:10 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

First off - when did you meet him ?
Second what have you read that he apparantly said that indicates this lack of knowledge ?
Third I am not in the least bit offended :smile:


--------------------
The ineffable is not always intangible !


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Offlinetallgreen
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: Mirth]
    #5908973 - 07/28/06 01:32 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Jesus was a man. Just like Buddha. They are men who have found the true nature of our existence. This understanding transcends thoughts. When Jesus referred to God He was referring to the thing we are all a part of, the universe. Jesus would never become a Christian of today. I believe He would be labeled an atheist like Buddhists are.


--------------------
Nothing you can know that isn't known.
Nothing you can see that isn't shown.
Nowhere you can be that isn't where you're meant to be.
It's easy.
All you need is love.
- The Beatles


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: Phishe]
    #5908983 - 07/28/06 01:34 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Who cares if he knew whether or not the Earth revolved around the sun? He taught his inner circle the very nature of existence itself.


--------------------


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: Silversoul]
    #5908990 - 07/28/06 01:40 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I admit its been awhile since I've read the New Testament, or the old one for that matter, but I don't recall Jesus teaching any metaphysics. His teachings all seemed to be ethically oriented.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5909000 - 07/28/06 01:48 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

You're just reading his exoteric teachings. Try reading the Gospel of Thomas.

Actually, even in the NT, he talks a great deal about the Kingdom of Heaven, though it's always in the form of a parable, which needs to be decifered.


--------------------


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: Silversoul]
    #5909010 - 07/28/06 01:55 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I'm awful skeptical that Jesus ever sermonzied about the nature of existence, but I'll take another look.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5909016 - 07/28/06 01:58 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

It wouldn't have been in the form of a sermon to the masses. He taught such inner teachings to an inner circle of his disciples, of whom Mary Magdelene was his most trusted. He taught different things to different groups of people according to what they were able to comprehend, just like the Buddha did.


--------------------


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Offlinekotik
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: Silversoul]
    #5909032 - 07/28/06 02:07 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I was under the impression that Jesus was not in fact a historical person, and more of an metaphor himself.


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: kotik]
    #5909051 - 07/28/06 02:14 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

kotik said:
I was under the impression that Jesus was not in fact a historical person, and more of an metaphor himself.



There is a theory that says that. Personally, I don't find the arguments for that to be very convincing.


--------------------


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OfflinePhishe
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: Gomp]
    #5909163 - 07/28/06 02:51 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Gomp said:
Quote:

Phishe said:
something i just realized about jesus, is that he was completely oblivious to space. Things that were "found out" later in time, he did not know.... don't you think that the son of god should know things like this?

I don't mean any harm to anyone by saying this, i'm simply just bringing this out.

Any discussion?




Is "your" picture of Jesus, .. A man who's father is the "man God", .. you know, that bearded dude?

Or 'you' see it as "Jesus said", that we are all God's children, and that it is nothing more special about the other, than the other..

Just "eager to learn" your view.. :wink::thumbup:

I am curious!  :grin:




Well, I actually do not believe in god. I do however believe jesus was a living human in that time. I think the bible however, should not be taken as literally as it is. It is more fables that teach us lessons, and not the words of god. Thats just the way i see it.


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Offlinetallgreen
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: Phishe]
    #5909183 - 07/28/06 03:00 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I agree. The bible should be a story book to teach by example, not a rule book.

"Believing in God" seems like a silly concept to me. It's like saying "I believe in the universe". It's too bad the common understanding of what god is, is a human-like entity up in space watching us, maybe sitting on a big chair with a white beard in a robe. Ridiculous. People in high school used to preach to me when they would discover I was an atheist. Like, "you have to believe in god otherwise you won't ever get to the golden gates of heaven". And I was thinking, "Gold? Why would that be valuable in heaven?".


--------------------
Nothing you can know that isn't known.
Nothing you can see that isn't shown.
Nowhere you can be that isn't where you're meant to be.
It's easy.
All you need is love.
- The Beatles


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OfflineRRRR
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: kotik]
    #5909203 - 07/28/06 03:07 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)


This hieroglyph depicts Horus' annunciation in the first frame, the impregnation by the holy spirit in the second frame, and the birth and receipt of gifts from 3 visitors in the third frame.

Though I do believe Jesus was an actual historical figure, I do indeed question the influence of mythology on how he is perceived as today.


--------------------
Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)


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OfflineZinc
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: Phishe]
    #5909561 - 07/28/06 05:07 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Phishe said:
something i just realized about jesus, is that he was completely oblivious to space. Things that were "found out" later in time, he did not know.... don't you think that the son of god should know things like this?

I don't mean any harm to anyone by saying this, i'm simply just bringing this out.

Any discussion?





In answer to your question, I doubt there is much of a problem to Christianity if Jesus wasn't aware of all the advances in knowledge that would come.

What is a problem to Christianity, however, is that Jesus was a false prophet who predicted that his "second coming" would happen in the first century.

Quote:

For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. (Matthew 16:27-28 KJV)




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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: Zinc]
    #5909583 - 07/28/06 05:21 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Jesus also uses the phrase "shall not taste death" in the Gospel of Thomas. Here's the exact quote: "Whoever discovers what these sayings mean shall not taste death." Do you really think he was being literal there? Or perhaps he was using metaphor and symbolism, like he always did.


--------------------


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OfflineZinc
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: Silversoul]
    #5909640 - 07/28/06 05:46 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Jesus also uses the phrase "shall not taste death" in the Gospel of Thomas. Here's the exact quote: "Whoever discovers what these sayings mean shall not taste death." Do you really think he was being literal there? Or perhaps he was using metaphor and symbolism, like he always did.




In Matthew 16:27-28, Jesus doesn't appear to be using metaphor or symbolism when he says, "There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death...". Not as far as I can see. There are other verses in the Bible which support the idea that Jesus predicted his "second coming" for the first century. Let me quote one Bible scholar:

"The second of the problems mentioned above -- if Jesus expected God to change the world, he was wrong -- is by no means novel. It arose very early in Christianity. This is the most substantial issue in the earliest surviving Christian document, Paul's letter to the Thessalonians. There, we learn, Paul's converts were shaken by the fact that some members of the congregation had died; they expected the Lord to return while they were all still alive. Paul assured them that the (few) dead Christians would be raised so that they could participate in the coming kingdom along with those who were still alive when the Lord returned. The question of just how soon the great event would occur appears in other books of the New Testament. A saying in the synoptics (discussed more fully below) promises that 'some standing here' will still be alive when the Son of Man comes. In the appendix to the Gospel of John (ch. 21), however, Jesus is depicted as discussing an anonymous disciple, called 'the disciple whom Jesus loved', with Peter: 'If it is my will that he remain until I come, what is that to you?' The author then explains, 'So, the rumour spread in the community that this disciple would not die. Yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but "If it is my will that he remain until I come, what is that to you?"' (John 21.21-3).

The history of these adjustments to the view that God would do something dramatic while Jesus' contemporaries were still alive is fairly easy to reconstruct. Jesus originally said that the Son of Man would come in the immediate future, while his hearers were alive... Then, when people started dying, they [the followers of Jesus] said that some would still be alive. When almost the entire first generation was dead, they maintained that one disciple would still be alive. Then he died, and it became necessary to claim that Jesus had not actually promised even this one disciple that he would live to see the great day. By the time we reach one of the latest books of the New Testament, 2 Peter, the return of the Lord has been postponed even further: some people scoff and say, 'Where is the promise of his coming?' But remember, 'with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day' (2 Peter 3.3-8). The Lord is not really slow, but rather keeps time by a different calendar.

In the decades after Jesus' death, then, the Christians had to revise their first expectations again and again. This makes it very probable that the expectation originated with Jesus. We make sense of these pieces of evidence if we think that Jesus himself told his followers that the Son of Man would come while they still lived. The fact that this expectation was difficult for Christians in the first century helps prove that Jesus held it himself. We also note that Christianity survived this early discovery that Jesus had made a mistake very well."

E.P. Sanders (1993) The Historical Figure of Jesus, Penguin.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: Phishe]
    #5912193 - 07/29/06 02:14 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Phishe said:
something i just realized about jesus, is that he was completely oblivious to space. Things that were "found out" later in time, he did not know.... don't you think that the son of god should know things like this?

I don't mean any harm to anyone by saying this, i'm simply just bringing this out.

Any discussion?




I don't understand what you are saying. Which things did he not know? How do you know he didn't know?

Was he supose to teach apostoles quantum physics? What for? What possible benefit to their spirituality would that have?

Are you more spiritual person when you buy a new TV?
Is that progress? It's just a plastic piece of junk, like everything man builds, true spirituality is within us, all else
is just amusement.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


Edited by OldWoodSpecter (07/29/06 02:14 PM)


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: Zinc]
    #5912282 - 07/29/06 02:54 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Paul also can be seen to have taken the apocalyptic message of the end of the world seriously, bidding people not to marry or plan a future. On the other hand, a Gnostic Christian interpretation of Paul suggests a more 'fully-realized eschatology' with the Kingdom of God here and now and realizable (as in the Gospel of Thomas) instead of the 'partially-realized eschatology' in which the bulk of the fulfillment lies in a future time - a mythological construct like the Golden Age in Indian thought (versus the evil Kali-Yuga in which we now dwell) in which 'the lion will lie down with the lamb.' Unlikely that a lion will lose its lion-nature, or that predation in nature will cease in any historical sense, but tell that to the Jehova's Witnesses.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: Phishe]
    #5912425 - 07/29/06 03:44 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Phishe said:
Quote:

Gomp said:
Quote:

Phishe said:
something i just realized about jesus, is that he was completely oblivious to space. Things that were "found out" later in time, he did not know.... don't you think that the son of god should know things like this?

I don't mean any harm to anyone by saying this, i'm simply just bringing this out.

Any discussion?




Is "your" picture of Jesus, .. A man who's father is the "man God", .. you know, that bearded dude?

Or 'you' see it as "Jesus said", that we are all God's children, and that it is nothing more special about the other, than the other..

Just "eager to learn" your view.. :wink::thumbup:

I am curious!  :grin:




Well, I actually do not believe in god. I do however believe jesus was a living human in that time. I think the bible however, should not be taken as literally as it is. It is more fables that teach us lessons, and not the words of god. Thats just the way i see it.





Well..

Do this for me?

Go to erowid..


Take 3994 Trip reports..

Then read them all, and compile them in to a book..
What do you get?


Go figure?

:grin: :thumbup:
:heartpump:


--------------------


--------------------
Disclaimer!?


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5912467 - 07/29/06 03:59 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Paul also can be seen to have taken the apocalyptic message of the end of the world seriously, bidding people not to marry or plan a future. On the other hand, a Gnostic Christian interpretation of Paul suggests a more 'fully-realized eschatology' with the Kingdom of God here and now and realizable (as in the Gospel of Thomas) instead of the 'partially-realized eschatology' in which the bulk of the fulfillment lies in a future time - a mythological construct like the Golden Age in Indian thought (versus the evil Kali-Yuga in which we now dwell) in which 'the lion will lie down with the lamb.' Unlikely that a lion will lose its lion-nature, or that predation in nature will cease in any historical sense, but tell that to the Jehova's Witnesses.




Well, accoarding to the theory of evolution, a lio can become anything or may have become a killer from peacefull animal etc.
So never say never.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5912531 - 07/29/06 04:35 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

If it did change, then it wouldn't be a lion. We do not call a bird a dinosaur.

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5912544 - 07/29/06 04:40 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
We do not call a bird a dinosaur.



Actually, some zoologists do exactly that. Many now talk about the extinction event that wiped out "all non-avian dinosaurs."


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: Silversoul]
    #5912563 - 07/29/06 04:50 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Why not create one, all-encompassing term with which to refer to every distinct species? My statement was not appropriate, as indeed "birds" and "dinosaurs" are groups of animals, and it makes sense to refer to birds as dinosaurs, regardless of common usage.

My point, of course, is that it is foolish to propose that, according to evolution, a lion may become a herbivore. The distinctions between a carnivore and a herbivore are considerable, and it would take enormous amounts (from our frame of reference) of time and subtle changes over that time to produce a "lion" that is a herbivore - by that time, if such did occur, the result would not be  a lion, by all means.

I consider this to be a typical misunderstanding and application of the theory of evolution to support one's baseless faith - sort of like proclaiming that, since our conceptions of the universe, derived through science, change so much, that our present understanding could definitely be wrong, so, therefore, there is no arguement agansit creationism. I watched that Richard Dawkins documentary last night and that evangelist tried that one. He tells Richard Dawkins to not be arrogant in the process, but his own arrogant sense of superiority was emanting from his expressions. What a loser. :thumbdown:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5912564 - 07/29/06 04:51 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
If it did change, then it wouldn't be a lion. We do not call a bird a dinosaur.

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:




It would If we called it that.

In fact, every individual lion is different, yet we all call them with the same name.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5912578 - 07/29/06 04:58 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
It would If we called it that.




No, it would not. With our current description and classification of a lion, any noticeable change in the characteristics of a lion would thus imply a different animal. We can decide to call a dog a cow, but that does not make a dog the same as what we currently refer to as a cow. Playing word games to justify a belief that lions and lambs will literally lay together, or whatever the fuck it was, is nonsense - but then again, so is such a belief. :smirk:

Quote:


In fact, every individual lion is different, yet we all call them with the same name.




And yet all lions share the exact characteristics by which we categorize all of these different animals as lions. There are several subspecies of lion as well, which thus denotes different aspects amongst lions, but these differences are not very signifigant.

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5912589 - 07/29/06 05:01 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Why not create one, all-encompassing term with which to refer to every distinct species? My statement was not appropriate, as indeed "birds" and "dinosaurs" are groups of animals, and it makes sense to refer to birds as dinosaurs, regardless of common usage.

My point, of course, is that it is foolish to propose that, according to evolution, a lion may become a herbivore. The distinctions between a carnivore and a herbivore are considerable, and it would take enormous amounts (from our frame of reference) of time and subtle changes over that time to produce a "lion" that is a herbivore - by that time, if such did occur, the result would not be  a lion, by all means.

I consider this to be a typical misunderstanding and application of the theory of evolution to support one's baseless faith - sort of like proclaiming that, since our conceptions of the universe, derived through science, change so much, that our present understanding could definitely be wrong, so, therefore, there is no arguement agansit creationism. I watched that Richard Dawkins documentary last night and that evangelist tried that one. He tells Richard Dawkins to not be arrogant in the process, but his own arrogant sense of superiority was emanting from his expressions. What a loser. :thumbdown:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:




humans can be carnivores and herbivores, and they can even chose to be one or another.
With enough generations of being vegetarians, our digestive system would adopt.

About the development of science. Well yea, today we are so ignorant that it's funny, and half of our theories are probably wrong, some percentage always is.
BY the way people talk, you'd think humans are a species that understands the universe, and then you go on the street and you see the ironic reality:
we still live on one planet, we still die, we still can't control our own weather, animal life etc.
We are not masters of the universe. He who knows all the sicrets of the univers can easily come up with a way to control it. Every rule can be taken advantage of by making a machine that uses it.
There is nothing wrong in being weak and ignorant as humans are, but it's pathetic when people consider themselfs enlightened and advanced.

Well nature has a sense of poethic justice.
A human being will brag how enlightened and allknowing it is, but at the end of the day, it will die and smell bad, and nature will prove its point: humans are no different than leaves or bacteria, only more complex


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5912595 - 07/29/06 05:04 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
It would If we called it that.




No, it would not. With our current description and classification of a lion, any noticeable change in the characteristics of a lion would thus imply a different animal. We can decide to call a dog a cow, but that does not make a dog the same as what we currently refer to as a cow. Playing word games to justify a belief that lions and lambs will literally lay together, or whatever the fuck it was, is nonsense - but then again, so is such a belief. :smirk:

Quote:


In fact, every individual lion is different, yet we all call them with the same name.




And yet all lions share the exact characteristics by which we categorize all of these different animals as lions. There are several subspecies of lion as well, which thus denotes different aspects amongst lions, but these differences are not very signifigant.

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:




alright then whatever, what's the point of this anyway?
A lion can change, and names are just names


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5912604 - 07/29/06 05:10 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
humans can be carnivores and herbivores, and they can even chose to be one or another.
With enough generations of being vegetarians, our digestive system would adopt.




Yes, with enough generations, perhaps, but a lion will not survive to propagate one generation by eating plants. The odds of lions becoming vegetarians = even more slim. The only reason why lions would possibly be pressured to change into vegetarians would be the lack of prey to consume, but the lack of prey to consume would suggest the lack of food for prey to consume....

Lions will simply go extinct before they start eating salads, most assuredly.

Quote:


About the development of science. Well yea, today we are so ignorant that it's funny, and half of our theories are probably wrong, some percentage always is.




Which is exactly why baseless beliefs that are not supported by any substantiation are more likely to be wrong. :lol:

Quote:


We are not masters of the universe. He who knows all the sicrets of the univers can easily come up with a way to control it. Every rule can be taken advantage of by making a machine that uses it.




Knowing the secrets of the universe is not congruent with wishing to control the universe. If one understood the universe, then one would not need to control it, as the universe controls itself.

Quote:


There is nothing wrong in being weak and ignorant as humans are, but it's pathetic when people consider themselfs enlightened and advanced.




It's even more pathetic when weak and ignorant humans convince themselves of delusions that are not even supported by evidence in their environment. We cannot be perfect, but I would at least wish to be less delusional. :smirk:

Quote:


A human being will brag how enlightened and allknowing it is, but at the end of the day, it will die and smell bad, and nature will prove its point: humans are no different than leaves or bacteria, only more complex




So, humans feel self-important, but they are not, so this means that faith is justified and lions will lay with lambs, and you are just discrediting humans' sense of knowing stuff about reality to justify something they feel they know about reality? Or was this just an unrelated rant? :wtf:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5912773 - 07/29/06 06:13 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Not if those "baseless" beliefs come from entities who DO have the detailed knowledge about the universe.

If I was an allknowing dude who decided to give some hints to humanity, I wouldn't give a damn what they find credible or not, I gave them the truth, and they can do with it what they want. If they can't trust me without proof, they don't deserve the truth anyway.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflinePhishe
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5912914 - 07/29/06 07:11 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

Phishe said:
something i just realized about jesus, is that he was completely oblivious to space. Things that were "found out" later in time, he did not know.... don't you think that the son of god should know things like this?

I don't mean any harm to anyone by saying this, i'm simply just bringing this out.

Any discussion?




I don't understand what you are saying. Which things did he not know? How do you know he didn't know?

Was he supose to teach apostoles quantum physics? What for? What possible benefit to their spirituality would that have?

Are you more spiritual person when you buy a new TV?
Is that progress? It's just a plastic piece of junk, like everything man builds, true spirituality is within us, all else
is just amusement.




I'm just trying to see the way jesus thought of the world. There have been new discoveries since then. Like the world being round for instance. Did jesus think it was a rectangle? How would we know?


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5912944 - 07/29/06 07:19 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
If I was an allknowing dude who decided to give some hints to humanity, I wouldn't give a damn what they find credible or not, I gave them the truth, and they can do with it what they want. If they can't trust me without proof, they don't deserve the truth anyway.




What value, purpose, and meaning would there be if humanity simply trusted and believed one's assertions? Belief without understanding is meaningless and serves no benefit. Belief with understanding is justified.

If such a person were all-knowing, then they would realize this and would know exactly how to interact with humanity in order for humanity to proceed on a path of coming to know it for themselves.

Such an all-knowing person certainly does not seem to be concerned with humanity or its well-being. :rolleyes: Also, a belief cannot stem from any other source than oneself, so, without an appropriate understanding, such a belief is baseless anyways. :lol:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5913022 - 07/29/06 07:45 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
If I was an allknowing dude who decided to give some hints to humanity, I wouldn't give a damn what they find credible or not, I gave them the truth, and they can do with it what they want. If they can't trust me without proof, they don't deserve the truth anyway.




What value, purpose, and meaning would there be if humanity simply trusted and believed one's assertions? Belief without understanding is meaningless and serves no benefit. Belief with understanding is justified.

If such a person were all-knowing, then they would realize this and would know exactly how to interact with humanity in order for humanity to proceed on a path of coming to know it for themselves.

Such an all-knowing person certainly does not seem to be concerned with humanity or its well-being. :rolleyes: Also, a belief cannot stem from any other source than oneself, so, without an appropriate understanding, such a belief is baseless anyways. :lol:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:




Ok, so I was this dude that made humans, well I didn't make them so that they are like me: an aincient being that had eons to learn all those things. No, I made them like you make instant coffee. I made them to know just enough to know where to turn to, how to orient their lives. I don't require their understanding, just their trust.
Some of them are retards, some of them are simply stupid, some of them are uneducated. Where would I get if I asked for everyones understanding? How can I expect a retard to reach my level of understanding when even their most intelligent minds are retards compared to me?
I train them like I'd train a dog. To be on my side and trust me. But hey, if one of those dogs is showing signs that he can really understand, I'm ready to let him into my house because we can talk. For the rest of them, I have a special dog house, which I call heaven.
But I won't let all dogs in there either, because some of them have been defiled by one of my dog watchers who feels he should have gotten an early promotion


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5913052 - 07/29/06 07:54 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Ok, so I was this dude that made humans, well I didn't make them so that they are like me: an aincient being that had eons to learn all those things. No, I made them like you make instant coffee. I made them to know just enough to know where to turn to, how to orient their lives. I don't require their understanding, just their trust.




And why exactly should they give you your trust? Why do you deserve their trust? What is the benefit that they receive from trusting you?

Quote:


Some of them are retards, some of them are simply stupid, some of them are uneducated. Where would I get if I asked for everyones understanding? How can I expect a retard to reach my level of understanding when even their most intelligent minds are retards compared to me?




You could expect them to reach a level at which they could understand if you provided for them to understand. I don't expect anyone to be able to understand what kind of person I am unless I give them information with which to form an understanding. I don't expect anyone working with me in my department to understand what to do or why to do it unless I give them information that they can utilize to determine what to do and why they do it.

Quote:


I train them like I'd train a dog. To be on my side and trust me.




Thus, you set limits on the extent of your relationship with them. The more I give to others for them to understand me, the more we can interact with each other on higher levels, and to greater degrees. I do not dictate their relationship to me, I interact with them to create a relationship, I give them oppurtunities for them to develop themselves so that we can relate in greater ways.

Quote:


But hey, if one of those dogs is showing signs that he can really understand, I'm ready to let him into my house because we can talk. For the rest of them, I have a special dog house, which I call heaven.




The God that Jesus described is one who is most interested in saving the ones who have strayed from the flock, the ones that God has to seek out. :confused:

In all honesty, I wonder if the God that you allude to in such a manner is really the one that exists, if it exists. Perhaps it is another way, and you just did not understand? :grin:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: Phishe]
    #5913079 - 07/29/06 08:10 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Phishe said:
I'm just trying to see the way jesus thought of the world. There have been new discoveries since then. Like the world being round for instance. Did jesus think it was a rectangle? How would we know?



It was rather common knowledge in Jesus' day that the earth was round.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: Silversoul]
    #5913085 - 07/29/06 08:12 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Substantiate.

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5913086 - 07/29/06 08:12 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
And why exactly should they give you your trust? Why do you deserve their trust?




I made them from scratch, their consciousness is my at my will

Quote:


What is the benefit that they receive from trusting you?




the truth

Quote:


You could expect them to reach a level at which they could understand if you provided for them to understand. I don't expect anyone to be able to understand what kind of person I am unless I give them information with which to form an understanding. I don't expect anyone working with me in my department to understand what to do or why to do it unless I give them information that they can utilize to determine what to do and why they do it.






The truth that I did give them is in such a form that they can understand. I've sent my people, and I've made some of them such that they can speak for me.


Quote:


Thus, you set limits on the extent of your relationship with them. The more I give to others for them to understand me, the more we can interact with each other on higher levels, and to greater degrees. I do not dictate their relationship to me, I interact with them to create a relationship, I give them oppurtunities for them to develop themselves so that we can relate in greater ways.





I didn't make them to be my buddies, but as a jewl in the crown of the planet earth. Earth is my work of art, and they are the cherry on top, but still they are my art, not my equals.
I want them to be the eyes that see my earth, the consciousness to experience all its beauty, and a hand to protect it.
So that they share my sentiments about earth, I made them on my own image, so that they can be my hand down there.
Of course, then the dog watcher screwed things up, but I'll deal with him in time.


Quote:


The God that Jesus described is one who is most interested in saving the ones who have strayed from the flock, the ones that God has to seek out. :confused:





Where's the confusion? I'll save everyone who lets themselfs be saved.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5913091 - 07/29/06 08:14 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Substantiate.



Rephrase


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: Silversoul]
    #5913106 - 07/29/06 08:21 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

You assert that such was common knowledge in that specific time, and I encourage you to give us some information that you have considered in forming that assertion. :wink:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5913126 - 07/29/06 08:27 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
You assert that such was common knowledge in that specific time, and I encourage you to give us some information that you have considered in forming that assertion. :wink:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:




Well when Jesus ascended up into heavens, even if he didn't know it before, he must have seen that the earth is round from up there


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5913131 - 07/29/06 08:28 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
I made them from scratch, their consciousness is my at my will




Clarify, the statement doesn't make sense.



Quote:


the truth




And how do they know that what you give them is the truth?

Quote:


I did give them is in such a form that they can understand. I've sent my people, and I've made some of them such that they can speak for me.




Wait, you said that they cannot understand, so they must simply trust. If they can understand, then they will understand, but you stated that not all understand. For being all-knowing, you certainly contradict yourself a lot. :lol: Did you know that? :smirk:


Quote:


I didn't make them to be my buddies, but as a jewl in the crown of the planet earth. Earth is my work of art, and they are the cherry on top, but still they are my art, not my equals.




So you created people to serve your needs, not to simply be people. Little play things to satisfy yourself. :rolleyes:

Quote:


I want them to be the eyes that see my earth, the consciousness to experience all its beauty, and a hand to protect it.




Why would they need to protect it? Did you make it wrong?

Quote:


So that they share my sentiments about earth, I made them on my own image, so that they can be my hand down there.




To be honest, if these are your sentiments about earth, you are a twisted fuck. If we are in your image, then I would hate to look in the mirror if I were you. :lol:

Quote:


Of course, then the dog watcher screwed things up, but I'll deal with him in time.




Which is to say, then, in your all-knowingness, you screwed up. :ooo:


Quote:


Where's the confusion? I'll save everyone who lets themselfs be saved.




If you want them to be saved, then they will be made to let themselves be saved, as you made them. Remember, they are your play things, and you do with them what you want, and look at what they do. :rolleyes:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflinePhishe
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5913135 - 07/29/06 08:29 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

fireworks_god said:
You assert that such was common knowledge in that specific time, and I encourage you to give us some information that you have considered in forming that assertion. :wink:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:




Well when Jesus ascended up into heavens, even if he didn't know it before, he must have seen that the earth is round from up there




I never knew that you travel through space to reach heaven  :tongue2:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5913142 - 07/29/06 08:30 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Well when Jesus ascended up into heavens, even if he didn't know it before, he must have seen that the earth is round from up there




Well, if Jesus realized this when he ascended into heaven, then it was past Jesus' time, and this doesn't explain how it would be common knowledge during his time, now inn'it? :lol:

Don't try to be too clever, now. :smirk:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5913150 - 07/29/06 08:33 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Very well, then. Sailors had noticed for centuries that the horizon on the ocean was curved, and that the sun went below the horizon before the light from it went out. Also, one famous Greek scientist(I want to say Ptolemy, but I'm not sure) measured the circumference of the earth with surprising accuracy for his day by observing the angle of the shadow that the sun cast on two different wells, one of which was in Europe, and another in Africa. It was also well known that the earth cast a round shadow on the moon. Now, I suppose I might have overshot it by saying it was common knowledge at the time, but it would have at least been widely known among anyone with any sort of education, as well as sailors. It would have been widely known enough that I suspect even common people would have know, though I could be wrong.


--------------------


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: Phishe]
    #5913153 - 07/29/06 08:33 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Phishe said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

fireworks_god said:
You assert that such was common knowledge in that specific time, and I encourage you to give us some information that you have considered in forming that assertion. :wink:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:




Well when Jesus ascended up into heavens, even if he didn't know it before, he must have seen that the earth is round from up there




I never knew that you travel through space to reach heaven  :tongue2:




Well you aren't going to stop in the sky, are you?
Haven was a word for sky, it later became a synonime for some alternative dimension or whatever, but heaven is originally the sky and everything above earth. Stars and sun were in heaven.
Angels came from heaven, from above, from the sky, and so did god.
And so did Jesus go up there.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5913155 - 07/29/06 08:34 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Well when Jesus ascended up into heavens, even if he didn't know it before, he must have seen that the earth is round from up there




Well, if Jesus realized this when he ascended into heaven, then it was past Jesus' time, and this doesn't explain how it would be common knowledge during his time, now inn'it? :lol:

Don't try to be too clever, now. :smirk:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:




It was not me who said it was common knowledge


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5913163 - 07/29/06 08:39 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

But you were the one who offered it as an explanation of why it was common knowledge at the time. :smirk:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: Silversoul]
    #5913168 - 07/29/06 08:41 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Very well, then.  Sailors had noticed for centuries that the horizon on the ocean was curved, and that the sun went below the horizon before the light from it went out.  Also, one famous Greek scientist(I want to say Ptolemy, but I'm not sure) measured the circumference of the earth with surprising accuracy for his day by observing the angle of the shadow that the sun cast on two different wells, one of which was in Europe, and another in Africa.  It was also well known that the earth cast a round shadow on the moon.  Now, I suppose I might have overshot it by saying it was common knowledge at the time, but it would have at least been widely known among anyone with any sort of education, as well as sailors.  It would have been widely known enough that I suspect even common people would have know, though I could be wrong.




Excellent. Its amazing what we can know about our environment and how we come to know it (even more amazing when compared to the alternative). :wink:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5913177 - 07/29/06 08:50 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I don't really think that it has an importance or if that proves that Jesus was ignorant, now being able to "predict" the upcoming technology lol.
If God or Jesus knew and know how humans will turn up eventually and everything that's going to happen, that what's the point of all this, what's the point of us?
Jesus came to make us understand that OUR future and OUR spirits "goodness", envelopment or whatever you want to call it, depends on US and the way we decide to live, feel and act. That's what's important.
Did Buddha knew about technology? No, and still he did the same thing as Jesus.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5913182 - 07/29/06 08:53 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Clarify, the statement doesn't make sense.





their consciousness is like the sound of an instrument, and I made the instrument. I designed the DNA chain, I designed the anatomy, the brain etc. When you turn on the switch, consciousness comes on


Quote:

And how do they know that what you give them is the truth?




As I'm teaching them not to lie to one another, so I teach them to trust one another.
As everyone is inocent until proven guilty, so is every statement truth until proven otherwise.
When it is proven otherwise, the shame is not on the one who trusted, but on the one who lied. The victims of lies shall be compensated.
I have shown myself to some of them, and it is up to others to trust those people.
Trust is a risk, people don't take risks because they are afraid, they don't want to lose things. But my humans are supose to be ready to lose things, ready to not care, ready to cast aside their pride.


Quote:

Wait, you said that they cannot understand, so they must simply trust. If they can understand, then they will understand, but you stated that not all understand. For being all-knowing, you certainly contradict yourself a lot. :lol: Did you know that? :smirk:




they will understand the truth, what it means, what is what, but they will not understand why it is so, and how it works. That is the part I don't expect them to understand.

Quote:

So you created people to serve your needs, not to simply be people. Little play things to satisfy yourself. :rolleyes:





Yes, they satisfy me. Is it wrong of an engineer to make a machine that serves his needs?

Quote:

Why would they need to protect it? Did you make it wrong?





Not from itself, but from outside things. There are others who wish to claim it.

Quote:


Which is to say, then, in your all-knowingness, you screwed up. :ooo:





No, I didn't, In the end everything is as I wish, and you just have to wait and see the end.
It was not me who screwed up. Just as it is with humans, I made all beings under me such that they can do as they please. I did not program the eternity of my angels or the lives of my people. They live their own lives and chose what to do. I do not directly control their will, I can only send messages

Quote:


If you want them to be saved, then they will be made to let themselves be saved, as you made them. Remember, they are your play things, and you do with them what you want, and look at what they do. :rolleyes:





I made their bodies and gave them souls, but I did not make their choices. I do see their choices till the end, but I didn't make them.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5913185 - 07/29/06 08:55 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
But you were the one who offered it as an explanation of why it was common knowledge at the time. :smirk:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:




no, that was not an explanation of that. It is not related to what the other guy said. I mearly made a joke about Jesus and flying


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #5913186 - 07/29/06 08:55 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
I don't really think that it has an importance or if that proves that Jesus was ignorant, now being able to "predict" the upcoming technology lol.




Yeah, proving Jesus was ignorant is lame, we should really be trying to prove that Hammurabi was ignorant. :mad:

Quote:


If God or Jesus knew and know how humans will turn up eventually and everything that's going to happen, that what's the point of all this, what's the point of us?




Personally, I find meaning and purpose without considering such a question. What "God or Jesus" knew or didn't know does not pertain to myself and my path.

Quote:


Jesus came to make us understand that OUR future and OUR spirits "goodness", envelopment or whatever you want to call it, depends on US and the way we decide to live, feel and act. That's what's important.




Us?

Quote:


Did Buddha knew about technology? No, and still he did the same thing as Jesus.




Buddha was not a caveman, apparently. Unless Buddha existed before humans made clothing or shelter or fashioned tools, and merely relied upon their own body to provide for his existance... in which case, Buddha would be a monkey....

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5913189 - 07/29/06 08:56 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
no, that was not an explanation of that. It is not related to what the other guy said. I mearly made a joke about Jesus and flying




Yeah, I assumed as much. :grin:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflinePhishe
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #5913431 - 07/29/06 10:52 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
I don't really think that it has an importance or if that proves that Jesus was ignorant, now being able to "predict" the upcoming technology lol.
If God or Jesus knew and know how humans will turn up eventually and everything that's going to happen, that what's the point of all this, what's the point of us?
Jesus came to make us understand that OUR future and OUR spirits "goodness", envelopment or whatever you want to call it, depends on US and the way we decide to live, feel and act. That's what's important.
Did Buddha knew about technology? No, and still he did the same thing as Jesus.




Good point.

But not so much technology as science. Science and Jesus just seem to contradict eachother.

Edit- Ignorance may have been a bold statement on my behalf. I just could not find a better word to explain my thoughts.


Edited by Phishe (07/29/06 10:55 PM)


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: Phishe]
    #5913434 - 07/29/06 10:53 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Phishe said:
Science and Jesus just seem to contradict eachother.



How so?


--------------------


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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: Silversoul]
    #5913442 - 07/29/06 11:00 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Well if you believe in evolution...


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: Phishe]
    #5913443 - 07/29/06 11:00 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Phishe said:
Well if you believe in evolution...



What did Jesus have to say on the subject?


--------------------


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: Phishe]
    #5913446 - 07/29/06 11:02 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Phishe said:
Well if you believe in evolution...




I don't think Jesus ever spoke about the origin of existence. He only spoke of the origin of consciousness/spirit.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: Basilides]
    #5913597 - 07/30/06 12:03 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

My mistake then.


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InvisibleKerbouchardS
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: Phishe]
    #5913868 - 07/30/06 02:36 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Phishe said:
don't you think that the son of god should know things like this?





You did not even Capitalize Jesus or the " Son of God" Shame man, Jesus turned a village into salt, and that was before your ass was born out of mud and asphalt.
The son of god knew all this the time he was born, the time he died, and THE TIME BEFORE WE WERE SCORNED>
Did you hear me say Jesus was in the garden of Edan, Jesus is freedom, he is eating them, and churning demons to rise against him.
Do not boast, and I've asked the lord for my Forgiveness


--------------------
"War Doesn't Decide Who's Right... It Decides Who's Left."


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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: Kerbouchard]
    #5913875 - 07/30/06 02:39 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

haha Flowda, i did not understand much of that, but i'm sure it has a deep meaning to it.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: Phishe]
    #5914237 - 07/30/06 06:15 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Phishe said:
Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
I don't really think that it has an importance or if that proves that Jesus was ignorant, now being able to "predict" the upcoming technology lol.
If God or Jesus knew and know how humans will turn up eventually and everything that's going to happen, that what's the point of all this, what's the point of us?
Jesus came to make us understand that OUR future and OUR spirits "goodness", envelopment or whatever you want to call it, depends on US and the way we decide to live, feel and act. That's what's important.
Did Buddha knew about technology? No, and still he did the same thing as Jesus.




Good point.

But not so much technology as science. Science and Jesus just seem to contradict eachother.

Edit- Ignorance may have been a bold statement on my behalf. I just could not find a better word to explain my thoughts.




Statistically, at least 20%-30% of what you read in highschool science books is probably untrue, because that's how science works.
It always discovers itself to be wrong, and gets updated.
One day kids in elementary school will laugh at our college professors for believing in some things they lear at universities today.
Now pick any 20%-30% of what you read, and imagine it to be compleatly wrong. There are many flat-earth theories today, we just don't know which ones are they.
Science is not a statement, it's a method of discovering truth, and the statement is in constant change, yet every generation of people blindly believe in that statement.
The old ones, might have learned something because in their 100 years of existence they have heard a lot of changing theories, and might have learned not to take science too seriously.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Invisibleindica
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5914258 - 07/30/06 06:26 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

They were all on shrooms! :laugh:
That higher consciousness had to come from somewhere to evolve the ideas outside of mundane life.

There is more to this world and reality and spiritual zone than justmeets the eye, and there were people who knew that, whether they used ethnos or not.
I can't stay long but just wanted to chuck in and contribute :P


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: Phishe]
    #5914262 - 07/30/06 06:27 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Phishe said:

But not so much technology as science. Science and Jesus just seem to contradict eachother.





I don't think they contradict each other, but I can see what you were thinking when you stated that. That science and technology can easily be used as weapons of destruction, as it happens right now. But not only them can do that. Anything can be used as weapons of destruction, a thought, a touch, a conversation, etc... as well as it can be used for good purposes.
So it's only up to us how we choose to use them. See, that power stays in us, maybe if Jesus was here now was preaching also on how to use that technology in doing good and helpful things for the humanity, I don't think He would say not to use them anymore.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: Kerbouchard]
    #5914658 - 07/30/06 11:00 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Flowda said:
You did not even Capitalize Jesus or the " Son of God" Shame man, Jesus turned a village into salt, and that was before your ass was born out of mud and asphalt.
The son of god knew all this the time he was born, the time he died, and THE TIME BEFORE WE WERE SCORNED>
Did you hear me say Jesus was in the garden of Edan, Jesus is freedom, he is eating them, and churning demons to rise against him.
Do not boast, and I've asked the lord for my Forgiveness




jesus was really an ex-con. He didn't make bread appear, he simply stole it. they called him son of g*d because he g*d was a bitch and it was there way of saying son of a bitch. See, "son of g*d".

I'm not sure if you were actually trying to express a coherent thought or not, but I certainly could not understand it. Will you try it again, so we can understand, or is it one of those deals where we can only understand it if we trust in g*d?

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Re: Jesus was ignorant *DELETED* [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5915311 - 07/30/06 03:29 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Post deleted by soulcircus

Reason for deletion: .



Edited by soulcircus (07/30/06 03:30 PM)


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: soulcircus]
    #5915317 - 07/30/06 03:31 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Wonderful belief, too bad it doesn't represent anything more than your feeling.

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5915874 - 07/30/06 06:13 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Wonderful belief, too bad it doesn't represent anything more than your feeling.

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:




I'm not so sure how wonderful a belief is that puts someone that far up on a pedestal.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: Icelander]
    #5915880 - 07/30/06 06:15 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Yes, the only reason to put someone on a pedestal is so you can look up their skirt.  :wink:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: Veritas]
    #5915882 - 07/30/06 06:15 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

:heart: :evil:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: Veritas]
    #5916074 - 07/30/06 07:18 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Yes, the only reason to put someone on a pedestal is so you can look up their skirt.  :wink:




or if he is a higher being?


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I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5916086 - 07/30/06 07:24 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Stop trying to look up God's skirt, sicko.


Edited by MushmanTheManic (07/30/06 07:25 PM)


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InvisibleKerbouchardS
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Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 9,823
Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5916090 - 07/30/06 07:26 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I was saying that Jesus has been, is, and will be the same as God.
From the end, to the beginning, to the infinity.
He stood in time, like a beacon for all to live for, and die.
Christains killed jews, the Romans killed me and you. Jesus knew.


--------------------
"War Doesn't Decide Who's Right... It Decides Who's Left."


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Offlinearray
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: Kerbouchard]
    #5916094 - 07/30/06 07:28 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

jesus was :gayflag:


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InvisibleKerbouchardS
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Re: Jesus was ignorant [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5916095 - 07/30/06 07:29 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:


jesus was really an ex-con. He didn't make bread appear, he simply stole it.






That's a tall tale for someone who was not there. And so is my tale.
Does it really matter if he turned bread into mind, or water into wine?
I think people who target the christian relegion don't understand the true concept of it,
and try to group all the idiot christians in the same group with the free mind spirits.
I know it's about time. Time for the end. The beginning of my sins,
you know that I'm a bad man, no-one can look just like you can.
Take an apple from the body.


--------------------
"War Doesn't Decide Who's Right... It Decides Who's Left."


Edited by Flowda (07/30/06 07:58 PM)


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