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RRRR
Rapture Ready


Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 170
Last seen: 16 years, 9 months
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On Worship
#5906474 - 07/27/06 07:32 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I think we have two choices in the face of such big beauty: terror or awe. And this is precisely why we attempt to chart God, because we want to be able to predict Him, to dissect Him, to carry Him around in our dog and pony show. We are too proud to feel awe and too fearful to feel terror. We reduce Him to math so we don't have to fear Him, and yet the Bible tells us fear is the appropriate response, that it is the beginning of wisdom.
Does this mean God is going to hurt us? No. But I stood on the edge of the Grand Canyon once, behind a railing, and though I was never going to fall off the edge, I feared the thought of it. It is that big of a place, that wonderful of a landscape.
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Too much of our time is spent trying to chart God on a grid, and too little is spent allowing our hearts to feel awe. By reducing Christian spirituality to formula, we deprive our hearts of wonder.
-Donald Miller
-------------------- Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero


Registered: 06/29/04
Posts: 3,531
Last seen: 4 years, 24 days
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Re: On Worship [Re: RRRR]
#5906487 - 07/27/06 07:36 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Does this mean God is going to hurt us? No.
tell that to Job
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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Trepiodos
Disgustipated


Registered: 06/30/06
Posts: 469
Loc: Los Angeles County Jail
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
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Re: On Worship [Re: RRRR]
#5906554 - 07/27/06 07:48 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Why would an all powerful, all knowing, all loving, omnipresent being want you to worship it? Does your god have a weak ego that needs to be massaged by it's creations? Why would a supreme being be a 'him'? It seems that you are talking about a god that is created in the image of feeble minded humans, by feeble minded humans, for feeble minded humans - just bigger and more powerful.
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Chaplain: Let us praise God. O Lord...
Congregation: O Lord...
Chaplain: ...Ooh, You are so big...
Congregation: ...ooh, You are so big...
Chaplain: ...So absolutely huge.
Congregation: ...So absolutely huge.
Chaplain: Gosh, we're all really impressed down here, I can tell You.
Congregation: Gosh, we're all really impressed down here, I can tell You.
Chaplain: Forgive us, O Lord, for this, our dreadful toadying, and...
Congregation: And barefaced flattery.
Chaplain: But You are so strong and, well, just so super.
Congregation: Fantastic.
Humphrey: Amen.
Congregation: Amen.
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And as things fell apart, Nobody paid much attention... - David Byrne, '(Nothing But) Flowers' from the Talking Heads' album, 'Naked'
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RRRR
Rapture Ready


Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 170
Last seen: 16 years, 9 months
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Re: On Worship [Re: kotik]
#5906572 - 07/27/06 07:51 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm skeptical of the assumption that Job was a real historical figure. Rather I see the narrative as a parable, written under divine inspiration in order to teach a theological truth. It was not meant to be taken as literally true.
It's purpose is to display the notion of restoration, illustrated beautifully by Job 19:25 I know that my Redeemer lives
-------------------- Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)
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RRRR
Rapture Ready


Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 170
Last seen: 16 years, 9 months
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The purpose of worship is not to stroke God's ego, but rather to express, teach, and govern the doctrinal beliefs of the community.
Before criticizing worship, it would be far more suitable to criticize which form you speak of. I am not familiar of any form of worship that appeases God's ego.
Which Liturgical, or even Non-Liturgical traditions do you speak of?
As to referring to God as Him, "him" has been used in a generic sense or when the sex of the person is unspecified for ages. This is nothing new, any introductory Writing class will inform you of this.
-------------------- Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)
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leery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
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Re: On Worship [Re: RRRR]
#5906818 - 07/27/06 08:40 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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that's a good book.
i'm not convinced of Christianity being exclusive truth though.
but hey.... so what are your views?
worship doesn't make sense, to me it's like, connecting, fellowship, communion... and "worship" would be a side effect, like you connect to the love, and it moves you to tears and you just fall down and say "thank you, thank you"
-------------------- I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
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RRRR
Rapture Ready


Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 170
Last seen: 16 years, 9 months
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Re: On Worship [Re: leery11]
#5906841 - 07/27/06 08:47 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I also do not hold Christianity as the sole provider of truth. The truths materialized through Christianity are, IMHO, offered in the big three (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) and also in other worldly religions.
One may then ask, "Then why be a Christian instead of a Jew or Muslim or whatever?"
It's about picking the flavor of intuitive means that best suits you. This has largely to do with your worldview.
-------------------- Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)
Edited by RRRR (07/28/06 12:37 PM)
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Trepiodos
Disgustipated


Registered: 06/30/06
Posts: 469
Loc: Los Angeles County Jail
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
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Re: On Worship [Re: RRRR]
#5906941 - 07/27/06 09:18 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
RRRR said: The purpose of worship is not to stroke God's ego, but rather to express, teach, and govern the doctrinal beliefs of the community.
Expressing, teaching and governing the doctrinal beliefs of a community are not worship. These can be performed without worship. Worship is...
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- to idolize: love unquestioningly and uncritically or to excess; venerate as an idol; - to show devotion to (a deity) - the act of expressing reverence to a deity or supernatural entity - the activity of worshipping - to attend religious services - a feeling of profound love and admiration (as in "he worships the ground she walks on")
Does your deity 'wish' to be worshipped? If so, why do you believe this? Because it says so in a book? If so, why believe this book?
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As to referring to God as Him, "him" has been used in a generic sense or when the sex of the person is unspecified for ages.
So your god has a sex, but it is unspecified? This is not about introductory writing. The Abrahamic versions of god have a distinctly male persona. You may worship a deity with decidedly male characteristics, others worship deities with female characteristics. Why project human characteristics upon the unknown? This is the fundamental question which you have ignored.
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And as things fell apart, Nobody paid much attention... - David Byrne, '(Nothing But) Flowers' from the Talking Heads' album, 'Naked'
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
Loc: Crown and Heart
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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"O God,
If I worship thee out of fear of Hell,
Place me in the Hellfire for all eternity.
If I worship thee out of desire for Heaven,
bar me from the Gardens of Paradise for all eternity.
But if I worship thee for thine own beautiful sake, withold not thine
Everlasting beauty, O Lord."
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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RRRR
Rapture Ready


Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 170
Last seen: 16 years, 9 months
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I once stood on the edge of the Grand Canyon. I was in total and utter awe and found myself in an act of worship. Did the steep-sided gorge call to me and insist I worship it? No, rather it was a product of the existing circumstances. Worship is not done out of necessity, but rather a bi-product of being engulfed in Divine love.
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So your god has a sex, but it is unspecified?
The sex of God is imposed as a symbolic attribute, and varies depending on the writer and intentions of the piece. The Pistis Sophia, IMO, illustrates a more feminine side of God, even suggesting the world was created out of her epic struggle. The Gospel of Mary Magdalene is also intriguingly feminine.
I'd love to get into this more-so, but honestly at the moment I'm dead tired. I haven't slept in quite a while. Once rejuvenated, you may go back to probing me as you wish.
-------------------- Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21 (New King James Version)
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