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OfflineBasilides
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Pat Buchanan: Israel right on Hezbollah, wrong on Lebanon
    #5904101 - 07/27/06 01:12 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Video: Pat Buchanan on Hardball with Chris Matthews

No, this is not 'our war'

By Patrick Buchanan

Posted: July 20, 2006
8:36 p.m. Eastern


My country has been "torn to shreds," said Fouad Siniora, the prime minister of Lebanon, as the death toll among his people passed 300 civilian dead, 1,000 wounded, with half a million homeless.

Israel must pay for the "barbaric destruction," said Siniora.

To the contrary, says columnist Lawrence Kudlow, "Israel is doing the Lord's work."

On American TV, former Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu says the ruination of Lebanon is Hezbollah's doing. But is it Hezbollah that is using U.S.-built F-16s, with precision-guided bombs and 155-mm artillery pieces to wreak death and devastation on Lebanon?

No, Israel is doing this, with the blessing and without a peep of protest from President Bush. And we wonder why they hate us.


"Today, we are all Israelis!" brayed Ken Mehlman of the Republican National Committee to a gathering of Christians United for Israel.

One wonders if these Christians care about what is happening to our Christian brethren in Lebanon and Gaza, who have had all power cut off by Israeli airstrikes, an outlawed form of collective punishment, that has left them with no sanitation, rotting food, impure water and days without light or electricity in the horrible heat of July.

When summer power outrages occur in America, it means a rising rate of death among our sick and elderly, and women and infants. One can only imagine what a hell it must be today in Gaza City and Beirut.

But all this carnage and destruction has only piqued the blood lust of the hairy-chested warriors at the Weekly Standard. In a signed editorial, "It's Our War," William Kristol calls for America to play her rightful role in this war by "countering this act of aggression by Iran with a military strike against Iranian nuclear facilities. Why wait?"

"Why wait?" Well, one reason is that the United States has not been attacked. A second is a small thing called the Constitution. Where does George W. Bush get the authority to launch a war on Iran? When did Congress declare war or authorize a war on Iran?

Answer: It never did. But these neoconservatives care no more about the Constitution than they cared about the truth when they lied into war in Iraq.

"Why wait?" How about thinking of the fate of those 25,000 Americans in Lebanon if we launch an unprovoked war on Iran. How many would wind up dead or hostages of Hezbollah if Iran gave the order to retaliate for the slaughter of their citizens by U.S. bombs? What would happen to the 130,000 U.S. troops in Iraq, if Shiites and Iranian "volunteers" joined forces to exact revenge on our soldiers?

What about America? Richard Armitage, who did four tours in Nam and knows a bit about war, says that, in its ability to attack Western targets, al-Qaida is the B Team, Hezbollah the A Team. If Bush bombs Iran, what prevents Hezbollah from launching retaliatory attacks inside the United States?

None of this is written in defense of Hamas, Hezbollah or Iran.

But none of them has attacked our country, nor has Syria, whom Bush I made an ally in the Gulf War and to whom the most decorated soldier in Israeli history, Ehud Barak, offered 99 percent of the Golan Heights. If Nixon, Bush I and Clinton could deal with Hafez al-Assad, a tougher customer than son Bashar, what is the matter with George W. Bush?

The last superpower is impotent in this war because we have allowed Israel to dictate to whom we may and may not talk. Thus, Bush winds up cussing in frustration in St. Petersburg that somebody should tell the Syrians to stop it. Why not pick up the phone, Mr. President?

What is Kristol's moral and legal ground for a war on Iran? It is the "Iranian act of aggression" against Israel and that Iran is on the road to nuclear weapons – and we can't have that.

But there is no evidence Iran has any tighter control over Hezbollah than we have over Israel, whose response to the capture of two soldiers had all the spontaneity of the Schlieffen Plan. And, again, Hezbollah attacked Israel, not us. And there is no solid proof Iran is in violation of the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, which it has signed, but Israel refuses to sign.

If Iran's nuclear program justifies war, why cannot the neocons make that case in the constitutional way, instead of prodding Bush to launch a Pearl Harbor attack? Do they fear they have no credibility left after pushing Bush into this bloody quagmire in Iraq that has cost almost 2,600 dead and 18,000 wounded Americans?

No, Kenny boy, we are not "all Israelis." Some of us still think of ourselves as Americans, first, last and always.

And, no, Mr. Kristol, this is not "our war." It's your war.

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=51164


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Pat Buchanan: Israel right on Hezbollah, wrong on Lebanon [Re: Basilides]
    #5904964 - 07/27/06 10:59 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Nice Article...

I had to look at the video, because I didnt believe Pat Buchanan would say anything like that. I thought it must have been some other Patrick Buchanan. Its nice, however, to see something other than blind allegience to Jews and Israel and Yahweh come from the mouths of the Republican party. And not some Junior Senator from Bumfuck, Wyoming, but a major player in the Republican party.

Edited: Wrong name, stupid.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

Edited by Madtowntripper (07/27/06 11:39 AM)

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InvisibleHank, FTW
Looking for the Answer

Registered: 05/04/06
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Re: Pat Buchanan: Israel right on Hezbollah, wrong on Lebanon [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #5904989 - 07/27/06 11:11 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I think its Pat Buchanan, not Robertson.

Yes, this is a good article, which brings some interesting ideas to light. I loved the way he ended it, saying he is not an Israeli, but an American.

I will say this again, I don't wish any harm on Israel, but if they want to keep stirring up shit, they should take care of themselves.

If America starts a war with Iran, its just going to cause more people to turn away from Israel. They are so short sighted, and are sowing the seeds for a 2nd holocaust IMO.


--------------------
Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Pat Buchanan: Israel right on Hezbollah, wrong on Lebanon [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #5905053 - 07/27/06 11:32 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

What do you mean, sowing seeds for a second holocaust. If they had had their way it would have been done already.

Pat Buchanan is and always has been an isolationist, something that has been out of favor with both the left and the right for decades.

Israel does not "stir up shit". It just wants to be. Hezbollah crossing the border and attacking somehow amounts to "Israel stirring up shit?" Puhleeze.


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OfflineTrepiodos
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Re: Pat Buchanan: Israel right on Hezbollah, wrong on Lebanon [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5905108 - 07/27/06 11:53 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Actually both sides stir up shit. The Zionists (comprised of quite a few people who were not natives of the area) practiced terrorism to get a Jewish state, the other parties learned from their example. I think if you would check, before they started stirring up shit for the establishment of a state, the homicide rate (meaning death at the hands of people) in that area of the world was much lower than it is today. It would be quite reasonable to come to the conclusion that the establishment of states in the area has led to an increase in violence and that establishing more states (such as a Palestinian state) would do nothing to lessen the violence. States quite often legitimize murder, in this case both for those who are support the state of Israel and those who oppose the state of Israel.


--------------------

And as things fell apart,
Nobody paid much attention...

- David Byrne, '(Nothing But) Flowers' from the Talking Heads' album, 'Naked'

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InvisibleHank, FTW
Looking for the Answer

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Re: Pat Buchanan: Israel right on Hezbollah, wrong on Lebanon [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5905180 - 07/27/06 12:29 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
What do you mean, sowing seeds for a second holocaust. If they had had their way it would have been done already.

Pat Buchanan is and always has been an isolationist, something that has been out of favor with both the left and the right for decades.

Israel does not "stir up shit". It just wants to be. Hezbollah crossing the border and attacking somehow amounts to "Israel stirring up shit?" Puhleeze.




Link me to the story that has PROOF Hezbollah crossed the border. Until then, I am of the opinion that Israeli's were IN Lebanon.

Bombing all of Lebanon for the action of Hezbollah is stirring up shit.


--------------------
Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:

Edited by alpharedecho (07/27/06 12:30 PM)

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Pat Buchanan: Israel right on Hezbollah, wrong on Lebanon [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #5905209 - 07/27/06 12:42 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Proof? Just what proof do you want? Or are you one of those guys who thinks a missile flew into the Pentagon on 9/11.

And no, bombing all of Lebanon (which is not happening) in response to an invasion by Lebanese citizen criminals (who are not being prosecuted by the Lebanese themselves) is not "stirring up shit". The attacks by Hezbollah were completely unacceptable. Either the Lebanese move to stop them or Israel will. And they have every reason to consider the Lebanese Gov't complicit, as well as the UN, both of which stood by while Hez prepared their attack, in direct contradiction to their own mandates and promises.
No, Israel is "stirring up shit" (in your mind) merely trying to exist

The Lebanese will either govern their country or Israel will.


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OfflineRosettaStoned
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Re: Pat Buchanan: Israel right on Hezbollah, wrong on Lebanon [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5905218 - 07/27/06 12:45 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Is there any proof that the soldiers were captured inside isreal? No, I don't think there is. So what zappa is doing here is making an assumption. As far as I have seen each side is claiming it happened in their country. Who is right?


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"Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa

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InvisibleHank, FTW
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Re: Pat Buchanan: Israel right on Hezbollah, wrong on Lebanon [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5905257 - 07/27/06 12:58 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Proof? Just what proof do you want? Or are you one of those guys who thinks a missile flew into the Pentagon on 9/11.

And no, bombing all of Lebanon (which is not happening) in response to an invasion by Lebanese citizen criminals (who are not being prosecuted by the Lebanese themselves) is not "stirring up shit". The attacks by Hezbollah were completely unacceptable. Either the Lebanese move to stop them or Israel will. And they have every reason to consider the Lebanese Gov't complicit, as well as the UN, both of which stood by while Hez prepared their attack, in direct contradiction to their own mandates and promises.
No, Israel is "stirring up shit" (in your mind) merely trying to exist

The Lebanese will either govern their country or Israel will.




Israel is just trying to exist eh? Do you actually believe the stuff you type? Trying to exist does not mean illegally occupying your neighbors.

Read that article that was just posted about the media bias, cause I think you have been brainwashed.


--------------------
Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:

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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: Pat Buchanan: Israel right on Hezbollah, wrong on Lebanon [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5905335 - 07/27/06 01:23 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:

Israel does not "stir up shit".  It just wants to be.  Hezbollah crossing the border and attacking somehow amounts to "Israel stirring up shit?"  Puhleeze.




Israel is innocent and does not have blood on its hands? Are you serious? :lol: Maybe check out these articles:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...rue#Post5887576

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Pat Buchanan: Israel right on Hezbollah, wrong on Lebanon [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #5905431 - 07/27/06 01:51 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

alpharedecho said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Proof? Just what proof do you want? Or are you one of those guys who thinks a missile flew into the Pentagon on 9/11.

And no, bombing all of Lebanon (which is not happening) in response to an invasion by Lebanese citizen criminals (who are not being prosecuted by the Lebanese themselves) is not "stirring up shit". The attacks by Hezbollah were completely unacceptable. Either the Lebanese move to stop them or Israel will. And they have every reason to consider the Lebanese Gov't complicit, as well as the UN, both of which stood by while Hez prepared their attack, in direct contradiction to their own mandates and promises.
No, Israel is "stirring up shit" (in your mind) merely trying to exist

The Lebanese will either govern their country or Israel will.




Israel is just trying to exist eh? Do you actually believe the stuff you type? Trying to exist does not mean illegally occupying your neighbors.

Read that article that was just posted about the media bias, cause I think you have been brainwashed.




This "illegally occupying your neighbors" shit is total crap. They were under attack and WON THAT WAR. Now they have given most of the territory back. But that is not what their enemies want. They want everything, just like they always have. If the fuckers would just let Israel have it's oil-less sliver in peace there would be no problem. But they won't. They constantly load the borders with weapons and thugs to attack and drive the Jew into the sea.

You and bio can take that nazi bullshit from the Chomskyite asshole Herman and peddle it in Riyadh and Teheran.

My question to you is this:

Does Israel have the right to exist within it's pre-'67 borders (in your opinion, because no one here is important enough to really decide)? This is a straight out yes or no question. You can elaborate all you want but you have to answer this one yes or no. Do they have a right to exist at all?

And stop with the fucking brainwashed crap. No you are. No you are. No you are. It's stupid and disrespectful to assume that anyone who disagrees with you is brainwashed. Stupid is better. I have been around too long and read too much and seen too much to be brainwashed by anyone.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Pat Buchanan: Israel right on Hezbollah, wrong on Lebanon [Re: RosettaStoned]
    #5905437 - 07/27/06 01:53 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

RosettaStoned said:
Is there any proof that the soldiers were captured inside isreal? No, I don't think there is. So what zappa is doing here is making an assumption. As far as I have seen each side is claiming it happened in their country. Who is right?




What proof do you require, oh guru of veracity? Aren't you one of the "9/11 attack by the US government" gang?

S&P is probably the best place to contemplate whether there really is a navel in the orange or if it is merely a manifestation of the godhead in a fruit. I'm just saying.


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Edited by zappaisgod (07/27/06 01:56 PM)

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Pat Buchanan: Israel right on Hezbollah, wrong on Lebanon [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5905560 - 07/27/06 02:33 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I don't think it is fair to ridicule him for not whole-heartedly believing the official story put forth by the Israeli government. I'm honestly on the fence, myself. Until I see some evidence one way or the other, I'm not going to trust either of the two groups' words.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Pat Buchanan: Israel right on Hezbollah, wrong on Lebanon [Re: Redstorm]
    #5905566 - 07/27/06 02:34 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

What group has said they weren't taken from Israel?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Pat Buchanan: Israel right on Hezbollah, wrong on Lebanon [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5905576 - 07/27/06 02:36 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

And I do believe he is one of the 9/11 conspiracists.


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InvisibleHank, FTW
Looking for the Answer

Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 3,912
Re: Pat Buchanan: Israel right on Hezbollah, wrong on Lebanon [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5905605 - 07/27/06 02:43 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
And I do believe he is one of the 9/11 conspiracists.




9/11 is not a conspiracy theory, way to much evidence to be labelled that anymore.


--------------------
Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Pat Buchanan: Israel right on Hezbollah, wrong on Lebanon [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5905606 - 07/27/06 02:43 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I know it's a shitty site, but it has some interesting information:

http://www.antiwar.com/frank/?articleid=9401

It says who stated that they were kidnapped in Lebanon.

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InvisibleHank, FTW
Looking for the Answer

Registered: 05/04/06
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Re: Pat Buchanan: Israel right on Hezbollah, wrong on Lebanon [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5905624 - 07/27/06 02:47 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

alpharedecho said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Proof? Just what proof do you want? Or are you one of those guys who thinks a missile flew into the Pentagon on 9/11.

And no, bombing all of Lebanon (which is not happening) in response to an invasion by Lebanese citizen criminals (who are not being prosecuted by the Lebanese themselves) is not "stirring up shit". The attacks by Hezbollah were completely unacceptable. Either the Lebanese move to stop them or Israel will. And they have every reason to consider the Lebanese Gov't complicit, as well as the UN, both of which stood by while Hez prepared their attack, in direct contradiction to their own mandates and promises.
No, Israel is "stirring up shit" (in your mind) merely trying to exist

The Lebanese will either govern their country or Israel will.




Israel is just trying to exist eh? Do you actually believe the stuff you type? Trying to exist does not mean illegally occupying your neighbors.

Read that article that was just posted about the media bias, cause I think you have been brainwashed.




This "illegally occupying your neighbors" shit is total crap. They were under attack and WON THAT WAR. Now they have given most of the territory back. But that is not what their enemies want. They want everything, just like they always have. If the fuckers would just let Israel have it's oil-less sliver in peace there would be no problem. But they won't. They constantly load the borders with weapons and thugs to attack and drive the Jew into the sea.

You and bio can take that nazi bullshit from the Chomskyite asshole Herman and peddle it in Riyadh and Teheran.

My question to you is this:

Does Israel have the right to exist within it's pre-'67 borders (in your opinion, because no one here is important enough to really decide)? This is a straight out yes or no question. You can elaborate all you want but you have to answer this one yes or no. Do they have a right to exist at all?

And stop with the fucking brainwashed crap. No you are. No you are. No you are. It's stupid and disrespectful to assume that anyone who disagrees with you is brainwashed. Stupid is better. I have been around too long and read too much and seen too much to be brainwashed by anyone.




Yes, Israel has a right to exist. Of course, its just the where thing that gets me. It would be nice if they could have Israel, but Arabs and Jews can't seem to get along, so this seems like a stupid place to have them. Its either move on tiny country, or move the entire Arab world. America is so supportive, they should just give a State to be the new Israel.

If Israel stays where it is, it will be swallowed by the Arab world with in 50 years, IMO. No matter how tough they are, no matter how superior the technology. The numbers don't lie.


--------------------
Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Pat Buchanan: Israel right on Hezbollah, wrong on Lebanon [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #5905853 - 07/27/06 03:51 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

alpharedecho said:
[qu
Yes, Israel has a right to exist. Of course, its just the where thing that gets me. It would be nice if they could have Israel, but Arabs and Jews can't seem to get along, so this seems like a stupid place to have them. Its either move on tiny country, or move the entire Arab world. America is so supportive, they should just give a State to be the new Israel.

If Israel stays where it is, it will be swallowed by the Arab world with in 50 years, IMO. No matter how tough they are, no matter how superior the technology. The numbers don't lie.




I'd be happy to give them Long Island. But they don't want it. And it is not what was granted to them 60 years ago. As to the Arab residents of Israel we can look to this;
"The Arabs who remained inside post-1948 Israel became citizens of the Jewish state. They had voting rights equal to the state's Jewish community, and according to Israel's Declaration of Independence were guaranteed social and political equality. "
http://countrystudies.us/israel/23.htm

Once again, this was granted to them by an international agency following the two great world wars. Other nations created out of whole cloth include, but are not limited to, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Jordan.

The Jews and the non-traitor Palestinians have been granted this territory by the only internationally recognized (somewhat) governing body. The Palestinians who find themselves refugees are descendants of Israeli citizens who chose to flee rather than fight in the '40s. And what the fuck do refugees think they are doing having zillions of children they can't support?

They can't seem to get along? If the Jews were left alone on their tiny sliver they wouldn't bother anybody. The Muslims, on the other hand, can't seem to get along with anyone. Anywhere. Ever. No, I don't think it's a good idea to cave in to these scumbags. Anywhere. Ever.


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Pat Buchanan: Israel right on Hezbollah, wrong on Lebanon [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5905874 - 07/27/06 04:00 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

To start with, to your earlier question, my answer is no. I do NOT think Israel has a right to exist in the boundaries it inhabits now. You cannot displace one group of people from their ancestral homes just so another group of people can have a place to call their own. Any way you parse it, this is stealing.

Let me just say Zappa, that I find you fall-back reliance on the UN mandate hilarious. Havent you said constantly before that UN is just a sham, that the US shouldnt listen to them, that they have no right to tell us what to do in Iraq, etc?

And the Arabs inside Israel today are NOT full citizens. To say they are is preposterous. They pay the same taxes, but their children are not allowed to go to the same schools. They may not hold certain jobs. They face discrimination in jobs and housing. The situation is no different from the American South of the 1950's and 60's. The Jews and Israeli Arabs may be living inside the same country, but they are NOT living under the same set of rules.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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