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InvisibleJackTackle
pinningmycologist

Registered: 09/18/05
Posts: 282
Loc: behind you
doctor patient confidentiality
    #5903685 - 07/26/06 11:26 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

i have a friend who was recently put on probation for getting caught with a small amount of pot

one condition of his probation was that he had to be assessed by a counselor to determine if he should undergo counseling

during his screening he made the mistake of revealing that he had smoked pot once while on probation

now before the meeting the doctor told him that everything said was confidential

my friend is scared that it's going to get back to his probation officer and that he'll get a violation and a month in jail.
i'm trying to convince him that the counselor can't reveal any details to the PO and that he is protected

what do you guys think? any experience or thoughts to share?


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InvisibleSuperD
Cacti junky
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Registered: 10/05/03
Posts: 6,648
Loc: The bridgesii bridge
Re: doctor patient confidentiality [Re: JackTackle]
    #5903857 - 07/26/06 11:57 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

even if by some small chance the word did get back to his PO that he smoked pot, i'm certain they would have to prove it beyond the counselor's words. his PO would more than likely give him a drug test the next time he sees him/her so make sure he stays clean for safety's sake.


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Manoa said:
I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. :lol:

Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), :pm: me if you have any for trade

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InvisibleJackTackle
pinningmycologist

Registered: 09/18/05
Posts: 282
Loc: behind you
Re: doctor patient confidentiality [Re: SuperD]
    #5904040 - 07/27/06 12:44 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

the counselor gave him a test
he said he was "just barely" positive for pot

that still doesn't give the couselor the right to share with his PO does it?

say, worst case scenario, the doctor can prove he has smoked pot...
doctor-patient confidentiality still applies to the probation officer right?


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OfflineSchwip
Never sleeps.
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Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 3,937
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Re: doctor patient confidentiality [Re: JackTackle]
    #5904207 - 07/27/06 02:05 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Tell your friend to NOT tell court appointed doctors or counselors ANYTHING.

Play the role of the innocent.

Drugs? Nah it was a foolish little bit of experimenting that got me caught.

But, since its too late for that. All you can do is see what happens.


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" If the sky were to suddenly open up there would be no law. There would be no rule. There would only be you and your memories... the choices you've made, and the people you've touched. If this world were to end there would only be you and him and no-one else. "

..............

"MAN! You know there aint no such thing as left over crack!"


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InvisiblePapaverS
Madmin Emeritus?

Registered: 06/01/02
Posts: 26,880
Loc: Radio Free Tibet!
Re: doctor patient confidentiality [Re: Schwip]
    #5904333 - 07/27/06 03:15 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Schwip said:
Tell your friend to NOT tell court appointed doctors or counselors ANYTHING.

Play the role of the innocent.

Drugs? Nah it was a foolish little bit of experimenting that got me caught.




Best advice ever!

Never tell any medical professional anything, and this includes your own personal physician. Never tell them anything that even remotely seems illegal, or that might somehow bring you legal troubles in the future.

The world we live in now is a very different place, and we're at war; a war on drugs. Which, I guess is really a war against us -- as a nation we are at war with ourselves -- and as with any war, citizens' rights are being suspended, and legal shortcuts are being taken, all in the name of "justice."

The problem is, that things you say to a doctor, nurse, or emt, can be casually written down and put in your chart (the medical equivalent of your permanent record), and nowadays with bigger computers and badder networks, this shit never goes away.

We all have this thing that follows us around nowadays; a sort of information-age doppelganger. I call it a "data cloud," and I like to visualize it as this little dark storm cloud, with the occasional lighting flash, that follows each of us around in our lives, and it's full of amazing stuff; stuff that's true, and stuff that's not true; things you don't even remember. And this thing follows each of us around, constantly growing in size and menace, and it's there for the use of the the powers-that-be any time they want.

The medical people may be wholly interested in saving your life, or otherwise helping you, but once that shit gets written down, it's there forever, it can be subpoenaed, or otherwise collected, and somehow used against you in the future, and it's a situation that's only getting worse.

It sounds like I'm being an alarmist and exaggerating, and I probably am, but I had a small legal problem a while ago (a drug charge), and I was surprised at what they knew from my medical records, and were prepared to use against me. It varies from state to state, and county to county, and I was in the worst county in one of the worst states, but still, you never know what will happen to you, or how things will change.

I would suggest, from my own experiences, to view any medical person (or other data collecting agency) with well-deserved fear and a deep suspicion.


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Registered: 04/27/01
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Re: doctor patient confidentiality [Re: Papaver]
    #5904360 - 07/27/06 03:43 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Never tell any medical professional anything, and this includes your own personal physician. Never tell them anything that even remotely seems illegal, or that might somehow bring you legal troubles in the future.




I disagree, at least in the US. As always, there are rules to follow:

You must establish a doctor-patient relationship in order to be protected. This requires that you voluntarily seek advice or treatment from the doctor, and that you have an expectation that the communication will be held in confidence.

Doctor visits at the request of a 3rd party, such as a court order or insurance physical, are NOT protected. Speaking to a doctor "outside of the office", such as at a party or through email is also not protected.


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: doctor patient confidentiality [Re: Seuss]
    #5904483 - 07/27/06 06:25 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Very true. Counselors aren't bound by confidentiality in the least if a 3rd party is involved in any way. I would not be surprised in the least if the counselor went straight to the PO. If it's court mandated then they expect a report from the counselor. Do you think that's not going to be in there? Of course it is.


-FF

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InvisibleJackTackle
pinningmycologist

Registered: 09/18/05
Posts: 282
Loc: behind you
Re: doctor patient confidentiality [Re: Seuss]
    #5904744 - 07/27/06 09:36 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
You must establish a doctor-patient relationship in order to be protected. This requires that you voluntarily seek advice or treatment from the doctor, and that you have an expectation that the communication will be held in confidence.

Doctor visits at the request of a 3rd party, such as a court order or insurance physical, are NOT protected. Speaking to a doctor "outside if the office", such as at a party or through email is also not protected.




do you have a source for this information?

i'm pretty sure that doctor-patient privelege exists even if you are sent to a mental hospital. and from what i've read the 3rd party clause only applies to people in the room at the time the information was disclosed. AND even the confidentiality in that situation has SOME protection depending on what state you live in

i think the only way information can be revealed is with a warrant

i've been reading this and it makes me think that he would still be protected
http://www.health.org/govpubs/bkd250/26j.aspx


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
Re: doctor patient confidentiality [Re: JackTackle]
    #5904800 - 07/27/06 10:02 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

> do you have a source for this information?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor-patient_privilege

Quote:

In the United States, the extent of the privilege varies depending on the law of the applicable state. For example, in Texas there is only a limited physician-patient privilege in criminal proceedings, and the privilege is limited in civil cases as well. See generally Texas Occupations Code section 159.003 and Texas Rules of Evidence, Rule 509(b).




http://law.enotes.com/everyday-law-encyclopedia/doctor-patient-confidentiality

Quote:

Key Points

* There is no duty of confidentiality owed unless a bona-fide doctor-patient relationship exists or existed
* The scope of the duty of doctor-patient confidentiality, as well as the existence of a doctor-patient legal privilege, varies from state to state. No federal law governs doctor-patient confidentiality or privilege
* Generally, what is confidential is information that is learned or gained by a doctor, during or as a result of the doctor's communications with examination of you, or medical assessment of the patient
* The duty of confidentiality continues even after the patient stops seeing or being treated by the doctor
* The duty of confidentiality is not absolute. Doctors may divulge or disclose personal information, against the patient's will, under very limited circumstances

The Doctor-Patient Relationship

There must be a bona fide "doctor-patient relationship" between individuals and a physician before any duty of confidentiality is created. Generally speaking, individuals must voluntarily seek advice or treatment from the doctor, and have an expectation that the communication will be held in confidence. This expectation of confidentiality does not need to be expressed. It is implied from the circumstances.

If individuals meet a doctor at a party, and in the course of "small-talk"conversation, they ask the doctor for an opinion regarding a medical question that relates to them, the doctor's advice would most likely not be considered confidential, nor would the doctor be considered "the individuals doctor." Likewise, if individuals send an e-mail to an "Ask the Doctor" website on the Internet, the communication would not be considered confidential, nor would the person who responded to the e-mail be considered he sender's doctor. No doctor-patient relationship was established, and no duty is owed.

If individuals are examined by a physician at the request of a third party (such as an insurance company or their employer), no matter how thorough or extensive the examination, or how friendly the doctor, there is generally no physician-patient relationship and no duty of confidentiality is owed to the patients. This is because they did not seek the physician's advice or treatment, and the relationship is at "arm's-length."

In many states, the privilege is limited to professional relationships between licensed doctors of medicine and their patients. Other states extend the privilege to chiropractors, psychologists, therapists, etc.

Doctor-Patient Privilege

Once a bona-fide doctor-patient relationship is established, the duty of confidentiality"attaches," and in many states, the doctor can invoke a legal privilege, on the patient's behalf, when asked to disclose or divulge information the doctor may have or know about the patient.

Federal Rule of Evidence (FRE) 501 provides that any permissible privilege "shall be governed by the principles of common law" as interpreted by federal courts. However, in civil actions governed by state law, the privilege of a witness is also determined by the laws of that state. Most states recognize some form of doctor-patient privilege by express law (STATUTE), but over time, there have been many exceptions that have chipped away the use or scope of the privilege.

In recent years, many courts have held that doctors also owe duties to protect non-patients who may be harmed by patients. For example, without a patient's permission or knowledge, doctors may warn others or the police if the patient is mentally unstable, potentially violent, or has threatened a specific person. In some states, the duty to report or warn others "trumps" the right to confidentiality or privileged communication with a doctor. Courts will decide these matters by balancing the sanctity of the confidentiality against the foreseeability of harm to a third party.




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InvisibleJackTackle
pinningmycologist

Registered: 09/18/05
Posts: 282
Loc: behind you
Re: doctor patient confidentiality [Re: Seuss]
    #5904872 - 07/27/06 10:28 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

thank you for that source

i guess we'll just have to hope that since the doctor said "anything you tell me is in confidence" that he actually meant it and isn't an asshole


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OfflineDancingEchoes
Stranger

Registered: 07/15/06
Posts: 19
Last seen: 17 years, 9 months
Re: doctor patient confidentiality [Re: Seuss]
    #5904875 - 07/27/06 10:29 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I remember one time back in high school. I was sent to the on campus psychiatrist because I was caught a few times "drunk" on campus. It was only like two or three beers during lunch, I wasn't drunk. but they made me go anyways. she told me its all confidential and that she wont repeat anything i tell her to anybody else. one day she asked me to tell her what I had done over the weekend. so I went about telling her and trying to remember to exclude anything illegal I did. unfortunately i accidentally blurted out that I had smoked a few bowls with a friend before a movie.... Later that day when i got home my room had been robed of all my bud,papers,blunts,bowls, and my bong.
when my mom got home from shopping she just started yelling. during her ranting she blurted out that the school psychiatrist was the one that told her I was smoking bud.

so yeah... don't trust anybody. especially psychiatrist, they think drug use is a bad thing.

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Invisibleshithead
Stranger
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Registered: 07/18/06
Posts: 191
Re: doctor patient confidentiality [Re: JackTackle]
    #5905869 - 07/27/06 03:59 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I tell my Doctor the truth about things. But that would be the only person. I don't figure its anyone else's business. I tell the doc,
because I want the best care, for the money, and I,m not really
after any heavy drugs from him anyway.
I lie like a mofo to my Dentist,I want his good stuff. :cool:


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I just have names.
shit has been way busy, names have been flying out the door. No time for special name shit.

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: doctor patient confidentiality [Re: JackTackle]
    #5906647 - 07/27/06 08:07 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

JackTackle said:
the counselor gave him a test
he said he was "just barely" positive for pot





ibuprofen can show a 'mild' positive for pot

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