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lonestar2004
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Karl Marx's Anti-Semitism
#5902857 - 07/26/06 08:10 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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In 1843, Karl Marx's first essay of note was produced:
"On The Question of the Jews".
http://www.marx.org/archive/marx/works/1844/jewish-question/index.htm
"Let us not seek the secret of the Jew in his religion, but let us seek the secret of the religion in the real Jew. What is the profane basis of Judaism? Practical need, self-interest. What is the worldly cult of the Jew? Huckstering. What is his worldly god? Money.
Very well: then in emancipating itself from huckstering and money, and thus from real and practical Judaism, our age would emancipate itself.
An organization of society which would abolish the preconditions and thus the very possibility of huckstering, would make the Jew impossible. His religious consciousness would evaporate like some insipid vapour in the real, life-giving air of society . . .
We discern in Judaism, therefore, a universal antisocial element of the present time, whose historical development, zealously aided in its harmful aspects by the Jews, has now attained its culminating point, a point at which it must necessarily begin to disintegrate.
In the final analysis, the emancipation of the Jews is the emancipation of mankind from Judaism."

Has anyone read this?
Any Karl Marx experts?
Five years later he produced the Communist Manifesto and IMO all he did was replace the word Jew with capitalist. (communist manifesto)
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
Edited by lonestar2004 (07/26/06 08:21 PM)
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Basilides
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Re: Karl Marx's Anti-Semitism [Re: lonestar2004]
#5902955 - 07/26/06 08:32 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
IMO all he did was replace the word Jew with capitalist.
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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Vvellum
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Re: Karl Marx's Anti-Semitism [Re: lonestar2004]
#5904115 - 07/27/06 01:17 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Karl Marx and Judaism
Marx was raised in an atheist family, though his father "officially" converted to Lutheranism when Marx was a child in order to escape anti-Semitism; Marx's Jewish family lineage included rabbinical scholars. The two, atheism and messianic Judaism, formed a pair of dialectical contradictions which Marx synthesized into his own brand of liberation/negative theology.
Marx himself has been accused of being an anti-Semite, though most critical scholars today tend to reject this argument.1 In On the Jewish Question, he wrote: "What is the worldly cult of the Jew? Huckstering. What is his worldly God? Money."; and continues, "[t]he social emancipation of the Jew is the emancipation of society from Judaism." [2] Those who accuse Marx of anti-Semitism often cite these passages, but others feel this distorts Marx's work, lifting quotes out of context. In particular, the second passage cannot be understood if one doesn't take into account that Judaism here stands, in fact, for capitalism. As Marx put it, "... money has become a world power and the practical Jewish spirit has become the practical spirit of the Christian nations. The Jews have emancipated themselves insofar as the Christians have become Jews".
Thus, while he did consider the Jews to be a people with a special tradition in capitalist activities, and while he did regard capitalism as an "anti-social element of the present time [author's italics]", he did not believe that the Jews themselves constituted an evil.
Marx linked the overrepresentative role played by Jews in finance and banking not to any inherent Jewish trait, but rather to an acculturation brought about by hundreds of years of medieval laws, which placed restrictions on the type of labor Jews were permitted to engage in. He expresses a tone of near-sarcastic admiration for Jews who succeeded under capitalism, despite (and arguably, because of) the hindrances they endured from anti-Semitic laws and attitudes.
With a measure of irony, Marx goes on to link the emancipation of Jews to a general emancipation from capitalism. Still, his focus was not on the Jewish religion, but rather on the worldly Jews' economic legacy and its material manifestations as directly related to a division of labor imposed on Jews since medieval times; that is, as a direct product of capitalist and precapitalist development. He did claim that the actual religion was a particularly clear expression of the spirit of capitalism, but he didn't regard it as significantly inferior to the "Christian egoism of heavenly bliss". The latter was, in his opinion, only a kind of "spiritualistic" projection of Judaism and precisely the religion that had made the final triumph of that same capitalist spirit possible.
Many Zionist socialist Jews agreed with Marx, and expanding on his ideas, viewed the emancipation and retention of the identity of Jews as inexorably tied to a reversal of their economic history. These Zionist socialists, particularly associated with, but not confined to, the Kibbutz movement, went on to define and practise physical (and especially agrarian) labor, which for centuries had been denied to Jews, as a necessary form of 'purification' from their past economic legacy, which, like Marx, they viewed negatively. While most of these Zionist socialist Jews were pronouncedly secular (even anti-clerical), unlike Marx they retained a strong sense of Jewish identity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Jewish_Question
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.


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Re: Karl Marx's Anti-Semitism [Re: Vvellum]
#5904922 - 07/27/06 10:45 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Honestly this is the first time Ive read any Karl Marx. After reading it I have a question.
Is Marxism/Socialism just another version of Jewish Messianism/Kibbutz????
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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Silversoul
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Re: Karl Marx's Anti-Semitism [Re: lonestar2004]
#5905032 - 07/27/06 11:25 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
lonestar2004 said: Is Marxism/Socialism just another version of Jewish Messianism/Kibbutz????
I wouldn't go that far, but I do have to admit that there is something messianic about Marx's belief that communism is inevitable. Most Marxists, however, would outright deny any comparison of their ideology to "the opiate of the masses" that is religion.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Karl Marx's Anti-Semitism [Re: lonestar2004]
#5905059 - 07/27/06 11:35 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
lonestar2004 said: Honestly this is the first time Ive read any Karl Marx. After reading it I have a question.
Is Marxism/Socialism just another version of Jewish Messianism/Kibbutz????
You wouldn't want to elaborate on this for us, would you?
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SirTripAlot
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Re: Karl Marx's Anti-Semitism [Re: zappaisgod]
#5905656 - 07/27/06 02:56 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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I look at Marx like he was critiquing capitalism, with his own solution.
In my opinion his solution eats shit.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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zappaisgod
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Re: Karl Marx's Anti-Semitism [Re: SirTripAlot]
#5905771 - 07/27/06 03:26 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Well, it seems to actually have played out that way in the real world lab. He might have pulled it off in a jungle like Jim Jones......oh wait a minute.....that didn't work out so well either. Oh well, there's always that Carribean jewel Cuba. What? You don't say!!!!!!! Sum bitch, well, I guess it just aint so good nowhere. Oh say can you see North Korea from space What might've been a bright spot Is the only black hole....
That's all i have in me tonight
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Vvellum
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Re: Karl Marx's Anti-Semitism [Re: SirTripAlot]
#5907050 - 07/27/06 09:49 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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actually, if you'd read marx, he never really offered much of a solution to capitalism. he never set forth a "map" of what socialism should be or put forth any socialist theories other than vague outlines of the historical coming of the end of capitalism and the workers' role in that age. Socialist theories based on Marx came later with his interpreters - Lenin and Mao and Stalin and Trotksy, etc etc.
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mack_tasticlies
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Re: Karl Marx's Anti-Semitism [Re: Vvellum]
#5908104 - 07/28/06 06:04 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
bi0 said: actually, if you'd read marx, he never really offered much of a solution to capitalism. he never set forth a "map" of what socialism should be or put forth any socialist theories other than vague outlines of the historical coming of the end of capitalism and the workers' role in that age. Socialist theories based on Marx came later with his interpreters - Lenin and Mao and Stalin and Trotksy, etc etc.
That is not entirely true, he in effect declared open war on the bourgeoisie and made some specific declarations regarding rights to property, education and revenues.
His ideologies were however without any regard for the nature of the Human, He was a robot with no thought for the manifests of spirit. He would have everyone else be one too.
He made repeated attempts to discredit the owners with liable against their familial systems and religiosity. He slandered organized religion and then went on to later implicate the pros of his socio religious ideas relative to God.
He also accused the capitalists of philandering, as if a poor laborer has never ever thought to fuck his best friend's wife. He was a hypocrite and inconsistent.
What a crock of stewing filth was the whole affair known as Karl Marx.
His arguments were weak. He was weak.
IMHO
Edited by mack_tasticlies (07/28/06 08:03 AM)
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Vvellum
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your opinions of marx and socialism aside, marx only really critiqued capitalism. he never put forth an outline of what socialism should be other than vague ideas. that was done by engels and the others I mentioned.
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