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Offlinemorphius2661
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Eros and the Pineal (Natural DMT Production)
    #5891293 - 07/23/06 04:13 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

http://www.serendipity.li/dmt/eros.html

I just read that after seeing it while browsing around on the B. Alvarius thread and it's something that I may consider trying.

In a nutshell it says that if one were to eat a candy bar, 1-tryptophan supplements, and a short term MAOI then the brain will produce 5-MeO-DMT. At least thats what I got out of reading all of it.

Has anyone tried this before? Does it make sense to anyone who may know more about the brain and serotonin than me? It says 1-tryptophan is available OTC so I may consider giving this a shot and see what happens. It says a 25-50mg dose of harmine or harmaline is suitable for a short term MAOI. What is harmine and harmaline? Is it available OTC or have another name or something?

Can anyone shed any light on this subject?


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InvisibleaNeway2sayHooray
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Re: Eros and the Pineal (Natural DMT Production) [Re: morphius2661]
    #5891427 - 07/23/06 04:48 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

This is very interesting.

To answer your question,Harmine and harmaline are the naturaly occuring MAO inhibitors found in the peganum harmala plant(syrian rue) and also a few other plants.


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Offlinepassitbobbie
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Re: Eros and the Pineal (Natural DMT Production) [Re: morphius2661]
    #5891527 - 07/23/06 05:19 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I can't shed any light on the subject however you can find MAOI in syrian rue (get this pre-extracted) and passionflower (weaker but can be found at those herbal supplement shops and whole foods) extracted or in tea. You can also get synthetic prescription MAOIs but not OTC.

But dude I have no idea this sounds too crazy to be true.

Munch away though man you never now what might happen


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Offlinemorphius2661
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Re: Eros and the Pineal (Natural DMT Production) [Re: passitbobbie]
    #5891676 - 07/23/06 06:01 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah well it's on erowid so I'm assuming it's pretty credible. But who knows if the effects would be very strong, maybe just some threshold effects? In either case it would be interesting. Does anyone know what name a 1-tryptophan suppliment may be marketed as or called?


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InvisibleaNeway2sayHooray
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Re: Eros and the Pineal (Natural DMT Production) [Re: morphius2661]
    #5891701 - 07/23/06 06:05 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

No,But there are tons of 5-hydroxy tryptophan companies.I imagine this would skip a step in the process?

5-HTP:heart:


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Invisible905
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Re: Eros and the Pineal (Natural DMT Production) [Re: morphius2661]
    #5891719 - 07/23/06 06:09 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

L-tryptophan.
Just my opinion, but I think you are going where no man has gone before.
I think you are in over your head, noone in their right mind is going to
recommend you do it.

You don't know it is L-tryptophan not 1-tryptophan.
You don't know what harmine and harmaline is.

But I know nothing about brain chemistry, but have seen this theory before.

Not trying to insult you, I hope this comes across right.


Edited by 905 (07/23/06 06:20 PM)


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OfflinePowerTrip
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Re: Eros and the Pineal (Natural DMT Production) [Re: morphius2661]
    #5891747 - 07/23/06 06:16 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I believe I saw this written somewhere and a disclaimer stating that you shouldn't try it. I believe an MAOI in combination with an HTP supplement would result in a dangerous level of serotonin in the brain. There are very strict rules about what you can consume while using an maoi, and I believe chocolate is not allowed.


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Offlinemorphius2661
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Re: Eros and the Pineal (Natural DMT Production) [Re: PowerTrip]
    #5891805 - 07/23/06 06:33 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah well now that I look at it it is an L, I thought it was an L at first but then thought it looked like a 1 (which didnt make sense to me, but I just thought thats what it is, as I said I know nothing about brain chemistry or chemistry really in general besides what i've seen on here) but now i can see it's a lower case l...they look similar, lol. In any case, I was more looking to see if anyone has ever done it before. What would happen with too much serotonin? If it's the short term MAOI wouldnt it just be effected for like 3 hours or so?

Even if I did decide to try (Which i wont now) I certainly wouldnt take anything more than a little of anything. But at least I learned something. I read that no one really knows the purpose of the pineal gland and some believe that it's used to aid in the 'trancending to the afterlife' Anyone have any insight to this?

And no offense taken 905. I'd rather you said what you thought straight up.


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Invisible905
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Re: Eros and the Pineal (Natural DMT Production) [Re: morphius2661]
    #5891834 - 07/23/06 06:41 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

When I do I get ripped a new asshole.


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Offlinemorphius2661
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Re: Eros and the Pineal (Natural DMT Production) [Re: 905]
    #5891902 - 07/23/06 06:59 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Yea well thats how most people are. So fuck them. heh


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Offlinethe_psychonaut
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Re: Eros and the Pineal (Natural DMT Production) [Re: morphius2661]
    #5892328 - 07/23/06 08:42 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

the thought just came to me, that it is a possibilty that dmt could be produced after we die naturally in us, for the fact that it just may have an effect on something that may have eaten us back in prehistoric days (unlike how it has no effect orally on us.) maybey im just stoned but it sounds reasonable to me right now


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: Eros and the Pineal (Natural DMT Production) [Re: the_psychonaut]
    #5911060 - 07/29/06 02:51 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

what is the connection to the pineal gland? You realise there is no actual evidence that the pineal gland has anything to do with 5-MeO-DMT
T


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Offlineboobless
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Re: Eros and the Pineal (Natural DMT Production) [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #5911249 - 07/29/06 06:19 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I don't know that much about all this, i may have also read incorrectly also; but perhaps when we die or have an NDE and get that supposed DMT rush, maybe that's got something to do with the MAO shutting down and existing 1-tryptophans in the body converting?

Just ignorant speculation... Fascinating topic though.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Eros and the Pineal (Natural DMT Production) [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #5911304 - 07/29/06 07:17 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

what is the connection to the pineal gland? You realise there is no actual evidence that the pineal gland has anything to do with 5-MeO-DMT




Not just that, there seems to be evidence to the contrary, that its specifically not present.


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Offlinemorphius2661
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Re: Eros and the Pineal (Natural DMT Production) [Re: Asante]
    #5912243 - 07/29/06 02:36 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

From the site about the Pineal Gland:

Quote:


THE PINEAL

Located almost in the center of your brain is a small projection of tissue called the pineal gland. It is shaped like a tiny pine cone, roughly a quarter of an inch long, and weighs about a tenth of a gram. Despite its small size, the pineal gland contains enormous amounts of serotonin, a physiologically active biogenic amine and chemical neurotransmitter. But pineal cells are not neurons and do not use serotonin for neurotransmission. Instead, pineal serotonin functions as a substrate for the enzymatic production of other biologically active molecules.

Nevertheless, the pineal gland is intimately related to the broad network of neurons that do release serotonin as a chemical messenger, An estimated several thousand of these serotonergic neurons are in the human brain. Their cell bodies are located almost exclusively in the midbrain, the pons and the medula oblongata. Some of their axons descend to ennervate the gray matter of the spinal cord; others ascend to the brain and terminate in the thalamus, limbic forebrain, and hypothalamus. Related by a common biogenic amine, the pineal gland and the serotonergic neurons play an important role in the regulation of mood, behavior and consciousness.






I think it just has to do with when 1-tryptophan is taken there is an increased production or release of serotonin which i'm assuming would have to do with the pineal doing it...

Furthermore it says:

Quote:


ENDOGENOUS HALLUCINOGENS

A combination of l-tryptophan and a short-term MAO inhibitor creates a favorable condition for the formation of psychoactive tryptamines within the human pineal gland. Tryptophan loading produces a significant increase in brain tryptophan levels and a subsequent increase in serotonin levels. When its major inactivation pathway is blocked by MAO inhibition, serotonin becomes a substrate for other pineal enzymes. Two methyltransferase enzymes, HIOMT and INMT, are capable of converting excess serotonin into a number of psychoactive derivatives.

HIOMT, localized exclusively within the pineal gland, specifically catalyses the transfer of a methyl group to the oxygen located at the five position an the indole ring. In other words, HIOMT converts a 5-hydroxy-indole into a 5-methoxy-indole. This enzyme converts serotonin, 5-hydroxytryptamine, into a psychoactive compound called 5-methoxytryptamine. In turn, this compound becomes a substrate for INMT, another pineal methyltransferase enzyme.

INMT specifically catalyses the transfer of methyl groups (one at a time) to the amine nitrogen on an indole side chain. The resulting monomethyl intermediate, 5-methoxy-N-methyltryptamine, is also psychoactive, but it is quickly converted to the dimethyl derivative by INMT. The final molecule — endogenously produced in the human pineal gland — is 5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine, a relatively unknown but extremely potent hallucinogen.





So according to that then it can be produced in the pineal by manipulation ?

I dont know I just go off what I see in the article.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Eros and the Pineal (Natural DMT Production) [Re: morphius2661]
    #5912258 - 07/29/06 02:42 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

It might be possible that it can be produced by manipulations.

But will it make enough of it in a short enough time and will it reach the correct neurons to cause a psychedelic state?
No one knows, probably not.


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Offlinedubbyah
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Re: Eros and the Pineal (Natural DMT Production) [Re: Asante]
    #5912286 - 07/29/06 02:57 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

someone on lycaeum tried this and they said nothing happened besides them feeling sick


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Offlinetwiggedoubt
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Re: Eros and the Pineal (Natural DMT Production) [Re: dubbyah]
    #5912495 - 07/29/06 04:12 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I think the theory was started by Dr.Strassman he wrote DMT:The Spirt Molecule and thought that the pineal produced DMT. Its a good read, it can be found in many bookstores. It doesn't really have to do with 5-MeO-DMT, but it does have to do with the pineal producing DMT.


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Re: Eros and the Pineal (Natural DMT Production) [Re: twiggedoubt]
    #5912510 - 07/29/06 04:22 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I've read DMT The Spirit Molecule too, and boy was I disappointed with his chapter on the pineal gland.

The medical side of his DMT study he seems to have handled well, but his pineal theories are pure speculation, and when his examination of actual human pineal glands reveals no DMT he sweeps that fact under the rug and speculates on. I'm often willing to out on a limb, but then you at least have the limb, and I won't cal it science.

I was hoping to find a book that had good information that linked DMT with the Death Experience and the Pineal gland.

What I found was that it was all rubbish.

DMT in the pineal gland -- complete speculation, zero fact
DMT surge in fetus brain -- complete speculation, zero fact
DMT surge at biological death -- complete speculation, zero fact
DMT tests on human pineal glands -- not a single microgram found

The book is compelling because if the testing of DMT as part of proper research, but the entire pineal connection is a big bundle of huey :frown:


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Re: Eros and the Pineal (Natural DMT Production) [Re: Asante]
    #5912540 - 07/29/06 04:38 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

there still may be a relationship with pineal and serotonin and dmt
such that
dmt is known to be serotonergic (did I spell that right?) - a serotonin analogue or serotonin pathway stimulant, like lsd, mesc. and psilocybin; and pineal is a repository for serotonin.

The only hard evidence we have is low resolution and generalized being tha ssri effects are mood enhancing, and serotonergics are psychedelic.

DMT may just be one of the nice triggers for cranking up this system that is otherwise related to pineal gland via serotonin.


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Offlinetwiggedoubt
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Re: Eros and the Pineal (Natural DMT Production) [Re: redgreenvines]
    #5912855 - 07/29/06 06:46 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

It was all theories, and the most intresting part of the book was the actual studies. I couldn't care less about his theories, I was intrested in the accounts of the people that tried DMT. It was an intresting read either way.


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Invisibletruekimbo2
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Re: Eros and the Pineal (Natural DMT Production) [Re: twiggedoubt]
    #5912913 - 07/29/06 07:11 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

interesting. i knew strassman's theories were just that; theories.

does that also mean that dmt being found in the human body is a myth?


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OfflineMustNotBe
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Re: Eros and the Pineal (Natural DMT Production) [Re: truekimbo2]
    #5913005 - 07/29/06 07:40 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

You cannot drug test for DMT because it is always there :-p. So its there somewhere.


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Re: Eros and the Pineal (Natural DMT Production) [Re: twiggedoubt]
    #5914057 - 07/30/06 03:54 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

But he author openly admits that there is NO EVIDENCE that the pineal gland has anything to do with the production of DMT - infact as others have posted - it seems to have lower than body-average levels of natural-occuring tryptamines.
The author made some comments at the end of the book with some unproven contentions and then a bunch of people took these as gospel and all of a sudden people took it as gospel.
Ive just realised ive repeated wiccan's post! sorry mate, im glad you agree with me on how disappointing the Spirit Molecule was.


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