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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
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We Do Not Need This Many People
#5891255 - 07/23/06 04:04 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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We need to see a major population reduction in order for this planet to survive and our quality of life to continue. We do not need billions of people on this planet, and this planet cannot support billions of people on this planet. Work with bacteria cultures demonstrates that there is a population explosion just before the bacteria consumes all of its resources. What happens after that? 
If we start bringing meaning and purpose within ourselves, that meaning and purpose will not continue to be spread out agansit the thinnest margin possible. I see no point in amassing huge populations on this planet - what are we striving for with such effort?
We should exist in balance with our planet and its renewable resources. Who cares if we are not so technologically advanced that we can destroy stars that will collide with us? The last frontier is about to become completely owned by the government, who will be monitoring and tracking everything. Is such complexity necessary? Screw it! Where will you go to express a free thought without fear of retaliation? Where can we go to simply be?
/rant. 
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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spud
I'm so fly.

Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 44,410
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: fireworks_god]
#5891270 - 07/23/06 04:07 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Overpopulation Myths Is the earth becoming overpopulated? It is not a question of the human population outstripping resources, since food production continues to exceed population growth and non-renewable resources become more plentiful each year as new sources are found.
Even in sheer numbers, though, there is growing evidence that the world's population is heading toward stability.
* The growth rate of the world's population appears to have peaked around 1970, when the annual rate of growth was 2.09 percent.
* By 1980, annual population growth was down to 1.73 percent, and by 1990 to 1.7 percent.
* By 1995, the annual increase had slowed even more to 1.5 percent.
What is sometimes meant by overpopulation is overcrowding, or too great a population density. However, population density varies widely. Much of the world's land surface is empty, and many countries with dense populations have a higher standard of living than less crowded countries.
* In 1992, the population of Hong Kong City was approximately 247,501 per square mile, while in New York City it was 11,480 per square mile, and in Houston 7,512.
* If the entire population of the world were put into the land area of Texas, each person would have an area equal to the floor space of a typical U.S. home and the population density of Texas would be about the same as Paris, France.
* In 1988, China had a population of 409 people per square mile and gross domestic product per capita of $320, while Hong Kong, with a population density more than 450 times greater, had a per capita GDP of $8,260.
One reason people are crowded together in cities is because it makes possible many more exchanges and greater specialization of labor, thus increasing living standards.
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Quoiyaien
><<<<0>>>><


Registered: 06/08/04
Posts: 1,409
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: fireworks_god]
#5891334 - 07/23/06 04:23 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
fireworks_god said: Where will you go to express a free thought without fear of retaliation? Where can we go to simply be?
Uh... the mountains? That would be pretty fun 
Grow a big ass beard and build a house out of sticks. Or maybe, roll up patches of grass into bricks and make a house with those. That would be so cool
Quote:
Work with bacteria cultures demonstrates that there is a population explosion just before the bacteria consumes all of its resources. What happens after that?
We move on to another planet
Seriously though, I think we will eventually realize that the planet cant support us and we will adapt. If you look at other studies on population curves, you see that after the peak, there is a recession. After which, a stable balance is found. So I think that before we are able to live in harmony with our selves and our planet, there will be a great population loss due to some unforeseen cause.
I think first we have to realize that life has been around a long ass time before we came along. So obviously, there exists enough natural resources to maintain a stable eco-system.
Peace 
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: spud]
#5891336 - 07/23/06 04:24 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
spud said: Is the earth becoming overpopulated? It is not a question of the human population outstripping resources, since food production continues to exceed population growth and non-renewable resources become more plentiful each year as new sources are found.
Food production continues to exceed population growth because food production nowadays depends entirely upon oil. Non-renewable resources become more plentiful each year as new sources are found? Any substantiation for this? The outlook on oil production looks rather grim, and I am not aware of anything that can replace oil and its role as direct support for billions of lives - perhaps cannabis, but I don't see it being produced as such.
One also wonders that, if food production exceeds population growth, then we must be wasting a ton of food, right? I mean, I've noticed that not everyone is living in a cornucopia of dinner oppurtunities... our production of food exceeds population growth, we just don't distribute it to that population? 
It must be amazing, you know, that we keep finding more and more sources for non-renewable resources on this planet. Perhaps oil is infinite? I'm sorry, but it is necessary for you to substantiate this to some degree.
Quote:
Even in sheer numbers, though, there is growing evidence that the world's population is heading toward stability.
Great, we need it. Of course, then there is the glaring question of how this stable population of the world will continue to exist and prosper, even as we must make a radical shift in the way our civilization operates when we can no longer rely on oil as we have. It would seem to be an issue that we should be actively working on in this moment... planning ahead and forecasting... not preparing ourselves to fight for the remaining oil. Is this happening?
Quote:
What is sometimes meant by overpopulation is overcrowding, or too great a population density. However, population density varies widely. Much of the world's land surface is empty, and many countries with dense populations have a higher standard of living than less crowded countries.
Yes, much of the world's land surface is empty, and much of the world's land surface is not exactly paradise. The desert and the tundra cover much of the land surface on Earth and are empty, but I don't see anyone moving there anytime soon...
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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spud
I'm so fly.

Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 44,410
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: fireworks_god]
#5891347 - 07/23/06 04:27 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I was simply citing the National Center for Policy Analysis. They tend to know their shit
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: fireworks_god]
#5891359 - 07/23/06 04:31 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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We need to see a major population reduction in order for this planet to survive and our quality of life to continue
Good news! WWIII is right around the corner. All those nukes could be just what we need for a major population reduction.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
Edited by LunarEclipse (07/23/06 04:32 PM)
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: Quoiyaien]
#5891372 - 07/23/06 04:34 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Quoiyaien said: Seriously though, I think we will eventually realize that the planet cant support us and we will adapt. If you look at other studies on population curves, you see that after the peak, there is a recession. After which, a stable balance is found. So I think that before we are able to live in harmony with our selves and our planet, there will be a great population loss due to some unforeseen cause.
Precisely. The less amount of oil there is, the more expensive it is to extract, and the more demand there is for the remaining oil. In the meantime, civilization continues to require more and more oil in order to support itself. No doubt, if we are not aware of the necessity of completely restructuring our civilization, how it acts, and how it supports itself, there will great loss of life, as traditional means of supporting life that do not depend on oil will not be able to support life.
The fact that certain areas have denser populations will ensure more loss of population. The area itself is not supporting that dense population, the resources necessary to do so are transported in. Large scale food production has never occured without oil, it has always been dependant on machinery, which, to build, requires oil, and, to operate, requires oil, and even more chemical fertilizers and pesticides, which, you can surely bet, require oil. You cannot grow vegetables on concrete. 
Quote:
I think first we have to realize that life has been around a long ass time before we came along. So obviously, there exists enough natural resources to maintain a stable eco-system.
Certainly, and I am one to think that less people will be supported by these natural resources. Human life should be quality, not quantity. The fact that we have expanded this far to a pulse that does not consciously recognize exactly how limited this expansion can be in its present form is sobering, and it, quite possibly, will become incredibly sobering, if we do not take crucial, necessary steps to completely reconstruct our civilization.
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: spud]
#5891388 - 07/23/06 04:36 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
spud said: I was simply citing the National Center for Policy Analysis. They tend to know their shit
Then I am sure that they have cited their reasoning to proclaim that we have a plethora of available, non-renewable resources, or their insight into the notion that, while this population exists and it is more dense here and here, it is greatly possible that it is a temporary population supported by temporary resources. 
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: LunarEclipse]
#5891393 - 07/23/06 04:38 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
LunarEclipse said: Good news! WWIII is right around the corner. All those nukes could be just what we need for a major population reduction.
Quite possible, and one only wonders what the strategic deployment of forces by multiple countries and organizations in once central location could possibly be for. 
Oh, that's right, democracy and terrorism, silly me. 
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Quoiyaien
><<<<0>>>><


Registered: 06/08/04
Posts: 1,409
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: fireworks_god]
#5891405 - 07/23/06 04:41 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I wonder if the oil companies are working on a substitute? Either that, or they're holding out on hydrogen technology until all the oil dries up. I sure as hell hope that the people in charge arent total fucking jackasses in regards to the potentially problematic nature of this situation. 
Peace 
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spud
I'm so fly.

Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 44,410
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: fireworks_god]
#5891424 - 07/23/06 04:47 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
fireworks_god said:
Quote:
spud said: I was simply citing the National Center for Policy Analysis. They tend to know their shit
Then I am sure that they have cited their reasoning to proclaim that we have a plethora of available, non-renewable resources, or their insight into the notion that, while this population exists and it is more dense here and here, it is greatly possible that it is a temporary population supported by temporary resources. 
 Peace.
Quote:
Source: Jim Peron, "Exploding Population Myths," Fraser Forum, October 1995, Fraser Institute, 2nd Floor, 626 Bute Street, Vancouver, B. C., V6E 3M1, (604) 688-0221.
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: fireworks_god]
#5891430 - 07/23/06 04:51 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quite possible, and one only wonders what the strategic deployment of forces by multiple countries and organizations in once central location could possibly be for.
Oh, that's right, democracy and terrorism, silly me.
The real terror begins after martial law is declared as a "necessary" response to a "terrorist" attack.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: LunarEclipse]
#5891461 - 07/23/06 05:01 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Check out my response to you in my other active thread. We are the ones who have created this, out of simple choices we make in our every day life. We need to start making those choices before this structure will ensure we can no longer make them.
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: fireworks_god]
#5891500 - 07/23/06 05:13 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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The structure is a facade, just like 9/10s of an iceberg is under water and the rest can't be seen.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: fireworks_god]
#5892022 - 07/23/06 07:25 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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You think too many people live here and you want us to leave?
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: fireworks_god]
#5892159 - 07/23/06 07:55 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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The planet can easily sustain us all if only we use the information that is available to us. If we switch to better policies, business strategies, and technologies that are already available, sustainability could easily be accomplished. I'm actually reading about it right now, called Natural Capitalism, by Paul Hawken and Amory Lovins. Furthermore, I should point out that fertility rates tend to drop or even out as the standard of living rises, so ending third world poverty would go a long way towards stabilizing the world population.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: Silversoul]
#5892248 - 07/23/06 08:14 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Do you think we will be capable of achieving a rather seamless transition, or are we going to suffer on a considerable level? What do you think needs to change? What are the initial steps we must take?
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Gomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!


Registered: 09/11/04
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: fireworks_god]
#5892299 - 07/23/06 08:35 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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We need not even need..
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OldWoodSpecter
waiting


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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: fireworks_god]
#5892317 - 07/23/06 08:40 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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All it takes is people to have one child. I think that isn't much to ask. One child per family and the problem is fixed within a couple of decades.
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: fireworks_god]
#5892487 - 07/23/06 09:27 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
fireworks_god said: Do you think we will be capable of achieving a rather seamless transition, or are we going to suffer on a considerable level? What do you think needs to change? What are the initial steps we must take?
 Peace.
I do think it will take somewhat of a crisis for many people to wake up. However, things are gradually changing already. More and more businesses are starting to learn that energy and resource efficiency is more profitable than simple plundering. I can't really say what "initial steps" we must take, because they're already being taken. However, there remains much to be done, much of which involves the rest of the world catching up to some the paradigms that are already being made.
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Cracka_X
Spiritual Dirt Worshipper



Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 8,808
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: fireworks_god]
#5892671 - 07/23/06 10:35 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I hate to sound cynical but I think diseases likes cancer and AIDS, although very depressing is a nature's population control. In Medieval times when there was an overpopulation famine or plague would take place and take care of the overpopulation.
-------------------- The best way to live is to be like water For water benefits all things and goes against none of them It provides for all people and even cleanses those places a man is loath to go In this way it is just like Tao ~Daodejing
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BleaK
paradox
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: fireworks_god]
#5892799 - 07/23/06 11:30 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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i dunno if anyone touched on this but there is a better reason for population reduction. which is that since there is no known nessesity for creating life, it is irresponsible, and immoral to subject innocence to suffering.
-------------------- "You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma
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Fucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: fireworks_god]
#5893049 - 07/24/06 12:40 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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All populations of beasts, have their blooming periods and then they have there withering periods...Humans will be no different. All ready there has been several mass die offs of humans...BUT........If you are willing to be the first.......
Have your Balls removed......... Start a eunuch revolution.
-------------------- What it is, is what it is my Brother. It is as it is, so suffer thru it.
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TacticalBongRip
Curious Observer


Registered: 08/20/05
Posts: 527
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: Fucknuckle]
#5893478 - 07/24/06 03:23 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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They can start by making birth control free and handing it out to anyone who is interested >_<
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: fireworks_god]
#5893984 - 07/24/06 10:41 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
fireworks_god said:
We should exist in balance with our planet and its renewable resources. Who cares if we are not so technologically advanced that we can destroy stars that will collide with us? The last frontier is about to become completely owned by the government, who will be monitoring and tracking everything. Is such complexity necessary? Screw it! Where will you go to express a free thought without fear of retaliation? Where can we go to simply be?
uhhhh... it seems to me there is a basic conflict here. You say we need to employ self-control in order to keep from needlessly expending all of our resources, but then you say you want freedom?
the only way to reduce the population is through some kind of fascist plan to intervene in human nature. So how can we be free AND survive? Obviously there must be some kind of compromise, but SOMEONE'S rights are going to have to get trampled.
So who should be the one to draw the short straw and take one for the team? A bunch of indigenous peoples who a) don't really contribute much to the problem and b) have been getting trampled for years
OR
a bunch of rich white people who waste vast amounts of resources listening to heavy metal and complaining on the internet to their stoner buddies about how we need to kill some people in order to keep the party going?
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Sexychick
Life is what youmake it.

Registered: 12/07/05
Posts: 16
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: fireworks_god]
#5894035 - 07/24/06 11:11 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I have to agree with you... Birth Control Pills should be manditory for every woman
lol jk!!!!
I do think that dumb people multiply (reproduce) at an alarming rate though.
--------------------
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EquilibriuM
dream stalker

Registered: 07/17/05
Posts: 2,323
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: DoctorJ]
#5894058 - 07/24/06 11:22 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
DoctorJ said:
Quote:
fireworks_god said:
We should exist in balance with our planet and its renewable resources. Who cares if we are not so technologically advanced that we can destroy stars that will collide with us? The last frontier is about to become completely owned by the government, who will be monitoring and tracking everything. Is such complexity necessary? Screw it! Where will you go to express a free thought without fear of retaliation? Where can we go to simply be?
uhhhh... it seems to me there is a basic conflict here. You say we need to employ self-control in order to keep from needlessly expending all of our resources, but then you say you want freedom?
the only way to reduce the population is through some kind of fascist plan to intervene in human nature. So how can we be free AND survive? Obviously there must be some kind of compromise, but SOMEONE'S rights are going to have to get trampled.
So who should be the one to draw the short straw and take one for the team? A bunch of indigenous peoples who a) don't really contribute much to the problem and b) have been getting trampled for years
OR
a bunch of rich white people who waste vast amounts of resources listening to heavy metal and complaining on the internet to their stoner buddies about how we need to kill some people in order to keep the party going?
I don't see freedom and self control being in direct conflict.
Right now I am free to drink a bottle of everclear but I have the self control to say, Its barley noon and I got shit to do today and oh yeah, everclear tastes like shit.
-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
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capliberty
Stranger


Registered: 04/23/06
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: Sexychick]
#5894071 - 07/24/06 11:26 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I do think that dumb people multiply (reproduce) at an alarming rate though.
I know what you mean, its like they want to have kids, but its not really suitable conditions, some kids have kids far too young, and alot of it has to do with birth contol,
and then you hear so lame execuse, well it makes me emotional, or gives me cramps, thats your reason why you accidently got pregant, give it up, a birth of child after the fact I guess should be considered a special event but still that doesn't justify your stupid actions, maybe it would've been a wiser choice to actually wait a little while, or some these dumasses have kids because they need somebody to cling to, its living breathing cabbage patch doll, that gives them company, its a joke sometimes how certain circumstances playout
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: DoctorJ]
#5894078 - 07/24/06 11:27 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
DoctorJ said: So who should be the one to draw the short straw and take one for the team? A bunch of indigenous peoples who a) don't really contribute much to the problem and b) have been getting trampled for years
OR
a bunch of rich white people who waste vast amounts of resources listening to heavy metal and complaining on the internet to their stoner buddies about how we need to kill some people in order to keep the party going?
pwned
--------------------
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it stars saddam
Satan

Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 15,571
Loc: Spahn Ranch
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: capliberty]
#5894117 - 07/24/06 11:43 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
capliberty said: and then you hear so lame execuse, well it makes me emotional, or gives me cramps, thats your reason why you accidently got pregant, give it up, a birth of child after the fact I guess should be considered a special event but still that doesn't justify your stupid actions, maybe it would've been a wiser choice to actually wait a little while, or some these dumasses have kids because they need somebody to cling to, its living breathing cabbage patch doll, that gives them company, its a joke sometimes how certain circumstances playout
LOL
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BlueCoyote
Beyond


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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: fireworks_god]
#5894259 - 07/24/06 12:50 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Meanwhile wave goodbye to the 'germans'. We have a negative population growth for us, while our amount of people in our country rises. Foreign 'inhabitation'. We have 'forgotten' to reproduce. It seems, we are self-extincting ourselves by our best.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: BlueCoyote]
#5894308 - 07/24/06 01:06 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
BlueCoyote said: Meanwhile wave goodbye to the 'germans'. We have a negative population growth for us, while our amount of people in our country rises. Foreign 'inhabitation'. We have 'forgotten' to reproduce. It seems, we are self-extincting ourselves by our best.
Actually, this is a perfect example of what I was talking about. Germany and various other European countries have reached a standard of living high enough that most people feel safe with just one child, or two at most, leading to either zero population growth or negative population growth. If the rest of the world had the standard of living enjoyed by the average European, most people would not be having 10 kids.
--------------------
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: DoctorJ]
#5894938 - 07/24/06 05:02 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
DoctorJ said: uhhhh... it seems to me there is a basic conflict here.
It seems to me that perhaps your assessment does not reflect the presented material that you are apparently misinterpreting. 
Quote:
You say we need to employ self-control in order to keep from needlessly expending all of our resources, but then you say you want freedom?
I don't recall referring to self-control in the slightest. Perhaps you could reproduce my statement that did allude to self-control?
Quote:
the only way to reduce the population is through some kind of fascist plan to intervene in human nature.
Nature will reduce population on its own. For example, if a certain amount of the population is dependant upon oil for their suvival, as the majority of the population assuredly is, and adequate preperations are not in place for a transition from one resource to another, then that amount of the population will not survive.
Hhhhm... makes sense. 
Another effective manner in which to reduce the population levels, one which does not rely on facsicm, is to simply not reproduce. 
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So how can we be free AND survive? Obviously there must be some kind of compromise, but SOMEONE'S rights are going to have to get trampled.
Only in your skewed concept of how population reduction would occur. Are fascists behind every closet door, my friend? 
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So who should be the one to draw the short straw and take one for the team? A bunch of indigenous peoples who a) don't really contribute much to the problem and b) have been getting trampled for years
You've constructed your little strawman and now you are ripping it to shreds, great, you must be very proud of your great ability to defeat straw.
Quote:
a bunch of rich white people who waste vast amounts of resources listening to heavy metal and complaining on the internet to their stoner buddies about how we need to kill some people in order to keep the party going?
So, let us see here... you've contributed nothing pertaining to this discussion. You've blatantly accused the person presenting a topic for discussion as a fascist in a subtle manner, by declaring "Oh, you are saying that we must do this (wasn't saying we must do this), well, that is fascism, you're a waste of resources who wants to kill people to sustain yourself". Clever trolling, but it certainly doesn't go unnoticed. If you were worth the time, I'd troll you in return ten-fold, but I simply acknowledge that, at best probability, you are simply someone who has no constructive outlet in life, trying to be cool on the internet with your balls in your hand. 
But then, I do not know you, and am not in a position to propose analysis of your personality. Of course, I have on interest whatsoever in knowing you, so I guess that just prevents the oppurtunity from ever arising... 
Or, perhaps I am assuming too much of you, and you are simply do not have basic reading comprehension abilities, and have a wild imagination with which you jump to baseless conclusions? Either one isn't exactly a pretty picture.
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: Silversoul]
#5894957 - 07/24/06 05:07 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Silversoul said: pwned

I know, right? He certainly called me on that one, omg!
Hey Silversoul, you're a fascist, because like, by saying "pwned", like, only fascists say that, yo. 
No, when you say that, you are actually saying that, but the only way to do that is to do this, which is fascist to do so! 
See, and then, after typing all of this stuff up, it makes it look like it was an actual response to what you said, and then I can laugh at you and you're like totally pwned, man. 
I think certain individuals need to adjust their medication, or start taking it again... I think the proportion of schizophrenic whackjobs to actual contributors is a bit alarming, hopefully it is not reflective of mushrooms themselves...
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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twelvelookslikeu
Stranger


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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: fireworks_god]
#5895463 - 07/24/06 07:51 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Right on fireworks god
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: fireworks_god]
#5895818 - 07/24/06 09:10 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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how do you plan to reduce the population? ask people nicely?
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Deviate
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: fireworks_god]
#5897149 - 07/25/06 05:06 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
We need to see a major population reduction in order for this planet to survive and our quality of life to continue. We do not need billions of people on this planet, and this planet cannot support billions of people on this planet.
i havent read this whole thread but i just wanted to say that the world is not over populated, not even close. we studied this topic in my environmental science class last year and it was generally agreed upon by the leading researchers that the earth would have no problem supporting 10 billion people. i'd like to know how you reached the conclusion that the earth couldn't support a population in the billions when it has done so for the past 200 years, even with considerably less than optimal allocation of resources. also, how did determine the number of people we "need"?
Edited by Deviate (07/25/06 05:08 AM)
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: DoctorJ]
#5897153 - 07/25/06 05:08 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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As I stated in the first post, my plan for action is for individuals to bring purpose and meaning within themselves. That is all I stated on the matter, and that is all I intend to. I never once proposed or implied any sort of plan for population reduction. You have mockingly proposed fascist plans for population control, I have not, and frankly, it does not surprise me that you have. 
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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niteowl
GrandPaw


Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: fireworks_god]
#5897247 - 07/25/06 06:31 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
fireworks_god said: Work with bacteria cultures demonstrates that there is a population explosion just before the bacteria consumes all of its resources.
Don't ya just love it when someone compares a single-celled virus to a human? How can you rationally, make this kind of comparison?
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If we start bringing meaning and purpose within ourselves, that meaning and purpose will not continue to be spread out against the thinnest margin possible.
?what?
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I see no point in amassing huge populations on this planet - what are we striving for with such effort?
People like to live with other people.......thats why people gather in these large cities.
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We should exist in balance with our planet and its renewable resources.
Now we are getting to the real reason for this post......renewable resources..... (over-population is a myth......another scare tactic, or form of fear-mongering)
Did you know that the human race is working toward that goal of balance? There are people trying to make ethanol, that will safely run in a car. It wont be long before they can make oil (that will work in your car) from corn.
Just because it isn't main-stream yet, doesn't mean that it won't be main-stream in the future.
Try to see past the mistakes of humanity and look at the good that mankind is trying to do. If you focus on the negative, that's all you'll be able to see.
-------------------- Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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Sinthetic
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: fireworks_god]
#5897248 - 07/25/06 06:31 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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capliberty
Stranger


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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: Sinthetic]
#5897300 - 07/25/06 07:18 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I still op for mass nuclear warfare, with me pressing the buttons,
I mean think about it, we didn't spend billions on stealth bombers for
them not to get used, their perfect for dropping a-bombs and
eventually nukes will get into the wrong hands, I mean why North Korea
develop the nukes, so they could get political leverage, they get more
appease and attention, gorilla tactics will make it harder to
locate and dismantle the enemy, and cities instead of building can be
decimated, might as well trump the whole situation, and do in all our
enemies before they do us, we done it before, mass nukes of innocent
people, and now look at Japan, their economy is better, but now whats
better is our bombs are cleaner, no radiation after effects, I'm mean
WW3 might not be all that bad, it be entertaining on T.v. as well, I
mean I'm not scared of it
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: fireworks_god]
#5897510 - 07/25/06 09:05 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
fireworks_god said: As I stated in the first post, my plan for action is for individuals to bring purpose and meaning within themselves. That is all I stated on the matter, and that is all I intend to. I never once proposed or implied any sort of plan for population reduction. You have mockingly proposed fascist plans for population control, I have not, and frankly, it does not surprise me that you have. 
 Peace.
oh, OK, then you are just talking hot air.
sorry I wasted my attention. carry on
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Mourningdove
Stranger
Registered: 11/24/05
Posts: 399
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: DoctorJ]
#5897713 - 07/25/06 10:38 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yes, if people would just stop reproducing as much, we COULD save ourselves, but humans are creatures who are just as much slaves to their instinct as any other animal. Our intelligence seems to intentionally block truth so our survival instinct is strong. It seems as though we were meant to crash-like any other species that over populates. Most religions predict this. We won't go extinct rather, we will be reduced to a tribal life again. If we could cut our population in half we would survive, but we will not do that. It seems like the human species as a whole must go through a death and rebirth to actually progress, evolve whatever. Humans probably thrived in South America 3,000 years ago.
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BlueCoyote
Beyond


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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: capliberty]
#5897974 - 07/25/06 11:58 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Warmongers should be bombed out first.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: DoctorJ]
#5899847 - 07/25/06 09:48 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
DoctorJ said: oh, OK, then you are just talking hot air.
sorry I wasted my attention. carry on
Incorrect, I was proposing a valid point. Valid points and drama queens (hahaha, "queen", makes sense) don't equate, apparently.
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: niteowl]
#5900089 - 07/25/06 10:35 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
niteowl said: Don't ya just love it when someone compares a single-celled virus to a human? How can you rationally, make this kind of comparison?
Hhhm... let's think about it for a second. Living organisms, dependant on resources to survive... hhhm...
So are you saying that humans that are living will just stop consuming resources right before they exhaust them? 
Quote:
?what?
Awareness correlates with meaning and purpose. It is no small wonder that the people who reproduce the most are often living in trailer parks. It is almost as if the DNA can sense the end of the line, so it prompts the individual to start shooting out babies in every direction in the hope that maybe one of them, by random occurence, gets a breast implant and learns to lip sync. 
Once again, it is an issue of quality vs. quantity. Do you deny this?
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People like to live with other people.......thats why people gather in these large cities.
You propose that the main reason people live in cities is because they like to live with other people? Ever walk down a sidewalk, or in a retail store? People seem to be overwhelmed with joy that they are sharing the same space as other people. 
Cities exist for altogether different reasons. Humans certainly are social animals, though, but this doesn't explain sustaining enormous populations with nonrenewable resources.
Quote:
Now we are getting to the real reason for this post......renewable resources..... (over-population is a myth......another scare tactic, or form of fear-mongering)
Yes, my motivation is to make people afraid. Reality is frightening, isn't it?
So you suggest that we should amass populations supported by resources that are not renewable, in any practical sense of the word?
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Did you know that the human race is working toward that goal of balance? There are people trying to make ethanol, that will safely run in a car. It wont be long before they can make oil (that will work in your car) from corn.
Yes, I am aware of ethanol. I am also aware of the fact that the production of ethanol requires oil in the first place. It takes more energy to produce ethanol than ethanol offers, it probably cannot fufill our energy demand anyways, and the glaring fact of the matter is that production of corn requires fertilizer, pesticides, the assembly of machinery, etc. etc. etc. etc... all dependant on oil. The only way to solve this resource dilemna is to completely restructure the way our civilization runs, not just grow some corn to replace 85% of our gasoline for our cars. 
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Just because it isn't main-stream yet, doesn't mean that it won't be main-stream in the future.
Well, I suppose if they were to genetically enhance the corn to the point where it could fertilize the ground itself, be completely pest resistant, and harvest and process itself. 
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Try to see past the mistakes of humanity and look at the good that mankind is trying to do. If you focus on the negative, that's all you'll be able to see.
Positivity in itself is not going to save the world. It requires a determined plan for action, which, in turn, needs to be focused upon by all and implemented. As far as we can see, it is business as usual, with no proposed, long-term, equally effective solution to our incredible, multi-faceted dependance on oil. We eat and drink oil, my friend. 
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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cloudtop
Stranger


Registered: 08/16/04
Posts: 66
Loc: bespin
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: fireworks_god]
#5900367 - 07/25/06 11:29 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Threads such as this one always lead me to suggesting Daniel Quinn's Ishmael series for some fine reading. Yes, Paul Hawken is an excellent resource as well.
In answer to the original topic: "we" don't "need" any people. Necessity is determined by your own value system. This is apparently a difficult concept, as people who learn I've had a vasectomy to avoid reproducing persistently wonder how the population could continue if everybody made such a choice. Guess what? It doesn't matter if the population continues and I just happen to have escaped the mode which causes me to assume human existence is "necessary" or "good". It is what it is, and I'm glad to be alive for my own sake, but beyond that we are without the capability of caring.
As for overpopulation in general, our system functions such that our population expands to the amount of resources available: no food, no people. If our population is sustaining, it may be an indicator our food production is plateauing, though further evidence is needed.
Nevertheless, I highly recommend Quinn's series as a means to escape the mentality that we need to "fix the world" for its own sake.
-------------------- peacefromabovecloudtop
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: cloudtop]
#5900436 - 07/25/06 11:44 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Great reply, well thought out and properly expressed, quite rare in these parts anymore.
This post was simply a rant. Interestingly, when I go out on a limb with a rant and speak from a more basic point of view, I get more replies. People love to have an opinion they can challenge, myself included, or, in Doctor J's case, they love to have something they can use to try to make others look fascist and, at the same time, inflate their own superego. 
I'm not worried about the Earth, as it'll take care of itself. If humans were truly aware and compassionate, they would realize their limitations for growth and plan accordingly, not simply breed until the bottom falls out, but hey, where is the rationality in comparing humans to other aspects of nature? 
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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niteowl
GrandPaw


Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: fireworks_god]
#5901175 - 07/26/06 05:58 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
People love to have an opinion they can challenge, myself included, or, in Doctor J's case, they love to have something they can use to try to make others look fascist and, at the same time, inflate their own superego.
-------------------- Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero


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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: niteowl]
#5901238 - 07/26/06 06:46 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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It seems the people who are most in favor of war, seem to be the least educated. Examples provided in this thread, between the grammar and spellings, it's obvious who stands on which side most of the time.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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capliberty
Stranger


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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: kotik]
#5901300 - 07/26/06 07:51 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
It seems the people who are most in favor of war, seem to be the least educated. Examples provided in this thread, between the grammar and spellings, it's obvious who stands on which side most of the time.
I have a college degree punk
I don't care about grammar and spelling in a mushroom forum, this isn't business writing, I don't have to impress anybody, you obviously understood my message, thats all thats required, I see plenty posters with off grammar, and I don't judge there smarts by this,
besides English class isn't anything hard compared to doing something like high levels of math and physics such what I was taking in college, try to compare making a good written report, to understand 10 step math problem that incorporates, physics, such as force vectors, geometry such as angles, calculus, measuring curves, statics, and matrices into one problem, and try to picture high dimensional math equations in linear algebra, there is no comparison
Edited by capliberty (07/26/06 07:57 AM)
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cloudtop
Stranger


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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: capliberty]
#5902211 - 07/26/06 03:36 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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With due respect, math/physics and grammar lie in two distinct realms of human cognition. Furthermore, a college degree does not an educated individual make.
I think a more precise correlation could focus on an attempt at personal awareness and soundness of action based upon succinctly weighed observations and deductions. Whereas many individuals see war-mongering as a trait of the uneducated, it may be beneficial to instead ascribe such traits to a contextually unaware individual. Of course, whether war-mongering is antithetical to awareness depends entirely upon your frame of reference (read: personal value system).
While I'm not fond of war, I do not make the mistake of thinking violence is antithetical to progress nor without its probable place in our society. Any action, however, which seeks to subjugate the freedoms of another to my own value system in a way that is patently deleterious to their well-being is difficult to establish a logical basis for without eroding my own foundational premises. I can only speak for myself based upon my current logical premises, however, and do not find it logically defensible to assume the value systems of others.
All in all, if somebody can logically defend their right to offend...more power to them. I'm always intrigued to see if somebody else has a solution to the paradox of balancing the will to power while maintaining awareness of the sanctity of others' awareness/freedom.
-------------------- peacefromabovecloudtop
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: capliberty]
#5902902 - 07/26/06 08:20 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
capliberty said: I don't care about grammar and spelling in a mushroom forum, this isn't business writing, I don't have to impress anybody, you obviously understood my message, thats all thats required, I see plenty posters with off grammar, and I don't judge there smarts by this,
We're not asking you to try to impress us, I think myself (perhaps others?) would perhaps appreciate it more if you were to put more effort into expressing yourself. Honestly, I would like to think that others would put as much effort into listening to my perspective as I put into it, and it is with this thought that I wonder if you expect others to put effort into reading your perspective if you do not instill within it a practical sense of effort. What do you think?
I think my point is that, no, I did not understand your message, and I usually have difficulty with understanding your message. It isn't a matter of judging "smarts", but rather a sense of appreciation for the art of exchanging thoughts and ideas. I am also one to think that it is entirely possible that the amount of focus and intention, purpose, that is placed within one's written thought is entirely reflective of one's mental thought, albeit slowed down and perhaps more conscious.
I encourage a level of discpline and attempt. I hold no expectations, but if you truly wish for your perspective to be considered as you intended it to be, then consider properly expressing oneself. 
Quote:
besides English class isn't anything hard compared to doing something like high levels of math and physics such what I was taking in college, try to compare making a good written report, to understand 10 step math problem that incorporates, physics, such as force vectors, geometry such as angles, calculus, measuring curves, statics, and matrices into one problem, and try to picture high dimensional math equations in linear algebra, there is no comparison
Its great that one feels a sense of accomplishment in one's studies, but realize that almost all endeavors are of the same - of no comparison to other endeavors, practices, whatever you wish to refer to it as. There are a multitude of paths that all lead to the same path. I think we just need to learn, as a collective, to integrate those paths with each other. 
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: cloudtop]
#5904649 - 07/27/06 08:54 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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"I've had a vasectomy to avoid reproducing"
Way to walk your talk!
I live in a town which is rife with greener-than-thou, neo-hippie, white-dreadlocked, trust fund babies. They all rant about breeders ruining the planet, yet they don't use birth control because it is not "natural," and have not taken the step of permanently eliminating their ability to reproduce.
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Trepiodos
Disgustipated


Registered: 06/30/06
Posts: 469
Loc: Los Angeles County Jail
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: Veritas]
#5904660 - 07/27/06 08:59 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I've had a vasectomy to avoid expenses. Seeing as I proclaim myself to be 'a cheap bastard,' can I get a round of applause too?
--------------------
And as things fell apart, Nobody paid much attention... - David Byrne, '(Nothing But) Flowers' from the Talking Heads' album, 'Naked'
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: Trepiodos]
#5904708 - 07/27/06 09:24 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Whatever the reasons, I'll applaud anyone who takes responsibility for their reproductive capacity.
It's easy to bitch about overpopulation, but how many of the angry young men/women will do something about it once they step off the soapbox & head into the bedroom?
Quote:
Forty-eight percent of women aged 15-44 in 1994 had had at least one unplanned pregnancy sometime in their lives; 28% had had one or more unplanned births, 30% had had one or more abortions and 11% had had both.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly


Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,685
Loc: On the Border
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: Veritas]
#5906075 - 07/27/06 05:03 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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"It's easy to bitch about overpopulation, but how many of the angry young men/women will do something about it once they step off the soapbox & head into the bedroom?"
My children were the product of total thoughtlesness and denial of responsibility. I had no idea what raising children required or what responsibility it entailed. (I thought babies could crawl from day 1 for example) It does not make my children any less wanted or appreciated. I would go as far as to say that instead of people sterilizing themselves and encoraging destructive nihilist behaviors and philosophies and cursing mankind in general. The world would benefit more from responsible intelligent people who take care and responsibility in all of their actions, and if they decide to have children, then encourage them to do the same. I didn't take much care as a young man, but my children have been taught the error of this sort of heedless way of life. I feel no guilt at having brought more people into this world, but instead I feel joy that I have brought such thoughtful and responsible people into life.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
Edited by Huehuecoyotl (07/27/06 07:21 PM)
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#5906117 - 07/27/06 05:17 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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--------------------
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#5906363 - 07/27/06 06:59 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said: I would go as far as to say that instead of people sterilizing themselves and encoraging destructive nihilist behaviors and philosophies and cursing mankind in general (like the original poster commonly does)
What are you talking about? I do not recall myself cursing mankind in general, or encouraging destructive, nihilist behaviors. Please clarify this matter. Perhaps you are referring to someone else, if not, I'd like to know exactly how I am projecting such an image.
Quote:
the world would benefit more from responsible intelligent people who take care and responsibility in all of their actions, and if they decide to have children, then encourage them to do the same.
My entire point. But someone else has proposed that thinking such is fascist, and also that such is simply "hot air". Perhaps that is the person you speak of? 
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly


Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,685
Loc: On the Border
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: fireworks_god]
#5906423 - 07/27/06 07:20 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I will put it to you like this. I confused this thread with "how can something so profound be ignored?", and I ended up replying to the wrong thread. I totally fucked up. Does that explain my position more rationally? I edioted my last post to reflect this by removing inadvertant reference to you.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
Edited by Huehuecoyotl (07/27/06 07:22 PM)
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