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Offlinecapliberty
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: Sinthetic]
    #5897300 - 07/25/06 07:18 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I still op for mass nuclear warfare, with me pressing the buttons,

I mean think about it, we didn't spend billions on stealth bombers for

them not to get used, their perfect for dropping a-bombs and

eventually nukes will get into the wrong hands, I mean why North Korea

develop the nukes, so they could get political leverage, they get more

appease and attention, gorilla tactics will make it harder to

locate and dismantle the enemy, and cities instead of building can be

decimated, might as well trump the whole situation, and do in all our

enemies before they do us, we done it before, mass nukes of innocent

people, and now look at Japan, their economy is better, but now whats

better is our bombs are cleaner, no radiation after effects, I'm mean

WW3 might not be all that bad, it be entertaining on T.v. as well, I

mean I'm not scared of it


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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5897510 - 07/25/06 09:05 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
As I stated in the first post, my plan for action is for individuals to bring purpose and meaning within themselves. That is all I stated on the matter, and that is all I intend to. I never once proposed or implied any sort of plan for population reduction. You have mockingly proposed fascist plans for population control, I have not, and frankly, it does not surprise me that you have. :shrug:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:




oh, OK, then you are just talking hot air. 

sorry I wasted my attention.  carry on :blah:


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InvisibleMourningdove
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5897713 - 07/25/06 10:38 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Yes, if people would just stop reproducing as much, we COULD save ourselves, but humans are creatures who are just as much slaves to their instinct as any other animal. Our intelligence seems to intentionally block truth so our survival instinct is strong. It seems as though we were meant to crash-like any other species that over populates. Most religions predict this. We won't go extinct rather, we will be reduced to a tribal life again. If we could cut our population in half we would survive, but we will not do that. It seems like the human species as a whole must go through a death and rebirth to actually progress, evolve whatever. Humans probably thrived in South America 3,000 years ago.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: capliberty]
    #5897974 - 07/25/06 11:58 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Warmongers should be bombed out first.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5899847 - 07/25/06 09:48 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

DoctorJ said:
oh, OK, then you are just talking hot air. 

sorry I wasted my attention.  carry on :blah:




Incorrect, I was proposing a valid point. Valid points and drama queens (hahaha, "queen", makes sense) don't equate, apparently.

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: niteowl]
    #5900089 - 07/25/06 10:35 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
Don't ya just love it when someone compares a single-celled virus to a human?
How can you rationally, make this kind of comparison?




Hhhm... let's think about it for a second. Living organisms, dependant on resources to survive... hhhm...

So are you saying that humans that are living will just stop consuming resources right before they exhaust them? :smirk:

Quote:


?what?




Awareness correlates with meaning and purpose. It is no small wonder that the people who reproduce the most are often living in trailer parks. It is almost as if the DNA can sense the end of the line, so it prompts the individual to start shooting out babies in every direction in the hope that maybe one of them, by random occurence, gets a breast implant and learns to lip sync. :lol:

Once again, it is an issue of quality vs. quantity. Do you deny this?

Quote:


People like to live with other people.......thats why people gather in these large cities.




You propose that the main reason people live in cities is because they like to live with other people? :smirk: Ever walk down a sidewalk, or in a retail store? People seem to be overwhelmed with joy that they are sharing the same space as other people. :lol:

Cities exist for altogether different reasons. Humans certainly are social animals, though, but this doesn't explain sustaining enormous populations with nonrenewable resources.

Quote:


Now we are getting to the real reason for this post......renewable resources.....
(over-population is a myth......another scare tactic, or form of fear-mongering)




Yes, my motivation is to make people afraid. :lol: Reality is frightening, isn't it?

So you suggest that we should amass populations supported by resources that are not renewable, in any practical sense of the word?

Quote:


Did you know that the human race is working toward that goal of balance?
There are people trying to make ethanol, that will safely run in a car. It wont be long before they can make oil (that will work in your car) from corn.




Yes, I am aware of ethanol. I am also aware of the fact that the production of ethanol requires oil in the first place. It takes more energy to produce ethanol than ethanol offers, it probably cannot fufill our energy demand anyways, and the glaring fact of the matter is that production of corn requires fertilizer, pesticides, the assembly of machinery, etc. etc. etc. etc... all dependant on oil. The only way to solve this resource dilemna is to completely restructure the way our civilization runs, not just grow some corn to replace 85% of our gasoline for our cars. :lol:

Quote:


Just because it isn't main-stream yet, doesn't mean that it won't be main-stream in the future.




Well, I suppose if they were to genetically enhance the corn to the point where it could fertilize the ground itself, be completely pest resistant, and harvest and process itself. :smirk:

Quote:


Try to see past the mistakes of humanity and look at the good that mankind is trying to do.
If you focus on the negative, that's all you'll be able to see.




Positivity in itself is not going to save the world. It requires a determined plan for action, which, in turn, needs to be focused upon by all and implemented. As far as we can see, it is business as usual, with no proposed, long-term, equally effective solution to our incredible, multi-faceted dependance on oil. We eat and drink oil, my friend. :shocked:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisiblecloudtop
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5900367 - 07/25/06 11:29 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Threads such as this one always lead me to suggesting Daniel Quinn's Ishmael series for some fine reading. Yes, Paul Hawken is an excellent resource as well.

In answer to the original topic: "we" don't "need" any people. Necessity is determined by your own value system. This is apparently a difficult concept, as people who learn I've had a vasectomy to avoid reproducing persistently wonder how the population could continue if everybody made such a choice. Guess what? It doesn't matter if the population continues and I just happen to have escaped the mode which causes me to assume human existence is "necessary" or "good". It is what it is, and I'm glad to be alive for my own sake, but beyond that we are without the capability of caring.

As for overpopulation in general, our system functions such that our population expands to the amount of resources available: no food, no people. If our population is sustaining, it may be an indicator our food production is plateauing, though further evidence is needed.

Nevertheless, I highly recommend Quinn's series as a means to escape the mentality that we need to "fix the world" for its own sake.


--------------------
peacefromabovecloudtop



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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: cloudtop]
    #5900436 - 07/25/06 11:44 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Great reply, well thought out and properly expressed, quite rare in these parts anymore. :grin:

This post was simply a rant. Interestingly, when I go out on a limb with a rant and speak from a more basic point of view, I get more replies. People love to have an opinion they can challenge, myself included, or, in Doctor J's case, they love to have something they can use to try to make others look fascist and, at the same time, inflate their own superego. :lol:

I'm not worried about the Earth, as it'll take care of itself. If humans were truly aware and compassionate, they would realize their limitations for growth and plan accordingly, not simply breed until the bottom falls out, but hey, where is the rationality in comparing humans to other aspects of nature? :smirk:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5901175 - 07/26/06 05:58 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

People love to have an opinion they can challenge, myself included, or, in Doctor J's case, they love to have something they can use to try to make others look fascist and, at the same time, inflate their own superego.




:yesnod:


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future


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Offlinekotik
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: niteowl]
    #5901238 - 07/26/06 06:46 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

It seems the people who are most in favor of war, seem to be the least educated. Examples provided in this thread, between the grammar and spellings, it's obvious who stands on which side most of the time.


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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Offlinecapliberty
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: kotik]
    #5901300 - 07/26/06 07:51 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

It seems the people who are most in favor of war, seem to be the least educated. Examples provided in this thread, between the grammar and spellings, it's obvious who stands on which side most of the time.




I have a college degree punk

I don't care about grammar and spelling in a mushroom forum, this isn't business writing, I don't have to impress anybody, you obviously understood my message, thats all thats required, I see plenty posters with off grammar, and I don't judge there smarts by this,

besides English class isn't anything hard compared to doing something like high levels of math and physics such what I was taking in college, try to compare making a good written report, to understand 10 step math problem that incorporates, physics, such as force vectors, geometry such as angles, calculus, measuring curves, statics, and matrices into one problem, and try to picture high dimensional math equations in linear algebra, there is no comparison


Edited by capliberty (07/26/06 07:57 AM)


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Invisiblecloudtop
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: capliberty]
    #5902211 - 07/26/06 03:36 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

With due respect, math/physics and grammar lie in two distinct realms of human cognition. Furthermore, a college degree does not an educated individual make.

I think a more precise correlation could focus on an attempt at personal awareness and soundness of action based upon succinctly weighed observations and deductions. Whereas many individuals see war-mongering as a trait of the uneducated, it may be beneficial to instead ascribe such traits to a contextually unaware individual. Of course, whether war-mongering is antithetical to awareness depends entirely upon your frame of reference (read: personal value system).

While I'm not fond of war, I do not make the mistake of thinking violence is antithetical to progress nor without its probable place in our society. Any action, however, which seeks to subjugate the freedoms of another to my own value system in a way that is patently deleterious to their well-being is difficult to establish a logical basis for without eroding my own foundational premises. I can only speak for myself based upon my current logical premises, however, and do not find it logically defensible to assume the value systems of others.

All in all, if somebody can logically defend their right to offend...more power to them. I'm always intrigued to see if somebody else has a solution to the paradox of balancing the will to power while maintaining awareness of the sanctity of others' awareness/freedom.


--------------------
peacefromabovecloudtop



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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: capliberty]
    #5902902 - 07/26/06 08:20 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

capliberty said:
I  don't care about grammar and spelling in a mushroom forum, this isn't business writing, I don't have to impress anybody, you obviously understood my message, thats all thats required, I see plenty posters with off grammar, and I don't judge there smarts by this,




We're not asking you to try to impress us, I think myself (perhaps others?) would perhaps appreciate it more if you were to put more effort into expressing yourself. Honestly, I would like to think that others would put as much effort into listening to my perspective as I put into it, and it is with this thought that I wonder if you expect others to put effort into reading your perspective if you do not instill within it a practical sense of effort. What do you think?

I think my point is that, no, I did not understand your message, and I usually have difficulty with understanding your message. It isn't a matter of judging "smarts", but rather a sense of appreciation for the art of exchanging thoughts and ideas. I am also one to think that it is entirely possible that the amount of focus and intention, purpose, that is placed within one's written thought is entirely reflective of one's mental thought, albeit slowed down and perhaps more conscious.

I encourage a level of discpline and attempt. I hold no expectations, but if you truly wish for your perspective to be considered as you intended it to be, then consider properly expressing oneself. :wink:

Quote:


besides English class isn't anything hard compared to doing something like high levels of math and physics such what I was taking in college, try to compare making a good written report, to understand 10 step math problem that incorporates, physics, such as force vectors, geometry such as angles, calculus, measuring curves, statics, and matrices into one problem, and try to picture high dimensional math equations in linear algebra, there is no comparison




Its great that one feels a sense of accomplishment in one's studies, but realize that almost all endeavors are of the same - of no comparison to other endeavors, practices, whatever you wish to refer to it as. There are a multitude of paths that all lead to the same path. I think we just need to learn, as a collective, to integrate those paths with each other. :grin:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: cloudtop]
    #5904649 - 07/27/06 08:54 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

"I've had a vasectomy to avoid reproducing"

:congrats:

Way to walk your talk!

I live in a town which is rife with greener-than-thou, neo-hippie, white-dreadlocked, trust fund babies.  They all rant about breeders ruining the planet, yet they don't use birth control because it is not "natural," and have not taken the step of permanently eliminating their ability to reproduce.  :thumbdown:


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OfflineTrepiodos
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: Veritas]
    #5904660 - 07/27/06 08:59 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I've had a vasectomy to avoid expenses. Seeing as I proclaim myself to be 'a cheap bastard,' can I get a round of applause too?


--------------------

And as things fell apart,
Nobody paid much attention...

- David Byrne, '(Nothing But) Flowers' from the Talking Heads' album, 'Naked'


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: Trepiodos]
    #5904708 - 07/27/06 09:24 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

:congrats:


:lol:  Whatever the reasons, I'll applaud anyone who takes responsibility for their reproductive capacity.

It's easy to bitch about overpopulation, but how many of the angry young men/women will do something about it once they step off the soapbox & head into the bedroom? 

Quote:

Forty-eight percent of women aged 15-44 in 1994 had had at least one unplanned pregnancy sometime in their lives; 28% had had one or more unplanned births, 30% had had one or more abortions and 11% had had both.




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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: Veritas]
    #5906075 - 07/27/06 05:03 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

"It's easy to bitch about overpopulation, but how many of the angry young men/women will do something about it once they step off the soapbox & head into the bedroom?"

My children were the product of total thoughtlesness and denial of responsibility. I had no idea what raising children required or what responsibility it entailed. (I thought babies could crawl from day 1 for example) It does not make my children any less wanted or appreciated. I would go as far as to say that instead of people sterilizing themselves and encoraging destructive nihilist behaviors and philosophies and cursing mankind in general. The world would benefit more from responsible intelligent people who take care and responsibility in all of their actions, and if they decide to have children, then encourage them to do the same. I didn't take much care as a young man, but my children have been taught the error of this sort of heedless way of life. I feel no guilt at having brought more people into this world, but instead I feel joy that I have brought such thoughtful and responsible people into life.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


Edited by Huehuecoyotl (07/27/06 07:21 PM)


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5906117 - 07/27/06 05:17 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

:thumbup:


--------------------


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5906363 - 07/27/06 06:59 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
I would go as far as to say that instead of people sterilizing themselves and encoraging destructive nihilist behaviors and philosophies and cursing mankind in general (like the original poster commonly does)




What are you talking about? I do not recall myself cursing mankind in general, or encouraging destructive, nihilist behaviors. Please clarify this matter. Perhaps you are referring to someone else, if not, I'd like to know exactly how I am projecting such an image.

Quote:


the world would benefit more from responsible intelligent people who take care and responsibility in all of their actions, and if they decide to have children, then encourage them to do the same.




My entire point. But someone else has proposed that thinking such is fascist, and also that such is simply "hot air". Perhaps that is the person you speak of? :confused:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: We Do Not Need This Many People [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5906423 - 07/27/06 07:20 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I will put it to you like this. I confused this thread with "how can something so profound be ignored?", and I ended up replying to the wrong thread. I totally fucked up. Does that explain my position more rationally? I edioted my last post to reflect this by removing inadvertant reference to you.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


Edited by Huehuecoyotl (07/27/06 07:22 PM)


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