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brainfreezer187
Stranger
Registered: 09/28/05
Posts: 116
Last seen: 5 months, 2 days
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Coir as Bulk substrate Faq??
#5890106 - 07/23/06 10:26 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I was using hpoo but now i cant risk losing another batch do to HPoo so i am looking to get started right away on using coir as a bulk sub. can anyone point me in the direction of the FAQ i can use to read about it. Or some kind of directions to mix the spawn to the coir. Thank you
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Pinhead
Oregano


Registered: 05/13/00
Posts: 1,819
Loc: Hootersville
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I've heard using a little bit of used coffee grounds in your coir is good. I beleive that a little bit of oyster shell or gypsum is a good idea also.
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HarvestTheBrain
CultDeVader

Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 1,749
Loc: Usa
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Re: Coir as Bulk substrate Faq?? [Re: Pinhead]
#5890148 - 07/23/06 10:40 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yamidude
Stranger

Registered: 06/15/06
Posts: 957
Last seen: 15 years, 5 months
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YES, you can use coir as a substrate to spawn too. I did. Just add a little bit of coffee grounds in it and go.. It colonizes insanely fast.
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brainfreezer187
Stranger
Registered: 09/28/05
Posts: 116
Last seen: 5 months, 2 days
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Re: Coir as Bulk substrate Faq?? [Re: Yamidude]
#5890217 - 07/23/06 11:16 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yamidude did you sterilze the coir before you mix it? if so what did you do just mic it like you would for a casing layer? Fresh grounds? and also what ratio between spawn and sub? Thank you
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liamtheloser
Advanced Idiot

Registered: 06/07/06
Posts: 1,453
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Ok brainfreezermurdernumber. Here's some answers to your ?'s:
You can sterilize the coir if you want, I do a microwave pastuerization...
Hydrate coir with coffee/water mix or just water, squeeze excess water out, slap it in a microwaveable dish, cover with seran wrap (you can use an oven bag for this step as well). Microwave for 3 minutes, wait 15 minutes, microwave for 3 minutes, wait 15 minutes, microwave for 3 minutes and let it cool. If you're going to use coffee grounds and already have some that have been used, use those before you use fresh grounds. You can safely do a 1:4 ratio, just like with poop.
After it has colonized (usually within 3 days), go ahead and case it with peat/verm.
VOILA!
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absinthoman
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Registered: 06/09/06
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Re: Coir as Bulk substrate Faq?? [Re: liamtheloser]
#5890288 - 07/23/06 11:53 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Will it work great with a coir/straw plus coffee ground and oyster shells inoculated with an LC???What ratio of coir/straw should be used??? and after the pasteurization what are the chances of contamination compared to a rye substrate??
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liamtheloser
Advanced Idiot

Registered: 06/07/06
Posts: 1,453
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Re: Coir as Bulk substrate Faq?? [Re: absinthoman]
#5890299 - 07/23/06 12:00 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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There is no need for straw here. The coir is already loose and fluffy and holds a lot of water, not to mention colonizes lightning quick. I wouldn't recommend using straw with coir.
I think you're comparing apples to oranges though, because you're assuming that you can use pastuerized coir as a standard substrate. If you wanted to use Coir in your jars as your regular substrate, you'd have to pressure cook it, probably add grains or BRF to it, and get the moisture content perfectly correct. Which would all be a complicated process, but you're welcome to try it.
As far as using it as a bulk substrate, it works very well.
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brainfreezer187
Stranger
Registered: 09/28/05
Posts: 116
Last seen: 5 months, 2 days
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Re: Coir as Bulk substrate Faq?? [Re: liamtheloser]
#5890302 - 07/23/06 12:01 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thanks a lot i am going to try it out tomm>
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SpookerShroom
Shroomerite
Registered: 06/12/06
Posts: 244
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if you have any problems get ahold of creamcorn, I think he likes coir as a bulk sub quite a bit.
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brainfreezer187
Stranger
Registered: 09/28/05
Posts: 116
Last seen: 5 months, 2 days
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One last ? do you have to case these or can i just use the RR wax paper method? Thank you
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liamtheloser
Advanced Idiot

Registered: 06/07/06
Posts: 1,453
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You don't have to case, but of course it's highly recommended. A casing is much more forgiving when it comes to humidity and moisture content. Not to mention it makes way for an awesome pinset.
But of course, that _IS_ a choice you can make.
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brainfreezer187
Stranger
Registered: 09/28/05
Posts: 116
Last seen: 5 months, 2 days
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Re: Coir as Bulk substrate Faq?? [Re: liamtheloser]
#5890382 - 07/23/06 12:29 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Also how is the potency on these shrooms as opposed to the Hpoo because the Hpoo they are pretty potent i was wondering what i could expect out of the coir. I was reading another thread and they said that it gets worse as the casing hits 2nd and 3rd flush. But Agar said that was because of low levels of N so is that why you put the coffee grounds in? Thanks for the help
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liamtheloser
Advanced Idiot

Registered: 06/07/06
Posts: 1,453
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Coir has nutrients comparable to Hpoo. And yes, that's why coffee grounds are put in. I'm sure you could also use kelp meal or blood meal as well, but I use coffee grounds, because I have a huge pile of them in my kitchen every morning :P
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Yamidude
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Registered: 06/15/06
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Re: Coir as Bulk substrate Faq?? [Re: liamtheloser]
#5890526 - 07/23/06 01:16 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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im pc'ing another large batch of Coir and coffee grounds right this second. I have two cakes and a jar of WBS im going to make into two casing.. All 5 of my Hpoo casings had cobweb this morning when i checked them. I went with some 3% H2o2 misting on the affected areas and i checked them a little bit ago and the cobweb has disappeared.. I thank RR for his past posts on the issue
My coir casing has had not problems and is colonizing the casing material now.
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brainfreezer187
Stranger
Registered: 09/28/05
Posts: 116
Last seen: 5 months, 2 days
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Re: Coir as Bulk substrate Faq?? [Re: Yamidude]
#5890563 - 07/23/06 01:30 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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what do you mean pc'ing more coir? I thought you could just mic it instead of pressure cooking? Thanks
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Yamidude
Stranger

Registered: 06/15/06
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Last seen: 15 years, 5 months
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Quote:
brainfreezer187 said: what do you mean pc'ing more coir? I thought you could just mic it instead of pressure cooking? Thanks
I prefer to pc it. It's what's worked for me already..
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure


Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
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Re: Coir as Bulk substrate Faq?? [Re: Yamidude]
#5890577 - 07/23/06 01:33 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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You're not supposed to PC bulk substrates. If you sterilize, cobweb and the green molds will have little trouble colonizing your substrate before the mushroom mycelium can. Remember, pasteurize bulk substrates such as straw, coir, coffee grinds, manure etc., by heating to 140F to 170F for an hour. That means the interior of the bag or jar needs to be maintained at those temperatures for an hour. Whatever method you use, stick a meat thermometer into the center of the substrate to monitor temps until you get your system worked out. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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Yamidude
Stranger

Registered: 06/15/06
Posts: 957
Last seen: 15 years, 5 months
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Re: Coir as Bulk substrate Faq?? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#5890586 - 07/23/06 01:36 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: You're not supposed to PC bulk substrates. If you sterilize, cobweb and the green molds will have little trouble colonizing your substrate before the mushroom mycelium can. Remember, pasteurize bulk substrates such as straw, coir, coffee grinds, manure etc., by heating to 140F to 170F for an hour. That means the interior of the bag or jar needs to be maintained at those temperatures for an hour. Whatever method you use, stick a meat thermometer into the center of the substrate to monitor temps until you get your system worked out. RR
Well i know you know your stuff but i pc'ed my coir on the last casing i made and it fully colonized in 2 days with zero contams. However the tenn studd Hpoo that i got pre-pasturized gave me cobweb on all 5 casings..
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure


Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
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Re: Coir as Bulk substrate Faq?? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#5890598 - 07/23/06 01:42 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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By the way, I'm no believer in microwaving substrates either. If you heat beyond 170f, you're partially sterilizing and you'll have the same problems PC'ing will cause. A few minutes in the microwave will easily exceed that temperature, killing off beneficial bacteria that will help your substrate resist attack by harmful thermophilic bacteria and molds. I pasteurize in quart jars after first mixing the ingredients and bringing to field moisture capacity. I posted my procedure for it somewhere in this forum previously.
Coir is relatively low in calcium, so it can really benefit from the addition of gypsum at the rate of up to 5% to 10% by volume the amount of dry coir. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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