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InvisibleAsante
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The properties of Neutron
    #5889822 - 07/23/06 07:25 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I was just now thinking about the properties of neutrons, as a substance. (I'll call this substance Neutron, just like decelerated alpha-particles are considered ions of Helium)

Not neutrons flying about at 1000km/s, but Neutrons at standstill, as in, a hypothetical jar with a pound of neutrons.

I was struck with the strangeness of the properties it would have.

First of all it would seep through the walls of the vessel, even if it was a wall of iron a yard thick. It would basically be like a gas, but without the pressure that comes with atomic repulsion. It would here and there generate breathtaking densities, as groups of neutrons happen to bump together into a group. Given the gravity of Earth it would eventually settle to the bottom of the jar, and in doing that will generate outlandish densities in what can rightfully be called the stains from hell. (try to scrub that out :wink:)

So to our physics people here: imagine you had a jar of neutrons, let's say an impermeable jar so it won't seep out, what kinds of experiments could you do with it, revealing surprising properties of Neutron, being neutrons as a substance?

What does happen when two neutrons bump into eachother? (normal speeds and multi-MeV speeds) Just how high will densities get in that jar of Neutron?

Neutron - The stuff bleeds out of the sun and nuclear power plants, floats through space and our bodies, way too slowly to disrupt atoms, almost inert to everything..

Neutrons as a substance: speak your mind!


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Edited by Asante (07/23/06 07:35 AM)


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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: The properties of Neutron [Re: Asante]
    #5893144 - 07/24/06 01:04 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Can I snort them? :tongue:


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Offlinejungjedi
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Re: The properties of Neutron [Re: Konnrade]
    #5893263 - 07/24/06 01:44 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

did you know that a nuetron star is one big nuetron.and that elements have different properties on the surface of it than they would manifest on the surface of the earth?


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: The properties of Neutron [Re: jungjedi]
    #5893541 - 07/24/06 04:42 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

> a nuetron star is one big nuetron.and that elements have different properties on the surface of it

A neutron star is certainly not "one big neutron" and it also does not contain "elements". The gravity in a neutron star is so exteme that atoms ("elements, at least one electron orbiting at least one proton") cannot form.


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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: The properties of Neutron [Re: Seuss]
    #5894663 - 07/24/06 03:18 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

And they say that gravity is a weak force. Bah.


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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: The properties of Neutron [Re: Konnrade]
    #5894967 - 07/24/06 05:12 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Holy shit... I just had an interesting idea.

When thinking about the density possibilities mentioned by wiccan_seeker, a thought occurred to me.

What if the supposed "dark matter" of the universe was actually just areas where there was a dense accumulation of free neutrons?


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: The properties of Neutron [Re: Konnrade]
    #5897078 - 07/25/06 03:44 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

> was a dense accumulation of free neutrons?

The half life of a free neutron is around 10 minutes. Decay results in a proton, an electron, and an electron antineutrino.


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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: The properties of Neutron [Re: Seuss]
    #5899040 - 07/25/06 06:14 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Nevermind that, then. Obviously I'm not intimately familiar with subatomic particles :blush:


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: The properties of Neutron [Re: Seuss]
    #5899543 - 07/25/06 08:21 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I for one didn't know they were unstable outside a nucleus, and then with such a short halflife!

You learn new stuff every day here!


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OfflineChuangTzu Happy Birthday!
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Re: The properties of Neutron [Re: Asante]
    #5899664 - 07/25/06 08:52 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

At high pressures they are stable. But then they're not exactly "free'. If you had a bottle of them they would be considered free. I don't think it's humanly possible [edit: yet] to generate the pressures required to stabilize neutrons.

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
What does happen when two neutrons bump into eachother? (normal speeds and multi-MeV speeds)





They scatter. : )

Quote:

Just how high will densities get in that jar of Neutron?



Up to the density of a nucleus, but probably a bit less.


Edited by ChuangTzu (07/25/06 09:02 PM)


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: The properties of Neutron [Re: Asante]
    #5899669 - 07/25/06 08:53 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

But are protons stable... that's the million dollar question.


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OfflineChuangTzu Happy Birthday!
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Re: The properties of Neutron [Re: Diploid]
    #5899715 - 07/25/06 09:09 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

For the most part, protons are stable due to conservation of baryon number. I'm not sure if proton decay has ever been observed under any circumstances. Then again, I'm not a particle physicist.

[Edit: I just ripped this off wikipedia:
Quote:

Recent experiments at the Super-Kamiokande water Cherenkov radiation detector in Japan indicate a lower bound for the proton half-life of 10^35 years. Since this is a lower bound, it is consistent with the nonexistence of proton decay. That is, the proposal that the mechanisms that also give rise to proton decay are responsible for baryogenesis appears to be the null result experimentally.



]


Edited by ChuangTzu (07/25/06 09:11 PM)


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Offlinejungjedi
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Re: The properties of Neutron [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #5900374 - 07/25/06 11:31 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

so,why arent there PROTON stars?and then maybe they could bump into nuerton stars to malke a big helium star?


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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: The properties of Neutron [Re: jungjedi]
    #5900580 - 07/26/06 12:09 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

jungjedi said:
so,why arent there PROTON stars?and then maybe they could bump into nuerton stars to malke a big helium star?




Ugh...

neutron stars are NOT made of neutrons. It's just an astronomical terminology.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: The properties of Neutron [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #5901062 - 07/26/06 04:29 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

> so,why arent there PROTON stars?

Protons repel each other. They don't like to hang out together. Same as electrons. Neutrons are neutral and don't mind hanging out together. This is the simple to explain reason.

If you want to get more technical, the forces that create a neutron star are in opposition of one another. Some forces are holding the star together while other forces are trying to blow the star apart. These forces holding the star together are so great, that the electrons orbiting the nucleus of an atom are pulled into the nucleus. When a proton and electron combine, a neutron (and neutrino) is created.

There are probably other reasons as well.

> neutron stars are NOT made of neutrons. It's just an astronomical terminology.

They aren't?

http://www-astronomy.mps.ohio-state.edu/~ryden/ast162_5/notes21.html:
Quote:

A type II supernova occurs when the iron core of a supergiant star collapses to the density of an atomic nucleus (a few hundred million tons per cubic centimeter). At such tremendously high densities, protons and electrons are fused together into neutrons.




http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A877980:
Quote:

Surprisingly they are not composed of gas (plasma state) but the neutrons form the core of the star, hence the name.




http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/astro/pulsar.html:
Quote:

When it reaches the threshold of energy necessary to force the combining of electrons and protons to form neutrons, the electron degeneracy limit has been passed and the collapse continues until it is stopped by neutron degeneracy.




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InvisibleAsante
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Re: The properties of Neutron [Re: jungjedi]
    #5901662 - 07/26/06 11:16 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

You could call a regular star a proton star, protons being hydrogen nuclei :smile:

Disregarding anything that resembles detail you could say that a star combines two of these:

Prot + Prot --> Neutron

With two protons to yield the overall reaction:

6 H --> 1 He + energy

And from there on, Chemistry begins :smile:


Sending a vessel for a slingshot ride around a neutron star and actually escaping would be NASA's wet dream :wink:
At escape velocity 150.000km/s that'll be quite a shove!

Interesting factoid: if you drop an atomic bomb onto a neutron star it would slam onto its surface so hard that you couldn't even tell if the bomb went off or not. A lump of sugar would hit a neutron star with a bang as hard as the atom bomb on heroshima. 


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: The properties of Neutron [Re: Asante]
    #5902396 - 07/26/06 04:50 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Sending a vessel for a slingshot ride around a neutron star and actually escaping would be NASA's wet dream
At escape velocity 150.000km/s that'll be quite a shove!


Actually, that won't work.

The 'slingshot' maneuver used to accelerate probes takes advantage of the momentum of a planet around the sun. The probe passes by behind the planet very close but far enough away that it doesn't get trapped. By doing this, it drags down the planet slightly and takes away some of its momentum.

Due to the huge difference in mass, the slight deceleration of the planet equals a huge acceleration of the less massive probe.

Flinging a probe at a neutron star (or any other relatively stationary object like the sun) will accelerate the probe on the way in, then decelerate it by the same amount on the way out and the net sum is (very close to) zero.

Edit: That is unless you meant an orbiting or otherwise moving neutron star.  :wink:


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Edited by Diploid (07/26/06 04:59 PM)


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