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Offlinekillalaz
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Still no sign of germination or mycellum
    #5886399 - 07/22/06 01:32 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Hey guys I inoculated 7 days ago using popcorn tek. The only thing I see in the jar is some moisture and that is it. I am afraid that I either got bad spores or maybe there is too much moisture? Either way I am not seeing any sign that anything is going on. I know that I should be patient so I am asking you, the experts what I should do. I have ordered spores from one of the shroomery recommended places that should be coming any day in case I have to try again. Also what does a typical spore syringe look like? For example is the liquid clear? Should there be anything visable in the water etc..


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Offlinekillalaz
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Re: Still no sign of germination or mycellum [Re: killalaz]
    #5886447 - 07/22/06 01:52 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I just wanted to add that I have already searched the forums and have found relevant material but nothing that really answers my exact question. I have my jar in a home made incubator that is around 85 degrees as well. Can someone please help me!


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Invisibleliamtheloser
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Re: Still no sign of germination or mycellum [Re: killalaz]
    #5886460 - 07/22/06 01:59 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Ok, popcorn is one of the worst grains to use, EVER!

Moisture content is a popular problem with popcorn, so is bacterial contamination, among a load of other things.

A typical spore syringe is crystal clear, there doesn't HAVE to be anything visible, but sometimes if you look really hard on a white background (hold white paper behind it), you can see little purple-blackish dots... those are spore CLUMPS, but usually syringes are crystal clear.

I'd give your jar another week, if it hasnt started colonizing by then, throw it out and start over and next time use WBS or rye... or hey, how about PFtek, since that's what a beginner is supposed to do anyways.


--------------------


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Offlinekillalaz
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Re: Still no sign of germination or mycellum [Re: liamtheloser]
    #5886466 - 07/22/06 02:02 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah I know, I am waiting for my supplies to come so I can start the PF tek method and a friend of mine had suggested this way so I figured I would give it a shot. Thanks for the advice though and I love your sig clerks rules!


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Offlinehawksapprentice
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Re: Still no sign of germination or mycellum [Re: killalaz]
    #5886467 - 07/22/06 02:02 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I disagree that the typical syringe is crystal clear. Any syringe I have ever recieved from a shroomery sponsor has had clumps of spore in it that are visible without holding it up to a sheet of paper.

When I make a syringe for myself i make it pretty fucking dark.


--------------------
"I celebrate the Earth, my home, my mother, my grave, and as long as men are Man they must, if they would preserve the integrated being, do the same---[and preserve]--this rank casual hungry smelly sweaty lusting transitory body, my oozy pulpy liquid-bag-swollen body, bones, blood, hair glands, my bejeweled sex; I love and celebrate it all.  never to let men forget that they are animals as much as gods---that is one thing I shall say."

  Edward Abbey


Edited by hawksapprentice (07/22/06 02:05 AM)


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Offlinehawksapprentice
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Re: Still no sign of germination or mycellum [Re: hawksapprentice]
    #5886471 - 07/22/06 02:07 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Also, you don't have to start out with the PF tek. Grains are just as easy as the PF tek is. Use Magash's RYE tek, and case. I never started with PF, and see no reason to start there either. I also went straight to casing, so don't be afraid of the so called advanced methods.


--------------------
"I celebrate the Earth, my home, my mother, my grave, and as long as men are Man they must, if they would preserve the integrated being, do the same---[and preserve]--this rank casual hungry smelly sweaty lusting transitory body, my oozy pulpy liquid-bag-swollen body, bones, blood, hair glands, my bejeweled sex; I love and celebrate it all.  never to let men forget that they are animals as much as gods---that is one thing I shall say."

  Edward Abbey


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Offlinekillalaz
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Re: Still no sign of germination or mycellum [Re: hawksapprentice]
    #5886512 - 07/22/06 02:31 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

thanks for the info hawks, yeah I have seen pics of other people syringes and they were almost brown. All I could see when held up to the light was maybe some cloudy stuff floating around? I dunno I got a syringe today that has big clumps in it and I have others coming from a sponsored site of the shroomery. I am still going to wait a week and see what happens though and I am waiting for the rest of the jars that I ordered to come in the mail anyway I couldnt find any of those 1/2 jars around here.

EDIT: Oh and another question for IAMTHELOSER, aren't you supposed to experiment with what works for your strain and situation? I didn't know there was any one tek that you were supposed to use. I was under the impression that certain teks work better for certain people and it is largely a personal matter correct me if I am wrong.


Edited by killalaz (07/22/06 02:48 AM)


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Offlinehawksapprentice
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Re: Still no sign of germination or mycellum [Re: killalaz]
    #5886576 - 07/22/06 03:11 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Your right in the fact that a lot of the times different teks work better for different people. But whole grains are going to give you phenomenally better results than PF tek, period.


And you should see no tek that works better with different strains of cubensis than others.


If your moving into things like cyans and azures, then yes you need teks that are designed to grow those types of mushrooms.


--------------------
"I celebrate the Earth, my home, my mother, my grave, and as long as men are Man they must, if they would preserve the integrated being, do the same---[and preserve]--this rank casual hungry smelly sweaty lusting transitory body, my oozy pulpy liquid-bag-swollen body, bones, blood, hair glands, my bejeweled sex; I love and celebrate it all.  never to let men forget that they are animals as much as gods---that is one thing I shall say."

  Edward Abbey


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Still no sign of germination or mycellum [Re: hawksapprentice]
    #5886613 - 07/22/06 03:32 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

> thanks for the info hawks

Watch out for this guy. He'll dispute the CDC, WHO, AND Dr. Bob all at once, without a shred of evidence, and when you tell him he's wrong he'll prove his maturity and wisdom by giving you a shit rating.

There's a reason that noobs are advised to start with the PF tek. If you ignore that advice you stand a good chance of finding out why it's given.


-FF


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Invisibleliamtheloser
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Re: Still no sign of germination or mycellum [Re: fastfred]
    #5886635 - 07/22/06 03:43 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

listen to me, i'm smart and have huge gonads, much larger than the average human.

do the PFtek, you wont be sorry. Or you can do grains and probably regret the wasted time. It's obvious you haven't read all that much, since you don't know what a spore syringe can look like, but hey, it's all a part of learning, and once you do the pftek, and see what all the different steps of growing look like and you know what to expect from mycellium and see the different stages of fruiting, you'll be ready and able to do wbs (or FF's favorite, RYE).

And if you feel like you want to fasttrack casing, you can always crumble your PF cakes and case those. You don't have that option if you do popcorn or whatever else you were going to do (unless you were going to do rye cakes).

SO. If you want to have mushrooms, and have fun, and enjoy your time doing things, I'd go with PF tek. If you want to be frustrated and post a lot of stupid questions about possible contams and freaking out about strange looking myc or asking if a jar is 100% colonized, or all the other 100s of noob questions that get asked every time someone does grains their first grow, then do grains and be upset.

Listen to me, I'm the smartest man alive, and I have huge gonads. And at the moment I also have a giant erection due to pressure on my prostate caused by the massive bolus of quesadillas I have to go shit out now.

Tootles!


--------------------


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Invisibleliamtheloser
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Re: Still no sign of germination or mycellum [Re: liamtheloser]
    #5886645 - 07/22/06 03:47 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

>> 'You don't have that option if you do popcorn or whatever else you were going to do (unless you were going to do rye cakes).'

i meant you don't have the option of fruiting on the cake... not you dont have the option of casing, sorry... thought i'd clear that up, i'm tired, drunk and have to poop really really bad.


--------------------


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Offlinehawksapprentice
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Re: Still no sign of germination or mycellum [Re: fastfred]
    #5886677 - 07/22/06 04:01 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Way to bring something up that happened almost 2 years ago man, and I'm the one who is immature.

Besides your comments are a bit off topic.


Anyways, PF tek is overrated. I have seen many people have plenty of problems with that tek as I have with others. Do what you think you would want to go with. Don't be scared away from other teks because someone says there difficult.


--------------------
"I celebrate the Earth, my home, my mother, my grave, and as long as men are Man they must, if they would preserve the integrated being, do the same---[and preserve]--this rank casual hungry smelly sweaty lusting transitory body, my oozy pulpy liquid-bag-swollen body, bones, blood, hair glands, my bejeweled sex; I love and celebrate it all.  never to let men forget that they are animals as much as gods---that is one thing I shall say."

  Edward Abbey


Edited by hawksapprentice (07/22/06 06:51 AM)


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Still no sign of germination or mycellum [Re: hawksapprentice]
    #5886913 - 07/22/06 07:47 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

> Way to bring something up that happened almost 2 years ago man

2 years ago, 20 minutes ago... you're still giving out bad advice. At least it's not about a life-threatening health issue this time.

You seem to like telling people to ignore all the conventional wisdom and just follow whatever it is that you're telling them at the moment. At least nobody's in danger of dying from it this time.

I just wanted to point out that it's useless to argue with you because even if I had direct links to the CDC's, WHO's, and Dr. Bob's websites and they all said that PF Tek has a MUCH higher success rate for noobs vs any other method, it wouldn't matter! You'd still keep giving out the same bad advice, and if I showed you your error by posting a link to an authoritative source, you'd just give me a shit rating and call me names.

I'm not trying to be a dick, just letting everyone know what kind of a person this "advice" is coming from so that they can better decide whether to listen to you, or not.

If you want to listen to someone who disputes the WHO, CDC, and Dr. Bob on health issues that he knows nothing about then go ahead. I've already done my good deed for the day and can now rest easy.


-FF


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Offlinehawksapprentice
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Re: Still no sign of germination or mycellum [Re: fastfred]
    #5886933 - 07/22/06 08:15 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

1. Sounds like someone needs to read the rules of this forum.


2. I went straight to this tek with no issues whatsoever, and have seen many do the same with out issue.


3. Chill the fuck out.


--------------------
"I celebrate the Earth, my home, my mother, my grave, and as long as men are Man they must, if they would preserve the integrated being, do the same---[and preserve]--this rank casual hungry smelly sweaty lusting transitory body, my oozy pulpy liquid-bag-swollen body, bones, blood, hair glands, my bejeweled sex; I love and celebrate it all.  never to let men forget that they are animals as much as gods---that is one thing I shall say."

  Edward Abbey


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Still no sign of germination or mycellum [Re: hawksapprentice]
    #5886971 - 07/22/06 08:42 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

> Ok, popcorn is one of the worst grains to use, EVER!

I haven't used it so I'm not the best to give popcorn advice, but I can tell you from reading other's posts that popcorn and WBS have pretty high failure rates.

Hard shelled grains are not very good for germinating spores.

It can take 10 days for spores to germinate though, so I wouldn't give up just yet.

As far as what spore syringes should look like... There seems to be some very strong opinions both ways on that issue. My opinion is that more spores = darker syringes = better. Others think that perfectly clear syringes are better. If you get a perfectly clear syringe though, it's a crapshoot. You have no way of telling if there are even any spores in it unless you scope it or use it and find out.

Since it seems that you've jumped ahead to the more advanced teks and already had a taste of defeat because of it, I would recommend reading up on the PF tek and trying that. It's far easier and has a far greater chance of success.

Others might advise you to continue beating your head against the harder teks until you succeed, but I'd rather see you succeed sooner rather than later.


-FF


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InvisibleSpookerShroom
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Re: Still no sign of germination or mycellum [Re: fastfred]
    #5887054 - 07/22/06 09:43 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

liam I was waiting for you to tell him to go to shroom school!! lol

As for popcorn, I've been through about 150 jars now, and I've never had a problem with any contams or moisture problems....although I follow my own specs and not any of the teks on here. But hey some grains just work for some people, while others dont work at all.....who knows!! Not saying there arn't other grains that are better.

I think the noob should start with the PFtek simply because it teaches patience and there is a little less chance of problems becuase the spawning to sub. step is skipped.....Can't really say I followed that rule though the first grow I accomplished was wbs to Hpoo bulk.

Give that PF tek a try when you get your stuff......and oh yea, more than once It took me 10 days to see some growth in my popcorn from a multispore inoc.....so give it a bit more time.


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Offlinetonyperez420
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Re: Still no sign of germination or mycellum [Re: killalaz]
    #5887067 - 07/22/06 09:51 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

killalaz said:
Hey guys I inoculated 7 days ago using popcorn tek. The only thing I see in the jar is some moisture and that is it. I am afraid that I either got bad spores or maybe there is too much moisture? Either way I am not seeing any sign that anything is going on. I know that I should be patient so I am asking you, the experts what I should do. I have ordered spores from one of the shroomery recommended places that should be coming any day in case I have to try again. Also what does a typical spore syringe look like? For example is the liquid clear? Should there be anything visable in the water etc..




where did you get your syringe killa?


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InvisibleTippinthru
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Re: Still no sign of germination or mycellum [Re: liamtheloser]
    #5887135 - 07/22/06 10:27 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I would think, (if you have a PC?), that using a few ml's of a spore syringe, to make an healthy LC, once done inoculate PC'ed rye grain jars, once colonized, then crumble the rye grain into the small GLAD oven-ware trays (with lids), once re-colonized then add a casing mix would be a quick simple method, to get a few small trays of shrooms.

Just my $0.02 cents.


--------------------
Perfection is attained by slow degrees; it requires the hand of time...
[


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Re: Still no sign of germination or mycellum [Re: fastfred]
    #5887175 - 07/22/06 10:47 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Sorry Fred, but I'd have to agree with Hawk. If you follow the teks involving whole grains on this website correctly, you shouldn't have problems. I think think when people say that the PF tek is for newbie's that what they really should say is that it's for people without a PC. Anyone who follows the proven teks here to a "T" should NOT have any problems. I would recommend Magash's rye tek to start. His tek, done according to the directions, is just about fail-proof. I think the problems people have with WBS and other whole grains is not following directions completely and shotty sterile procedures. As someone who has (obviously) been growing for awhile, do you really believe that working with whole grains is any harder than the PF tek? I know I don't.


--------------------

Quick WBS Prep


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Re: Still no sign of germination or mycellum [Re: liamtheloser]
    #5887186 - 07/22/06 10:52 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Just wanted to add:

I agree on popcorn sucking, for me anyway. I had alot of luck using it awhile ago, but lately I just can't get it right. It seems to dry out fairly fast and the grains don't colonize very quick. I've been sticking to WBS. It's cheap and it works well for me.


--------------------

Quick WBS Prep


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Offlinestormhalter
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Re: Still no sign of germination or mycellum [Re: FooMan]
    #5887192 - 07/22/06 10:54 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I'd like to say I started out on the PF Tek method, and I have to agree with Fred. When you learn how to swim, you don't jump into the deep end. You start shallow and walk your way there and learn to swim so you don't drown.

My PF Tek is going splendid and I'm excited that I get to learn Mycology from the ground up. I have a chance to witness the growth process and know what to look for, as Iamtheloser had mentioned.

Stay basic and work your way up man. Einstein didn't jump straight to the atom bomb, he worked his way towards it. (:


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Invisibleliamtheloser
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Re: Still no sign of germination or mycellum [Re: stormhalter]
    #5887237 - 07/22/06 11:16 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

As I've said before, I'm extremely brilliant and have gigantic huevos.

I recommended the PFtek, because this person obviously hasn't read up too much on cultivating mushrooms. 

The PFtek is the best tek to get your feet wet in (kinda ties into your swimming analogy).  If I hadn't been doing pftek for several years before even knowing about whole grains and spawning and casing, I would probably have really wanted to do grains first, but I would have shit all over myself and regretted every second of it... My first time on grains was bad enough :frown:  I had so many questions to ask, but no one to ask them to, then I found this place and while my first set of grains was failing, I was reading NONSTOP all the grain teks, all the spawning teks, all the casing teks, all the FAQs, etc etc.  And I was already an experienced PF caker.

So all I have to say, is if you want to be happy for the rest of your life... never make a pretty woman your wife.  So from my personal point of view, get an ugly chick to marry you.

Amen.


Oh, and stormhalter:  'Einstein didn't jump straight to the atom bomb' ->  Killaz is no einstein... but I am!


--------------------


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Re: Still no sign of germination or mycellum [Re: stormhalter]
    #5887239 - 07/22/06 11:19 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

stormhalter said:
I'd like to say I started out on the PF Tek method, and I have to agree with Fred.  When you learn how to swim, you don't jump into the deep end.  You start shallow and walk your way there and learn to swim so you don't drown.

My PF Tek is going splendid and I'm excited that I get to learn Mycology from the ground up.  I have a chance to witness the growth process and know what to look for, as Iamtheloser had mentioned.

Stay basic and work your way up man.  Einstein didn't jump straight to the atom bomb, he worked his way towards it. (:




So basically you are doing your first grow and giving out advice on what not to do when you have no experience with it your self? :rolleyes:

I agree you have to walk before you run. You should also try something before advising others against it.


--------------------

Quick WBS Prep


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Offlinestormhalter
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Re: Still no sign of germination or mycellum [Re: FooMan]
    #5887347 - 07/22/06 12:08 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Well FooMan, some advice is better than none.

I was simply sharing my experiences so far with another first time grower, and letting him know that it is not a bad idea (as it has not been for me so far) to start from the ground up. He was advised to avoid the PF Tek which is a basic foundation of growing and can teach you much, as opposed to jumping straight to casing.

So I'd appreciate it if you relaxed off me, thanks. (:


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Re: Still no sign of germination or mycellum [Re: stormhalter]
    #5889267 - 07/22/06 11:06 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Saying the advanced teks are as easy as the PF tek is like saying that calculus is as easy as algebra.

If you gave me one of those gay ass width of a sidewalk around a basketball court problems I could solve it far easier with calculus than with algebra. But that's after a year of college level math. A noob would be stuck using the guess and check method, while I would write the equation, find the derivative and then solve for X. I would be able to find the answer much quicker and more easily, but I don't think many people would say that calculus is easier than algebra.


-FF


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Offlinehawksapprentice
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Re: Still no sign of germination or mycellum [Re: fastfred]
    #5889557 - 07/23/06 01:43 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Well it really isn't related to a guess and check method whatsoever. There are teks that spell out exactly how to do grains. And Rye is a great grain to go with.


People in this thread are saying that grains are harder. Why? Because of moisture content? You can mess that up just as easily in PF tek. As stated earlier, it seems most people have trouble with grains because they don't follow the tek to a "T". Just as you should follow a PF tek to the "T".


All these analogies are fairly pointless. If this guy just sticks to the teks, does them exactly he should have no problems. Sure it's possible that he could have some issues, but the chances are the same if he uses PF. It's all perspective, if you believe that you are going to fail, then you are just setting yourself up for failure and will more than likely. Have some confidence I'm your self and your ability to follow directions.


You guys act like he wont be able to follow directions well. I say go with what you feel you can accomplish. If that's PF cool, go for it. But if you think that you have the comprehension to follow some direction exactly and don't deviate from them, you should do just fine.


--------------------
"I celebrate the Earth, my home, my mother, my grave, and as long as men are Man they must, if they would preserve the integrated being, do the same---[and preserve]--this rank casual hungry smelly sweaty lusting transitory body, my oozy pulpy liquid-bag-swollen body, bones, blood, hair glands, my bejeweled sex; I love and celebrate it all.  never to let men forget that they are animals as much as gods---that is one thing I shall say."

  Edward Abbey


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Still no sign of germination or mycellum [Re: hawksapprentice]
    #5889612 - 07/23/06 02:22 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

> the chances are the same if he uses PF.

No, a noobs chances are MUCH better with the PF tek. One of the main reasons is that there are many less steps, and several fewer points where contamination can occur.

> You guys act like he wont be able to follow directions well.

It's not like you're telling someone that if they've done a lot of reading and have a good understanding of everything they're reading and have read a lot of posts and understand the pitfalls that they can skip the PF tek. You're telling someone who has already attempted and probably failed a harder tek.

If were trying to tell someone that they can "get away with" skipping the PF tek that would be one thing. But to tell people that it's better to skip it is just plain foolish.


-FF


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Re: Still no sign of germination or mycellum [Re: fastfred]
    #5889639 - 07/23/06 02:39 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

> And Rye is a great grain to go with.

That's true.

> Well it really isn't related to a guess and check method whatsoever.

I wasn't comparing anything to the guess and check method, I was comparing calculus and algebra to advanced teks vs. PF tek. I wasn't trying to say that either one was like a guess-and-check method. My point was that you can argue that calculus is easier and actually have a good point, but it only applies after you've learned algebra AND calculus.

For example if you and I both tried to solve the sidewalk around a basketball court problem using guess and check algebra we would probably take about the same time and have about the same chance of getting the right answer. [Granted that's being very generous in my analysis of your math skills] On the other hand if we both tried to use calculus I would quickly have the answer while you would fail completely to achieve any answer at all. If we were to pit my calculus against your algebra, I would solve the problem more easily, but you would likely get the same answer just with more difficulty.

That makes the perfect analogy to the PF tek vs bulk grain teks. You would be far more likely to solve the problem by reading an algebra book than you would be by reading a calculus book. You might be able to read a calculus book and get the right answer, but it's not as likely. While you can read all you want about calculus, I've actually done calculus and would get the right answer, while you would only have a chance of getting the right answer.

Now, the point of this is not to diss your math skills. I'm only assuming that you aren't a calculus master for the sake of argument. You may well be better at math than me, so don't take this post as an insult to your math prowess.


-FF


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Invisibleliamtheloser
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Re: Still no sign of germination or mycellum [Re: fastfred]
    #5889654 - 07/23/06 02:51 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I'm not exactly sure if I've said this yet... but I am smart... REALLY smart. And I have giant testicles. If you follow my advice, and ignore all of this arguing, you WILL be satisfied.

Do the PFtek, master the art of noob growing, and then jump into the river of grains. Seriously, I have the biggest balls of anyone I know, and I _STILL_ did the pftek for a long time. That _HAS_ to say something. Don't get me wrong, I love grains, all sorts of them... In my cereal, in my bread, in my substrate. But please, save everyone a lot of trouble and do the PFtek. You wont be disappointed.

I did cakes every once in a while for a few years, just for the fun of it, and it just so happened that a cake could get me high a couple times... That was fine for me. That should be fine for anyone just starting out, because obviously you aren't going to be able to grow mushrooms to supply your entire city if you're just starting out... and frankly, I'd be quite disappointed if that were your goal in the first place. For someone who wants to have a good time, the PFtek will provide everything you ever wished. Grains to bulk is for someone who not only wants to get themselves lifted, but also a few close friends. I started going bulk because I want to do more work, less time, and less frequently. IE, I get 30 doses instead of 3, and I only have to do it for a month out of the year...

All of this back and forth shit between hawknuts and fastfloosie are getting my panties wrinkled pretty hard. Seriously, I have gigantic nuts and I'm not afraid to use them. Also my brain is large too.

-- L-i am the loser.


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Still no sign of germination or mycellum [Re: liamtheloser]
    #5889669 - 07/23/06 03:00 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

> I have the biggest balls of anyone I know,

> I did cakes every once in a while for a few years, just for the fun of it,


I think maybe those "huevos grande" have gone to your head and distorted your sense of time. Weren't you just jumping for joy about your first PF tek grow about a month or two ago?

> Grains to bulk is for someone who not only wants to get themselves lifted, but also a few close friends.

Yeah, like 50 of your very closest friends.

Seriously, I like your posts, but you might want to have those big balls checked out. It might be some sort of glandular problem.


-FF


--------------------
It drinks the alcohol and abstains from the weed or else it gets the hose again. -Chemy

The difference between the substances doesn't matter. This is a war on consciousness, on our right to the very essence of what we are. With no control over that, we have no need to speak of freedom or a free society. -fireseed

"If we are going to have a war on marijuana, the least we can do is pull the sick and the dying off the battlefield." -Neal Levine (MPP)

I find the whole "my drug should be legal but yours should be illegal" mindset disgusting and hypocritical. It's what George Bush and company do when they drink a cocktail and debate the best way to imprison marijuana users. -Diploid


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Invisibleliamtheloser
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Re: Still no sign of germination or mycellum [Re: fastfred]
    #5889670 - 07/23/06 03:03 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

nope, i was jumping for joy about my first GRAIN->CASING about a month ago


PS. my glands are fine, they're just really huge and manly.



PSS the way i got into the whole mushroom cult thing is through an old dirty fucking hippie bastard mentor. He swore up and down about his methods, only I found a website (the shroomery) that totally bested his most advanced methods (which turned out to be called PF tek). Ever since then, i've totally sworn off cakes and have switched to all grain.

But hey! whatevs :P


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Offlinehawksapprentice
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Re: Still no sign of germination or mycellum [Re: liamtheloser]
    #5889770 - 07/23/06 05:33 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I'm done arguing with you.



Man, do what you feel comfortable with. If you want to do PF do PF. If you want to stick with grains do it, and do it to the "T".


--------------------
"I celebrate the Earth, my home, my mother, my grave, and as long as men are Man they must, if they would preserve the integrated being, do the same---[and preserve]--this rank casual hungry smelly sweaty lusting transitory body, my oozy pulpy liquid-bag-swollen body, bones, blood, hair glands, my bejeweled sex; I love and celebrate it all.  never to let men forget that they are animals as much as gods---that is one thing I shall say."

  Edward Abbey


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InvisibleUnderNose
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Re: Still no sign of germination or mycellum [Re: hawksapprentice]
    #5889775 - 07/23/06 05:43 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

grain rules,
I've had 99% success rate with grain, my first grow was cased grain which got me over 200 dry grams of Z-strain.
Now in the process of Grain spawned to bulk enriched coir.(I don't have any poo:glittershitz::sad: )

I tried cakes once, just looked like what you would do if you had no space or supplies.
IMO not enough shroom, not enough control over nutrients.


--------------------
LAGM 2.022

:dna::dna:


Edited by UnderNose (07/23/06 06:05 AM)


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Invisiblebaltazar
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Re: Still no sign of germination or mycellum [Re: UnderNose]
    #5889782 - 07/23/06 06:01 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

IMO popcorn worked allways very well


Edited by baltazar (06/21/11 02:45 AM)


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InvisibleFooMan
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Re: Still no sign of germination or mycellum [Re: stormhalter]
    #5889815 - 07/23/06 07:15 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

stormhalter said:
Well FooMan, some advice is better than none.

I was simply sharing my experiences so far with another first time grower, and letting him know that it is not a bad idea (as it has not been for me so far) to start from the ground up.  He was advised to avoid the PF Tek which is a basic foundation of growing and can teach you much, as opposed to jumping straight to casing.

So I'd appreciate it if you relaxed off me, thanks. (:




No advice? I gave mine. Listen up rookie, my point is you're doing your FIRST grow and saying, "well, I agree with Fred... blah, blah, blah" when the fact is you have NO experience with grains. How the fuck are you going to recommend the PF tek over using grains when you've never used grains before? Then you say "well I'm learning from the ground up"- Bullshit! Guess what? Myc growing in a jar of WBS it the same as myc growing in a PF jar, so the idea that the PF tek is better for learning the growth process has no merit.

That's great that the PF tek is working good for you :smile: It worked great for me too! My point is that whole grains are just as easy to work with, especially when spawned to a bulk substrate and will OWN the PF tek. How do I know this? I've done it and can give an informed opinion. (check gallery for some credentials).

It's disappointing to see Fred comparing using grains to calculus and making them seem like rocket science.  This is why newbs, like YOU fear using grains their first go around. Again, if you follow directions, grains are very easy.

Stormy, I'll relax off you now.... until you start spouting off about shit you know nothing about again. :grin:


--------------------

Quick WBS Prep


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Offlinekillalaz
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Re: Still no sign of germination or mycellum [Re: stormhalter]
    #5910237 - 07/28/06 09:51 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

stormhalter said:
I'd like to say I started out on the PF Tek method, and I have to agree with Fred. When you learn how to swim, you don't jump into the deep end. You start shallow and walk your way there and learn to swim so you don't drown.

My PF Tek is going splendid and I'm excited that I get to learn Mycology from the ground up. I have a chance to witness the growth process and know what to look for, as Iamtheloser had mentioned.

Stay basic and work your way up man. Einstein didn't jump straight to the atom bomb, he worked his way towards it. (:




Einstein didn't actually make an atom bomb but that is besides the point. =] Thanks for all your advice guys I have decided to go ahead and do the PF tek I got 3 jars incubating right now and I am waiting on my new spore order (from ralphster) to do the rest. Since I still had some popcorn left I made one jar with popcorn just for fun! hehe I figured it coudln't hurt right? Anyway I agree that it is probably best to start from the ground up and learn the intricicies of the hobby. I have to say that besides the obvious result of magical fungus at the end this is a great hobby that teaches pateince and how to deal with dissapointment! Just another gift from the fungi gods!


EDIT: Can you not do the growing methods in the PF TEK exactly the same except subsitute grain for BRF?? This is what I have heard and I am considering using a grain based substrate for my second grow? Correct me if I am wrong because that is why I joined the shroomery to learn, not to pretend I am an expert.


Edited by killalaz (07/28/06 09:56 PM)


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Still no sign of germination or mycellum [Re: killalaz]
    #5910407 - 07/28/06 10:31 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

> Can you not do the growing methods in the PF TEK exactly the same except subsitute grain for BRF?

Sure you can. Grain cakes probably won't hold together was well as BRF/verm though. It's also not as easy to fruit directly from grains since they retain nutrition longer into the growing cycle, hence the myc still has food and won't want to fruit as easily until it thinks it's consumed all the nutrients.

> My point is that whole grains are just as easy to work with,

Then your "point" is wrong. Grains are not as easy as PF tek because there are more steps involved and more chances for contamination, misunderstanding, errors, and failure. don't know why people keep trying to say that grains are just as easy as PF tek when they obviously aren't.

Your ripping on stormhalter is way out of line. Anyone who has read the PF tek and a grain tek is fully qualified to comment on which one is easier even if they've never grown anything at all before. A simple examination of the procedures will quickly show even a total noob which method is easier.

There are also dozens if not hundreds of grain teks, where as there is only one true PF tek. That simplifies things a lot right off the bat, before you even take a look at any of the teks. PF tek has also been time tested longer than any other tek and by more people.

If you want to get down to it and debate each and every step of the procedure and the chances for problems at each step then I will, but I think you already realize that the PF tek is simpler, easier, and more standardized than any other tek out there.

It's also plenty fine to just state your opinion and then debate facts and arguments or just move along. There's no call to start ripping on people and attacking their credentials.


-FF


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OfflineKaptKid
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Re: Still no sign of germination or mycellum [Re: killalaz]
    #5910606 - 07/28/06 11:25 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

killalaz said:
EDIT:  Can you not do the growing methods in the PF TEK exactly the same except subsitute grain for BRF??  This is what I have heard and I am considering using a grain based substrate for my second grow?  Correct me if I am wrong because that is why I joined the shroomery to learn, not to pretend I am an expert.




You can use other grains to make flours in a coffee grinder. I've had very good success with rye grass seed.


:sun:


--------------------
Child of the 60's, Tripping ever since.


:sun:


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Offlinehawksapprentice
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Re: Still no sign of germination or mycellum [Re: fastfred]
    #5910925 - 07/29/06 01:37 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

fastfred said:


It's also plenty fine to just state your opinion and then debate facts and arguments or just move along. There's no call to start ripping on people and attacking their credentials.


-FF





Take your own advice.


--------------------
"I celebrate the Earth, my home, my mother, my grave, and as long as men are Man they must, if they would preserve the integrated being, do the same---[and preserve]--this rank casual hungry smelly sweaty lusting transitory body, my oozy pulpy liquid-bag-swollen body, bones, blood, hair glands, my bejeweled sex; I love and celebrate it all.  never to let men forget that they are animals as much as gods---that is one thing I shall say."

  Edward Abbey


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