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Offlinekotik
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Re: Tackling the salvia beast. [Re: psychout]
    #5892696 - 07/24/06 12:44 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

i don't know about the rest of you here, but personally, I have had intense open-eye experiences with salvia, and I have also put the tolerance b.s. to rest.

whether you just tripped an hour ago, or 4 days ago, there is no effect, salvia will still work, and it will work just as well, regardless of how much you have already done that day, week or etc.


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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Invisibletruekimbo2
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Re: Tackling the salvia beast. [Re: kotik]
    #5893589 - 07/24/06 07:11 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

interesting kotik described exactly what i do.

i have never let the salvia entities take me anywhere. instead, i smoke it, and then proceed to have stuporous outloud conversations with myself (then i try to explain to the poeple around me that i'm "not really that high. this always turns into a joke for me, trying to say that i'm still in reality while having yelled conversations with non-physical drug beings...)

i quit awhile ago, but i was working on getting the salvia to understand that i can't understand its language, and it appears less pleased to use my own. i've been working on a middle ground.

i've found smoking salvia while tripping on mushrooms totally solves the problem of salvia bizzareness. the mushrooms let both parties communicate in a common language.

also i think what poeple mean by breakthrough, is smoking enough that you're no longer in normal reality at all, which would not be the same as smoking alot.


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Offlinekotik
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Re: Tackling the salvia beast. [Re: truekimbo2]
    #5893746 - 07/24/06 09:36 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

to me, "breakthrough" is complete ego loss, which usually results in me turning into different objects, such as a ball of energy, a cereal box, a sit-and-spin, a car and etc. And all the while, you know that you are the car (or whatever). Or in some other peoples case, talking to aliens, but at the time it doesn't seem strange at all.

This compared to "feeling funny" or "being pulled" which are really just very tiny effects that serve as precursor to the real thing (breakthrough). A breakthrough will have you reevaluating your entire life, and perspective of the world. If you smoke salvia, and don't feel something like that afterwords, I would be so bold as to say, you haven't had a breakthrough.


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Offlinemellowrubberduck
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Re: Tackling the salvia beast. [Re: kotik]
    #5893772 - 07/24/06 09:51 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

In all the times I've smoked salvia I've always done it with open eyes (never even thought about it until I read it on here). One hit of 10x will cause a vibration throughout my body, a *gravity* pulling me to the left or right, the left side of my vision will bend and move off its axis and then my whole field of vision spins slowly. The second hit (eyes open mind you) makes everything melt, then in an instant the environment will change to a ridiculous scene. Each *breakthrough* is usually based off the last thing a person around me says (by myself, just some random shit). For example, my brother asked me if I felt like I was spinning, and that triggered the scene change and I was on a dinner plate sitting with one leg off the side with my brother in front of me, and we were pushing it with our one leg like a merry-go-round.

I still say people are smoking these high amounts of salvia because they use the wrong technique. One person may have gotten shit salvia (as hard to believe as I find it), but twenty different people? The next couple days I should be getting three more grams of salvia 10x, and I will close my eyes and see what all the fuss is about (open eyed worked great for me though) and I'm open to new experiences.


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Tackling the salvia beast. [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5893784 - 07/24/06 10:01 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

A strong dose of salvia can, with open eyes, sometimes do little more than make you very dizzy and laugh out loud and feel silly, whereas half of that amount with closed eyes can completely take you to faraway lands.
.
I've gotten [too] intense open eyed hallucinations before. It doesn't seem uncommon at all, as long as you smoke it correctly.





The key word here is sometimes.
Sometimes you can be very much under the influence, but held in a state of normalcy that manages to remain despite the enormous turmoil under the surface. Yiou can be waaay higher than you realize, your "normalcy" a liferaft adrift in a sea of Salvia.

A big part of the Salvia experience is letting it happen. In my view this shouldn't be overcome by higher doses, but rather by increasing surrender.

You can turn into objects and be absorbed into another world by moderate doses. The key is to make it unfold without prejudice and, again, closing your eyes.

And modest doses which usually with open eyes give little more than dizzyness and laughter almost invariably are completely compelling if you close your eyes and open your mind.

Even a same dose can be vastly different in intensity between one time or another. I don't think the "reverse tolerance" is something biological, but rather psychological.

You learn to open your mind for Salvia, so that it doesn't have to smash the gates to come in.

This holds the promise that you'll need less salvia if you "learn" the mindstate, and this is exactly my experience. I'm strongly opposeds to towering doses, and much in favor to learning the mindstate on modest doses. Intense open-eye visuals tend to only happen with doses that are very high. People wo do not have a lot of experience with Salvia have no business taking very high doses. This all to often leads to traumatic experiences, and the TONS of negative experience reports.

Learn to swim in the shallow end of the pool and then gradually work towards the deep end.

Visual hallucinations in relatively unexperienced people in my view are bad news, just like letting teenagers fly a jet fighter plane: it is begging for mishap, and 9/10 Salvia threads historically speak of mishap, and blaming it on Salvia rather than dosage and usage.


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Tackling the salvia beast. [Re: mellowrubberduck]
    #5893798 - 07/24/06 10:10 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

One hit of 10x will cause a vibration throughout my body, a *gravity* pulling me to the left or right




You can trip so phuckin' HARD when you are in the realm of gravity pull, if your eyes are closed.

Quote:

Each *breakthrough* is usually based off the last thing a person around me says (by myself, just some random shit).




This is the mental overlap which redgreenvines speaks so fondly of.

Quote:

I will close my eyes and see what all the fuss is about (open eyed worked great for me though)




By all means dose conservatively! To put a label on it: to me it seems that Salvia with closed eyes is "five times as intense" as the same dose is with open eyes.

There can be so much Story that it will be overwhelming, and with you forgetting you closed your eyes, or even that you HAVE eyes, you'll be fully immersed in a hallucinogenic world.

This is learned behavior, you must try closed-eye Salvia several times before you can get the knack of it.

And please, dose carefully!!
Most people hold onto visual reality subconsciously, even if they believe to fully surrender. In darkness and silence, full immersion will be almost unavoidable, even at very modest doses.

By all means tell us what your experiences are.
For me Salvia is strictly a closed-eyes drug: open eyes are wasteful in my view.


I think this snippet drives the point home between open eyes and closed eyes:


Level - 3 "L" stands for LIGHT visionary state. Closed-eye visuals (clear imagery with eyes closed: fractal patterns, vine-like and geometric patterns, visions of objects and designs). The imagery is often two dimensional. If open-eyed visual effects occur, these are usually vague and fleeting. At this level, phenomena similar to the hypnagogic phenomena that some people experience at sleep onset occur. At this level, visions are experienced as "eye candy" but are not confused with reality.

Level - 4 "V" stands for VIVID visionary state. Complex three-dimensional realistic appearing scenes occur. Sometimes voices may be heard. With eyes open, contact with consensual reality will not be entirely lost, but when you close your eyes you may forget about consensus reality and enter completely into a dreamlike scene. Shamanistic journeying to other lands--foreign or imaginary; encounters with beings (entities, spirits) or travels to other ages may occur. You may even live the life of another person. At this level you have entered the shaman's world. Or if you prefer: you are in "dream time." With eyes closed, you experience fantasies (dream like happenings with a story line to them). So long as your eyes are closed you may believe they are really occurring. This differs from the "eye candy" closed-eye imagery, of level 3.



With closed eyes, you can fully enter another reality, and pull the door of consensus reality shut behind you.
With open eyes, your visuals will be a variation on visual reality but with eyes closed in darkness, everything that will occur will come from the other side, unaltered by distortions of the reality the senses experience.


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Edited by Asante (07/24/06 10:18 AM)


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OfflineSDP
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Re: Tackling the salvia beast. [Re: mellowrubberduck]
    #5893809 - 07/24/06 10:21 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Alright... i love foliage, and am scared of extract. Ive had about 40+ ppl smoke extract in front of me, through my generosity. I am obsessed with the salvia experience and the salvia realm. Although ive only had 1 breakthrough (the 1 time i did the 10x about 5 months ago, only smoked foliage sense) i feel compelled to praise my beloved Sally Maria with sacrifices of sacrament to bring spirits to her realm. She helps me w/ her sacraments' anti-depressant effects (i smoke foliage every couple of days). 

A breakthrough is very real and can happen w/ eyes open or close, although it is much eassier to achieve w/ lower doses if the eyes are closed.

Ive found you HAVE to hit it out of a bong w/ a screen for optimal effect (optimal burning + administration)

20x? Prolly isnt standardized. Ive tried 40x from local vendor and it "didnt work" but the standardized 10x from BouncingB makes ppl breakthrough EVERY TIME. I heard iamshaman has dank standardized extracts as well.

Breakthrough? OK. So my first time i was sittin in my chair in front of my computer (on a corner desk). I took a nice bong tip of about enough 10x to cover my thumb nail. I dont remember the exhale. I am no longer anywhere, and i have no memory of my current life. I am fully caught up on whats happening. I am holding on with my hands as im being pulled by my legs (fully pulled, as if im holding on to a ledge being sucked out a window in outer space) through this vortex\portal with these 2 gnomish entities (didnt even KNOW about salvia entities till i after this experience looked up "salvia gnomes" which led me to "salvia elves" and a list of reports) which were calling me by name very excitedly + playful like. I remember never being that scared in my life. I slowly started winning the fight of the pull, and started pulling my feet out of the vortex, which was now a really long archway\cave that closed up. I realize im under my desk, and im holding ontop my keyboard rail.  And that i was physically being pulled "through the wall" through this vortex (i felt + Saw my feet being pulled through this vortex, and my feet were through it, meaning, through the corner of my room). I then stood up, then was pulled back into my wall, and i melded into my wall. Then i was "transported" to this room with 2 windows in front of me and a door to my left, and i was rising through the floor of this room w/ some other objects rising too. I had the DISTINCT feeling that i was gone and here, and i was far away from everything i had ever known, with the DISTINCT feeling that i couldnt go back, and that no one could help me now, not even my parents. I finally came to, stumbled to the other room, and tried to forget what happened (Yea right!)

Since then, a MULTITUDE of people have smoked that extract... about 10% got the "folding in a book of reality" thing, about 10% got various weird "my place in the wheel of existence" thing.. about 50% or so got the feeling of "entities" and "vortex"s with "severe since of being pulled towards this vortex". ALL of which said they felt as if they were being pulled to somewhere else that they didnt go to.

The latest one was fairly interesting, a FOAF smoked some extract and said me + my friend started fading away and these 2 entities were pulling him by his arms through this tunnel telling him "nothing here is real, they arnt real, you cant come back. Come with us, nothing there is real".

The ones before that reported various contacts with gnomish\elvish entities.

I think salvia IS a divine tool for contact, if you choose, to this "realm" of "salvia entities". You have to have the up-most respect for them, and what they do. They play and want you to have a crazy tripped out time (they are spirits that KNOW you are a human on a drug, and like to fuck with you). But they also ("them" and Sally) want to teach you and help you learn... that if nothing else, there is more to this world then what is in front of our eyes.

But its just all in our head right? Spirits arnt real... psychology is Lord, and substances like psilocybin and salvinorin. A just HAPPEN to make these intense experiences like this, and it is just CHANCE that salvia grows basically in one obscure part of the world in Mexico that just HAPPENS to be where mushrooms were most widely used and well known (Oaxaca). But spirituality is just a bad trait right? Bred out through social darwinism until we can finally achieve "pure" humanhood? Riiiiight, smoke some non-bunk salvia 10x after meditating for an hour... lemme know what you think then.  :crazy2:

Meditating for a while, taking a hit, then going right back into meditation as fast as possible works well. Also, the quid, or "dip", method of fresh leaves works well too (even for dry ones). Meditating for about 15-20 minutes, then putting in a quid, and going back into meditation. It will take another 15-30 minutes to kick in, and last for a lot longer then if smoked. GREAT for meditation! It hits you while you are in a deep state (un-disturbed by coming out to hit a bong). Anyway, good luck!  :thumbup: :grin:

-SDP :rastamon:


--------------------
Teonanacatl, open up my eyes
This sacrament, this prayer, beyond the world of lies
Guide me clearly through that which I dont understand
Give me strength to find the path
Help me fight any demons as you flow through me wholely
This is my prayer, that you protect me from evil, and bring me closer to peace
And open up my eyes, so i can see things as you do
Amen


Edited by SDP (07/24/06 10:32 AM)


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Offlineviedub
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Re: Tackling the salvia beast. [Re: SDP]
    #5893896 - 07/24/06 11:37 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

All excellent responses, thank you all for the help. This really means alot to me


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Tackling the salvia beast. [Re: SDP]
    #5893931 - 07/24/06 12:08 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Peace.
What you describe as "breakthrough" sounds like Level-5/"Disembodied Existence", which is no more miraculous froim a pharmacological point of view than taking a lot in a small amount of time.

At the moment I'm IN salviaspace, slightly over the treshold after chewing half a gram of leaf, and at the moment it comes across to me that, like you said, his Salvia 20x likely is a poor product.

Let us unite in our love for Diviner's Sage.

Viedub, you got to get yourself a live plant before the law slams the gate shut. Go to  The Salvia Divinorum Live Plant Marketplace and try to get hooked up, this goes for all who are interested in exploring Salvia.
Get the plant - spread the plant.

The peace of Salvia has overcome me. Every time I chew the leaves, it is clear to me once more that chewing the unaltered leaf is The Way.
Then it slowly rolls over you, lasting 1 to 2 hours, and you can adjust by chewing additional doses.

It would be silly to base "I don't like coffee" on one or two instances where you snorted a line of coffee powder. Coffee has to be drank to be fully appreciated. With the Salvia entheogen this is more so: you got to have had elaborate experience chewing it, before you know it. No asphyxiating quids or mouths full with saliva too, just a nibble here and a nibble there, slowly chewing over the course of 10 minutes, swallowing the saliva when desired.

Ah, the peace :fairy:

Those who only smoke Salvia, and that in high doses, have no idea of the peace that modest chewed doses can bring, and how gently Salvia takes you higher and lower, without the violent jerks up and down you so often get with smoking.

I'm going to drift out for now, fulfill my earthly duties for the day, and it looks like its a night of chewed Salvia for me :heart:


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Invisible905
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Re: Tackling the salvia beast. [Re: Asante]
    #5893941 - 07/24/06 12:15 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

This sucks, My disembodied friends don't want me to
do drugs anymore.I tried salvia and never broke through.
I promised to stop mail ordering magic plants.
Now I am being seduced.

I guess I am hanging in the wrong place.


Edited by 905 (07/24/06 12:16 PM)


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Offlinemellowrubberduck
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Re: Tackling the salvia beast. [Re: 905]
    #5893999 - 07/24/06 12:51 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

If you decide to change your mind and continue to do drugs and your friends abandon you, maybe they weren't true friends? They might think it's the best thing to do so you realize your making a mistake, but if your not slamming heroin and smoking meth, your not doing harm to yourself like they think you are. Maybe explain to them the experiences and the myths, but if they feel the same, I dunno? Good luck with that.

We don't care if you do drugs :laugh:


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Invisible905
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Re: Tackling the salvia beast. [Re: mellowrubberduck]
    #5894030 - 07/24/06 01:08 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

These are entities not humans.
They aren't going to abandon me. They want me to live in my
world not theirs.I told them I will never turn down LSD, shrooms, mesc.
they have accepted that, but they don't want me to do aya.
They said they came to me because I needed
help, and they have helped very much. I know they are always
with me, but want me to be independant.

I wanted to meet the spirits, when I did it was too much to deal with alone.


Edited by 905 (07/24/06 01:13 PM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Tackling the salvia beast. [Re: 905]
    #5894044 - 07/24/06 01:17 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

you can find where you are most comfortable
my pappa always said to me
different strokes for different folks

(also he thought this gave him permission to spank me)


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Offlineastraalialma
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Re: Tackling the salvia beast. [Re: Asante]
    #5894080 - 07/24/06 01:28 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:


A big part of the Salvia experience is letting it happen. In my view this shouldn't be overcome by higher doses, but rather by increasing surrender.
The key is to make it unfold without prejudice and, again, closing your eyes.

And modest doses which usually with open eyes give little more than dizziness and laughter almost invariably are completely compelling if you close your eyes and open your mind.

I don't think the "reverse tolerance" is something biological, but rather psychological.

You learn to open your mind for Salvia, so that it doesn't have to smash the gates to come in.

This holds the promise that you'll need less salvia if you "learn" the mind state, and this is exactly my experience. I'm strongly opposed to towering doses, and much in favor to learning the mind state on modest doses. Intense open-eye visuals tend to only happen with doses that are very high. People who do not have a lot of experience with Salvia have no business taking very high doses. This all to often leads to traumatic experiences, and the TONS of negative experience reports.

Learn to swim in the shallow end of the pool and then gradually work towards the deep end.






:thumbup:

'wOrD!'

Can't really agree more. This text needs to be made clear, hence quote.


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Re: Tackling the salvia beast. [Re: 905]
    #5894097 - 07/24/06 01:32 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

905 said:
These are entities not humans.
They aren't going to abandon me. They want me to live in my
world not theirs.I told them I will never turn down LSD, shrooms, mesc.
they have accepted that, but they don't want me to do aya.
They said they came to me because I needed
help, and they have helped very much. I know they are always
with me, but want me to be independant.

I wanted to meet the spirits, when I did it was too much to deal with alone.




Oh, I feel like an ass.


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Invisible905
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Re: Tackling the salvia beast. [Re: mellowrubberduck]
    #5894126 - 07/24/06 01:48 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Don't feel like an ass. I am beginning to think english
is not my first language.

I feel like a thread hijacker. If I am tell me.
But I thought people who regularly go off to salvialand without fear
could help me.


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Offlineviedub
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Re: Tackling the salvia beast. [Re: 905]
    #5894149 - 07/24/06 01:58 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

This thread delivers the goods.


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Invisible905
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Re: Tackling the salvia beast. [Re: viedub]
    #5894176 - 07/24/06 02:14 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I am moving back into this plane slowly.
I have a yoga lesson this week, and am reading
meditation books.Ram Dass - Be here now, some others.

The Lady who teaches yoga is also a therapist and an ex
VA nurse(Drug abuse exp.).She says it sounds like I have a Zen Master
who smacks my head when I get out of line. This fits
my experience.

I still need to understand the spirit plane.


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Tackling the salvia beast. [Re: Asante]
    #5894775 - 07/24/06 06:00 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Those who only smoke Salvia, and that in high doses, have no idea of the peace that modest chewed doses can bring, and how gently Salvia takes you higher and lower, without the violent jerks up and down you so often get with smoking.

This is something I would be interested in knowing more about. I've tried chewing Salvia, but I just got a stomach ache. How much did you chew and are there any "special techniques" to chewing it? Should you spit or swallow?


Edited by MushmanTheManic (07/24/06 06:04 PM)


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Invisibleshymanta
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Re: Tackling the salvia beast. [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5895678 - 07/24/06 10:39 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
...just a nibble here and a nibble there, slowly chewing over the course of 10 minutes, swallowing the saliva when desired.




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