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InvisiblelIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
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Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 11,123
Loc: Texas
We are all trapped in time.
    #5884974 - 07/21/06 04:36 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

And there's nothing you can do about it.


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: We are all trapped in time. [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #5884989 - 07/21/06 04:43 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I might as well rattle the cage.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: We are all trapped in time. [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #5884997 - 07/21/06 04:46 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

adjust said:
And there's nothing you can do about it.




Really?


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflineGomp
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Re: We are all trapped in time. [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #5885062 - 07/21/06 05:12 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

"...the measure "Time", cannot be changed.. but; you as the effect of it, is/are change... *-e/-ing .. "
- Unknown..


--------------------


--------------------
Disclaimer!?


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Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: We are all trapped in time. [Re: Gomp]
    #5885121 - 07/21/06 05:31 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

what do you mean trapped in time?


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


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InvisiblelIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
Stranger

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 11,123
Loc: Texas
Re: We are all trapped in time. [Re: leery11]
    #5885136 - 07/21/06 05:34 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I mean we are all prisoners of the moment. I've had this thought several times during the past few weeks and wanted to share. :shrug:


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: We are all trapped in time. [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #5885158 - 07/21/06 05:39 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

yeah but it can be a continuous moment. And anyways nobody forces you or anybody else to stay there. Can we be prisoners of our own choice?


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisiblelIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
Stranger

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 11,123
Loc: Texas
Re: We are all trapped in time. [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #5885216 - 07/21/06 05:57 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I disagree. We are forced through time completely and utterly.


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Offlineleery11
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Registered: 06/24/05
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Re: We are all trapped in time. [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #5885256 - 07/21/06 06:13 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

what is the moment dude?

sit on the floor and stare at the wall.
try and do that for 3 hours.

OR

browse the internet.

time takes a radical shift in nature, doesn't it? time isn't anything, time is just right now. right now keeps continuing, and we stratify it based upon the duration of our typical patterns. for instance we are an eating, sleeping, working, being. so we have startifications of now into then, and then into will be, and will be into was.....

but really it's just...... the seasons changing. the sun rising and falling. and us. and time doesn't mean a lot.

it's existences prisoner that we are........ time is just a way of describing things. do you mean SOCIETY'S TIME? that is an enslavement. it makes us feel like we don't have much of this "time" so we had best savor it and manage it effiicently.

actually there is tons of time to be spared for you. time when you are washing the dishes. and time in between the keystrokes you are making. and time in the hypnagogic state, and time in the dream world. and time in the car, and time at work.

and you can just surrender and flow with it. and then keystroking is keystroking... dishwashing is dishwashing.
they are neutral, black and white, and simple are what they are.

but you are always there, and there is a freedom to this.

this is what being stoned kind of shows you...... the tremendous DEPTH of one moment.

if you've been stoned.... do you remember that first time you listened to a really long piece of music, and felt like eternity was lapsing?

I put on GSYBE!'s Skinny Fists album....... I spent "hours" in the first 30 minute track. it lead me eventually to a manfiestation of clear white light cascading and filling my being, then dissipating upon grasping of it.

time isn't really that real. you are just constantly in motion even if you are sitting still. to TUNE INTO THAT MOTION is to attain escape velocity
--------------------------
consider that each moment you are supremely happy, more than your ego could handle, so that it's a constant surprise, continually validating and pereptuating itself, and holds more momentum than anything you could ever encounter in reality, so that if you are fishing, or being written a speeding ticket, or sleeping, or you stubbed your toe really bad.... it carries more reality than time itself.

this would be you bearing silent perpetual witness to the passing of time.... it is a unification.

thus, so there is time, you are always free, and it is irrelevant. ultimate surrender to this is nirvana, in which, who cares ? no time. hardly any you. but you're there. and if you wanna be a human, yeah you have to play by human rules, but humans can attain ultimate freedom.

it is only that we cannot pay attention to the omnipresence of "time" that we are not really free..... we simply live to let time lapse into a later time. we work so that we can stop working and go home. we get up so that we can start working. we have obligations...... but in actuality time is always there, and if it were colored white we could follow its tracers, hop into it, and be pereptually PRESENT and perpetually NOW.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


Edited by leery11 (07/21/06 06:18 PM)


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InvisiblelIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
Stranger

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 11,123
Loc: Texas
Re: We are all trapped in time. [Re: leery11]
    #5885286 - 07/21/06 06:23 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Time isn't anything, it is just right now. It keeps on continuing. I would add that there is nothing we can do to stop that continuation.

I have experienced shifts in time from other drugs.


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Offlineleery11
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Registered: 06/24/05
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Re: We are all trapped in time. [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #5885305 - 07/21/06 06:27 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

i woudln't disagree that we can't not experience continuation, at least not as human beings. perhaps as beings who are capable of body transcendence.

i'm not sure how this is imprisonment though. in the grand scheme of things, time like most concepts of the planet are not freeing things.... they keep us here, and our potential limited.

but it's only because of our perceptions isn't it? you do not see dogs becoming ascended masters, sitting in caves laughing in bliss.....

one thing is that the brainwaves radically alter our perception of "time" and to be able to shift brainwave states is to more or less be perpetually freer.

so what.... is the quarrel with time? i think i get what you mean, but i also don't. time is really just life, and time lasts until you return to the source of wherever you came.

possibly to recontinue some time later.

so time is really just you and however long you are.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


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Offlineleery11
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Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
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Re: We are all trapped in time. [Re: leery11]
    #5885313 - 07/21/06 06:30 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

and you know the only thing that separates the me typing on the computer from the me riding a roller coaster in my history is my perception of separation.... i.e. artificial notions of continuity, and the way the brain files the perception of time.

i'm still doing both aren't i? it almost seems like you really could bridge the gap between time, and be elsewhere at once.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Posts: 14,794
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Re: We are all trapped in time. [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #5885325 - 07/21/06 06:34 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I think you need more arguments that that.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Invisiblemalarki
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Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 200
Loc: Ashittown, USA
Re: We are all trapped in time. [Re: leery11]
    #5885332 - 07/21/06 06:36 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

You can develop awareness - train your mind. You will realize that time is only a constraint society has constructed. You yourself can be timeless. Once you realize that then you will realized you are not forced to do anything, but choose to do everything.

The aim is to stop the mind wandering and clinging to distractions and thoughts of past, future - worry, fear, greed etc.
Be here now! Rest in peaceful awareness! Be aware of the voidness / emptiness of reality! This will give you peace. And help you accept reality for its entirety.

From meditating I have been able to detach myself from what is happening around me and think about it. In my reality, I can put my life in slow motion when I need it. (especially useful when crashing a motorcycle:P)

We realize that we create our own reality, how we perceive life depends on our attitudes, belief, sense of self.


--------------------
~*~I'm also an educated guesser, and knowledge seeker :smile: If I haven't done it, I know someone who has. IF I don't know, I know someone who does! I am a realist so deal with it, if you don't like it you can choose to not read it!


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: We are all trapped in time. [Re: leery11]
    #5885344 - 07/21/06 06:39 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

"On really romantic evenings of self, I go salsa dancing with my confusion."

Waknig Life


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Invisiblemalarki
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Female User Gallery

Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 200
Loc: Ashittown, USA
Re: We are all trapped in time. [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #5885379 - 07/21/06 06:49 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

My time meditating is not only my time with my self.. It usually turns into a trip to the beach, and it's fucking beautiful :smile: Did you know you really can fly?  :psychsplit:


--------------------
~*~I'm also an educated guesser, and knowledge seeker :smile: If I haven't done it, I know someone who has. IF I don't know, I know someone who does! I am a realist so deal with it, if you don't like it you can choose to not read it!


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InvisiblelIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
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Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 11,123
Loc: Texas
Re: We are all trapped in time. [Re: malarki]
    #5885384 - 07/21/06 06:52 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

This is all making me think.

I wonder if you are right, that time is existence. If that is the case then being free from existence would be non-existence?

Looking at it that way time is more like a structure than a prison.


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Invisiblemalarki
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Registered: 06/17/06
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Re: We are all trapped in time. [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #5885404 - 07/21/06 06:59 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Being free from time is what makes you free. If you are bound by the constrictions of time you are not free to be YOU, you are only capable of existing in a minimal sense (only allowed what society allows). Non-existence is death. Timeless is being able to be with out being what others want you to be. The amount of happiness you will experience when you finally allow yourself to "BE" and are not impatiently waiting for something to happen, Is indescribable. Complete Euphoria.
:dancing:
Enlightenment is understanding that there is nowhere to go, nothing to do, and nobody you have to be except exactly who you're being right now. --Neale Donald Walsch


--------------------
~*~I'm also an educated guesser, and knowledge seeker :smile: If I haven't done it, I know someone who has. IF I don't know, I know someone who does! I am a realist so deal with it, if you don't like it you can choose to not read it!


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OfflineSimpleThoughts
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Re: We are all trapped in time. [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #5885932 - 07/21/06 10:03 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Some part of his thoughts are true, time is real because time is life. Time = It Starts and it Ends just like your life.


--------------------
WE CAN'T CHANGE THE WORLD. LIKE EVERY PERSON,
THE WORLD IS WHAT HE IS, THE ONLY THINGS WE
HAVE TO DO IS, RESPECT IT AND DEAL WITH IT.


Edited by SimpleThoughts (07/21/06 10:04 PM)


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Offlineleery11
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Registered: 06/24/05
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Re: We are all trapped in time. [Re: SimpleThoughts]
    #5886020 - 07/21/06 10:34 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
"On really romantic evenings of self, I go salsa dancing with my confusion."

Waknig Life



i love that guy, and that segment. they capture the emotion of impending self discovery well :smile: (well i dunno what it feels like yet but hey!)
Quote:

malarki said:
My time meditating is not only my time with my self.. It usually turns into a trip to the beach, and it's fucking beautiful :smile: Did you know you really can fly?  :psychsplit:



so you meditate into an OBE? How long did it take you to develop this, and what method do you use?

my legs go asleep completely sitting in half lotus or lotus. now it's not so bad it's just i think maybe it might do long term harm to them.

but that's not an issue to OBE per se..... i dunno.
i generally do either meditation on chakras (yet to fully open one in a metaphysical way) or counting of the exhale as taught in a Zen class.
Quote:

SimpleThoughts said:
Some part of his thoughts are true, time is real because time is life. Time = It Starts and it Ends just like your life.



your life doesn't have to end though.

yoga nidra is the practice of conscious deep sleep.

deep sleep is nearly clinical brain death.

dreams are like reincarnating back into you. or rebirthing if you aren't aware that you have even fallen asleep !

so, if you lie down, go through your death rehearsal (which i think is what sleep is), and go through it aware, to the other side, or attain awareness after deep sleep, in the dream state.

hey, you're you again! now what do you want to be? make yourself it, and wake up into it. sure now, you're gonna be you still, becuase you probably aren't dead and rebirthing, but think of it in the cosmic scale?

master this fully including deep sleep awareness and it's said you can directly program your future in profound ways.

so yeah if you die, well, you just pick up where you left off and keep working. whats to say you can't be lucid the whole way throuhg, or at least partway through?

and what's to say once in the dream you can choose to stay there and reintegrate with the source, instead of being a human, or a heffalump.

and what's to say you die? join the 2012 trip and open up your higher chakras...... transcend your body and be able to leave it at will.

all things i need to work on more !


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


Edited by leery11 (07/21/06 10:34 PM)


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: We are all trapped in time. [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #5886607 - 07/22/06 03:29 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

adjust said:
And there's nothing you can do about it.




Since when is being alive entrapment? You state that we exist in a state of constant interaction, and that there is nothing we can do about it - there certainly is, we can choose how to constantly interact. :smirk:

Time is change, simple.

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: We are all trapped in time. [Re: malarki]
    #5886659 - 07/22/06 03:52 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

malarki said:
You can develop awareness - train your mind. You will realize that time is only a constraint society has constructed. You yourself can be timeless. Once you realize that then you will realized you are not forced to do anything, but choose to do everything.




Time is not a construct that society has constructed, time is an observation. Our sense of time in a sober state of mind has developed, over time, in relation to recurring events in our environment - the Earth's rotation, the Earth's orbit around Sol, the Moon's orbit around us... the subsequent seasons... these are the factors that have the most effect on our life and are the physical clockwork that produces our sense of time.

Consciousness itself might be timeless, but the experience and event of being a human being implies time. Time is change, regardless of how slowly or fastly time appears to pass to an observer.

It is necessary to maintain a practical sense of the passing of time in order to provide for the continuation of one's existance. This certainly does not mean that we will not have moments in which we, as the result of more directly perceiving reality, lose our normal sense of the passage of time - simply that we have a sense of the passage of time for a reason, and it is important to maintain a practical sense of the passage of time, whatever is necessary for the individual to life one's life (there is no standard, certainly no real way to know how someone else is experiencing the passage of time :lol:).

Quote:


Be here now! Rest in peaceful awareness! Be aware of the voidness / emptiness of reality! This will give you peace. And help you accept reality for its entirety.




It is of most importance to become directly perceptive of the present moment. It truly is the only moment in which we exist, and it is through bringing awareness into the experience of the present that we discover that we are alive - the more awareness we bring within this experience, the more we are alive, the more reality exists. :cool:

Quote:


From meditating I have been able to detach myself from what is happening around me and think about it. In my reality, I can put my life in slow motion when I need it. (especially useful when crashing a motorcycle:P)




I wouldn't necessarily consider it to be slow motion, but, simply, motion, if you see what I mean. :wink:

There is a sense of the passage of time, and then there is a abstract sense of time, preconceived by the mind, that has less to do with the direct perception of change in one's environment, and incredibly moreso to do with piecing together memories, preoccupations with the past, and etc...


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisiblelIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
Stranger

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 11,123
Loc: Texas
Re: We are all trapped in time. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5886917 - 07/22/06 07:55 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I'm not sure if time is happening outside my head in the universe or that time is just the manner that I exist and am conscious and does not exist outside my head.

If time does exist without a window such as human consciousness to observe it, then I think we are all trapped in a prison that is time.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: We are all trapped in time. [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #5886928 - 07/22/06 08:08 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

adjust said:
I'm not sure if time is happening outside my head in the universe or that time is just the manner that I exist and am conscious and does not exist outside my head.




Are you implying that change in reality does not exist? As we directly perceive reality, sensory data changes. It is not the same, consistent input. Things in our environment change, thus, time exists in our environment.

Quote:


If time does exist without a window such as human consciousness to observe it, then I think we are all trapped in a prison that is time.




That's like exclaiming "We are on a prison known as Earth!", or, "I am a prisoner in my house!". Perhaps I like being on the Earth, and living in my house. :lol: I like the fact that things interact and change is produced, because, otherwise, there would be no occurence, there would be no event, and there would be no subsequent experience. Being a prisoner to living life isn't exactly being a prisoner, inn'it? :wink:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisiblelIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
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Posts: 11,123
Loc: Texas
Re: We are all trapped in time. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5886944 - 07/22/06 08:25 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Are you implying that change in reality does not exist?



Kind of.

I am certain that the sounds we hear and colors we see do not exist outside our head. Not all living beings can hear, and not all can see color, and some see different colors than we do.

Time may be something that we perceive but is simply a perception just like what we experience from our other senses. If that is the case, then time would not be something forced on us, but just a part of what we experience (a very crucial part).

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
As we directly perceive reality, sensory data changes. It is not the same, consistent input. Things in our environment change, thus, time exists in our environment.



I am perceiving time, but there is nothing I can see that proves time must be progressing in any direction. Time is just another dimension like space.

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
That's like exclaiming "We are on a prison known as Earth!", or, "I am a prisoner in my house!". Perhaps I like being on the Earth, and living in my house.



You can leave your house and this earth. You cannot leave time.

Is time a limiting factor on how we perceive the universe (like any of our other senses), or is it intrinsic to this universe and independent of our perception? :confused:


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OfflineGomp
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Re: We are all trapped in time. [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #5886945 - 07/22/06 08:26 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

"Being trapped in/by the trapper.."
-Unknown :p


--------------------


--------------------
Disclaimer!?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: We are all trapped in time. [Re: Gomp]
    #5886993 - 07/22/06 08:56 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

time is like water
sometimes it is a droplet or rivulet and confining
sometimes it is an ocean or tsunami and overwhelming

and we
thread through time with our sticky mind as if
the of stretching ideas were in itself measuring the force of time and proof of self.

does a very sticky stretchy idea make time more or less confining?


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: We are all trapped in time. [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #5887005 - 07/22/06 09:05 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

adjust said:
I am certain that the sounds we hear and colors we see do not exist outside our head. Not all living beings can hear, and not all can see color, and some see different colors than we do.




Ah, but these perceptions are formed from sensory data collected from one's environment by one's sensory devices. Lack of a specific sensory device that collects data of a certain aspect present in reality does not demonstrate the lack of that aspect of reality being present. As I have already stated several times, we certainly have a wide ability to influence reality, and the manner in which we perceive it and intrepret it - and yet, all of it is based upon the sensory data that is collected from the sensory device's interaction with reality.

The environment has produced you, positioned you so that it can interact with you and, thus, further itself. It is important to realize the power that one has in developing oneself and one's environment, most assuredly, but the role that one's environment has in oneself and one's perception of reality is incredible, and is not to be denied.

Quote:


Time may be something that we perceive but is simply a perception just like what we experience from our other senses. If that is the case, then time would not be something forced on us, but just a part of what we experience (a very crucial part).




It is a perception, but yet it is a perception based upon and resembling aspects of reality. Time isn't forced upon us, it is simply constant, it is the measurement of motion, of change. A sense of time is maintained because we perceive change, and that sense of time is based upon the nature of the change we perceive.

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
I am perceiving time, but there is nothing I can see that proves time must be progressing in any direction. Time is just another dimension like space.




Time doesn't progress in directions, such is merely an abstraction of a sense of tense. Time is change, it is measured by change. One constructs a device such as a clock that acts as a recurring event, and one collects data from it and its repetition. There, very clearly, is but one moment, distinctions from one moment are based upon change, thus, there is a near infinite amount of ways to sense time, dependant on the range of change being measured or detected.

Time will always be directly involved in one's experience of reality, as one will, presumably, always be bearing witness to change.

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
You can leave your house and this earth. You cannot leave time.




You cannot leave you, either. Are you a prisoner to you? :smirk:

That's my point, the simple fact that something is a permanent factor in one's experience does not state that one is "prisoner" to it. It simply is this way, and to express feeling held in a negative manner by it would imply some amount of denial of the way reality presents itself, which, thus, implies suffering as a result.

Why, and in what ways, is time holding you back, keeping you "down"?

Quote:


Is time a limiting factor on how we perceive the universe (like any of our other senses), or is it intrinsic to this universe and independent of our perception? :confused:




Time is not a limiting factor on how we perceive our environment, as time results from our perceptions of our environment. You state "like any of our other senses", but I do not comprehend in the slightest how an eye is a limiting factor on how we perceive our environment. Is its ability to perceive the totality of reality limited? Certainly, but employing eyesight does not limit our ability to perceive the totality of reality - it enables us to moreso perceive reality, as it is yet one more device and thus more data from interacting with reality to take into consideration.

Thus, time is more data reality is providing for us to utilize in our understanding and navigation within and as reality. :thumbup:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisiblelIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
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Re: We are all trapped in time. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5887137 - 07/22/06 10:27 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

This is proving to be a very complicated issue. It seems like something that is very difficult to explain in words or make any determinations on.

What I think you are saying is that the universe is changing and since our senses are showing us the universe, that is how we percieve time passing.

I will have to think this over for a while.

PS - What I meant by our senses being a limiting factor is that our senses limit what we can experience. Maybe I worded that awkwardly.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: We are all trapped in time. [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #5887356 - 07/22/06 12:11 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

adjust said:
This is proving to be a very complicated issue. It seems like something that is very difficult to explain in words or make any determinations on.




A lot of life's great aspects are simple in nature, but complex in explanation to others. :smirk:

Quote:


What I think you are saying is that the universe is changing and since our senses are showing us the universe, that is how we percieve time passing.




Certainly, I believe that is what I may be saying. I was also proposing that perhaps the normal sense of the passage of time that we experience in our day to day life is determined by recurring factors, such as the orbit and rotation of the earth. Perhaps someone born on Saturn would have an entirely distinct sense of the passage of time. :shrug:

Quote:


I will have to think this over for a while.




Great! Too often, there are those who tend to not even consider thinking much. It is refreshing to encounter others who actually dedicate themselves to contemplation and true seeking. :thumbup:

Quote:


PS -  What I meant by our senses being a limiting factor is that our senses limit what we can experience. Maybe I worded that awkwardly.




I thought you may have been expressing this, which is why I addressed it as I did. We may have limitations in the ways we process reality, so to speak, but this does not mean that the information we do perceive and subsequently experience is not reflective of reality - it just isn't a total glimpse. To experience the totality of reality would seem to not be possible, as one is an aspect of reality. Is it not implied that there will always be a meta tag that effects the program but is not known to the program? :shrug:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineDroz
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Re: We are all trapped in time. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5888119 - 07/22/06 04:54 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I think you are saying, We were born and have to face life there is no getting out of this alive.


--------------------
Evolution of Time.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: We are all trapped in time. [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #5888365 - 07/22/06 06:08 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

adjust said:
If time does exist without a window such as human consciousness to observe it, then I think we are all trapped in a prison that is time.




I think that's probably true. How you define "trapped" is up to interpretation, though :wink:

I'm about as certain that time exists indipendantly of humans as I am certain of anything. It is a fundamental component of this universe, and is expressed in physics as the 4th dimension. To accurately locate any object in spacetime you must know 4 values - 3 for it's physical location, and 1 for it's duration.

Ivi posted this link in the sci & tech forum not too long ago. It's a short flash movie trying to explain dimensions higher than the 3 spatial ones we are most used to (length, width, depth). Check out the 4th dimension - that's what time is. The movie does a good job explaining what time "is" and how you can imagine it outside of human experience.

http://www.tenthdimension.com/flash2.php

Now think of what that movie implies...

We are 3-dimensional beings, living in a 10-dimensional universe. Because we are 3 dimensional, we are free to move through the first 3 dimensions at will. I can go backwards as easily as I can go forwards. We can experience the dimension directly above "us" - which is the 4th dimension, Time - but we are not free to move through it at will. The dimensions above the 4th are entirely out of our 3-D reach.

Out of the 4 that we can experience, Time is the odd man out. The first 3 are easy because we begin to manipulate them as soon as we are conscious. Time, being just out of our grasp, feels strange. Our lack of control over it contrasts with our easy use of the first 3 dimensions, and that just doesn't sit right.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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Offlinecapliberty
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Re: We are all trapped in time. [Re: trendal]
    #5888694 - 07/22/06 07:46 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

time doesn't exist other than a measurment of change by two or more arbitary reference points, and only one capable of observing those


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: We are all trapped in time. [Re: capliberty]
    #5888809 - 07/22/06 08:18 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

time doesn't exist other than a measurment of change by two or more arbitary reference points

You can't measure something that doesn't exist :wink:

Time is a dimension. It is a direction of movement within this universe. It exists independent of any arbitrary points. However Time itself cannot be measured - it isn't a quantity of anything, on its own. Only durations of Time can be measured - a second is an easily definable segment of the temporal dimension...just as a kilometer is a segment of one spatial dimension.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: We are all trapped in time. [Re: trendal]
    #5888821 - 07/22/06 08:21 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
Only durations of Time can be measured - a second is an easily definable segment of the temporal dimension...just as a kilometer is a segment of one spatial dimension.




Exactly, and information obtained from these dimensions can be applied and utilized, thus confirming that it isn't simply an abstract concept that we ourselves create - it is occuring, and we perceive it. Our sense of its passage is entirely relative, but based upon an observable aspect of reality.

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinecapliberty
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Re: We are all trapped in time. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5889494 - 07/23/06 12:57 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Just experience ego death, and ask yourself if time isn't a matter of perception

If you view this universe as an object, going beyond the dimensions of time, viewing from dimension where the beginning and end are all encompassed within that one object, you would perceive that time having no relevance except within that system,

and when I said arbitrary reference points I'm referring to the universe as that reference point, no its not independent of that reference point,

there is no actual time phenomenon, time is a relative concept like any other,


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: We are all trapped in time. [Re: capliberty]
    #5889795 - 07/23/06 06:44 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Just experience ego death, and ask yourself if time isn't a matter of perception

Been there. Done that. Doesn't change my views.

Ego-death is an internal phenomena, not external. It exists only in relation to human consciousness (if there were no humans, there would be no ego death). The experience of ego-death is one that occurs within the psyche.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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InvisiblelIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
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Re: We are all trapped in time. [Re: capliberty]
    #5889937 - 07/23/06 08:54 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I have had some extremely odd experiences with dmt breakthroughs. Although my perception of time was greatly twisted to such a degree that it is almost unexplainable, time still progressed after a fashion. In other words ego death is not an escape from time, ime at least.

trendal: Look forward to reading about these extra dimensions! thanks for the link.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: We are all trapped in time. I rant again [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #5890023 - 07/23/06 09:50 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

While looking in the mirror, I mean really looking at looking; it is obvious to me that consciousness itself is all about persistence, or the potential of persistence:

Resonating, echoing, looping of sensation and memories, and the layering together of these energy events conjure consciousness and are saved in some sticky way as memories which shape the echo chamber of this mind stuff as personality.

Memory can come back later by association - it successfully persists in a holographic cortical matrix, and when experiencing fades from stage more slowly than usual then it persists in the now as the enriched experiencing recognized as OEV’s and psychedelic dimensions.

I read a lot of reports and theories about the psychedelic dimensions and time distortion from many psychonauts and I am surprised how commonly they consider that these are new physical spaces yet to be discovered by science rather than the extended resonating of layers of now such as we are already familiar with in dreams and intense mental states.

Also if we are seeing the layers and experiencing things lasting longer and becoming richer – i.e. colors blooming more colorfully and edges blurring or fractally altered – figures conforming like gargoyles or centaurs or melting, and space compounding into 4 dimensional wonders - why is it hard to understand that these are artifacts of nows that have not faded yet, but are stacking up in an extended now.

And if we can catch on to stacking why can we not see that time (based on the sense of passage) is disrupted or restructured by the stacking of impressions from a collection of persisting now moments.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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