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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
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Loc: Pandurn
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Quote:
adjust said: And there's nothing you can do about it.
Since when is being alive entrapment? You state that we exist in a state of constant interaction, and that there is nothing we can do about it - there certainly is, we can choose how to constantly interact. 
Time is change, simple.
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
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Re: We are all trapped in time. [Re: malarki]
#5886659 - 07/22/06 03:52 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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malarki said: You can develop awareness - train your mind. You will realize that time is only a constraint society has constructed. You yourself can be timeless. Once you realize that then you will realized you are not forced to do anything, but choose to do everything.
Time is not a construct that society has constructed, time is an observation. Our sense of time in a sober state of mind has developed, over time, in relation to recurring events in our environment - the Earth's rotation, the Earth's orbit around Sol, the Moon's orbit around us... the subsequent seasons... these are the factors that have the most effect on our life and are the physical clockwork that produces our sense of time.
Consciousness itself might be timeless, but the experience and event of being a human being implies time. Time is change, regardless of how slowly or fastly time appears to pass to an observer.
It is necessary to maintain a practical sense of the passing of time in order to provide for the continuation of one's existance. This certainly does not mean that we will not have moments in which we, as the result of more directly perceiving reality, lose our normal sense of the passage of time - simply that we have a sense of the passage of time for a reason, and it is important to maintain a practical sense of the passage of time, whatever is necessary for the individual to life one's life (there is no standard, certainly no real way to know how someone else is experiencing the passage of time ).
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Be here now! Rest in peaceful awareness! Be aware of the voidness / emptiness of reality! This will give you peace. And help you accept reality for its entirety.
It is of most importance to become directly perceptive of the present moment. It truly is the only moment in which we exist, and it is through bringing awareness into the experience of the present that we discover that we are alive - the more awareness we bring within this experience, the more we are alive, the more reality exists. 
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From meditating I have been able to detach myself from what is happening around me and think about it. In my reality, I can put my life in slow motion when I need it. (especially useful when crashing a motorcycle:P)
I wouldn't necessarily consider it to be slow motion, but, simply, motion, if you see what I mean.
There is a sense of the passage of time, and then there is a abstract sense of time, preconceived by the mind, that has less to do with the direct perception of change in one's environment, and incredibly moreso to do with piecing together memories, preoccupations with the past, and etc...
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
Stranger

Registered: 12/16/04
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Loc: Texas
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Re: We are all trapped in time. [Re: fireworks_god]
#5886917 - 07/22/06 07:55 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm not sure if time is happening outside my head in the universe or that time is just the manner that I exist and am conscious and does not exist outside my head.
If time does exist without a window such as human consciousness to observe it, then I think we are all trapped in a prison that is time.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
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Quote:
adjust said: I'm not sure if time is happening outside my head in the universe or that time is just the manner that I exist and am conscious and does not exist outside my head.
Are you implying that change in reality does not exist? As we directly perceive reality, sensory data changes. It is not the same, consistent input. Things in our environment change, thus, time exists in our environment.
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If time does exist without a window such as human consciousness to observe it, then I think we are all trapped in a prison that is time.
That's like exclaiming "We are on a prison known as Earth!", or, "I am a prisoner in my house!". Perhaps I like being on the Earth, and living in my house. I like the fact that things interact and change is produced, because, otherwise, there would be no occurence, there would be no event, and there would be no subsequent experience. Being a prisoner to living life isn't exactly being a prisoner, inn'it? 
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
Stranger

Registered: 12/16/04
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Re: We are all trapped in time. [Re: fireworks_god]
#5886944 - 07/22/06 08:25 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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fireworks_god said: Are you implying that change in reality does not exist?
Kind of.
I am certain that the sounds we hear and colors we see do not exist outside our head. Not all living beings can hear, and not all can see color, and some see different colors than we do.
Time may be something that we perceive but is simply a perception just like what we experience from our other senses. If that is the case, then time would not be something forced on us, but just a part of what we experience (a very crucial part).
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fireworks_god said: As we directly perceive reality, sensory data changes. It is not the same, consistent input. Things in our environment change, thus, time exists in our environment.
I am perceiving time, but there is nothing I can see that proves time must be progressing in any direction. Time is just another dimension like space.
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fireworks_god said: That's like exclaiming "We are on a prison known as Earth!", or, "I am a prisoner in my house!". Perhaps I like being on the Earth, and living in my house.
You can leave your house and this earth. You cannot leave time.
Is time a limiting factor on how we perceive the universe (like any of our other senses), or is it intrinsic to this universe and independent of our perception?
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Gomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!


Registered: 09/11/04
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"Being trapped in/by the trapper.." -Unknown :p
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-------------------- Disclaimer!?
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,534
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Re: We are all trapped in time. [Re: Gomp]
#5886993 - 07/22/06 08:56 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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time is like water sometimes it is a droplet or rivulet and confining sometimes it is an ocean or tsunami and overwhelming
and we thread through time with our sticky mind as if the of stretching ideas were in itself measuring the force of time and proof of self.
does a very sticky stretchy idea make time more or less confining?
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
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Quote:
adjust said: I am certain that the sounds we hear and colors we see do not exist outside our head. Not all living beings can hear, and not all can see color, and some see different colors than we do.
Ah, but these perceptions are formed from sensory data collected from one's environment by one's sensory devices. Lack of a specific sensory device that collects data of a certain aspect present in reality does not demonstrate the lack of that aspect of reality being present. As I have already stated several times, we certainly have a wide ability to influence reality, and the manner in which we perceive it and intrepret it - and yet, all of it is based upon the sensory data that is collected from the sensory device's interaction with reality.
The environment has produced you, positioned you so that it can interact with you and, thus, further itself. It is important to realize the power that one has in developing oneself and one's environment, most assuredly, but the role that one's environment has in oneself and one's perception of reality is incredible, and is not to be denied.
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Time may be something that we perceive but is simply a perception just like what we experience from our other senses. If that is the case, then time would not be something forced on us, but just a part of what we experience (a very crucial part).
It is a perception, but yet it is a perception based upon and resembling aspects of reality. Time isn't forced upon us, it is simply constant, it is the measurement of motion, of change. A sense of time is maintained because we perceive change, and that sense of time is based upon the nature of the change we perceive.
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fireworks_god said: I am perceiving time, but there is nothing I can see that proves time must be progressing in any direction. Time is just another dimension like space.
Time doesn't progress in directions, such is merely an abstraction of a sense of tense. Time is change, it is measured by change. One constructs a device such as a clock that acts as a recurring event, and one collects data from it and its repetition. There, very clearly, is but one moment, distinctions from one moment are based upon change, thus, there is a near infinite amount of ways to sense time, dependant on the range of change being measured or detected.
Time will always be directly involved in one's experience of reality, as one will, presumably, always be bearing witness to change.
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fireworks_god said: You can leave your house and this earth. You cannot leave time.
You cannot leave you, either. Are you a prisoner to you?
That's my point, the simple fact that something is a permanent factor in one's experience does not state that one is "prisoner" to it. It simply is this way, and to express feeling held in a negative manner by it would imply some amount of denial of the way reality presents itself, which, thus, implies suffering as a result.
Why, and in what ways, is time holding you back, keeping you "down"?
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Is time a limiting factor on how we perceive the universe (like any of our other senses), or is it intrinsic to this universe and independent of our perception?
Time is not a limiting factor on how we perceive our environment, as time results from our perceptions of our environment. You state "like any of our other senses", but I do not comprehend in the slightest how an eye is a limiting factor on how we perceive our environment. Is its ability to perceive the totality of reality limited? Certainly, but employing eyesight does not limit our ability to perceive the totality of reality - it enables us to moreso perceive reality, as it is yet one more device and thus more data from interacting with reality to take into consideration.
Thus, time is more data reality is providing for us to utilize in our understanding and navigation within and as reality.
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
Stranger

Registered: 12/16/04
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Re: We are all trapped in time. [Re: fireworks_god]
#5887137 - 07/22/06 10:27 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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This is proving to be a very complicated issue. It seems like something that is very difficult to explain in words or make any determinations on.
What I think you are saying is that the universe is changing and since our senses are showing us the universe, that is how we percieve time passing.
I will have to think this over for a while.
PS - What I meant by our senses being a limiting factor is that our senses limit what we can experience. Maybe I worded that awkwardly.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
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Quote:
adjust said: This is proving to be a very complicated issue. It seems like something that is very difficult to explain in words or make any determinations on.
A lot of life's great aspects are simple in nature, but complex in explanation to others. 
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What I think you are saying is that the universe is changing and since our senses are showing us the universe, that is how we percieve time passing.
Certainly, I believe that is what I may be saying. I was also proposing that perhaps the normal sense of the passage of time that we experience in our day to day life is determined by recurring factors, such as the orbit and rotation of the earth. Perhaps someone born on Saturn would have an entirely distinct sense of the passage of time.
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I will have to think this over for a while.
Great! Too often, there are those who tend to not even consider thinking much. It is refreshing to encounter others who actually dedicate themselves to contemplation and true seeking. 
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PS - What I meant by our senses being a limiting factor is that our senses limit what we can experience. Maybe I worded that awkwardly.
I thought you may have been expressing this, which is why I addressed it as I did. We may have limitations in the ways we process reality, so to speak, but this does not mean that the information we do perceive and subsequently experience is not reflective of reality - it just isn't a total glimpse. To experience the totality of reality would seem to not be possible, as one is an aspect of reality. Is it not implied that there will always be a meta tag that effects the program but is not known to the program? 
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Droz
Love of Life


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Re: We are all trapped in time. [Re: fireworks_god]
#5888119 - 07/22/06 04:54 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I think you are saying, We were born and have to face life there is no getting out of this alive.
-------------------- Evolution of Time.
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trendal
J♠


Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Quote:
adjust said: If time does exist without a window such as human consciousness to observe it, then I think we are all trapped in a prison that is time.
I think that's probably true. How you define "trapped" is up to interpretation, though 
I'm about as certain that time exists indipendantly of humans as I am certain of anything. It is a fundamental component of this universe, and is expressed in physics as the 4th dimension. To accurately locate any object in spacetime you must know 4 values - 3 for it's physical location, and 1 for it's duration.
Ivi posted this link in the sci & tech forum not too long ago. It's a short flash movie trying to explain dimensions higher than the 3 spatial ones we are most used to (length, width, depth). Check out the 4th dimension - that's what time is. The movie does a good job explaining what time "is" and how you can imagine it outside of human experience.
http://www.tenthdimension.com/flash2.php
Now think of what that movie implies...
We are 3-dimensional beings, living in a 10-dimensional universe. Because we are 3 dimensional, we are free to move through the first 3 dimensions at will. I can go backwards as easily as I can go forwards. We can experience the dimension directly above "us" - which is the 4th dimension, Time - but we are not free to move through it at will. The dimensions above the 4th are entirely out of our 3-D reach.
Out of the 4 that we can experience, Time is the odd man out. The first 3 are easy because we begin to manipulate them as soon as we are conscious. Time, being just out of our grasp, feels strange. Our lack of control over it contrasts with our easy use of the first 3 dimensions, and that just doesn't sit right.
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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capliberty
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Re: We are all trapped in time. [Re: trendal]
#5888694 - 07/22/06 07:46 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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time doesn't exist other than a measurment of change by two or more arbitary reference points, and only one capable of observing those
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trendal
J♠


Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: We are all trapped in time. [Re: capliberty]
#5888809 - 07/22/06 08:18 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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time doesn't exist other than a measurment of change by two or more arbitary reference points
You can't measure something that doesn't exist 
Time is a dimension. It is a direction of movement within this universe. It exists independent of any arbitrary points. However Time itself cannot be measured - it isn't a quantity of anything, on its own. Only durations of Time can be measured - a second is an easily definable segment of the temporal dimension...just as a kilometer is a segment of one spatial dimension.
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


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Re: We are all trapped in time. [Re: trendal]
#5888821 - 07/22/06 08:21 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
trendal said: Only durations of Time can be measured - a second is an easily definable segment of the temporal dimension...just as a kilometer is a segment of one spatial dimension.
Exactly, and information obtained from these dimensions can be applied and utilized, thus confirming that it isn't simply an abstract concept that we ourselves create - it is occuring, and we perceive it. Our sense of its passage is entirely relative, but based upon an observable aspect of reality.
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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capliberty
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Re: We are all trapped in time. [Re: fireworks_god]
#5889494 - 07/23/06 12:57 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Just experience ego death, and ask yourself if time isn't a matter of perception
If you view this universe as an object, going beyond the dimensions of time, viewing from dimension where the beginning and end are all encompassed within that one object, you would perceive that time having no relevance except within that system,
and when I said arbitrary reference points I'm referring to the universe as that reference point, no its not independent of that reference point,
there is no actual time phenomenon, time is a relative concept like any other,
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trendal
J♠


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Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: We are all trapped in time. [Re: capliberty]
#5889795 - 07/23/06 06:44 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Just experience ego death, and ask yourself if time isn't a matter of perception
Been there. Done that. Doesn't change my views.
Ego-death is an internal phenomena, not external. It exists only in relation to human consciousness (if there were no humans, there would be no ego death). The experience of ego-death is one that occurs within the psyche.
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
Stranger

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Re: We are all trapped in time. [Re: capliberty]
#5889937 - 07/23/06 08:54 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I have had some extremely odd experiences with dmt breakthroughs. Although my perception of time was greatly twisted to such a degree that it is almost unexplainable, time still progressed after a fashion. In other words ego death is not an escape from time, ime at least.
trendal: Look forward to reading about these extra dimensions! thanks for the link.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,534
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While looking in the mirror, I mean really looking at looking; it is obvious to me that consciousness itself is all about persistence, or the potential of persistence:
Resonating, echoing, looping of sensation and memories, and the layering together of these energy events conjure consciousness and are saved in some sticky way as memories which shape the echo chamber of this mind stuff as personality.
Memory can come back later by association - it successfully persists in a holographic cortical matrix, and when experiencing fades from stage more slowly than usual then it persists in the now as the enriched experiencing recognized as OEV’s and psychedelic dimensions.
I read a lot of reports and theories about the psychedelic dimensions and time distortion from many psychonauts and I am surprised how commonly they consider that these are new physical spaces yet to be discovered by science rather than the extended resonating of layers of now such as we are already familiar with in dreams and intense mental states.
Also if we are seeing the layers and experiencing things lasting longer and becoming richer – i.e. colors blooming more colorfully and edges blurring or fractally altered – figures conforming like gargoyles or centaurs or melting, and space compounding into 4 dimensional wonders - why is it hard to understand that these are artifacts of nows that have not faded yet, but are stacking up in an extended now.
And if we can catch on to stacking why can we not see that time (based on the sense of passage) is disrupted or restructured by the stacking of impressions from a collection of persisting now moments.
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