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InvisibletrendalM
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Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada Flag
Re: Anti-Semitism - the New Call of the Left [Re: Redstorm]
    #5885073 - 07/21/06 05:15 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
There is a huge difference between condemning the actions of the state of Israel and hating Jews.




:thumbup:

Exactly. Just because someone condemns the actions of the state of Israel...does not imply that they hate or are in any way prejudiced against Jews in general.

That would be like saying that all the Americans who hate French people are racist against whites :rolleyes:


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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InvisibleLuddite
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Registered: 03/23/06
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Re: Anti-Semitism - the New Call of the Left [Re: trendal]
    #5885193 - 07/21/06 05:50 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

See how fanatic muslims and their leftist allies lie and lead the world to its destruction.


WHO REALLY KILLED Mohammed al-Dura?

http://www.masada2000.org/al-dura.html

http://www.masada2000.org


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Anti-Semitism - the New Call of the Left [Re: Luddite]
    #5885222 - 07/21/06 05:58 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Parlez-vous anglais?


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Anti-Semitism - the New Call of the Left [Re: lonestar2004]
    #5885901 - 07/21/06 09:48 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

This was my favorite part: "But, unlike the right, which wishes to annihilate the Jews..."


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Offlinehot48yearolds
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Re: Anti-Semitism - the New Call of the Left [Re: lonestar2004]
    #5886129 - 07/21/06 11:22 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
Old Nazi Propaganda Poster:





The caption: "The Jew: The inciter of war, the prolonger of war." This poaster was released in late 1943 or early 1944.

http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/posters2.htm

If we don’t learn from history we are doomed to repeat it.




:frown:


--------------------
"Truth is more in the process than in the result."
- J. Krishnamurti




"We ourselves are not an illusory part of Reality; rather are we Reality itself illusorily conceived." Wei Wu Wei


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: Anti-Semitism - the New Call of the Left [Re: Redstorm]
    #5893666 - 07/24/06 06:13 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
There is a huge difference between condemning the actions of the state of Israel and hating Jews.




Exactly. I don't hate Jews, but i hate stereotyping and generalizing. I'm sure there are Jews that want peace, badly... i'm with them, but not with the aggressive state of Israel.

Look, i have jewish heritage (from both my grandmothers, known since the 15th century with "new-born christians" of sephardic origin) as well as muslim (from my grandfather, known since the 11th century, i'm from omiad descent, one of the main branches of the prophet). Therefore, i respect both religions and their people as i respect my heritage. I wish them peace because i know that will mean peace for the world. This state-powered war for territory has taken too long, too many people have died, too many children crippled, so much pain ...  :confused:

MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Anti-Semitism - the New Call of the Left [Re: lonestar2004]
    #5893820 - 07/24/06 08:29 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Anti-Semitism and Anti-Zionism: The Link

By Diana Muir

Ms. Muir is the author of Reflections in Bullough’s Pond: Economy and Ecosystem in New England. The working title of her current project is: What Good is a Nation; A Clear-Eyed Look at Nations and Nationalism.


This week, the Spanish Foreign Minister felt compelled to defend Prime Minister Zapatero from charges of anti-Semitism.

Zapatero had donned the black-checked keffiyeh that is the symbol of Palestinian determination to destroy the Jewish State and criticized Israel for using “abusive force that does not protect innocent human beings.”1

It was all too familiar.

On any given day one can find some eminent European – a university professor, high-ranking churchman, a parliamentarian – gravely explaining to reporters that harsh and disproportionate criticism of Israel is not anti-Semitic.

And their protestations sound plausible. After all, this is not your grandfather’s anti-Semitism. Israel’s highly-educated critics do not refuse to dine in restaurants that serve Jews, use epithets like “kike,” or believe that Jews control the international financial markets and are more likely than others to engage in shady business practices.

At least that is what I assumed until someone did the study.

Two Connecticut professors got curious about the constant denials that extremely harsh critics of Israel were anti-Semitic. Edward H. Kaplan, the William N. and Marie A. Beach Professor of Management Sciences at Yale, and Charles A. Small, Director of Urban Studies, Southern Connecticut State University, decided to examine the issue in formal way. Their paper, “Anti-Israel Sentiment Predicts Anti-Semitism in Europe,” appears in the August issue of the Journal of Conflict Resolution. 2

Kaplan and Small ask whether individuals expressing strong anti-Israel sentiments, such as the statement by Ted Honderich, Emeritus Grote Professor of the Philosophy of Mind and Logic at University College London, that “those Palestinians who have resorted to necessary killing have been right to try to free their people, and those who have killed themselves in the cause of their people have indeed sanctified themselves,” are more likely than the general population to also support in such old-style anti-Semitic slurs as “Jews have too much power in our country today.”

The correlation was almost perfect. In a survey of 5,000 Europeans in ten countries, people who believed that the Israeli soldiers “intentionally target Palestinian civilians,” and that “Palestinian suicide bombers who target Israeli civilians” are justified, also believed that “Jews don’t care what happens to anyone but their own kind,” “Jews have a lot of irritating faults,” and “Jews are more willing than others to use shady practices to get what they want.”

The study’s other interesting finding was that only a small fraction of Europeans believe any of these things. Anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism flourish among the few, but those few are over-represented in Europe’s newspapers, its universities, and its left-wing political parties.

For Americans who do not read the European press, the level of raw anti-Semitism in European intellectual circles can be shocking.

A couple of years ago the French Ambassador at the Court of St. James, Daniel Bernard, told his companions at a London dinner party that Israel is a “shitty little country,” “Why,” he asked, “should the world be in danger of World War Three because of those people?”3

Those people? Moderates heard echoes of old-fashioned anti-Semitism. But the French Foreign Ministry stood behind their ambassador, calling assertions that Bernard’s remarks were anti-Semitic "malevolent insinuations."4

The British press agreed. Columnist Deborah Orr defended Ambassador Bernard in the Independent. “Anti-Semitism is disliking all Jews, anywhere, and anti-Zionism is just disliking the existence of Israel and opposing those who support it,” explained Orr, who holds “the honest view that in my experience Israel is shitty and little.”5

Columnist Richard Woods summed up the attitude of the European intelligentsia when he wrote that Ambassador Bernard’s remark was only “apparently anti-Semitic”.6

Kaplan and Small have shown otherwise. When you read, for example, the opinion of Marc Gentilli, president of the French Red Cross, that the idea of allowing Israel to join the International Red Cross and use the Star of David on its ambulances is “disgusting,”7 you can be pretty sure that he, along with Ambassador Bernard, Prime Minister Zapatero, President Chirac, and the rest of Europe’s harsh critics of Israel, are very probably the kind of old-fashioned anti-Semites who just don’t like Jews very much.



After writing this essay, I learned that Zapatero may have had his own Daniel-Bernard-at-the-dinner-party moment. According to some reports, at a dinner party in late 2005, Zapatero loosed a tirade of extreme anti-Zionist and anti-Semitic rhetoric that ended with the phrase: "Es que a veces hasta se entiende que haya gente que puede justificar el holocausto" which means: "At times one can even understand that there might be people who could justify the Holocaust."

http://hnn.us/articles/28503.html


Link to the Yale Study.

2 Kaplan, Edward H. and Small, Charles A., “Anti-Israel Sentiment Predicts Anti-Semitism in Europe,” Journal of Conflict Resolution, Vol. 50 No. 4, August 2006, pp. 548-561
http://www.yale.edu/isps/seminars/antisemitism/kaplan.pdf


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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OfflineGazzBut
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Registered: 10/15/02
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Re: Anti-Semitism - the New Call of the Left [Re: lonestar2004]
    #5893850 - 07/24/06 09:02 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

So a study carried out by a Jew concludes that anyone who disagees with Israel's disgraceful behaviour is anti-semitic? Excuse me if Im not convinced.

Most people I know disagree with Israeli foreign policy but have no problems with Jews in general. I have met Jews who are equally ferverent in their opposition to the actions of men like Sharon et al. Are they to be labelled anti-semitic as well?

Quote:

For Americans who do not read the European press, the level of raw anti-Semitism in European intellectual circles can be shocking.




Translation: The level of unbiased reporting can be unsettling to the American mind spoon fed media with an unbelievably heavy bias towards Israel.

Quote:

A couple of years ago the French Ambassador at the Court of St. James, Daniel Bernard, told his companions at a London dinner party that Israel is a “shitty little country,” “Why,” he asked, “should the world be in danger of World War Three because of those people?”




Im sure we could find such comments made by plenty of western politicians in relation to Arab states or even South American states.

I dont suppose this would be frowned upon though?


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
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Registered: 10/18/00
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Re: Anti-Semitism - the New Call of the Left [Re: GazzBut]
    #5893906 - 07/24/06 09:48 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

GazzBut writes:

Quote:

Im sure we could find such comments made by plenty of western politicians in relation to Arab states or even South American states.




You're sure you could -- it's just you can't be bothered to do so?

I'd be interested in reading comments from "plenty" of Western politicians of the prominence of ambassadors calling Arab states and/or South American states "shitty little countries" (or the equivalent) and asking why the world should be in danger of world war three because of "those people".

Let's define for the moment "plenty" as two. Go for it.




Phred


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Anti-Semitism - the New Call of the Left [Re: lonestar2004]
    #5894523 - 07/24/06 02:19 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

And their protestations sound plausible. After all, this is not your grandfather’s anti-Semitism. Israel’s highly-educated critics do not refuse to dine in restaurants that serve Jews, use epithets like “kike,” or believe that Jews control the international financial markets and are more likely than others to engage in shady business practices.




Doesn't sound like anti-Semitism to me. So, basically she's contending that there's a conspiracy behind criticism towards Israel  :rolleyes:


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Registered: 10/03/04
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Re: Anti-Semitism - the New Call of the Left [Re: Basilides]
    #5894563 - 07/24/06 02:39 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Basilides said:
Quote:

And their protestations sound plausible. After all, this is not your grandfather’s anti-Semitism. Israel’s highly-educated critics do not refuse to dine in restaurants that serve Jews, use epithets like “kike,” or believe that Jews control the international financial markets and are more likely than others to engage in shady business practices.




Doesn't sound like anti-Semitism to me.





"believed that “Jews don’t care what happens to anyone but their own kind,” “Jews have a lot of irritating faults,” and “Jews are more willing than others to use shady practices to get what they want.”


Sounds to me like nazism is alive and well over there.......


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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OfflineRosettaStoned
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Registered: 05/29/06
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Re: Anti-Semitism - the New Call of the Left [Re: lonestar2004]
    #5895006 - 07/24/06 05:22 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Sounds to me like your trying to discredit anyone who disagrees with you by playing the race card. As the author of this article is so obviously trying to do.


--------------------
"Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Anti-Semitism - the New Call of the Left [Re: RosettaStoned]
    #5895058 - 07/24/06 05:36 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

RosettaStoned said:
Sounds to me like your trying to discredit anyone who disagrees with you by playing the race card. As the author of this article is so obviously trying to do.




Ironically, that used to be a liberal tactic


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Anti-Semitism - the New Call of the Left [Re: Basilides]
    #5895202 - 07/24/06 06:28 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Still is.




Phred


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Anti-Semitism - the New Call of the Left [Re: Phred]
    #5895426 - 07/24/06 07:41 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

But now both sides of the aisle get to lay down the card.


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Anti-Semitism - the New Call of the Left [Re: lonestar2004]
    #5895779 - 07/24/06 09:02 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

The study you post merely says certian individuals veil their Anti-Semetism under Anti-Zionism. Of course these two are going to be correlated, but no where does it make the irrational claim that Anti-Zionism is Anti-Semetism. If you're trying to assert that anyone who is against Israel's policies must be Anti-Semetic, this study will not support that view. This would be like saying anyone who didn't vote for Al Sharpton hates blacks.


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Offlinehot48yearolds
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Re: Anti-Semitism - the New Call of the Left [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5896551 - 07/25/06 12:16 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)



--------------------
"Truth is more in the process than in the result."
- J. Krishnamurti




"We ourselves are not an illusory part of Reality; rather are we Reality itself illusorily conceived." Wei Wu Wei


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OfflineRosettaStoned
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Re: Anti-Semitism - the New Call of the Left [Re: Basilides]
    #5898065 - 07/25/06 12:31 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Basilides said:
Quote:

RosettaStoned said:
Sounds to me like your trying to discredit anyone who disagrees with you by playing the race card. As the author of this article is so obviously trying to do.




Ironically, that used to be a liberal tactic




Well I seem to be defined as left leaning and yet never once in my life have I ever tried to play a "race card" in any way shape or form. Nor would I have any reason to.


--------------------
"Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa


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InvisibleHank, FTW
Looking for the Answer

Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 3,912
Re: Anti-Semitism - the New Call of the Left [Re: RosettaStoned]
    #5898122 - 07/25/06 12:50 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

RosettaStoned said:
Quote:

Basilides said:
Quote:

RosettaStoned said:
Sounds to me like your trying to discredit anyone who disagrees with you by playing the race card. As the author of this article is so obviously trying to do.




Ironically, that used to be a liberal tactic




Well I seem to be defined as left leaning and yet never once in my life have I ever tried to play a "race card" in any way shape or form. Nor would I have any reason to.




If your white, the race card doesn't work. I'm assuming your white, because most of our posters are.

That's the irony of the race card, it only works when certain races are discriminated against.


--------------------
Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:


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OfflineRosettaStoned
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Re: Anti-Semitism - the New Call of the Left [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #5900784 - 07/26/06 01:04 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah I know how the race card is used, but it's interesting to see the right wing tactics evolve in front of our eyes. Now you are not only un-patriotic and un-american if you speak out against war, you also hate the entire jewish race.


--------------------
"Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa


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