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MAIA
World-BridgerKartikeya (DftS)


Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 7,396
Loc: Erra - 20 Tauri - M45 Sta...
Last seen: 19 days, 4 hours
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From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU"
#5880407 - 07/20/06 05:26 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Watch out if you're sensitive to mutilation pictures !!!!This is the kind of thing you're not watching in mainstream media ... http://fromisraeltolebanon.info/ Monday, July 17, 2006: Kiryat shmona Israeli girls write messages on a shell at a heavy artillery position firing into civilians inside LebanonV Monday, July 17, 2006: South Lebanon: A Lebanese Child Receiving the message from the Israeli girls! To The Concerned Citizen of The World: "Killing innocent civilians is NOT an act of self-defense. Destroying a sovereign nation is NOT a measured response." Lebanese civilians have been under the constant attack of the state of Israel for several days. The State of Israel, in disregard to international law and the Geneva Convention, is launching a maritime and air siege targeting the entire population of the country. Innocent civilians are being collectively punished in Lebanon by the state of Israel in deliberate acts of terrorism as described in Article 33 of the Geneva Convention. The Lebanese people feel left out by the world that is turning a blind eye on the savagery of the Israeli state. Israel does not seem to be capable of approaching any problem outside the realm of the military power bestowed on it by the government of the United States of America and other western governments. We are writing you this letter in the hope that this massacre is immediately stopped. It is the universal duty of each individual to defend the innocents and expose the truth. The numerous civilian victims of the Israeli operations are increasing by the hour. The viciousness of the attacks has attained terrifying levels where a child has been cut in three while another was half burned. The Israeli war machine, in its blind savagery, is destroying not only our lives but the foundations that could help the civilians survive beyond their massacre. The Israeli Defense Forces are destroying in few hours what Lebanon has spent years and billions of dollars to rebuild. Up until now more than 100 Lebanese civilians have been killed, hundreds wounded, bridges and infrastructure destroyed, refugees are leaving Beirut in droves and worst of all the enforced siege might lead to a human catastrophe in the next 48 hours. There must be an end to this cycle of violence and continuous violation of international laws and basic ethical behavior. Between the blindness of the international community and the deafness of the Arab one, the besieged Lebanese population has no way out. Peace begins with justice Sign the petition to stop the madness here : http://epetition.net/julywar/index.phpMAIA
-------------------- Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala
 Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy. Voltaire
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero


Registered: 06/29/04
Posts: 3,531
Last seen: 4 years, 24 days
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: MAIA]
#5880414 - 07/20/06 05:40 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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like american children don't to the same shit and much worse.
http://www.cursor.org/stories/civilian_deaths.htm
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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rod
Ψ


Registered: 06/29/05
Posts: 3,727
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: MAIA]
#5880424 - 07/20/06 05:44 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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The Lebanese people, dont have really anyone except, themselves to blame. They made the scum part of their Goverment.
So, let them live with the results.  Lie down with dogs, your going to wake up with fleas.
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MAIA
World-BridgerKartikeya (DftS)


Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 7,396
Loc: Erra - 20 Tauri - M45 Sta...
Last seen: 19 days, 4 hours
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: rod]
#5880440 - 07/20/06 06:00 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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huh ! Sure, let's bomb them and kill them until they learn ...
MAIA
-------------------- Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala
 Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy. Voltaire
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GazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 27 days, 2 hours
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: rod]
#5880472 - 07/20/06 06:25 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Out of interest how many innocent civillians do the Israelis have to kill before they become scum in your eyes? Or are they exempt from such labels regardless of their actions?
-------------------- Always Smi2le
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis


Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,460
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 2 hours, 52 minutes
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: GazzBut]
#5880494 - 07/20/06 06:41 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Who started this war?
If Lebanon was so concerned about the safety of its citizens, why did they let Hezbolah fester within their country and government for this long?
There have even been UN resolutions calling for the disarmament of Hezbolah...... Israel has a right to exterminate these worthless scum
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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nakors_junk_bag
Lobster Bisque


Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 2,415
Loc: ethereality
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: SirTripAlot]
#5880496 - 07/20/06 06:42 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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it is so simple?
-------------------- Asshole
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Shampioenier
Storm in aTeaCup


Registered: 07/29/05
Posts: 260
Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
#5880503 - 07/20/06 06:49 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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THEY DID NOT LET HESBOLLAH FESTER. WHEN CORNERED ONE IS APT TO FIGHT BACK YOU DECADENT SPECTATOR WAKE UP
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nakors_junk_bag
Lobster Bisque


Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 2,415
Loc: ethereality
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: Shampioenier]
#5880507 - 07/20/06 06:50 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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yep, I am just a spectator, without mine own thoughts. Please tell me more...
-------------------- Asshole
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Shampioenier
Storm in aTeaCup


Registered: 07/29/05
Posts: 260
Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: Shampioenier]
#5880511 - 07/20/06 06:54 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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gotany oranges?
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nakors_junk_bag
Lobster Bisque


Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 2,415
Loc: ethereality
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: Shampioenier]
#5880513 - 07/20/06 06:57 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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oranges?????
wha????
-------------------- Asshole
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis


Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,460
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 2 hours, 52 minutes
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
#5880514 - 07/20/06 06:57 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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First dont flame me, secondly, who has been cornered?
Israel was not directly attacked the Lebanese people. You think Israel should tolerate kidnapping from a terrorist organization just because if they attack this group, innocent people will die?
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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Shampioenier
Storm in aTeaCup


Registered: 07/29/05
Posts: 260
Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: Shampioenier]
#5880515 - 07/20/06 06:58 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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i spoke of the one who spoke of the festering of Hezbollah. That statement comes from the mouth of a... mmm. pillsbury doughboy who has not had to fight for his freedom himself.
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Shampioenier
Storm in aTeaCup


Registered: 07/29/05
Posts: 260
Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: Shampioenier]
#5880519 - 07/20/06 07:00 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Sorry if you felt flamed. I apologise.. Who is cornered? The oppressed Arab Minorities in the middle east, my friend.
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nakors_junk_bag
Lobster Bisque


Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 2,415
Loc: ethereality
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: SirTripAlot]
#5880520 - 07/20/06 07:00 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
SirTripAlot said: First dont flame me, secondly, who has been cornered?
Israel was not directly attacked the Lebanese people. You think Israel should tolerate kidnapping from a terrorist organization just because if they attack this group, innocent people will die?
how did I "flame you?", and what the hell are you talking about corners for?
this isn't trading spaces u know!
-------------------- Asshole
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Shampioenier
Storm in aTeaCup


Registered: 07/29/05
Posts: 260
Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: Shampioenier]
#5880523 - 07/20/06 07:02 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Remember if you will the IRISH GOING TO UNITED STATES AND FIGHTING FOR FREEDOM FROM BRITISH RULE. ONLY DIFFERENCE IS PALESTINIANS HAVE BEEN FIGHTING THE ZIONIST JEWS FOR 2000 YEARS THE JEWS JUST WONT LET GO BECAUSE THE SPIRIT OF YAHWEH HAS DEPARTED FROM THEM AND IS TRIPPLE DISTILLED IN THE HEART OF THE PHILLISTINES. THE ZIONISTS HAVE BECOME THE PHARAOH AND THE PHILLISTINE THE MOSES. IT IS VERY SIMPLE
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nakors_junk_bag
Lobster Bisque


Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 2,415
Loc: ethereality
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: Shampioenier]
#5880529 - 07/20/06 07:05 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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please, I am intrigued, elaborate.
-------------------- Asshole
Edited by nakors_junk_bag (07/20/06 07:06 AM)
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis


Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,460
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 2 hours, 52 minutes
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: Shampioenier]
#5880530 - 07/20/06 07:05 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shampioenier said: i spoke of the one who spoke of the festering of Hezbollah. That statement comes from the mouth of a... mmm. pillsbury doughboy who has not had to fight for his freedom himself.
Although I was fortunate to live in the Unites States were freedom has already been established, I did enlist in the Marines to help defend it. Your baseless accusations reflect your inability to comprehend anything past your personal arrogance
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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Shampioenier
Storm in aTeaCup


Registered: 07/29/05
Posts: 260
Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: Shampioenier]
#5880531 - 07/20/06 07:07 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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(SORRY) about that pillsbury doughboy comment. I live in South Africa. I know what the FREEDOM FIGHTERS are looking for. NOT DEATH. JUST FREEDOM. AND THEY WILL GET IT JUST LIKE MAHATMA GHANDI AND NELSON MANDELA DID.
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nakors_junk_bag
Lobster Bisque


Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 2,415
Loc: ethereality
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: SirTripAlot]
#5880532 - 07/20/06 07:07 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I toss my hands and arms towards the heavens!
bah humbug.
-------------------- Asshole
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nakors_junk_bag
Lobster Bisque


Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 2,415
Loc: ethereality
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
#5880550 - 07/20/06 07:16 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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why is anyone even concerned about the dynamics between Israeli and Lebanon? I am not sure I understand peoples strategic interest, or even their hyperphysical one, could somone please explain these angles to me.
-------------------- Asshole
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Shampioenier
Storm in aTeaCup


Registered: 07/29/05
Posts: 260
Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
#5880562 - 07/20/06 07:24 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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ah ha Glad to see that there is a glimmer of pride in that chest of yours  Well, firstly, I can assure, I have been humble more than anyone else as ever been, which is why I have received Divine Ordinance by the Almighty I and I, Jah weh All aHweh.
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Shampioenier
Storm in aTeaCup


Registered: 07/29/05
Posts: 260
Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: Shampioenier]
#5880566 - 07/20/06 07:27 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Why interested in what is happening there; it is essentially the difference between RIGHT AND WRONG, GOOD AND EVIL, Nakor... Welcome to the Cruel World.
And of course, having GOOD overcome EVIL, and resurrecting the oppressed so that for once in their 'life' they may taste freedom.
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nakors_junk_bag
Lobster Bisque


Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 2,415
Loc: ethereality
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: Shampioenier]
#5880575 - 07/20/06 07:31 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shampioenier said: ah ha Glad to see that there is a glimmer of pride in that chest of yours  Well, firstly, I can assure, I have been humble more than anyone else as ever been, which is why I have received Divine Ordinance by the Almighty I and I, Jah weh All aHweh.
Why interested in what is happening there; it is essentially the difference between RIGHT AND WRONG, GOOD AND EVIL, Nakor... Welcome to the Cruel World.
And of course, having GOOD overcome EVIL, and resurrecting the oppressed so that for once in their 'life' they may taste freedom.
We tolerate a whole large heap of bullshit here, in the PAL forum, but, these last two threads of yours have been both condescending and without merit. Please, tell me more?
-------------------- Asshole
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rod
Ψ


Registered: 06/29/05
Posts: 3,727
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: MAIA]
#5880584 - 07/20/06 07:36 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
MAIA said: huh ! Sure, let's bomb them and kill them until they learn ...
MAIA
Should the Jewish people just sit back, and let "their" men, women, and children get attacked on buses? I think not.
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Shampioenier
Storm in aTeaCup


Registered: 07/29/05
Posts: 260
Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
#5880587 - 07/20/06 07:37 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Condescending and without merit. I concur Nakor. I apologise. Do you know the recipe for real gummiberrijuice like me?
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Shampioenier
Storm in aTeaCup


Registered: 07/29/05
Posts: 260
Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: Shampioenier]
#5880593 - 07/20/06 07:44 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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UM PASSIVE RESISTANCE MAHATMA GHANDI. YES THEY SHOULD EVERYONE JUST FUCKING SIT BACK AND RELAX. THAT IS THE BASIC TENET OF PEACE.
YES. IF SOMEONE HITS YOU. LET THEM. AS MUCH AS THEY LIKE. YOU CAN TAKE MY BODY BUT NOT MY SPIRIT.
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nakors_junk_bag
Lobster Bisque


Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 2,415
Loc: ethereality
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: Shampioenier]
#5880597 - 07/20/06 07:46 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shampioenier said: UM PASSIVE RESISTANCE MAHATMA GHANDI. YES THEY SHOULD EVERYONE JUST FUCKING SIT BACK AND RELAX. THAT IS THE BASIC TENET OF PEACE.
YES. IF SOMEONE HITS YOU. LET THEM. AS MUCH AS THEY LIKE. YOU CAN TAKE MY BODY BUT NOT MY SPIRIT.
yeah, "you know me, a pacifist, please tell me more."
-------------------- Asshole
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Shampioenier
Storm in aTeaCup


Registered: 07/29/05
Posts: 260
Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
#5880602 - 07/20/06 07:49 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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don't you have an ASSHOLE NAKOR? OR ARE YOU UNHOLY???
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Shampioenier
Storm in aTeaCup


Registered: 07/29/05
Posts: 260
Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: Shampioenier]
#5880610 - 07/20/06 07:51 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Shampioenier
Storm in aTeaCup


Registered: 07/29/05
Posts: 260
Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: Shampioenier]
#5880615 - 07/20/06 07:53 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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sorry about that... forgive me pleaz...
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MAIA
World-BridgerKartikeya (DftS)


Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 7,396
Loc: Erra - 20 Tauri - M45 Sta...
Last seen: 19 days, 4 hours
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: rod]
#5880671 - 07/20/06 08:24 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
rod said:
Quote:
MAIA said: huh ! Sure, let's bomb them and kill them until they learn ...
MAIA
Should the Jewish people just sit back, and let "their" men, women, and children get attacked on buses? I think not.
Neither do I. But do you really think the answer for this problem is even more violence ? Mahatma once said that if we abide by the rule "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth", the whole world would soon be blind and toothless. His words couldn't be more correct, judging by todays events in that region.
MAIA
-------------------- Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala
 Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy. Voltaire
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 3 months, 11 days
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: Shampioenier]
#5880675 - 07/20/06 08:24 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
i spoke of the one who spoke of the festering of Hezbollah. That statement comes from the mouth of a... mmm. pillsbury doughboy who has not had to fight for his freedom himself.
This is an official warning. The next infraction will result in a ban. Also, please try to calm yourself when conducting debate.
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nakors_junk_bag
Lobster Bisque


Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 2,415
Loc: ethereality
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: MAIA]
#5880681 - 07/20/06 08:28 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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MAIA
Neither do I. But do you really think the answer for this problem is even more violence ? Mahatma once said that if we abide by the rule "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth", the whole world would soon be blind and toothless. His words couldn't be more correct, judging by todays events in that region.
MAIA
-------------------- Asshole
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Vvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: rod]
#5880692 - 07/20/06 08:39 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
rod said:
Quote:
MAIA said: huh ! Sure, let's bomb them and kill them until they learn ...
MAIA
Should the Jewish people just sit back, and let "their" men, women, and children get attacked on buses? I think not.
Israel should target the terrorists then, not the civilians of Lebanon who have done nothing. Collective punishment of an entire population will only create a tolerance for more attacks againsts Israel.
Bombing civilian infrastructure, hospitals, and neighborhoods will not create peace with Israel.
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nakors_junk_bag
Lobster Bisque


Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 2,415
Loc: ethereality
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: Vvellum]
#5880698 - 07/20/06 08:44 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
bi0 said:
Quote:
rod said:
Quote:
MAIA said: huh ! Sure, let's bomb them and kill them until they learn ...
MAIA
Should the Jewish people just sit back, and let "their" men, women, and children get attacked on buses? I think not.
Israel should target the terrorists then, not the civilians of Lebanon who have done nothing. Collective punishment of an entire population will only create a tolerance for more attacks against Israel.
unless of course those hezbollah are wearing the guise of civilians, and the civilians with full understanding of this allow it to, oh, maybe, be.
ah, they may, I know it is hard to imagine, support them zealots, the zealotous hezbollah who want their land of mild honey.
where is you head at?
-------------------- Asshole
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nakors_junk_bag
Lobster Bisque


Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 2,415
Loc: ethereality
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
#5880700 - 07/20/06 08:46 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I been in lock up so long, I love a good argument. You would be surprised at the number of smart people in jail, but even more surprised at the number of idiots out of jail  Thanks.
-------------------- Asshole
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MAIA
World-BridgerKartikeya (DftS)


Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 7,396
Loc: Erra - 20 Tauri - M45 Sta...
Last seen: 19 days, 4 hours
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
#5880724 - 07/20/06 09:00 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
unless of course those hezbollah are wearing the guise of civilians, and the civilians with full understanding of this allow it to, oh, maybe, be.
yeah, and maybe not ... too bad life can depend in such "maybe's" 
MAIA
-------------------- Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala
 Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy. Voltaire
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Vvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
#5880741 - 07/20/06 09:11 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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then err on the side of caution, not on the side of mass murder.
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nakors_junk_bag
Lobster Bisque


Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 2,415
Loc: ethereality
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: Vvellum]
#5880762 - 07/20/06 09:18 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
bi0 said: then err on the side of caution, not on the side of mass murder.
yep, let us "err on the side of CAUTION".
I dare you to take it a step further and consider the blood that would cover your hands if they were hidden amongst you, without your knowledge, bam they strike, people die and you allowed it cause you were cautious.
you really have no idea what cautious means, especially when you compare actual losses verses potential losses(X).
It seems so easy to me,
would you rather have a bunch of dead soldiers and a bunch of functioning citizens, or a bunch or soldiers alive and slaves as citizens?
Even I must consider what I am saying,
-------------------- Asshole
Edited by nakors_junk_bag (07/20/06 01:33 PM)
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rod
Ψ


Registered: 06/29/05
Posts: 3,727
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: Vvellum]
#5880782 - 07/20/06 09:31 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
bi0 said:
Quote:
rod said:
Quote:
MAIA said: huh ! Sure, let's bomb them and kill them until they learn ...
MAIA
Should the Jewish people just sit back, and let "their" men, women, and children get attacked on buses? I think not.
Israel should target the terrorists then, not the civilians of Lebanon who have done nothing. Collective punishment of an entire population will only create a tolerance for more attacks against Israel.
Bombing civilian infrastructure, hospitals, and neighborhoods will not create peace with Israel.
It would be great if Israel, could tell the difference, but they are so intertwined, that theres no way to tell.
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Hank, FTW
Looking for the Answer

Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 3,912
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: rod]
#5880794 - 07/20/06 09:38 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Israel could march through Lebanon and target Hezbola, but they would rather just bomb the country to hell, and let god sort it out. They are cowards, and believe 1000000000 Arab lives < 1 Israeli life.
Israel's arrogance and disregard for the worlds wishes is starting to alienate them, and they are not in a good spot to be isolated.
-------------------- Capliberty: "I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "
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Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 18 days
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: rod]
#5880820 - 07/20/06 09:48 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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And that's the 800 pound gorilla in the room ignored by those sobbing about Israel's actions -- the fact that Hezbollah sets up operations in the middle of civilians.
Same deal with Hamas -- look at the pictures pumped out by the AP. Every shot of Hamas operatives I've seen in the last few weeks shows them surrounded by kids. They operate out of schools, mosques, hospitals, and even ambulances. They (and Hezbollah) deliberately violate the concept of Sanctuary. But who receives condemnation for the ancillary casualties?
Need I ask?
It's been a while since I posted a link to Bill Whittle, but it's time some folks here reviewed this essay of his --
http://www.ejectejecteject.com/archives/000125.html
Phred
--------------------
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GazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 27 days, 2 hours
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: SirTripAlot]
#5880837 - 07/20/06 09:57 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I asked:
Quote:
Out of interest how many innocent civillians do the Israelis have to kill before they become scum in your eyes? Or are they exempt from such labels regardless of their actions?
You answered:
Quote:
Who started this war?
If Lebanon was so concerned about the safety of its citizens, why did they let Hezbolah fester within their country and government for this long?
There have even been UN resolutions calling for the disarmament of Hezbolah...... Israel has a right to exterminate these worthless scum
'He started it...'The plaintive cry of the child in the playground. Surely not a sound and rational basis for international relations. Sadly it is an accurate reflection of much of what we see today.
Im going to make a rather bold and sweeping statement here: Anyone who cannot see that it is the extremists on BOTH sides of this conflict who are at fault and are causing pain and suffering for the innocents on BOTH sides of this conflict is a complete and utter moran!
-------------------- Always Smi2le
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis


Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,460
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 2 hours, 52 minutes
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: GazzBut]
#5880878 - 07/20/06 10:14 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
GazzBut said: I asked:
Quote:
Out of interest how many innocent civillians do the Israelis have to kill before they become scum in your eyes? Or are they exempt from such labels regardless of their actions?
You answered:
Quote:
Who started this war?
If Lebanon was so concerned about the safety of its citizens, why did they let Hezbolah fester within their country and government for this long?
There have even been UN resolutions calling for the disarmament of Hezbolah...... Israel has a right to exterminate these worthless scum
'He started it...'The plaintive cry of the child in the playground. Surely not a sound and rational basis for international relations. Sadly it is an accurate reflection of much of what we see today.
Im going to make a rather bold and sweeping statement here: Anyone who cannot see that it is the extremists on BOTH sides of this conflict who are at fault and are causing pain and suffering for the innocents on BOTH sides of this conflict is a complete and utter moran!
Your correlation between the feelings of a child on a playground and the actions of Israel are false.
Violating a nation that is sovereign, by kidnapping its military personnel, is by no means equal to hurting a child's feelings. The effect of the latter does not result in bloodshed and war.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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Hank, FTW
Looking for the Answer

Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 3,912
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: SirTripAlot]
#5880917 - 07/20/06 10:30 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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And Israel has not violated the sovereignty of Lebanon??? I am not sure on this, but I remember reading those soldiers were IN Lebanon when they were kidnapped. I could be wrong, so if anyone can verify that they were actually in Israel, I would appreciate it.
You heard about Israel flying warplanes over Syria I'm sure?
-------------------- Capliberty: "I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "
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quiver
freedrug


Registered: 10/25/05
Posts: 8,047
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: Hank, FTW]
#5880932 - 07/20/06 10:35 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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those kidnapped soldiers are dead probably,i wonder what would have happened if hezbolah/lebanon just admitted it and handed in the heznuts responsible for it? they had that choice before the bombing started didnt they?
--------------------
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Hank, FTW
Looking for the Answer

Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 3,912
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: quiver]
#5880945 - 07/20/06 10:40 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Lebanon had NO choice. They did not take the prisoners, I do realize hezbola is a part of Lebanon but lets be real. It is more apart of Syria and Iran IMO. Lebanon can do nothing to stop this, they don't have the prisoners, and Israel obviously won't listen to them.
-------------------- Capliberty: "I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "
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quiver
freedrug


Registered: 10/25/05
Posts: 8,047
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: Hank, FTW]
#5880969 - 07/20/06 10:47 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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i don;t know about that,the lebonese arent that hopeless,they have/had an army they have jails and a criminal system so they can lock up their own crims if they really wanted too
lebonese people here who escaped are starting to say "the hezbolah were kind of heroes fighting israel for them now" but they were a family who lost friends(australian citizens) in the bombings and are angry
i don't think the lebanese are telling the whole truth just like any other country doesnt
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nakors_junk_bag
Lobster Bisque


Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 2,415
Loc: ethereality
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: Phred]
#5881455 - 07/20/06 01:37 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Phred said: And that's the 800 pound gorilla in the room ignored by those sobbing about Israel's actions -- the fact that Hezbollah sets up operations in the middle of civilians.
Same deal with Hamas -- look at the pictures pumped out by the AP. Every shot of Hamas operatives I've seen in the last few weeks shows them surrounded by kids. They operate out of schools, mosques, hospitals, and even ambulances. They (and Hezbollah) deliberately violate the concept of Sanctuary. But who receives condemnation for the ancillary casualties?
Need I ask?
It's been a while since I posted a link to Bill Whittle, but it's time some folks here reviewed this essay of his --
http://www.ejectejecteject.com/archives/000125.html
Phred
It may not be always you and I agree, but this post of yous is so damned crucial, and right on the money.
-------------------- Asshole
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Hank, FTW
Looking for the Answer

Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 3,912
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
#5881471 - 07/20/06 01:41 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
nakors_junk_bag said:
Quote:
Phred said: And that's the 800 pound gorilla in the room ignored by those sobbing about Israel's actions -- the fact that Hezbollah sets up operations in the middle of civilians.
Same deal with Hamas -- look at the pictures pumped out by the AP. Every shot of Hamas operatives I've seen in the last few weeks shows them surrounded by kids. They operate out of schools, mosques, hospitals, and even ambulances. They (and Hezbollah) deliberately violate the concept of Sanctuary. But who receives condemnation for the ancillary casualties?
Need I ask?
It's been a while since I posted a link to Bill Whittle, but it's time some folks here reviewed this essay of his --
http://www.ejectejecteject.com/archives/000125.html
Phred
It may not be always you and I agree, but this post of yous is so damned crucial, and right on the money.
Yeah, hezbola should just concentrate themselves in a small area so Israel can take them all out at once. If hezbola had even 1/4 of the military power Israel had, they wouldn't have to use such tactics. I am not saying its right, but look at it from their point of view.
-------------------- Capliberty: "I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "
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nakors_junk_bag
Lobster Bisque


Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 2,415
Loc: ethereality
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: Hank, FTW]
#5881486 - 07/20/06 01:47 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
alpharedecho said:
Quote:
nakors_junk_bag said:
Quote:
Phred said: And that's the 800 pound gorilla in the room ignored by those sobbing about Israel's actions -- the fact that Hezbollah sets up operations in the middle of civilians.
Same deal with Hamas -- look at the pictures pumped out by the AP. Every shot of Hamas operatives I've seen in the last few weeks shows them surrounded by kids. They operate out of schools, mosques, hospitals, and even ambulances. They (and Hezbollah) deliberately violate the concept of Sanctuary. But who receives condemnation for the ancillary casualties?
Need I ask?
It's been a while since I posted a link to Bill Whittle, but it's time some folks here reviewed this essay of his --
http://www.ejectejecteject.com/archives/000125.html
Phred
It may not be always you and I agree, but this post of yous is so damned crucial, and right on the money.
Yeah, hezbola should just concentrate themselves in a small area so Israel can take them all out at once. If hezbola had even 1/4 of the military power Israel had, they wouldn't have to use such tactics. I am not saying its right, but look at it from their point of view.
this doesn't make any sense.
-------------------- Asshole
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Hank, FTW
Looking for the Answer

Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 3,912
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
#5881571 - 07/20/06 02:23 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
nakors_junk_bag said:
Quote:
alpharedecho said:
Quote:
nakors_junk_bag said:
Quote:
Phred said: And that's the 800 pound gorilla in the room ignored by those sobbing about Israel's actions -- the fact that Hezbollah sets up operations in the middle of civilians.
Same deal with Hamas -- look at the pictures pumped out by the AP. Every shot of Hamas operatives I've seen in the last few weeks shows them surrounded by kids. They operate out of schools, mosques, hospitals, and even ambulances. They (and Hezbollah) deliberately violate the concept of Sanctuary. But who receives condemnation for the ancillary casualties?
Need I ask?
It's been a while since I posted a link to Bill Whittle, but it's time some folks here reviewed this essay of his --
http://www.ejectejecteject.com/archives/000125.html
Phred
It may not be always you and I agree, but this post of yous is so damned crucial, and right on the money.
[/sarcasm] Yeah, hezbola should just concentrate themselves in a small area so Israel can take them all out at once. [/sarcasm] If hezbola had even 1/4 of the military power Israel had, they wouldn't have to use such tactics(embedding in civilian populations). I am not saying its right, but look at it from their point of view.
this doesn't make any sense.
Sorry, I was typing with out thinking, check now.
-------------------- Capliberty: "I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "
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GazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 27 days, 2 hours
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: SirTripAlot]
#5881595 - 07/20/06 02:35 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
our correlation between the feelings of a child on a playground and the actions of Israel are false.
I was actually commenting on your justification.
Quote:
Violating a nation that is sovereign, by kidnapping its military personnel, is by no means equal to hurting a child's feelings. The effect of the latter does not result in bloodshed and war.
You speak of cause and effect but there is no cause and effect here. Are you suggesting that the cause,the kidnap of Israelis soldiers, must lead to only one effect,Israel's disprortiante slaughter of innocent lebanese? That is utter nonsense.
What if the Israeli's taken hostage were civillians? how would this change your view of Israel's actions?
-------------------- Always Smi2le
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Hank, FTW
Looking for the Answer

Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 3,912
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: GazzBut]
#5881602 - 07/20/06 02:39 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Israeli's have taken plenty of civilian prisoners as "bargaining chips". I have also learned that these 2 Israeli soldiers were taken hostage while kidnapped on Lebanese soil. I am looking for a source on this to link to, but its hard to find in the fair and balanced news sources out there. You will note, they never said those 2 prisoners were taken from Israeli soil.
-------------------- Capliberty: "I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "
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Meat_Log_Smurf
FumbDuck

Registered: 01/31/03
Posts: 1,144
Loc: BFE
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: MAIA]
#5881618 - 07/20/06 02:48 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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The Lebanese people (Northern Lebanon) HATE WITH AN ABSOLUTE FUCKING PASSION Hezbollah. Hezbollah is basically a group of Syrian, Iranian, and Palistinian terrorist that inhabit a section of land in southern Lebanon. Also don't you think that if Hezbollah hadn't had such a CLEAR HISTORY of being little bitches and hiding weapons like mines, rockets, grenades, ammo within the civilian population they might have a little more credit in the worlds eyes. This is a fact and you can try and dispute it all day but you won't be able to, sorry. The simple truth is they will only be happy if the Jews are pushed into the ocean. My wife is Lebanese and her parents fled Lebanon when the Syria decided they wanted to take up a permanent residence in Lebanon.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: Hank, FTW]
#5882590 - 07/20/06 08:25 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
alpharedecho said: Lebanon had NO choice. They did not take the prisoners, I do realize hezbola is a part of Lebanon but lets be real. It is more apart of Syria and Iran IMO. Lebanon can do nothing to stop this, they don't have the prisoners, and Israel obviously won't listen to them.
You are incorrect on your first part. Hezbollah is a part of Lebanon and they are either a nation or they are not. Since they are, they are responsible for the actions of a significant part of their country. That a part of their country is extra state actors is irrelevant. They have an obligation to assist the Israelis in the apprehension of these criminals. They either help arrest them or they are complicit. You cannot expect not to be held responsible for the vipers nest you harbor.
--------------------
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Vvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: zappaisgod]
#5882770 - 07/20/06 08:56 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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the government of lebanon might be culpable, but not civilians. that said, israel is engaging in collective punishment of all, regardless of involvment.
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Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 18 days
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: Vvellum]
#5882801 - 07/20/06 09:06 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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And there we have the solution to the arms race. No need to spend money on precision guided bombs and increasingly accurate artillery -- just spray unguided rockets willy nilly from launch locations near civilians with the knowledge that your opponent can't fire back. Adopt the "human shield" strategy and you're golden.
Phred
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis


Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,460
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 2 hours, 52 minutes
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: Phred]
#5882984 - 07/20/06 10:12 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Gazzbut stated:
You speak of cause and effect but there is no cause and effect here. Are you suggesting that the cause,the kidnap of Israelis soldiers, must lead to only one effect,Israel's disprortiante slaughter of innocent lebanese? That is utter nonsense.
What if the Israeli's taken hostage were civillians? how would this change your view of Israel's actions?
^^^^^^^^^^^^ If Resolution 1559 was followed through by Lebanon and the rest of the Arabic nations, would Hezbollah be in power now? Innocent people die in war. It sucks, buts thats why it is war.
And to answer your question, weather its civilians or government personnel.....they have a right to take down anyone who chooses that course of action.
Utopian ideals dont stop bullets or rockets, I guess I am in your "moron" category
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
Edited by SirTripAlot (07/20/06 10:13 PM)
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GazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 27 days, 2 hours
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: zappaisgod]
#5883461 - 07/21/06 01:32 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
You are incorrect on your first part. Hezbollah is a part of Lebanon and they are either a nation or they are not. Since they are, they are responsible for the actions of a significant part of their country. That a part of their country is extra state actors is irrelevant. They have an obligation to assist the Israelis in the apprehension of these criminals. They either help arrest them or they are complicit. You cannot expect not to be held responsible for the vipers nest you harbor.
So you would have whole heartedly backed the UK government if they had decided to bomb the Republic of Ireland in response to IRA activities on the UK mainland?
You wouldnt have been outraged if the UK had bombed Dublin into the ground killing countless innocents?
-------------------- Always Smi2le
Edited by GazzBut (07/21/06 01:42 AM)
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GazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 27 days, 2 hours
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: SirTripAlot]
#5883474 - 07/21/06 01:39 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
If Resolution 1559 was followed through by Lebanon and the rest of the Arabic nations, would Hezbollah be in power now? Innocent people die in war. It sucks, buts thats why it is war.
You are on very shaky ground when you start throwing around non-compliance of UN resolutions as a defence of Israeli actions.
Quote:
And to answer your question, weather its civilians or government personnel.....they have a right to take down anyone who chooses that course of action.
Utopian ideals dont stop bullets or rockets, I guess I am in your "moron" category
You talk as if Israel have had no other option open to them in trying to resolve this short lived hostage situation. Have you ever heard of John MCcarthy or Brian Keenan?
Quote:
I guess I am in your "moron" category
If you fail to see that there are extermists on both sides of this equation who are making the situation worse for innocents on both sides then yes Im afraid you are.
But to be honest Im sure you dont really think Israel are entirely blameless and that their response is completely fair, well balanced and intelligently thought out.
-------------------- Always Smi2le
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dtrak
Stranger

Registered: 02/08/06
Posts: 16
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: GazzBut]
#5886634 - 07/22/06 03:43 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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i am ban on Mycotopia to have posted this link :-D
http://fromisraeltolebanon.info/
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phi1618
old hand

Registered: 02/14/04
Posts: 4,102
Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: dtrak]
#5887012 - 07/22/06 09:09 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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This attack by Israel on Lebanon is immoral and impractical.
It strengthens the enemies of Israel and civilization and further alienates those people within Lebanon and throughout the Middle East who might support a pragmatic detente with Israel in the interest of promoting peace and prosperity. While in the short term Hezbollah may be weakened or disarmed, its goals - the destruction of Israel and the establishment of a theocratic state in Lebanon and beyond - and ideals will receive a massive public relations boost, and many people who have been opposed to Hezbollah, such as Lebanese Christians (very roughly 40% of the population) or non-Shi'a Muslims (Marionites, Druze, Sunnis - unknown proportion, but probably 30% or more), may now find a common cause in a common enemy.
At the end of the 15-year Lebanese civil war in 1991, Hezbollah was allowed to keep its weapons to combat the Israeli occupation in southern Lebanon. The Israeli withdraw in 2000 had mixed implications for Hezbollah politically - on the one hand, it was a great victory for the organization; on the other, it removed the justification for the continued existence of their para-military wing and supplied ammunition for those in Lebanese politics who would disarm Hezbollah to place them on a level with the other political parties.
Although the Lebanese government was still weak before the recent war - too divided and uncertain to disarm Hezbollah - the same political groups that successfully pushed the Syrians out last year (over the objections of many Lebanese) would support the disarmament of Hezbollah. However, a strong and stable independent state would be necessary to accomplish that, something that could not be achieved before 2005 due to the twin occupations of Syria and Israel, and which had not been accomplished in the single year that passed before the Israeli invasion.
Of course, the dream of a strong Lebanese state capable of disarming Hezbollah and normalizing relations with Israel is now finished. The infrastructure that could have supplied the government with the necessary tourist and export revenue to become strong and stable has been destroyed, and Israel has hardened the hearts of those people who might have supported a real peace by killing their friends and family.
Hezbollah has long been a real threat to Israel - its members are deeply integrated in the social fabric of Southern Shi'a/Palestinian Lebanon, are well armed by Iran and Syria, and are wholly bent on the destruction of Israel (over the past 10 years they've pretty much shut up about establishing an Islamic state in Lebanon). There is no easy or moral way for the Israelis to rid themselves of this problem, and direct action may accomplish the short term goal of preventing kidnappings and rockets.
However, this war ends the hope for a stable, prosperous, and friendly Lebanon in the coming years and provides a tremendous boost for those in the Arab world who believe that there can be no peace with Israel. It makes me suspect that those in charge of Israel have no interest in peaceful relations with stable neighbors, but would rather keep their neighbors weak, dysfunctional, and violent to provide continued justification for the militarization of Israeli society and the massive foreign military and economic aid that Israel receives.
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Vvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: phi1618]
#5887201 - 07/22/06 10:58 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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most excellent analysis. thanks.
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zorbman
blarrr


Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: Vvellum]
#5889722 - 07/23/06 03:54 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Stop the fighting Now. Both sides. This is idiotic.
No one should employ reason in defense of their lower nature. That is obscene.
Go on, people. See where it gets you..
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
Edited by zorbman (07/23/06 03:59 AM)
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: GazzBut]
#5889920 - 07/23/06 08:39 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
GazzBut said:
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You are incorrect on your first part. Hezbollah is a part of Lebanon and they are either a nation or they are not. Since they are, they are responsible for the actions of a significant part of their country. That a part of their country is extra state actors is irrelevant. They have an obligation to assist the Israelis in the apprehension of these criminals. They either help arrest them or they are complicit. You cannot expect not to be held responsible for the vipers nest you harbor.
So you would have whole heartedly backed the UK government if they had decided to bomb the Republic of Ireland in response to IRA activities on the UK mainland?
You wouldnt have been outraged if the UK had bombed Dublin into the ground killing countless innocents?
From my recollection of those times, Ireland was a wholly owned subsidiary of Great Britain, fully occupied by British troops. Now, why don't you merrily explain to me how this is similar to Lebanon.
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GazzBut
Refraction

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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: zappaisgod]
#5890200 - 07/23/06 11:04 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
From my recollection of those times, Ireland was a wholly owned subsidiary of Great Britain, fully occupied by British troops. Now, why don't you merrily explain to me how this is similar to Lebanon.
Then your recollection is wrong. Northern Ireland was and still is a 'wholly owned subsidiary' (gotta love the corporate speak!) However Southern Ireland or the Republic of Ireland has been an independent state since 1922.
Now why dont you merrily answer my first, correctly stated question?
Btw Zappa, google is your friend..your recollection obviously isnt!
-------------------- Always Smi2le
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: GazzBut]
#5890290 - 07/23/06 11:55 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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So I googled and went to my friend wikipedia and found this: "The subsequent IRA was dedicated to the armed overthrow of both Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland by force of arms and their replacement with an all-Ireland republic." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_IRA That would be the provisional IRA which was involved in the attacks, not the official IRA. The official IRA was part of R o Ireland's government, the provisional IRA was not. Now does that seem like the situation in Lebanon, where Hezbollah is part of the government? No, it does not. And tell me again, which part of Lebanon was occupied by Israel that these fine Lebanese patriots were rebelling against when they attacked Israel.
And no, I would not have supported the wholesale British bombing of Ireland. What I did in fact support was that Britain just get the fuck out of all of Ireland, fucking arrogant limey bastards forcing the partition of a perfectly good country. BRITS OUT.
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GazzBut
Refraction

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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: zappaisgod]
#5890440 - 07/23/06 12:49 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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ha! ha! ha! why dont you just admit you have been pwned and take it like a man?
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That would be the provisional IRA which was involved in the attacks, not the official IRA. The official IRA was part of R o Ireland's government, the provisional IRA was not.
Yes entirely seperate orginisations. No links at all between the two groups...
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Now does that seem like the situation in Lebanon, where Hezbollah is part of the government? No, it does not. And tell me again, which part of Lebanon was occupied by Israel that these fine Lebanese patriots were rebelling against when they attacked Israel.
I never suggested the situations were entirely identical. I thought that was fairly obvious? However the IRA launched countless bombs on the UK mainland and killed many civillians. My point was that attacking a country is not the only response that can be made in these kind of situations.
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And no, I would not have supported the wholesale British bombing of Ireland.
So two people get kidnapped and a handful of people die in rocket attacks and you support the kind of barbaric response Israel are currently employing but the same kind of response is not acceptable if its against the irish in response to countless attacks which killed hundreds of civillians and soliders and posed a definite threat to our "homeland security"? What if we had only bombed villages where we knew there were bomb factories etc. Would that have been ok?
It's painfully obvious that your inconsistency is due to the fact that the Lebanese are middle east 'rag heads' im your eyes whereas the Irish are alot more closer to your own cultural identity. Take a deep breath and admit it, you might feel better for it!
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What I did in fact support was that Britain just get the fuck out of all of Ireland, fucking arrogant limey bastards forcing the partition of a perfectly good country. BRITS OUT.
Well at least we agree on something Zappa. Its a disgrace what happened in Ireland. Although its not quite as simple as us just getting out now. We should have just never taken the place over in the first place.
I dont get blinded by flags and patriotism into automatically condoning the actions of my country.
-------------------- Always Smi2le
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: GazzBut]
#5890541 - 07/23/06 01:22 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
GazzBut said: ha! ha! ha! why dont you just admit you have been pwned and take it like a man?
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That would be the provisional IRA which was involved in the attacks, not the official IRA. The official IRA was part of R o Ireland's government, the provisional IRA was not.
Yes entirely seperate orginisations. No links at all between the two groups...
What are you talking about? They hated each other and were at total cross purposesQuote:
Quote:
Now does that seem like the situation in Lebanon, where Hezbollah is part of the government? No, it does not. And tell me again, which part of Lebanon was occupied by Israel that these fine Lebanese patriots were rebelling against when they attacked Israel.
I never suggested the situations were entirely identical. I thought that was fairly obvious? However the IRA launched countless bombs on the UK mainland and killed many civillians. My point was that attacking a country is not the only response that can be made in these kind of situations.
You thought they were identical enough to draw the fallacious analogy. What response would you have made in Lebanon? Ankle grab?Quote:
Quote:
And no, I would not have supported the wholesale British bombing of Ireland.
So two people get kidnapped and a handful of people die in rocket attacks and you support the kind of barbaric response Israel are currently employing but the same kind of response is not acceptable if its against the irish in response to countless attacks which killed hundreds of civillians and soliders and posed a definite threat to our "homeland security"? What if we had only bombed villages where we knew there were bomb factories etc. Would that have been ok?
I thought you had previously admitted that the situations were different. Let me refresh your memory; "I never suggested the situations were entirely identical." They aren't even close. You also used the word "launched" in reference to IRA bombs. Interesting. I don't recall any daily launch of hundreds of rockets into England. Nor do I recall any incident wherein the IRA went into England and kidnapped soldiers. But, hey, maybe my memeory aint so good. I'm sure you'll refresh it. Regardless, what Hezbollah was doing was completely intolerable and the Lebanese government did nothing to curtail themQuote:
It's painfully obvious that your inconsistency is due to the fact that the Lebanese are middle east 'rag heads' im your eyes whereas the Irish are alot more closer to your own cultural identity. Take a deep breath and admit it, you might feel better for it!
Um, no. I have only one beef with the Lebanese and that is that they have allowed themselves to be co-opted by Syria, Iran and a terrorist organization. The Lebanese army should be ASSISTING Israel in the capture of the criminals. Unfortunately, they are not. One of Israel's requests is that the Lebanese army and not Hezbollah be stationed on the border. Hezbollah must go and Lebanon has to assist. Tough choices for Lebanon, but they have to make them. Otherwise, they are doomed to being co-opted by bad guys. With 'em or agin 'em, they have to make a stand. Do I call you an anti-semite for criticizing Israel? No, I do not, although there is no shortage of anti-semitic retards who are members here. Quote:
Quote:
What I did in fact support was that Britain just get the fuck out of all of Ireland, fucking arrogant limey bastards forcing the partition of a perfectly good country. BRITS OUT.
Well at least we agree on something Zappa. Its a disgrace what happened in Ireland. Although its not quite as simple as us just getting out now. We should have just never taken the place over in the first place.
I dont get blinded by flags and patriotism into automatically condoning the actions of my country.
Let's not forget, and gloss over, that the only similarity between Ireland and the middle east is that all the bullshit is over religion. I don't get blinded by flags either, contrary to what the America haters may think. My biggest complaint with our policy is that we don't do enough about it, which encourages assholes.
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GazzBut
Refraction

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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: zappaisgod]
#5890621 - 07/23/06 01:48 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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What are you talking about? They hated each other and were at total cross purposes
Most memebers of the real IRA were ex members of the provisional IRA.
Check your facts.
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You thought they were identical enough to draw the fallacious analogy. What response would you have made in Lebanon? Ankle grab?
The main point I have been trying to make is that Israel have not been forced into this action. They could have chosen a different course. Many people on this board seem to believe there is real cause and effect at work here which is so breathtakingly stupid that I was merely trying to highlight this fact. My analogy was perfectly satisfactory for this point.
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Regardless, what Hezbollah was doing was completely intolerable and the Lebanese government did nothing to curtail them
The Lebanese government is not a strong or well established government. It is not a simple thing for them to control Hezbollah. Israel's actions mean that it will be nearly impossible for them to do so now.
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Um, no. I have only one beef with the Lebanese and that is that they have allowed themselves to be co-opted by Syria, Iran and a terrorist organization. The Lebanese army should be ASSISTING Israel in the capture of the criminals.
I agree the influence of Syria and Iran is not a good thing. Perhaps the Lebanese government also agree but find it difficult to extricate themselves from what is a very complex situation.
Are you really sure Israel's current actions are the most positive way forward towards peace and stability in the middle east?
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Let's not forget, and gloss over, that the only similarity between Ireland and the middle east is that all the bullshit is over religion.
Lets not forget the terrorist attacks and the deaths of many civillians and soldiers Zappa.
-------------------- Always Smi2le
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: GazzBut]
#5890635 - 07/23/06 01:55 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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So, we come to this. What is it that you think Israel should have done? I am at a loss to come up with anything other than this. This is actually a whirlwind somewhat of their own making due to previous "prisoner" exchanges wherein they gave up 100 criminals for one businessman or one pilot. If I were one of these kidnapped soldiers I'd be pretty pissed off that there were ever any "prisoner" exchanges. But we're not talking about the past, we're talking about now. What do you think they should do? Not what do you think they shouldn't do. What do you think they should do?
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure


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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: zappaisgod]
#5890769 - 07/23/06 02:25 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I think the bastards should make peace with their neighbors. They stole the land they're on from the people of Palestine and kicked them off farms and homes they had owned for generations. The fact of the matter is, any displaced people have a right of resistance under international law and that's what they're doing. Another fact is Israel kills ten times as many innocent civilians in the occupied territories and now Lebanon as the resistance kills in Israel. All of it could end if Israel will pull back to the pre 1967 borders and let the Palestinian people have a state, but no, Israel is copying what they learned from Hitler and wants to kill off their enemies instead of living together in peace. As long as they remain arrogant and genocidal, they will live in a state of war, and American citizens will be forced to pay for it all with our taxes in order to satisfy the voting block of Christians who think Israel is 'God's chosen people'. The whole thing makes me sick.
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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downforpot
Stranger

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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: RogerRabbit]
#5891102 - 07/23/06 03:36 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: I think the bastards should make peace with their neighbors. They stole the land they're on from the people of Palestine and kicked them off farms and homes they had owned for generations. The fact of the matter is, any displaced people have a right of resistance under international law and that's what they're doing. Another fact is Israel kills ten times as many innocent civilians in the occupied territories and now Lebanon as the resistance kills in Israel. All of it could end if Israel will pull back to the pre 1967 borders and let the Palestinian people have a state, but no, Israel is copying what they learned from Hitler and wants to kill off their enemies instead of living together in peace. As long as they remain arrogant and genocidal, they will live in a state of war, and American citizens will be forced to pay for it all with our taxes in order to satisfy the voting block of Christians who think Israel is 'God's chosen people'. The whole thing makes me sick.
They won Gaza and West Bank during the six day war. Then gave Gaza back and then Hamas started to fire rockets from Gaza. Heh, they totaly shouldn't have given Gaza back.
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http://www.myspace.com/4th25 "And I don't care if he was handcuffed Then shot in his head All I know is dead bodies Can't fuck with me again"
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KingOftheThing
the cool fool


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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
#5892652 - 07/23/06 10:23 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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jews, lol
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Phred
Fred's son


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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: MAIA]
#5892685 - 07/23/06 10:40 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thoughts from a Lebanese blogger --
Hezbollahs Filthy Methods Posted by N10452
For the past 11 days, we have seen Israel bomb all sorts of targets and I am sure most of us were wondering why would Israel bomb a certain factory or a construction yard or a truck..
If we can for a moment turn off all the local and international channels who have nothing to do but show little dead children and dismembered bodies that touch the viewer to a certain degree that it would blind them, and think about the reasons behind those hits.
From a military point of view, you have a fully equipped army, ranked in the top 5 armies in the world fighting against a guerrilla militia with absolutely no info on its fighters, weapons and locations.
Even though the Israeli army is way superior in terms of weapons, technology and size than Hezbollah, its war must be a very cautious and tactical one since its fighting a guerilla militia.
We have seen Israel for example hitting a tissue factory in a small village in the south. The reason for that would be Hezbollah move around with a missile in a truck, park near a factory and fire a rocket then flee. The origin of the rocket being the factory, Israelis respond by hitting it.
A witness to a similar action went on TV and urged Hezbollah fighters to stop coming into his village to shoot rockets and then run away since the village is being destroyed.
Same for the truck that was carrying civilians and that became very suspicious when it was not allowed to enter the UN offices.
Fighting a guerrilla is very hard and knowing that they could shoot from anywhere, we should expect attacks on unusual places.
Innocent people are dying this is true, but I believe the way Hezbollah is operating and its filthy methods in infiltrating villages and using them as launch positions is causing all those casualties.
Of course Israelis have hit bridges recklessly during the day killing innocent civilians trying to cross the bridge, but its war and you always have victims.
On the other hand, the party thats hitting civilians randomly and threatening innocent lives is Hezbollah who is launching rockets with no sense of direction whatsoever. I have seen rockets land on balconies, small cafes, walls… anything but military targets.
Finally, I heard that Hezbollah has accepted that the government negotiate on the prisoners fate today, therefore I hope that they realized they haven’t achieved anything except self destruction politically and militarily and most of all the destruction of Lebanon and putting it in economical ruin for the next 5 years.
http://www.ouwet.com/n10452/personal-opinions/hizbullah-s-filthy-methods/
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Phred
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Vvellum
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: Phred]
#5892845 - 07/23/06 11:43 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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so? a "lebanese blogger" and his or her opinions are still just opinions.
you seem to suggest that Israel's murder of hundreds of civilians is justified and is the only way to escape from this dire situation. one question: how is bombing these people going to create peace with Israel and the greater region of the middle east? ("you gotta break an egg to cook an omlette" - nevermind the egg is an innocent human being - remember stating that pinksharkmark in debate against socialism? strange how your position so readily changes.) even if hezbollah is neutralized, the cycle will continue because hatred of Israel and her bloody actions will only be inflamed and usually-marginalized extremist ideology will be validated and popularized. Hezbollah may cease to exist, but other groups will only rise to power.
The only way there will be peace in the middle east is if the islamic extremists are not validated by Israel's murdereous actions and they remain marginal (and thus ineffective) and if economic prosperity flourishes in the region. Israel must stay strong and patient and of morals while business must be allowed to grow. If young men (and women) are well-off, educated, have a future to look forward to, and have responsibility to attend to (and thus are not desparate and nihilistic) as well as not have a reason to hate Israel, they will not give thought to join ranks of terrorists. Game over.
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GazzBut
Refraction

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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: zappaisgod]
#5893469 - 07/24/06 03:14 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
What is it that you think Israel should have done? I am at a loss to come up with anything other than this.
Off the top of my head, special forces could be employed to take out Hezbollah leaders etc and try to rescue hostages as opposed to the heavy handed destruction of the infrastructure of the country which is causing such a heavy toll of civillian casualties. Actions which in the long run will only serve to increase hatred towards Israel in the Lebanon specifically and the Arab states in general.
-------------------- Always Smi2le
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GazzBut
Refraction

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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: Phred]
#5893474 - 07/24/06 03:16 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
We have seen Israel for example hitting a tissue factory in a small village in the south. The reason for that would be Hezbollah move around with a missile in a truck, park near a factory and fire a rocket then flee. The origin of the rocket being the factory, Israelis respond by hitting it.
A witness to a similar action went on TV and urged Hezbollah fighters to stop coming into his village to shoot rockets and then run away since the village is being destroyed.
Perhaps the Israeili Intelligence should read this blog to realise how much unneccessary carnage they are actually causing.
-------------------- Always Smi2le
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis


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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: GazzBut]
#5893948 - 07/24/06 10:18 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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No matter how justified a country is in attacking another, you will always have pundits throwing in the "innocent people" equation.
Being actually involved in situations where I have seen firsthand, the deaths of innocents, brings me pause, when this equation is thrown in. However, I do come to the same opinion in the end.
War has always encompassed the death of innocents. It is one trait that will never subside. Just like war itself, it is inevitable. I do applaud people who do take the stance of anti-war, based on their respective moral or political grounds, however, in the real world, this stance is a fantasy. I wish no death on any Innocent, just like I do not wish for war. However, unfortunately, this will not happen:
Out of ALL recorded history, there has not been a major war in only 360 years.
Humans kill other humans. Nations fight nations. In the fog of war, I believe, it up to each individual to pick a side.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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GazzBut
Refraction

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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: SirTripAlot]
#5894358 - 07/24/06 01:33 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
war itself, it is inevitable.
I think you lack vision.
-------------------- Always Smi2le
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.


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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: SirTripAlot]
#5894401 - 07/24/06 01:48 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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SirTripAlot said: Out of ALL recorded history, there has not been a major war in only 360 years.
Sadly, The 360 years of no major wars.... was just preparation for the next major war.
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: GazzBut]
#5894810 - 07/24/06 04:17 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
GazzBut said:
Quote:
What is it that you think Israel should have done? I am at a loss to come up with anything other than this.
Off the top of my head, special forces could be employed to take out Hezbollah leaders etc and try to rescue hostages as opposed to the heavy handed destruction of the infrastructure of the country which is causing such a heavy toll of civillian casualties. Actions which in the long run will only serve to increase hatred towards Israel in the Lebanon specifically and the Arab states in general.
In which case there would be world wide condemnation of their assassination tactics and little to no effect on the thousands and thousands of regular Hezbolloids. They have no idea at all where the hostages are. And increasing hatred toward Israel among Arabs predisposed to that is impossible. Further, there is a very large segment of the Muslim world that is quite disgusted with Hezbollah for this. I ask again, why isn't the duly elected government of Lebanon assisting in the hunt for Hezbollah and the hostages? It would seem that it would be in their interest to assert authority in their own country over the lawless scum who wish to co-opt them for their own perverted agenda.
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis


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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: GazzBut]
#5895079 - 07/24/06 05:45 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
GazzBut said:
Quote:
war itself, it is inevitable.
I think you lack vision.
I think you lack reality of recorded history and current events.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: SirTripAlot]
#5895097 - 07/24/06 05:52 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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The whole "people die in war" mentality is pretty much used by all sides of the fence in any conflict. Mention to a Hezbollah supporter that one of their rockets killed an old lady they'll tell you the same thing as the IDF if you let them know that one of their bunker busters took out an entire family.
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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quiver
freedrug


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Posts: 8,047
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: Basilides]
#5896845 - 07/25/06 01:43 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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the difference being tho is when our side hits a civilian shield we atleast say we regret it publicly
your kind cheer and jeer at the site of a dead corpse,infact i'm sure their applause at an innocents death/mutilation borders on sexual gratification
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: quiver]
#5896911 - 07/25/06 02:09 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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--------------------
    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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downforpot
Stranger

Registered: 06/25/01
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: quiver]
#5896917 - 07/25/06 02:12 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
quiver said: the difference being tho is when our side hits a civilian shield we atleast say we regret it publicly
your kind cheer and jeer at the site of a dead corpse,infact i'm sure their applause at an innocents death/mutilation borders on sexual gratification
Yea.. What is the deal with those gatherings where Muslims cheer and shit? I mean damn... That shit makes for a juicy target cause you know everyone that's there is a target for laser guided bombs.
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http://www.myspace.com/4th25 "And I don't care if he was handcuffed Then shot in his head All I know is dead bodies Can't fuck with me again"
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quiver
freedrug


Registered: 10/25/05
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: Basilides]
#5896924 - 07/25/06 02:14 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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i'm sure you'll have more to say when the other two goats,i mean sheep get here,thats when the nails,rouge and lippie really comes out so until then...
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quiver
freedrug


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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: downforpot]
#5896934 - 07/25/06 02:18 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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downforpot said:
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quiver said: the difference being tho is when our side hits a civilian shield we atleast say we regret it publicly
your kind cheer and jeer at the site of a dead corpse,infact i'm sure their applause at an innocents death/mutilation borders on sexual gratification
Yea.. What is the deal with those gatherings where Muslims cheer and shit? I mean damn... That shit makes for a juicy target cause you know everyone that's there is a target for laser guided bombs.
it might have something to do with only being allowed to wear dull,sullen earthy colours period,bright coulours offend them because we like them
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: quiver]
#5896940 - 07/25/06 02:21 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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quiver said: i'm sure you'll have more to say when the other two goats,i mean sheep get here,thats when the nails,rouge and lippie really comes out so until then...
In English please?
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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quiver
freedrug


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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: Basilides]
#5897018 - 07/25/06 02:54 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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i'd rather say it in arabic....
Kos okht ile nafadak Ya manache'h air il'e yoshmotak:D translation:go in peace my brother:D
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GazzBut
Refraction

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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: zappaisgod]
#5897217 - 07/25/06 06:04 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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In which case there would be world wide condemnation of their assassination tactics
I dont agreee. I think the world would think it was perfectly acceptable to limit casualties.
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They have no idea at all where the hostages are.
How do you know? Hotline to Mossad is it?
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And increasing hatred toward Israel among Arabs predisposed to that is impossible.
Of course but there are plenty of Arabs who are not predisposed.
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I ask again, why isn't the duly elected government of Lebanon assisting in the hunt for Hezbollah and the hostages?
The Lebanese government has little or no power over Hezbollah. Even though many Lebanese are against Hezbollah's current actions they respect them for ending Israel's occupation in 2000 and also for their provision of social services. It is probabaly not going to make the situation better from a Lebanese point of view by starting a civil war. The Israelis are obviously fully aware of that.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: GazzBut]
#5898738 - 07/25/06 04:12 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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GazzBut said:
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In which case there would be world wide condemnation of their assassination tactics
I dont agreee. I think the world would think it was perfectly acceptable to limit casualties.
Well, seeing as how the world has condemned them for such acts in the past, I think I'm on pretty firm ground. In fact, I'm on really firm ground;
"United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan denounced Yassin’s killing as a “targeted assassination.” He continued, “Such actions are not only contrary to international law, but they do not do anything to help the search for a peaceful solution.” http://www.pww.org/article/articleview/4987/1/208
One quick and easy search for "Israel condemned for assassination" gave 833,000 hits on Google.
Then we also seem to have this;
"BEIRUT, Lebanon - A senior Hezbollah official said Tuesday the guerrillas did not expect Israel to react so strongly to its capture of two Israeli soldiers.... "The truth is — let me say this clearly — we didn't even expect (this) response ... that (Israel) would exploit this operation for this big war against us," said Komati.
He said Hezbollah had expected "the usual, limited response" from Israel.
In the past, he said, Israeli responses to Hezbollah actions included sending commandos into Lebanon, seizing Hezbollah officials and briefly targeting specific Hezbollah strongholds in southern Lebanon." http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060725/ap_on_re_mi_ea/mideast_fighting_hezbollah
So, it's pretty clear from the mouth of a Hezbolloid that those tactics were useless as a preventative measure. What's left? Systematic and relentless destruction of the murdering scum is what.Quote:
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They have no idea at all where the hostages are.
How do you know? Hotline to Mossad is it?
Do you? Don't you think they would have made a rescue mission if they knew? Do you think that the Mossad is omniscient? Oh wait, I know, it's all an Israeli plot to start WW345. They don't want them back at all, they're pawns in the Israeli plot to kill all Arabs. Puhleeze.Quote:
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And increasing hatred toward Israel among Arabs predisposed to that is impossible.
Of course but there are plenty of Arabs who are not predisposed.
There is no shortage of Arab disgust with Hezbollah. And they seem to not be making too much of a fuss over the Israeli response. Except for the usual suspects and complicit assholes. Meanwhile, Hamas seems to have taken note of the situation to the North and suddenly lost a bit of stomach for the struggle; "All groups in Gaza, including Hamas, would now accept a cease-fire deal with Israel which would include releasing Gilad Shalit, according to the Palestinian Agriculture Minister, who also heads the coordinating committee of Palestinian organizations there.
Ibrahim Al-Naja said the factions were ready to stop the Qassam rocket fire if Israel's ceased all military moves against the Palestinian factions in Gaza. They are also ready to release Shalit in exchange for guaranteeing the future release of Palestinian prisoners.
Hamas leaders did not confirm this report on Monday, but if it is true, then this is the first time that Hamas has indicated its acceptance of the Egyptian proposal to solve the crisis.
Egypt's proposal did not include an Israeli commitment to the immediate release of Palestinian prisoners, only guarantees for their future release." http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/742283.html
We'll see.Quote:
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I ask again, why isn't the duly elected government of Lebanon assisting in the hunt for Hezbollah and the hostages?
The Lebanese government has little or no power over Hezbollah. Even though many Lebanese are against Hezbollah's current actions they respect them for ending Israel's occupation in 2000 and also for their provision of social services. It is probabaly not going to make the situation better from a Lebanese point of view by starting a civil war. The Israelis are obviously fully aware of that.
You either govern or you don't. Lebanon is a tiny country and doesn't have mountain hideouts so they have no excuse. And I'll tell you what. Would they be worse off if they had eradicated these scum in the first place, like the UN demanded? I doubt it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_Security_Council_Resolution_1559
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Basilides
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: zappaisgod]
#5899177 - 07/25/06 06:56 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Resolution 1559 in no way gives the green light for anyone to "eradicate" Hezbollah. It merely calls for Hezbollah to be disarmed, and the prefered intention of the Resolution was likely a diplomatic route to get Hezbollah to lay down their arms on par with the domestic pressure that eventually grew into the Cedar Springs Revolution in regard to Syrian presence in Lebanon. The Lebanese government doesn't even have the man power to violently disarm Hezbollah if it earnestly wanted to. Hezbollah itself has refused to disarm citing Israeli occupation of Sheeba Farms. Eradicating Hezbollah at this point is probably impossible. They have spent the last 6 years burrying rockets, digging strongholds and making cladestine hideouts with every consideration that Israel might one day go all-out on them (even if they didn't expect it when they kidnapped the two soldiers).
As for the Arab response - most Arabs are Sunnis, and Hezbollah is predominately a Shi'ite group. The current Israeli offensive will only worsen Arab and Muslim attitudes towards Israel in the long run. The Lebanese people - whose response is by and large more significant than other Arabs, are for the most part outraged at Israel over this. Much like any country after it is devastated by alien violence, the Lebanese people are quite united at the moment; not only against Israel, but also the United States for refusing to call for a cease-fire.
While Israel is dropping bombs on well known U.N. outposts, family minivans and anything that looks at a sky drone cockeyed, the U.S. state department is barking moonbats about a status-quo that wasn't even news on July 11. Apparently a routine incursion against Israeli troops by Hezbollah (as opposed to a Hamas suicide bombing that kills several civilians) conflated that somehow.
What is missing here is focus on Sheebaa Farms, which was seized by Israel from Syria in 1967. Nearly all agricultural land in this region was owned and used by Lebanese farmers from the village Sheebaa just north of the region, and hence its relation to Lebanon and ultimately Hezbollah, which does not acknowledge any post-67 land grabs by Israel. Sheebaa Farms has also long ago ceased to be a Syrian issue. In 1964 both Syria and Lebanon came to an agreement that the region was a part of Lebanon. Delineation of the region ultimately never took place when the 6-Day war eventually ensued. Internationally, the U.N. is neither content with the current situation of Sheebaa Farms, citing the borders drawn out by the 1973 Yom Kippur War. If there is ever going to be stability in the region, the dispute over Sheebaa Farms will have to be resolved peacefully one way or another.
If Israel wishes to embark on this icarian plummet into the sun, there will without a doubt be future problems and the very real probability that the current offensive will only beat down Hezbollah for a short period of time, not eradication which is nearly impossible. Israel has attempted to eradicate violent groups in the past (the Jenin incursion of 2002 for example) with no success - instead Hamas (who were mostly responsible for the string of suicide bombings in spring 2002) went on to become even more powerful as their political wing expanded.
It's in everyone's best interest (including Lebanon, obviously) that Hezbollah does disarm, however change in the Mideast in regard to militant groups and Arab governments has historically stemmed from diplomacy, not force. Finally, completely eradicating Hezbollah doesn't even appear to be the intention of Israel at the moment, as there is no intention on Israel's part re-occupy any region of Lebanon, which is what would be needed if Israel seriously wanted to take down Hezbollah as a whole by force. As it is, they are attempting to simply push Hezbollah offensive positions back far enough that their rockets are unable to penetrate the Northern Israeli border.
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zappaisgod
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: Basilides]
#5902246 - 07/26/06 03:47 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Basilides said: Resolution 1559 in no way gives the green light for anyone to "eradicate" Hezbollah. It merely calls for Hezbollah to be disarmed, and the prefered intention of the Resolution was likely a diplomatic route to get Hezbollah to lay down their arms on par with the domestic pressure that eventually grew into the Cedar Springs Revolution in regard to Syrian presence in Lebanon. The Lebanese government doesn't even have the man power to violently disarm Hezbollah if it earnestly wanted to. Hezbollah itself has refused to disarm citing Israeli occupation of Sheeba Farms. Eradicating Hezbollah at this point is probably impossible. They have spent the last 6 years burrying rockets, digging strongholds and making cladestine hideouts with every consideration that Israel might one day go all-out on them (even if they didn't expect it when they kidnapped the two soldiers).
Do or do not, there is no try. The Lebanese government is admittedly unable to disarm Hezbollah, by themselves because of their ineffectual nature. Nonetheless, they should be assisting Israel now that push has come to shove, as should everybody else. And I disagree with you about their motivation for hiding munitions for years. It was to attack, not defend. Hezbollah can cite all the whiny crap they want, they are an outlaw organization whose disarmament was demanded by even the feckless fuckheads at the UN. They have no business making policy for the Lebanese gov't of which they are only a minor part.Quote:
As for the Arab response - most Arabs are Sunnis, and Hezbollah is predominately a Shi'ite group. The current Israeli offensive will only worsen Arab and Muslim attitudes towards Israel in the long run.
This is not possible. Nor should Israel give a fuck. The Sunni Arabs seem to not exactly be flocking to the side of the Hezbolloids anyway.Quote:
The Lebanese people - whose response is by and large more significant than other Arabs, are for the most part outraged at Israel over this.
If they can't even govern their own country what makes you think their response is of any consequence whatsoever? They allowed these swine free rein over their southern border and didn't even ask for help. They're hostages too, by their own cowardly doing.Quote:
Much like any country after it is devastated by alien violence, the Lebanese people are quite united at the moment; not only against Israel, but also the United States for refusing to call for a cease-fire.
There will be a cease fire (and I know you only mean for Israel) when the fuckers are dead or surrender. There was a cease fire. How did that work out? Who violated it? Alien violence? Yeah Germany was "devastated by alien violence." Well deserved, I might add.Quote:
While Israel is dropping bombs on well known U.N. outposts,
Too bad. Shit happens. And Kofi Annan is an idiot and a shill if he thinks it was intentional. Oh wait, we've known that for some time. Quote:
family minivans and anything that looks at a sky drone cockeyed,
When the enemy uses minivans and ambulances for troop carriers and fires rockets from houses and mosques, it is the enemy that makes those things targets.Quote:
the U.S. state department is barking moonbats about a status-quo that wasn't even news on July 11. Apparently a routine incursion against Israeli troops by Hezbollah (as opposed to a Hamas suicide bombing that kills several civilians) conflated that somehow.
And here is the problem with you and your ilk. You think it is OK for there to be routine incursions. How about if I routinely come over to your house and punch you in the mouth? Is that OK? And this was certainly nonroutine. I hadn't heard about something like this for quite some time until the Hamassholes did it just a little while before. Coordinated? I don't know. I think Hamas isn't real happy either, right now. And both of those garbage heads have been firing rockets. So, tell me, why should Israel stop pursuing these fuckers and reoccupy all the territory they gave back? It doesn't seem to have done them any good to give it back. Except with Egypt.Quote:
What is missing here is focus on Sheebaa Farms, which was seized by Israel from Syria in 1967.
Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. It was lost in a war. Tough shit, losers. And what does this have to do with Hezbollah making attacks from Lebanon? Maybe Syria needs to lose again. Only out in the open.
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Nearly all agricultural land in this region was owned and used by Lebanese farmers from the village Sheebaa just north of the region, and hence its relation to Lebanon and ultimately Hezbollah, which does not acknowledge any post-67 land grabs by Israel.
Hazbollah is not in a position to recognize anything, or not recognize anything. They can go fuck themselves entirely. Land grabs? You're a funny guy.Quote:
Sheebaa Farms has also long ago ceased to be a Syrian issue.
Well then, that should be the end of the matter, shouldn't it? Especially since Hez is a Syrian/Iranian puppetQuote:
In 1964 both Syria and Lebanon came to an agreement that the region was a part of Lebanon. Delineation of the region ultimately never took place when the 6-Day war eventually ensued. Internationally, the U.N. is neither content with the current situation of Sheebaa Farms, citing the borders drawn out by the 1973 Yom Kippur War. If there is ever going to be stability in the region, the dispute over Sheebaa Farms will have to be resolved peacefully one way or another.
Well, since neither GOVERNMENT of Syria or Lebanon or Israel was making a fucking big deal out of it, what makes you think that Hezbollah, a non-state band of criminals should have anything to say? Were they displaced farmers. You really are an apologist for genocidal maniacs if you buy this shitQuote:
If Israel wishes to embark on this icarian plummet into the sun, there will without a doubt be future problems and the very real probability that the current offensive will only beat down Hezbollah for a short period of time, not eradication which is nearly impossible. Israel has attempted to eradicate violent groups in the past (the Jenin incursion of 2002 for example) with no success - instead Hamas (who were mostly responsible for the string of suicide bombings in spring 2002) went on to become even more powerful as their political wing expanded.
Hamas is in the toilet and on the verge of surrender.Quote:
It's in everyone's best interest (including Lebanon, obviously) that Hezbollah does disarm, however change in the Mideast in regard to militant groups and Arab governments has historically stemmed from diplomacy, not force.
Complete and utter bullshit. All they have ever responded to is force.
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Finally, completely eradicating Hezbollah doesn't even appear to be the intention of Israel at the moment, as there is no intention on Israel's part re-occupy any region of Lebanon, which is what would be needed if Israel seriously wanted to take down Hezbollah as a whole by force. As it is, they are attempting to simply push Hezbollah offensive positions back far enough that their rockets are unable to penetrate the Northern Israeli border.
They hope to push Hezbollah far enough back that they can't make physical incursions to kidnap and murder Israelis and to make it in the interests of the Lebanese people, and any other belligerent neighbor, to stop trying to kill all Jews. The rockets have a bit too much range. But if they constantly blow up everything near where the rockets are sent from maybe the people who live there will help them stop the attacks.
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Basilides
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: zappaisgod]
#5902950 - 07/26/06 08:31 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Do or do not, there is no try. The Lebanese government is admittedly unable to disarm Hezbollah, by themselves because of their ineffectual nature. Nonetheless, they should be assisting Israel now that push has come to shove, as should everybody else. And I disagree with you about their motivation for hiding munitions for years. It was to attack, not defend. Hezbollah can cite all the whiny crap they want, they are an outlaw organization whose disarmament was demanded by even the feckless fuckheads at the UN. They have no business making policy for the Lebanese gov't of which they are only a minor part.
The last thing the Lebanese government wants on its hands is anothering civil war, and that is exactly what would ensue if the Lebanese "assisted" Israel. It might even escalate considering how many Lebanese Shi'ites support Hezbollah for their charity work. No, for the sake of Lebanon, the Lebanese government should do absolutely nothing until a peacekeeping force arrives. That includes neither fighting Hezbollah or Israel.
This is not possible. Nor should Israel give a fuck. The Sunni Arabs seem to not exactly be flocking to the side of the Hezbolloids anyway.
La derr, it's a Shi'ite group. And popular blacklashes are possible in any conflict and everyone should be concerned.
If they can't even govern their own country what makes you think their response is of any consequence whatsoever? They allowed these swine free rein over their southern border and didn't even ask for help. They're hostages too, by their own cowardly doing.
There's a difference between the Lebanese people and the Lebanese government. The Lebanese people aren't obligated to do anything in regard to this conflict any more than Israeli citizens.
There will be a cease fire (and I know you only mean for Israel) when the fuckers are dead or surrender. There was a cease fire. How did that work out? Who violated it? Alien violence? Yeah Germany was "devastated by alien violence." Well deserved, I might add.
Do you think this is the first time that Israel has ever attempted to eliminate Hezbollah, or any militant group for that matter? There has never been an official cease-fire between Hezbollah and Israel, either. They have been fighting on and off since 2000. Nor are they on speaking terms.
Too bad. Shit happens. And Kofi Annan is an idiot and a shill if he thinks it was intentional. Oh wait, we've known that for some time.
Either it was intentional or the IDF is utterly incompetent, the U.N. outpost at hand has been there for years. It is not concealed. It is clearly marked, and even stationed on a hill with a locality fence. Either way, the Israeli government is currently investigating the attack to determine whether any IDF subordination was at play.
When the enemy uses minivans and ambulances for troop carriers and fires rockets from houses and mosques, it is the enemy that makes those things targets.
Got any evidence of this? I've never heard of Hezbollah using ambulances or mosques for that matter. The IDF itself has said that Hezbollah mostly fires rockets from pick up trucks in order to move out quickly.
And here is the problem with you and your ilk. You think it is OK for there to be routine incursions. How about if I routinely come over to your house and punch you in the mouth? Is that OK? And this was certainly nonroutine. I hadn't heard about something like this for quite some time until the Hamassholes did it just a little while before. Coordinated? I don't know. I think Hamas isn't real happy either, right now. And both of those garbage heads have been firing rockets. So, tell me, why should Israel stop pursuing these fuckers and reoccupy all the territory they gave back? It doesn't seem to have done them any good to give it back. Except with Egypt.
Israel's 2000 pull out wasn't a gesture. They were slogged for years, and at the time tensions between Palestinians and Israel were mounting at record intensity. Hezbollah didn't entirely start the current explosion of violence either. The soldier snatchings by Hezbollah early this month were in response to an Israeli-backed assassin cell which was unearthed by the Lebanese in June. Hezbollah has a long history of tit for tat, preferring to avoid all out confrontations. They simply do not like Israelis being in Lebanon under any circumstance. They have unmanned drones that have no use whatsoever other than psychological warfare for whenever the Israeli air force violates Lebanese air space.
Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. It was lost in a war. Tough shit, losers. And what does this have to do with Hezbollah making attacks from Lebanon? Maybe Syria needs to lose again. Only out in the open.
As I've said, the Sheebaa Farms dispute HAS to be resolved somehow. Undelineated territory (that is occupied at that) is a recipe for regional disaster. I'm surprised you can't see that. The Israeli presence in Sheebaa Farms doesn't even act as a buffer, so what do they have to gain by remaining there?
Well then, that should be the end of the matter, shouldn't it? Especially since Hez is a Syrian/Iranian puppet
Syria simply does not want Sheebaa Farms. They neither represent the regional sentiment of Sheeba/Sheeba Farms, and their ties with Hezbollah are more political in respect to their interests in Lebanon. Hezbollah, after all, opposed the Ceder Revolution.
Well, since neither GOVERNMENT of Syria or Lebanon or Israel was making a fucking big deal out of it, what makes you think that Hezbollah, a non-state band of criminals should have anything to say? Were they displaced farmers. You really are an apologist for genocidal maniacs if you buy this shit
See second next above. If there is ever going to be long term peace, the entire region has to be completely lineated one way or another.
Complete and utter bullshit. All they have ever responded to is force.
Lets see...peace with Egypt: diplomacy. Peace with Jordan: diplomacy.
They hope to push Hezbollah far enough back that they can't make physical incursions to kidnap and murder Israelis and to make it in the interests of the Lebanese people, and any other belligerent neighbor, to stop trying to kill all Jews. The rockets have a bit too much range. But if they constantly blow up everything near where the rockets are sent from maybe the people who live there will help them stop the attacks.
Very few have any problems with Israel pushing Hezbollah back away from the Israeli border for the protection of Israelis. What has outraged so many is not a prospective ground entry into southern Lebanon, but the quite-liberal air raiding of Lebanon and Beirut that has killed several hundred innocent people.
Hamas is dead in the toilet
Good. I'm actually quite pleased with the Palestinians for choosing not to exploit the current situation in Lebanon to launch attacks on Israel. It's also a good sign that that the Palestinian police deliberately disobeyed Hamas' orders to attack Israeli troops in Gaza.
See, the biggest obstacle to peace in the region is popular sentiment, both Israeli and Arab. Neither populations are interested in peace. Some 86% of Israelis are in favor of disproportionate air raids, and the Palestinians, well, they voted Hamas into power.
By and large, the average Israeli and the average Palestinian is a benighted, hate filled moron.
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: Basilides]
#5904850 - 07/27/06 10:20 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Basilides said: Do or do not, there is no try. The Lebanese government is admittedly unable to disarm Hezbollah, by themselves because of their ineffectual nature. Nonetheless, they should be assisting Israel now that push has come to shove, as should everybody else. And I disagree with you about their motivation for hiding munitions for years. It was to attack, not defend. Hezbollah can cite all the whiny crap they want, they are an outlaw organization whose disarmament was demanded by even the feckless fuckheads at the UN. They have no business making policy for the Lebanese gov't of which they are only a minor part.
The last thing the Lebanese government wants on its hands is anothering civil war, and that is exactly what would ensue if the Lebanese "assisted" Israel. It might even escalate considering how many Lebanese Shi'ites support Hezbollah for their charity work. No, for the sake of Lebanon, the Lebanese government should do absolutely nothing until a peacekeeping force arrives. That includes neither fighting Hezbollah or Israel.
The Lebanese government does not have the option to stand aside. They failed to live up to their agreement to disarm Hez and now they are going to be suffer consequences because Israel will not and cannot tolerate the acts of some of the Lebanese citizens who refuse to cease their belligerent behaviour. They have to side with Israel or they are not a government, they are a joke. As to the peacekeeping force, there is supposed to be one there already. You know, the UNIFIL that you mention further on down that was there to oversee the disarmament of Hezbollah. Apparently no country is willing to take on the task anyway. So, you might as well wait for Godot, the second coming of Jesus and set a place for Elijah. They aint coming. There is no cavalry over the hill.Quote:
This is not possible. Nor should Israel give a fuck. The Sunni Arabs seem to not exactly be flocking to the side of the Hezbolloids anyway.
La derr, it's a Shi'ite group. And popular blacklashes are possible in any conflict and everyone should be concerned.
No no no. This latest in from Al Q; "CAIRO, Egypt (AP) - Al-Qaida's No. 2 leader issued a worldwide call in a new videotape released Thursday for Muslims to rise up in a holy war against Israel and join the fighting in Lebanon and Gaza until Islam reigns from "Spain to Iraq." http://apnews.myway.com/article/20060727/D8J4AUMO0.html It has nothing to do with Shia vs Sunni. It is criminals versus the, allegedly, legitimate governments. And if they can't get a hold of their people they are complicit. As is the UN for standing idly by when they were supposed to be helping.Quote:
If they can't even govern their own country what makes you think their response is of any consequence whatsoever? They allowed these swine free rein over their southern border and didn't even ask for help. They're hostages too, by their own cowardly doing.
There's a difference between the Lebanese people and the Lebanese government. The Lebanese people aren't obligated to do anything in regard to this conflict any more than Israeli citizens.
I'm sorry that they are getting fucked. Most of them are probably decent. But, if you allow a murderer safe haven in your house, stand by while he amasses weapons, do nothing when he attacks and then let him back in your house with the police hot on his tail, all after you promised to do your best to stop him, you are going to have a problem. A big one. Israeli citizens obligations? Their obligations are to destroy the murdering thugs who threaten the rule of law all over the world by taking care of their small part of it. They seem to be stepping up to the plate. Perhaps because they realize, unlike their Muslim neighbors, that it is LAW which keeps us all safe, and cowardice only begets disaster. If they would ever show a willingness to expel the vipers from their midst they would find many, many people willing to help them. Help them, not do it for them. But they never do. Cowards.Quote:
There will be a cease fire (and I know you only mean for Israel) when the fuckers are dead or surrender. There was a cease fire. How did that work out? Who violated it? Alien violence? Yeah Germany was "devastated by alien violence." Well deserved, I might add.
Do you think this is the first time that Israel has ever attempted to eliminate Hezbollah, or any militant group for that matter? There has never been an official cease-fire between Hezbollah and Israel, either. They have been fighting on and off since 2000. Nor are they on speaking terms.
I am not aware of any previous activity, except for an assassination attempt on Nasrullah gone awry, wherein Israel attempted to eliminate Hezbollah. And an assassiination isn't going to do it. Although it would have been a good start. Speaking terms? No, they are on shooting terms. May the best man win. Now get out of the way and let them at him.Quote:
Too bad. Shit happens. And Kofi Annan is an idiot and a shill if he thinks it was intentional. Oh wait, we've known that for some time.
Either it was intentional or the IDF is utterly incompetent, the U.N. outpost at hand has been there for years. It is not concealed. It is clearly marked, and even stationed on a hill with a locality fence. Either way, the Israeli government is currently investigating the attack to determine whether any IDF subordination was at play.
See this; "Read the UNIFIL press releases for yourself to learn that Hezbollah has not just shot at and seriously wounded UNIFIL observers - without any protest from Kofi Annan or The Age. You’ll also learn that UNIFIL has repeatedly reported Israeli shelling and bombing near UNIFIL outposts because Hezbollah fighters were shooting from right beside them ." http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andre...ost_was_bombed/
This was not a UN post far removed from the fighting. This was a bunch of fucking idiots used as human shields for Hez attacks. Key words here are "used" and "idiots". Kofi the fucking cunt should be prosecuted for allowing them to be used in that way. Or did he just want martyrs so he could condemn Israel. Given the past behaviour of the two groups, I find this far more likely than Israel deliberately bombing a clearly marked and removed U(seless)N(itwit) outpost.Quote:
When the enemy uses minivans and ambulances for troop carriers and fires rockets from houses and mosques, it is the enemy that makes those things targets.
Got any evidence of this? I've never heard of Hezbollah using ambulances or mosques for that matter. The IDF itself has said that Hezbollah mostly fires rockets from pick up trucks in order to move out quickly.
Got a link for that? I got a link or two, one from a useless nitwit;
"BEIRUT, Lebanon - The U.N. humanitarian chief accused Hezbollah on Monday of "cowardly blending" in among Lebanese civilians and causing the deaths of hundreds during two weeks of cross-border violence with Israel..... "Consistently, from the Hezbollah heartland, my message was that Hezbollah must stop this cowardly blending ... among women and children," he said. "I heard they were proud because they lost very few fighters and that it was the civilians bearing the brunt of this. I don't think anyone should be proud of having many more children and women dead than armed men." http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060724/ap_on_re_mi_ea/mideast_fighting_aid
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And here is the problem with you and your ilk. You think it is OK for there to be routine incursions. How about if I routinely come over to your house and punch you in the mouth? Is that OK? And this was certainly nonroutine. I hadn't heard about something like this for quite some time until the Hamassholes did it just a little while before. Coordinated? I don't know. I think Hamas isn't real happy either, right now. And both of those garbage heads have been firing rockets. So, tell me, why should Israel stop pursuing these fuckers and reoccupy all the territory they gave back? It doesn't seem to have done them any good to give it back. Except with Egypt.
Israel's 2000 pull out wasn't a gesture. They were slogged for years, and at the time tensions between Palestinians and Israel were mounting at record intensity. Hezbollah didn't entirely start the current explosion of violence either. The soldier snatchings by Hezbollah early this month were in response to an Israeli-backed assassin cell which was unearthed by the Lebanese in June. Hezbollah has a long history of tit for tat, preferring to avoid all out confrontations. They simply do not like Israelis being in Lebanon under any circumstance. They have unmanned drones that have no use whatsoever other than psychological warfare for whenever the Israeli air force violates Lebanese air space.
No, Israel's pull out was not a gesture at all. A gesture is a fake thing. They actually did pull out. Now, I want the link to the assassin cell. As to the drones and IAF, the sentence is incomprehensible and I have no idea what you mean by psych warfare here.Quote:
Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. It was lost in a war. Tough shit, losers. And what does this have to do with Hezbollah making attacks from Lebanon? Maybe Syria needs to lose again. Only out in the open.
As I've said, the Sheebaa Farms dispute HAS to be resolved somehow. Undelineated territory (that is occupied at that) is a recipe for regional disaster. I'm surprised you can't see that. The Israeli presence in Sheebaa Farms doesn't even act as a buffer, so what do they have to gain by remaining there?
Once again, the governments seem to be dealing with it however they deal with it. Hezbollah has no say. They are just criminals, NOT GOVERNMENTS. You can't always get what you want. Tough shit, they need to grow up and quit whining when they don't get all the toys they want. I can't believe you can't see that. It's just an excuse to kill Jews anyway.Quote:
Well then, that should be the end of the matter, shouldn't it? Especially since Hez is a Syrian/Iranian puppet
Syria simply does not want Sheebaa Farms. They neither represent the regional sentiment of Sheeba/Sheeba Farms, and their ties with Hezbollah are more political in respect to their interests in Lebanon. Hezbollah, after all, opposed the Ceder Revolution.
Well, since neither GOVERNMENT of Syria or Lebanon or Israel was making a fucking big deal out of it, what makes you think that Hezbollah, a non-state band of criminals should have anything to say? Were they displaced farmers. You really are an apologist for genocidal maniacs if you buy this shit
See second next above. If there is ever going to be long term peace, the entire region has to be completely lineated one way or another.
Yes, but not by murdering criminals who have not the least notion of compromise, only death. They are merely death merchants. How come no one ever hears of this Hezbollah rallying cry, "Sheeba Farms or Death"? Because it isn't one. What they want is all of Israel with no Jews. If you think they would stop their bullshit if they were given the Sheeba Farms, I gotta bridge to sell you.Quote:
Complete and utter bullshit. All they have ever responded to is force.
Lets see...peace with Egypt: diplomacy. Peace with Jordan: diplomacy.
Dream on. They got peace because the enemy was defeated. They kicked their asses and they weren't insane loons. Syria got it's ass kicked, too, but they're beholden to their Iranian masters. They also don't have the Golan Heights back either. Don't forget Israel traded Egyptian land for peace. Israel traded Jordanian land for peace. And how did they get this land? They won it when they were attacked by the swine and kicked their asses. Diplomacy my dick. Superior firepower is what got that peace.Quote:
They hope to push Hezbollah far enough back that they can't make physical incursions to kidnap and murder Israelis and to make it in the interests of the Lebanese people, and any other belligerent neighbor, to stop trying to kill all Jews. The rockets have a bit too much range. But if they constantly blow up everything near where the rockets are sent from maybe the people who live there will help them stop the attacks.
Very few have any problems with Israel pushing Hezbollah back away from the Israeli border for the protection of Israelis. What has outraged so many is not a prospective ground entry into southern Lebanon, but the quite-liberal air raiding of Lebanon and Beirut that has killed several hundred innocent people.
This is not at all clear as every Lebanese casualty is listed as a civilian. I have yet to see a Hez uniform. Some unfortunate inocents are dead. How many? Who knows.Quote:
Hamas is dead in the toilet
Good. I'm actually quite pleased with the Palestinians for choosing not to exploit the current situation in Lebanon to launch attacks on Israel. It's also a good sign that that the Palestinian police deliberately disobeyed Hamas' orders to attack Israeli troops in Gaza.
See, the biggest obstacle to peace in the region is popular sentiment, both Israeli and Arab. Neither populations are interested in peace. Some 86% of Israelis are in favor of disproportionate air raids, and the Palestinians, well, they voted Hamas into power.
I have never seen Israel come out with a statement that they wished to eradicate all Arabs and/or Muslims. They mostly just want to be left alone. To draw an equivalency between the two groups is utterly absurd. Disproportionate?????? Fuck that. You use overwhelming power to defeat the enemy. This is not a handicap bowling league. That is just such a stupid concept. You attack me, you get everything I got until you are dead or submit completely.Quote:
By and large, the average Israeli and the average Palestinian is a benighted, hate filled moron.
I would put up the education of the average Israel against yours. I would put up the education of the average Muslim against a well trained golden retriever. And even the dog won't shit in it's own yard.
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis


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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: zappaisgod]
#5904912 - 07/27/06 10:42 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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zappaisgod stated : Superior firepower is what got that peace
Amen.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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EquilibriuM
dream stalker

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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: SirTripAlot]
#5904976 - 07/27/06 11:03 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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363 dead in Lebanon, 320 of them civilians %11 combatants
37 dead in Israel, including 17 civilians %54 combatants
these numbers are from 3 days ago.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: EquilibriuM]
#5904997 - 07/27/06 11:13 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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linky linky linky linky please. Only 43 dead Hezbolloids? Methinks something stinks. As in I fucking doubt it. Very much.
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EquilibriuM
dream stalker

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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: zappaisgod]
#5905135 - 07/27/06 12:08 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: EquilibriuM]
#5905188 - 07/27/06 12:31 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thank you fpr the link. I still stand by my previous statement that I doubt the Hezbollah casualty figures.
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EquilibriuM
dream stalker

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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: zappaisgod]
#5905202 - 07/27/06 12:39 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Hank, FTW
Looking for the Answer

Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 3,912
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: zappaisgod]
#5905263 - 07/27/06 01:01 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Thank you fpr the link. I still stand by my previous statement that I doubt the Hezbollah casualty figures.
You are too much. Please tell me you are Jewish at least. Then I can understand your irrational support of Israel, otherwise I am lost.
-------------------- Capliberty: "I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: Hank, FTW]
#5905368 - 07/27/06 01:33 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I am not Jewish. I am an atheist of non-Jewish descent (I once read that most Jews are really atheists anyway but that is neither here nor there). No, I admire them because they are mostly self reliant. I know the US supplies a lot of aid but it is only because of the military situation they are in. They still use only their own soldiers. If they weren't under constant threat of annihilation by their neighbors we could cut them loose and they would do fine. My support for them is part and parcel of the fight against totalitarian thugs. Don't forget, it is not the US that drew the mideast map. Some European assholes did that. It is, nonetheless, what is. They have a tiny piece of the former Ottoman Empire. Let them have it. All the other shit has come about because some pricks couldn't and can't deal with that.
I was alive and read the papers when the '67 war occurred and there were millions aligned against them and they prevailed. It's not a history book thing for me, it's real life, and their enemies were wrong then and they are wrong now. Ask yourself this; How come Jordan, Syria, and Egypt wouldn't take the Palestinians in after they lost the war? Or Saudi Arabia or any of the others? Don't forget, there were way fewer of them before they started having children at an absurd pace for 30+ years. Why just blame Israel for the plight of these people? And what happened when they gave back the Gaza Strip? And Lebanon? They just got more attacks. I sometimes just throw my hands up in the air.
Either that or it's just Jew hating, which I don't get. At all. Even though I know it's out there in a big way. Whatever happened to the Duck anyway?
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: zappaisgod]
#5905535 - 07/27/06 02:26 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
I admire them because they are mostly self reliant
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: Redstorm]
#5905548 - 07/27/06 02:29 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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They have really cute little hats too.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: Redstorm]
#5905563 - 07/27/06 02:33 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Redstorm said:
Quote:
I admire them because they are mostly self reliant
They are. When has a single US soldier fought for them?
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Hank, FTW
Looking for the Answer

Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 3,912
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: zappaisgod]
#5905580 - 07/27/06 02:37 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: I am not Jewish. I am an atheist of non-Jewish descent (I once read that most Jews are really atheists anyway but that is neither here nor there). No, I admire them because they are mostly self reliant. I know the US supplies a lot of aid but it is only because of the military situation they are in. They still use only their own soldiers. If they weren't under constant threat of annihilation by their neighbors we could cut them loose and they would do fine. My support for them is part and parcel of the fight against totalitarian thugs. Don't forget, it is not the US that drew the mideast map. Some European assholes did that. It is, nonetheless, what is. They have a tiny piece of the former Ottoman Empire. Let them have it. All the other shit has come about because some pricks couldn't and can't deal with that.
I was alive and read the papers when the '67 war occurred and there were millions aligned against them and they prevailed. It's not a history book thing for me, it's real life, and their enemies were wrong then and they are wrong now. Ask yourself this; How come Jordan, Syria, and Egypt wouldn't take the Palestinians in after they lost the war? Or Saudi Arabia or any of the others? Don't forget, there were way fewer of them before they started having children at an absurd pace for 30+ years. Why just blame Israel for the plight of these people? And what happened when they gave back the Gaza Strip? And Lebanon? They just got more attacks. I sometimes just throw my hands up in the air.
Either that or it's just Jew hating, which I don't get. At all. Even though I know it's out there in a big way. Whatever happened to the Duck anyway?
So where is the Palestinians little piece of land? Don't you dare say Gaza or the West Bank, cause that is a joke. I get the whole, underdog thing, but really, comparing the Israeli military to any Arab country is a joke. They have nukes, modern aircraft, tanks, navy, artillery, advanced hand held weaponry, etc etc etc. What do the Palestinians have? AK-47's, rocks, and those shitty little rockets that miss 99% of the time.
You think Arabs just fire rockets into Israel for no other reason then they don't think they have a right to exist? Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Unless your Israel of course
-------------------- Capliberty: "I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: zappaisgod]
#5905589 - 07/27/06 02:38 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Nope, but that doesn't make them self-sufficient.
I receive money for food, tuition, and board from my parents while I am at school. Just because they don't come here and do my school work for me doesn't mean I'm self-sufficient. Good enough metapor?
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Hank, FTW
Looking for the Answer

Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 3,912
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: zappaisgod]
#5905591 - 07/27/06 02:39 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Redstorm said:
Quote:
I admire them because they are mostly self reliant
They are. When has a single US soldier fought for them?
Iraq for starters. That is a war which benefited Israel more than any other country IMO. If they did have WMD they were no threat to us, but who would they have been a threat against??
-------------------- Capliberty: "I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: Hank, FTW]
#5905715 - 07/27/06 03:11 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
alpharedecho said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: I am not Jewish. I am an atheist of non-Jewish descent (I once read that most Jews are really atheists anyway but that is neither here nor there). No, I admire them because they are mostly self reliant. I know the US supplies a lot of aid but it is only because of the military situation they are in. They still use only their own soldiers. If they weren't under constant threat of annihilation by their neighbors we could cut them loose and they would do fine. My support for them is part and parcel of the fight against totalitarian thugs. Don't forget, it is not the US that drew the mideast map. Some European assholes did that. It is, nonetheless, what is. They have a tiny piece of the former Ottoman Empire. Let them have it. All the other shit has come about because some pricks couldn't and can't deal with that.
I was alive and read the papers when the '67 war occurred and there were millions aligned against them and they prevailed. It's not a history book thing for me, it's real life, and their enemies were wrong then and they are wrong now. Ask yourself this; How come Jordan, Syria, and Egypt wouldn't take the Palestinians in after they lost the war? Or Saudi Arabia or any of the others? Don't forget, there were way fewer of them before they started having children at an absurd pace for 30+ years. Why just blame Israel for the plight of these people? And what happened when they gave back the Gaza Strip? And Lebanon? They just got more attacks. I sometimes just throw my hands up in the air.
Either that or it's just Jew hating, which I don't get. At all. Even though I know it's out there in a big way. Whatever happened to the Duck anyway?
So where is the Palestinians little piece of land? Don't you dare say Gaza or the West Bank, cause that is a joke. I get the whole, underdog thing, but really, comparing the Israeli military to any Arab country is a joke. They have nukes, modern aircraft, tanks, navy, artillery, advanced hand held weaponry, etc etc etc. What do the Palestinians have? AK-47's, rocks, and those shitty little rockets that miss 99% of the time.
You think Arabs just fire rockets into Israel for no other reason then they don't think they have a right to exist? Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Unless your Israel of course
The Palestinians' piece? I dunno. Where is it? Where was it ever? Jordan, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon. Israel, until they sided with the Arab invaders in '67 they were a voting part of Israel. They fucked up. They backed the losers. You avoid my questions, by the way, and don't think I'm not gonna keep hammering them.
No, I don't think Arabs keep firing rockets into Israel for no reason. But the Palestinians aren't the reason. The reason is that they hate JEWS and want to make everybody on the planet be a Muslim.
And you are managing to mention the Israeli tech superiority and compare it to the Palestinians'. That is not the opponent that threatens annihilation, nor is it the opponent that they are pounding into smithereens (hopefully) with that technology in Lebanon. It is Syria and Iran's puppet, supplied by them. Do you think it was a pally rocket that hit that ship? Fuck, it was probably fired by Iranians. And according to the low casualty numbers cited by someone else for Hez, the gap doesn't seem to be so big (although I don't believe them)
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: Redstorm]
#5905732 - 07/27/06 03:16 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Redstorm said: Nope, but that doesn't make them self-sufficient.
I receive money for food, tuition, and board from my parents while I am at school. Just because they don't come here and do my school work for me doesn't mean I'm self-sufficient. Good enough metapor?
You wanna play this, OK, I'll play. You're parents pay for only your books, you pay for everything else. Are you or are you not largely self sufficient? How about this one. Your parents pay for nothing but their taxes support the police force that keeps you from having your lunch money taken everyday. Are you or are you not largely self sufficient ( in your government subsidized university setting)?
We can play this little game all day.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: Hank, FTW]
#5905752 - 07/27/06 03:21 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
alpharedecho said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Redstorm said:
Quote:
I admire them because they are mostly self reliant
They are. When has a single US soldier fought for them?
Iraq for starters. That is a war which benefited Israel more than any other country IMO. If they did have WMD they were no threat to us, but who would they have been a threat against??
Nothing that happened in Iraq was done for Israel. If anything, you could say it was done for Kuwait and Saudi Arabia, who was clearly next on the adventurer's list, the first go round. And us and the world (even though they are to stupid, a lot of them, to know it) when it was completed. It cannot be worse than it was, it had nothing to do with the Jews and the only question is how much better will it be.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



Registered: 10/08/02
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: zappaisgod] 1
#5905806 - 07/27/06 03:38 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Could Israel exist without our support?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: Redstorm]
#5905868 - 07/27/06 03:59 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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If it wasn't under constant attack by millions of surrounding Muslim scum, absolutely.
Look, setting aside the whole idea of Israel, do you really want to encourage these troglodyte assholes into thinking that they can get anything at all with their vicious extortionate practices. There is so much wrong with the Muslim world that has absolutely nothing to do with Israel that it is almost anti-semitic to even conflate the two issues. Even if there were no Jews anywhere, and there aint that many anyway, there would still be a whole Jihadi problem. Because they are fucking crazy. Crazy. Crazy. Religious zealotry (and religion period) has been a pox on the planet for millennia. The only hope for mankind is people like me, reasonable atheists without irrational attachments to anything at all.
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Trepiodos
Disgustipated


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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: zappaisgod]
#5905885 - 07/27/06 04:03 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: No, I admire them because they are mostly self reliant.
Israel is a VERY socialist country and the largest recipient of U.S. foreign aid (last I heard). They are militaristic, not self reliant. They are still suckling the nipples of the U.S. taxpayers. They are also very dependent on a large U.S. military presence in the mid-east to bolster their position. U.S. support for them has gained us enemies with little to show for it (except maybe contributing to motivations for 9/11). It's time for the Israelis to grow up and stop leaching off of U.S. taxpayers.
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And as things fell apart, Nobody paid much attention... - David Byrne, '(Nothing But) Flowers' from the Talking Heads' album, 'Naked'
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: Trepiodos]
#5905989 - 07/27/06 04:35 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Trepiodos said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: No, I admire them because they are mostly self reliant.
Israel is a VERY socialist country and the largest recipient of U.S. foreign aid (last I heard). They are militaristic, not self reliant. They are still suckling the nipples of the U.S. taxpayers. They are also very dependent on a large U.S. military presence in the mid-east to bolster their position. U.S. support for them has gained us enemies with little to show for it (except maybe contributing to motivations for 9/11). It's time for the Israelis to grow up and stop leaching off of U.S. taxpayers.
Yes, it is true they are the largest recipient. They are only militaristic because anything else would be suicidal. If their fucking neighbors would stop trying to murder each and every one of them they wouldn't need one cent of US support. No they are not dependant on our large presence in the mideast and never have been. I don't give a fuck what enemies I gain from doing the right thing. They are clearly criminals. Every car thief hates cops. It's time for the Muslims to grow up and stop trying to murder Israelis
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EquilibriuM
dream stalker

Registered: 07/17/05
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: zappaisgod]
#5906165 - 07/27/06 05:41 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Please refer to the statics I posted earlier.
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: zappaisgod]
#5906662 - 07/27/06 08:11 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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The Lebanese government does not have the option to stand aside. They failed to live up to their agreement to disarm Hez and now they are going to be suffer consequences because Israel will not and cannot tolerate the acts of some of the Lebanese citizens who refuse to cease their belligerent behaviour. They have to side with Israel or they are not a government, they are a joke. As to the peacekeeping force, there is supposed to be one there already. You know, the UNIFIL that you mention further on down that was there to oversee the disarmament of Hezbollah. Apparently no country is willing to take on the task anyway. So, you might as well wait for Godot, the second coming of Jesus and set a place for Elijah. They aint coming. There is no cavalry over the hill.
I'm afraid the Lebanese government doesn't really have a logical choice at this moment other than to pull a Swiss. If they fight Hezbollah alongside Israel, they are potentially going to conjugate a civil war. Finally, the Lebanese military isn't much. Why does Israel "need" them?
No no no. This latest in from Al Q; "CAIRO, Egypt (AP) - Al-Qaida's No. 2 leader issued a worldwide call in a new videotape released Thursday for Muslims to rise up in a holy war against Israel and join the fighting in Lebanon and Gaza until Islam reigns from "Spain to Iraq." http://apnews.myway.com/article/20060727/D8J4AUMO0.html It has nothing to do with Shia vs Sunni. It is criminals versus the, allegedly, legitimate governments. And if they can't get a hold of their people they are complicit. As is the UN for standing idly by when they were supposed to be helping.
Al Qaeda is calling on Muslims to attack the "Zionists and Crusaders". Nothing new here, everyone pretty much expected Al Qaeda to comment one way or another on this gigantic elephant in the room. Notice how al-Zawhiri didn't even mention Hezbollah. Nasrallah is hardly a fan of Al-Qaeda, has condemned Osama bin Laden in the past and called on Shi'ite militants to completely refrain from attacking Americans in Lebanon. Not exactly on the same page as Al Qaeda. OBL and company are Salafist lunatics who hate Shi'ites. The only time they stop hating/killing each other is when they're distracted by a common enemy, and even then they get distracted by one another (Iraq).
I'm sorry that they are getting fucked. Most of them are probably decent. But, if you allow a murderer safe haven in your house, stand by while he amasses weapons, do nothing when he attacks and then let him back in your house with the police hot on his tail, all after you promised to do your best to stop him, you are going to have a problem. A big one. Israeli citizens obligations? Their obligations are to destroy the murdering thugs who threaten the rule of law all over the world by taking care of their small part of it. They seem to be stepping up to the plate. Perhaps because they realize, unlike their Muslim neighbors, that it is LAW which keeps us all safe, and cowardice only begets disaster. If they would ever show a willingness to expel the vipers from their midst they would find many, many people willing to help them. Help them, not do it for them. But they never do. Cowards.
Israeli citizens? The Israeli and Lebanese civilians (or any law-abiding compatriot on this planet) aren't obligated to do anything other than provide food and shelter for their families. Unless there's a draft or mandatory service, of course. 
I am not aware of any previous activity, except for an assassination attempt on Nasrullah gone awry, wherein Israel attempted to eliminate Hezbollah. And an assassiination isn't going to do it. Although it would have been a good start. Speaking terms? No, they are on shooting terms. May the best man win. Now get out of the way and let them at him.
Just how closely do you follow the Israeli-Arab conflict? Destroying Hezbollah has been an Israeli pipe dream for decades. What makes you think they can pull it off this year?
See this; "Read the UNIFIL press releases for yourself to learn that Hezbollah has not just shot at and seriously wounded UNIFIL observers - without any protest from Kofi Annan or The Age. You’ll also learn that UNIFIL has repeatedly reported Israeli shelling and bombing near UNIFIL outposts because Hezbollah fighters were shooting from right beside them ." http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andre...ost_was_bombed/
This was not a UN post far removed from the fighting. This was a bunch of fucking idiots used as human shields for Hez attacks. Key words here are "used" and "idiots". Kofi the fucking cunt should be prosecuted for allowing them to be used in that way. Or did he just want martyrs so he could condemn Israel. Given the past behaviour of the two groups, I find this far more likely than Israel deliberately bombing a clearly marked and removed U(seless)N(itwit) outpost.
Complete utter goatshit. You have no proof that the UN allowed Hezbollah to use such outposts as some kind of cannon fodder.
Got a link for that? I got a link or two, one from a useless nitwit;
"BEIRUT, Lebanon - The U.N. humanitarian chief accused Hezbollah on Monday of "cowardly blending" in among Lebanese civilians and causing the deaths of hundreds during two weeks of cross-border violence with Israel..... "Consistently, from the Hezbollah heartland, my message was that Hezbollah must stop this cowardly blending ... among women and children," he said. "I heard they were proud because they lost very few fighters and that it was the civilians bearing the brunt of this. I don't think anyone should be proud of having many more children and women dead than armed men." http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060724/ap_on_re_mi_ea/mideast_fighting_aid
Not surprising, really. We're talking about stateless actors here. You made the claim that Hezbollah was firing rockets from civilian locality. 5 days ago an Israeli general told CNN (either Miles O'Brien or Anderson Cooper) that it was difficult to immediately respond to newly fired Hezbollah rockets, citing that they normally fire them from ready-to-hightail pick up trucks. I'm not entirely sure what the definition of "blending" is either when referring to cladestinos. Storing weapons in civilian locations? Eating and sleeping in civilian locations? But Israel - they have been bombing civilian infrastructure that has nothing to do with Hezbollah; bridges, generators, pretty much everything a country needs to function properly. Lebanese people are literally forced to take shelter as soon as they hear an Israeli drone scoping the area. Intuitively, they know Israel simply doesn't give a shit where their 500 pound bombs land. The fleeing American expats also likely had the same feeling.
No, Israel's pull out was not a gesture at all. A gesture is a fake thing. They actually did pull out. Now, I want the link to the assassin cell. As to the drones and IAF, the sentence is incomprehensible and I have no idea what you mean by psych warfare here.
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2006-06/13/content_4694573.htm
Once again, the governments seem to be dealing with it however they deal with it. Hezbollah has no say. They are just criminals, NOT GOVERNMENTS. You can't always get what you want. Tough shit, they need to grow up and quit whining when they don't get all the toys they want. I can't believe you can't see that. It's just an excuse to kill Jews anyway
You're starting to sound like a broken record. What should be done about undelineatad territory? Should Israel annex Sheebaa Farms? Should they give it to Lebanon? Syria? Just what is the solution here, because they're not using it for any practical purpose. It is not just a Hezballoid excuse. Lebanese Shi'ites in general want Israel out of the farms. You say "Tough shit". Well, that's pretty much the sentiment among Hezbollah leniency in Lebanon. Israel is too dense to get it, they think every dot and tittle of anger towards them is simply anti-Semitism.
Yes, but not by murdering criminals who have not the least notion of compromise, only death. They are merely death merchants. How come no one ever hears of this Hezbollah rallying cry, "Sheeba Farms or Death"? Because it isn't one. What they want is all of Israel with no Jews. If you think they would stop their bullshit if they were given the Sheeba Farms, I gotta bridge to sell you.
Do you have a link to back that presumption up? It has never really been about Hezbollah's perspective (in Lebanon) in regard to Sheebaa Farms. Alot of Lebanese feel the Israeli presence in Sheebaa Farms is illegal and unjust. Even Christians who hate Hezbollah want Israel out of Sheebaa Farms. Hezbollah is simply the explosive common denominator of a preceding popular sentiment.
Dream on. They got peace because the enemy was defeated. They kicked their asses and they weren't insane loons. Syria got it's ass kicked, too, but they're beholden to their Iranian masters. They also don't have the Golan Heights back either. Don't forget Israel traded Egyptian land for peace. Israel traded Jordanian land for peace. And how did they get this land? They won it when they were attacked by the swine and kicked their asses. Diplomacy my dick. Superior firepower is what got that peace.
No, if you'll look in your history books (or Wikipedia), you'll find that there was no threat of force against Egypt or Jordan if they did not make peace with Israel. Egypt and Jordan could have easily gone the route of the rogue, and their governments would still be standing today (except with a bit of lost land).
This is not at all clear as every Lebanese casualty is listed as a civilian. I have yet to see a Hez uniform. Some unfortunate inocents are dead. How many? Who knows.
In the next few days the Lebanese death toll will likely reach the 500 mark (it's estimated that 450+ plus are dead, around 350 have been officially documented as deceased). Pales in comparison to the few dozen Israelis who have been killed by Hezbollah rockets. What's more tragic is that Hezbollah could have been dealt with accordingly by Israeli force without all those deaths.
I have never seen Israel come out with a statement that they wished to eradicate all Arabs and/or Muslims. They mostly just want to be left alone. To draw an equivalency between the two groups is utterly absurd. Disproportionate?????? Fuck that. You use overwhelming power to defeat the enemy. This is not a handicap bowling league. That is just such a stupid concept. You attack me, you get everything I got until you are dead or submit completely.
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Did you read my post too fast or something? Disproportionate, yes. Israel is entitled to beat down whatever group of bandits that threaten her, as any nation should and would. They are not entitled however, to destroy the civilian infrastructure of another country.
I would put up the education of the average Israel against yours.
Can't disagree with someone without calling them stupid? You know, in this reponse I was going to thank you for an interesting debate. But clearly you're taking it to heart. 
It's OK, I still love you for answering my baseball questions in the Brothel a few weeks ago
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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Trepiodos
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: zappaisgod]
#5906740 - 07/27/06 08:25 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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zappaisgod said: Yes, it is true they are the largest recipient.
Then they are not self reliant.
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They are only militaristic because anything else would be suicidal.
The state of Israel STARTED OUT militaristic. It started with terrorism, with large numbers of Jewish people who were not from the area, but from Europe. This alone, should give a contemplative person pause as to the righteousness of the establishment of a religious based state in an area which was inhabited by people of various faiths for generations. Do you always support the establishment of a state based on a particular religion? If not, why not?
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If their fucking neighbors would stop trying to murder each and every one of them they wouldn't need one cent of US support.
No, if the Zionist lobby was not so powerful, along with the Christian fundamentalist nut balls, along with the neo-con sycophants who get chubbies every time they hear about their government bombing little brown people, perhaps they wouldn't get the U.S. government's support. The Israelis should learn to stand on their own feet and quit feeding at the U.S. government pig trough. Do you always support parasitic behavior? If not, why not?
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No they are not dependant on our large presence in the mideast and never have been.
I said, 'bolster.' It always helps to have a very large bully on your side ready to back you up when you kick ass on a bunch of those who are weaker than you, just in case the weaklings should decide to gang up on you. It also helps to have the U.S. buy off and support various other regimes in the area with the understanding that Israel is to be left alone.
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I don't give a fuck what enemies I gain from doing the right thing.
But YOU are not doing the right thing, you only puff up your virtual chest on an internet BBS and perhaps vote to have others perform actions as your proxy. You are (maybe) electorally supporting certain politicians in your government so they may extort money from your fellow citizens to help out a foreign power in a manner which does not benefit your country one bit, but in fact breeds enemies. This is traitorous. The U.S. government was established for the people of the United States, not to support a Jewish state.
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And as things fell apart, Nobody paid much attention... - David Byrne, '(Nothing But) Flowers' from the Talking Heads' album, 'Naked'
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mack_tasticlies
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: Trepiodos]
#5907958 - 07/28/06 04:04 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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It seems to me the actions in the region are at present a necessary evil, they all need to come to an understanding.
If a few thousand people need to die right now so that they may establish a peace, I say it is sad, but not necessarily without justification.
You have to consider the long term affects.
Israel will never know the glory of pristine sanctuary as long as Muslims from the North, and East and South continue to rain down fire on them.
This a conflict dating back thousands of years, Hezbollah, A militant religious faction feels entitled to the land Israel has occupied for fifty years now,
It was land promised to them by that swine God of theirs, The Jews also having be lead forth from Pharaoh were also promised this little stretch of land by that swine God of theirs.
Until Israel makes it more painful for the Muslims to start jumping bad than it is worth, the conflict will never cease and the death count will become first thousands and then eventually millions.
I can't believe for one moment, especially in the region Hezbollah has dug in there is one person without ties to their organization, except for the children.
It is a community outreach organization, laudable in fact for the care they provide their people. If they weren't secondly murderous holy war mongers. The people of south Lebanon loves them some Hezzies.
Also consider the fact that Hezbollah represents a third of the Entire country, as well as third of the Official Lebanese Government.
Those numbers hardly seem insignificant to me, and when push comes to shove and shove turns to pummeling, they the people and the officials of the country should be prepared for the repercussions. They have allowed this nonsense to continue unabated and even perpetuated this shit.
If they were truly innocents, then they would have long since driven out the uninnocent and spared the wrath of the ultimate God, Tic for a Tac.
Edited by mack_tasticlies (07/28/06 05:53 AM)
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RosettaStoned
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: Trepiodos]
#5908984 - 07/28/06 01:34 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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-------------------- "Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson "Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: Trepiodos]
#5909512 - 07/28/06 04:46 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Trepiodos said:
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zappaisgod said: Yes, it is true they are the largest recipient.
Then they are not self reliant.
You would do well to read the whole sentence, grasshopper, which was that they are "mostly" self reliant. Or do you deliberately attempt to cut and paste in such a manner as to distort what I said?Quote:
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They are only militaristic because anything else would be suicidal.
The state of Israel STARTED OUT militaristic. It started with terrorism, with large numbers of Jewish people who were not from the area, but from Europe. This alone, should give a contemplative person pause as to the righteousness of the establishment of a religious based state in an area which was inhabited by people of various faiths for generations. Do you always support the establishment of a state based on a particular religion? If not, why not?
For the umpteenth time I will explain that the entire mideast map is a construct of the victors from the two world wars. It was made and it is settled. That fight is over. Israel has no more artificial borders than any other nation in the region. That is a fact. There were always Jews there and more Jews fled there later after they were granted a state and murdered throughout, THROUGHOUT, Europe. As to the religion thing, I don't know, all religion is for idiots. It just seems to me that this particular group of idiots in a tiny sliver of resource free land gets far more than its share of hatred from a bunch of equally idiotic, actually even more idiotic in their zealous fervor, assholes. Was Israel forced to actually fight for what they were supposedly given from day one? Yes they were, because their neighbors refused to recognize for Israel the same thing that was given them.Quote:
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If their fucking neighbors would stop trying to murder each and every one of them they wouldn't need one cent of US support.
No, if the Zionist lobby was not so powerful, along with the Christian fundamentalist nut balls, along with the neo-con sycophants who get chubbies every time they hear about their government bombing little brown people, perhaps they wouldn't get the U.S. government's support. The Israelis should learn to stand on their own feet and quit feeding at the U.S. government pig trough. Do you always support parasitic behavior? If not, why not?
Hey, genius, Jews and Arabs are the same race. They are equally brown. If their neighbors weren't murederous maniacs we wouldn't have to help them at all. And they would be even further ahead of their troglodyte neighbors than they already are. But their neighbors ARE murderous maniacs and religious whack jobs intent on turning the whole world into an allah worshipping pedophile. I have never heard of any Jew interested in making anyone convert to Judaism, whether by the sword or the word. The goat humpers seem to prefer the sword.Quote:
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No they are not dependant on our large presence in the mideast and never have been.
I said, 'bolster.' It always helps to have a very large bully on your side ready to back you up when you kick ass on a bunch of those who are weaker than you, just in case the weaklings should decide to gang up on you. It also helps to have the U.S. buy off and support various other regimes in the area with the understanding that Israel is to be left alone.
We do not have troops in the mideast for Israel. We have them there for Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. What, were you 2 in 1990? Get a clue. And start paying taxes before you whine about where they're being spent. I'd rather cut off your school aid, myself. So now you want us to stop giving any aid to the Arabs and Egyptians too. Well, that's actually consistent. No aid to anyone. Naive and selfish but consistent. And if you think Jordan and Egypt backed off because of the money, you are sadly deludedQuote:
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I don't give a fuck what enemies I gain from doing the right thing.
But YOU are not doing the right thing, you only puff up your virtual chest on an internet BBS and perhaps vote to have others perform actions as your proxy. You are (maybe) electorally supporting certain politicians in your government so they may extort money from your fellow citizens to help out a foreign power in a manner which does not benefit your country one bit, but in fact breeds enemies. This is traitorous. The U.S. government was established for the people of the United States, not to support a Jewish state.
I will chop this up. I think we are doing the right thing by helping Israel to avoid eradication by its psychotic neighbors. And, I don't give a fuck what you think. You and your ilk are marginalized, so you can pretty much go piss up a rope and see what that gets you. The money sent to Israel is peanuts. And I'm quite happy to see it sent if it just sends a message to intolerant religious jerkoffs that we will not be cowed by their shit. I have no problem with being perceived as an enemy by murderes, rapists, thieves, pedophiles, etc. Ever. You are not in any position or of any information which would allow you to determine what is in the interest of the USA. You are, I suspect, barely out of childhood. If the duly elected representatives of the USA decide that it is in its interest to support Israel than you have no standing to override it. You are basicly a loud noise that is fairly easily ignored as a minority. Win an election and you can impose your policy. Until then your views are mud.
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zappaisgod
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: Basilides]
#5909810 - 07/28/06 07:12 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Basilides said:
When the enemy uses minivans and ambulances for troop carriers and fires rockets from houses and mosques, it is the enemy that makes those things targets.
Got any evidence of this? I've never heard of Hezbollah using ambulances or mosques for that matter. The IDF itself has said that Hezbollah mostly fires rockets from pick up trucks in order to move out quickly.
I don't have a video of hez using them but I have one of some pricks in the Gaza. And they qualify as enemy to me. http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=21813_Palestinian_Terrorists_in_UN_Ambulances#comments
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Trepiodos
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: zappaisgod]
#5910138 - 07/28/06 09:22 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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zappaisgod said: they are "mostly" self reliant.
They are the recipients of the largest amount of foreign aid from the U.S. of any country. For a country small enough to fit into almost any state of the U.S., mostly parasitic is more appropriate.
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Was Israel forced to actually fight for what they were supposedly given from day one?
Given? At the expense of the people who occupied the land for generations? European Jews had no right to claim the land and create a state in the mid-east, no more than Germans had a right to claim land in Poland and integrate it into the German state. The wrongs committed against European Jews do not qualify as justification for them to be party to carving out a state hundreds of miles away in a land that was foreign to them.
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Hey, genius, Jews and Arabs are the same race. They are equally brown.
It's nice that you can flatter me by assuming that my intellect is superior to your own. However, your statement regarding Jews and Arabs is only partially true. Shepardic Jews and Palestinians are in fact a common people separated by religion, but the Ashkenazi are of a different ancestry. The Ashkenazi are not equally brown in comparison to the semitic peoples and in fact many are blond haired and blue eyed.
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If their neighbors weren't murederous maniacs we wouldn't have to help them at all.
I thought the Israelis were mostly self-reliant? The fact is, 'we' do NOT have to help them at all. It is not the job of the U.S. government, it is not in the constitution as an enumerated duty of the federal government.
Surely, you are not so blind and narrow minded as to assume that all Arabs or Muslims are as you paint them, are you?
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I have never heard of any Jew interested in making anyone convert to Judaism
Try dating a Jewish American Princess sometime, in a serious relationship where marriage is discussed.
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We do not have troops in the mideast for Israel. We have them there for Kuwait and Saudi Arabia.
Friendly regimes who are propped up by the U.S. military and cajoled into getting along with Israel. Apparently, you have not informed yourself about the lobby, AIPAC, nor the many supporters of Israel inside the U.S. government who shape U.S. policy specifically to benefit Israel.
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Get a clue.
Well that would put me at least one clue ahead of you. Thanks anyways, but I have quite a preponderance of clues as well as knowledge of many things.
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And start paying taxes before you whine about where they're being spent. I'd rather cut off your school aid, myself.
I have been paying taxes for several decades, I do not whine. By 'cut off school aid,' do you mean that you can help me to stop paying property taxes to aid the public schools? Are you a public school graduate?
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So now you want us to stop giving any aid to the Arabs and Egyptians too. Well, that's actually consistent. No aid to anyone. Naive and selfish but consistent.
It is neither naive, nor selfish. I do not wish to force others by proxy of the U.S. government to support causes which are CONTRARY to national interests and may be against the wishes and morality of my fellow citizens.
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I think we are doing the right thing by helping Israel to avoid eradication by its psychotic neighbors.
Correction, 'we' (meaning, including you) are not doing anything. Again, at the most (besides fulminating on an internet BBS) you are merely voting for others to do things with extorted tax money. Feel free to donate your own money to support Israel or anyone else you like, I will not stop you, nor will I offer protest (unless the recipients attack the U.S., spy on the U.S., steal U.S. government secrets or attack my loved ones).
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And, I don't give a fuck what you think.
Then why do you take the time to bloviate?
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You and your ilk are marginalized, so you can pretty much go piss up a rope and see what that gets you.
I just want to take this opportunity to say that I am really impressed with your display of anonymous internet manhood. Not only that, by contrast to you, you make it easy for others to appear extraordinarily civil.
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The money sent to Israel is peanuts.
Yes, I suppose when it's other people's money it's peanuts to you. But I am pretty much certain that you are not providing all U.S. aid to the country single handedly. It is not your money to give to a foreign power. A foreign power I might add, which has spied on the U.S., stolen U.S. government secrets and even attacked U.S. targets.
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You are not in any position or of any information which would allow you to determine what is in the interest of the USA.
I have access to quite a bit of information, including U.S. debt figures and quotes from people who have actually been involved in attacking U.S. targets in which they state that the U.S. policy in support of Israel is a major motivating factor in their attacks.
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You are, I suspect, barely out of childhood.
When I see your repeated references to the age of people you disagree with (which is irrelevant to the arguments presented) and how incredibly off you are in your estimations, it comes as no surprise that you can be so wrong about other things as well.
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And as things fell apart, Nobody paid much attention... - David Byrne, '(Nothing But) Flowers' from the Talking Heads' album, 'Naked'
Edited by Trepiodos (07/28/06 09:39 PM)
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RosettaStoned
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: Trepiodos]
#5911001 - 07/29/06 02:14 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Like I've been pointing out for a very long time, the #1 tactic of right-wing debating is to attack anyone who disagrees with you and avoid directly addressing their argument. Thus you can spend the time trying to discredit the speaker and sidestep any real debate. Phred and Zappa are the kings of this on this board, there are a few others too but they mostly take notes from those two.
It is clear he had no reason to bring your age into that discussion, what reason is there unless he wanted to draw attention away from what you were saying? It's quite obvious really.
-------------------- "Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson "Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa
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Phred
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: RosettaStoned]
#5911824 - 07/29/06 11:50 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Like I've been pointing out for a very long time, the #1 tactic of right-wing debating is to attack anyone who disagrees with you and avoid directly addressing their argument. Thus you can spend the time trying to discredit the speaker and sidestep any real debate. Phred and Zappa are the kings of this on this board, there are a few others too but they mostly take notes from those two.
Psychologists call statements like this "projection".
My dear Rosetta, I invite you to post a link to any thread in which I have been involved in an ongoing discussion where I have avoided directly addressing an argument. Any one. Go back four years if you must.
The fact of the matter is that I always directly answer questions asked of me in a debate (unless of course it's a matter of repeating for the thirtieth time the same points I had last covered a week or two earlier in the umpteenth thread on a missile crashing into the Pentagon, etc., in which case I tell my opponent to check the archives), and I address all points raised. The same is far from true of my opponents. Come to think of it, you yourself have dodged more than a few of my points in our own discussions.
Out of curiosity, which point do you feel zappa has left unaddressed in this thread?
Phred
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zappaisgod
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: Trepiodos]
#5912673 - 07/29/06 05:37 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Trepiodos said:
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zappaisgod said: they are "mostly" self reliant.
They are the recipients of the largest amount of foreign aid from the U.S. of any country. For a country small enough to fit into almost any state of the U.S., mostly parasitic is more appropriate.
I am going to say it again. If they were not under constant assault by their neighbors we wouldn't have to send them one nickel. They receive our support strictly because of the lawless thugs surrounding them. The money is spent to ensure international order pursuant to the edicts set forth when the boundaries of the middle east were drawn.
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Was Israel forced to actually fight for what they were supposedly given from day one?
Given? At the expense of the people who occupied the land for generations? European Jews had no right to claim the land and create a state in the mid-east, no more than Germans had a right to claim land in Poland and integrate it into the German state. The wrongs committed against European Jews do not qualify as justification for them to be party to carving out a state hundreds of miles away in a land that was foreign to them.
More dishonest cutting and pasting. Here is the whole paragraph
"For the umpteenth time I will explain that the entire mideast map is a construct of the victors from the two world wars. It was made and it is settled. That fight is over. Israel has no more artificial borders than any other nation in the region. That is a fact. There were always Jews there and more Jews fled there later after they were granted a state and murdered throughout, THROUGHOUT, Europe. As to the religion thing, I don't know, all religion is for idiots. It just seems to me that this particular group of idiots in a tiny sliver of resource free land gets far more than its share of hatred from a bunch of equally idiotic, actually even more idiotic in their zealous fervor, assholes. Was Israel forced to actually fight for what they were supposedly given from day one? Yes they were, because their neighbors refused to recognize for Israel the same thing that was given them."
They didn't "claim the land" it was given them when the mideast borders were drawn. Further, no Arabs were evicted then. The Palestinian refugees became so when they backed the wrong side. Tough for losers. The European Jews did not carve out Israel and slaughter or evict the natives. It simply didn't happen. A state was created for the Jews and it was made open, by the Israeli government, to any Jew who wanted to come. The borders were tiny and the country had no resources but many Jews fled Europe, because of the anti-semitism there, looking for a better life. They did not kick the indigenous Arabs out.
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Hey, genius, Jews and Arabs are the same race. They are equally brown.
It's nice that you can flatter me by assuming that my intellect is superior to your own. However, your statement regarding Jews and Arabs is only partially true. Shepardic Jews and Palestinians are in fact a common people separated by religion, but the Ashkenazi are of a different ancestry. The Ashkenazi are not equally brown in comparison to the semitic peoples and in fact many are blond haired and blue eyed.
You responded to this by assuming I meant Jews were brown. No, grasshopper, the fact is that my meaning was actually more to assert that Arabs are not "brown". Any more than Sicilians or Greeks or Spaniards.
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If their neighbors weren't murederous maniacs we wouldn't have to help them at all.
I thought the Israelis were mostly self-reliant? The fact is, 'we' do NOT have to help them at all. It is not the job of the U.S. government, it is not in the constitution as an enumerated duty of the federal government.
It is in our interests to enforce orderly borders throughout the world. That you do not seem to think so is of no relevance. We have no obligation to do so but we certainly can if we see it as advantageous. Your views are clearly not shared by those in power or even most Americans. (Don't forget, the whole Iraq issue is because Hussein invaded Kuwait ("brown" people, you know), a border incursion.) You can stamp your feet all you want, but yours is a minority view and you clearly have no notion of constitutional law since this has been going on for decades and has never been constitutionally challenged.
Surely, you are not so blind and narrow minded as to assume that all Arabs or Muslims are as you paint them, are you?
There's a fucking billion of them. I don't expect them all to be anything. They don't all have to be murdering thugs to be a problem, just enough of them. Compound that by the fact that a major portion of their brethren aid and abet their activities and that not one, I repeat, NOT ONE, Muslim leader has been able to stand up against the thuggery and bring them back from the abyss and it becomes quite easy to develop a sense of disgust
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I have never heard of any Jew interested in making anyone convert to Judaism
Try dating a Jewish American Princess sometime, in a serious relationship where marriage is discussed.
I married one. You seem to be equating the Muslim "convert or die" ultimatum with the JAP "convert or I'll stop sucking your dick" ultimatum. I hope this isn't true, because only a stupid asshole would do that and we've already established that you're a genius. By the way, I didn't convert. She didn't even ask.
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We do not have troops in the mideast for Israel. We have them there for Kuwait and Saudi Arabia.
Friendly regimes who are propped up by the U.S. military and cajoled into getting along with Israel. Bullshit. The regimes are not propped up by the US military, thewhole countries were protected by the international community against Hussein. And S.A. is NOT friendly or supportive of Israel. I doubt Kuwait is too.
Apparently, you have not informed yourself about the lobby, AIPAC, nor the many supporters of Israel inside the U.S. government who shape U.S. policy specifically to benefit Israel.
I am fully aware that every foreign government has lobbyists in Washington DC. Are you?
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And start paying taxes before you whine about where they're being spent. I'd rather cut off your school aid, myself.
I have been paying taxes for several decades, I do not whine. By 'cut off school aid,' do you mean that you can help me to stop paying property taxes to aid the public schools? Are you a public school graduate?
For some reason I suspect that you have not been "paying taxes for decades." Otherwise you wouldn't be so ignorant of middle eastern history. Either that or they just started publishing newspapers where you live.
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So now you want us to stop giving any aid to the Arabs and Egyptians too. Well, that's actually consistent. No aid to anyone. Naive and selfish but consistent.
It is neither naive, nor selfish. I do not wish to force others by proxy of the U.S. government to support causes which are CONTRARY to national interests and may be against the wishes and morality of my fellow citizens.
The only problem with this is that the wishes and morality of your "fellow citizens" don't happen to be in a majority or in power. I don't know who your "fellow citizens" are but, fortunately, there aren't enough of "them" to make policy. Tough shit. And it is naive to think that we can be isolationist. Completely and utterly under the sheets with the night light on naive. Those days are long gone, grasshopper.
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I think we are doing the right thing by helping Israel to avoid eradication by its psychotic neighbors.
Correction, 'we' (meaning, including you) are not doing anything. Again, at the most (besides fulminating on an internet BBS) you are merely voting for others to do things with extorted tax money. Feel free to donate your own money to support Israel or anyone else you like, I will not stop you, nor will I offer protest (unless the recipients attack the U.S., spy on the U.S., steal U.S. government secrets or attack my loved ones).
Whatever. Forget the ludicrous masturbation over "extorted" tax money, I am doing something by voting for people who are adult enough to understand global policy. They are doing what I want them to do. And they are in a position to do so because people like me voted them in and contribute to their campaigns.
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You and your ilk are marginalized, so you can pretty much go piss up a rope and see what that gets you.
I just want to take this opportunity to say that I am really impressed with your display of anonymous internet manhood. Not only that, by contrast to you, you make it easy for others to appear extraordinarily civil. You ARE marginalized and you can pretty much go piss up a rope
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The money sent to Israel is peanuts.
Yes, I suppose when it's other people's money it's peanuts to you. But I am pretty much certain that you are not providing all U.S. aid to the country single handedly. It is not your money to give to a foreign power. A foreign power I might add, which has spied on the U.S., stolen U.S. government secrets and even attacked U.S. targets.
Once again, I think it is money well spent. And I pay a disgusting amount in taxes. If it was up to me we wouldn't waste a cent rebuilding New Orleans. But we do. Oh well, I can't get everything I want.
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You are not in any position or of any information which would allow you to determine what is in the interest of the USA.
I have access to quite a bit of information, including U.S. debt figures and quotes from people who have actually been involved in attacking U.S. targets in which they state that the U.S. policy in support of Israel is a major motivating factor in their attacks.
Two things here. Foreign aid is a miniscule portion of the federal budget. Miniscule. And isolationism is no longer a viable alternative.
And I don't give a shit what these murdering thugs' motivation is. They are international criminals. They are not to be pandered to and they should be hunted down and killed. Al Q never cited Israel. At least not until they got a PR agent, which was well after the attacks. Other criminals assassinated Sadat. Was he an Israeli shill? No, he just realized that the existence of Israel is a done deal. If it wasn't for the criminals we wouldn't need police. It is not the citizenry's fault that we have to spend money on police. It is the criminal's. It is exactly the same situation.
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You are, I suspect, barely out of childhood.
When I see your repeated references to the age of people you disagree with (which is irrelevant to the arguments presented) and how incredibly off you are in your estimations, it comes as no surprise that you can be so wrong about other things as well.
No, I'm usually pretty correct. And when I see posts as utterly ignorant of history as yours I make reasonable guesses that they are from youth. I think I'm being charitable.
The age is relevant in so many ways that I completely doubt you would bother making this distinction if you were not in fact quite youthful yourself. Have you learned nothing in your oh so many years on this earth? Have not your very thought processes changed over the decades? Did you read any newspapers at all when the news was happening? Because what you spew is straight out of a text for Aryan Nation. And I don't give a fuck whether you like that characterization either.
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Trepiodos
Disgustipated


Registered: 06/30/06
Posts: 469
Loc: Los Angeles County Jail
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: zappaisgod]
#5913418 - 07/29/06 10:47 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Full of unfounded assertions, horrendously wrong guesses, emotion laden crudity and bereft of reason, reading your posts reminds me of some words that that are strangely appropriate in this context, "a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." (Macbeth Act V, Scene V).
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And as things fell apart, Nobody paid much attention... - David Byrne, '(Nothing But) Flowers' from the Talking Heads' album, 'Naked'
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Meat_Log_Smurf
FumbDuck

Registered: 01/31/03
Posts: 1,144
Loc: BFE
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: MAIA]
#5922757 - 08/01/06 06:37 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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