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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: GazzBut]
    #5893948 - 07/24/06 10:18 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

No matter how justified a country is in attacking another, you will always have pundits throwing in the "innocent people" equation.

Being actually involved in situations where I have seen firsthand, the deaths of innocents, brings me pause, when this equation is thrown in. However, I do come to the same opinion in the end.

War has always encompassed the death of innocents. It is one trait that will never subside. Just like war itself, it is inevitable. I do applaud people who do take the stance of anti-war, based on their respective moral or political grounds, however, in the real world, this stance is a fantasy. I wish no death on any Innocent, just like I do not wish for war. However, unfortunately, this will not happen:

Out of ALL recorded history, there has not been a major war in only 360 years.


Humans kill other humans. Nations fight nations. In the fog of war, I believe, it up to each individual to pick a side.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #5894358 - 07/24/06 01:33 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

war itself, it is inevitable.




I think you lack vision.


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #5894401 - 07/24/06 01:48 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Out of ALL recorded history, there has not been a major war in only 360 years.





Sadly, The 360 years of no major wars.... was just preparation for the next major war.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: GazzBut]
    #5894810 - 07/24/06 04:17 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

GazzBut said:
Quote:

What is it that you think Israel should have done? I am at a loss to come up with anything other than this.




Off the top of my head, special forces could be employed to take out Hezbollah leaders etc and try to rescue hostages as opposed to the heavy handed destruction of the infrastructure of the country which is causing such a heavy toll of civillian casualties. Actions which in the long run will only serve to increase hatred towards Israel in the Lebanon specifically and the Arab states in general.




In which case there would be world wide condemnation of their assassination tactics and little to no effect on the thousands and thousands of regular Hezbolloids. They have no idea at all where the hostages are. And increasing hatred toward Israel among Arabs predisposed to that is impossible. Further, there is a very large segment of the Muslim world that is quite disgusted with Hezbollah for this. I ask again, why isn't the duly elected government of Lebanon assisting in the hunt for Hezbollah and the hostages? It would seem that it would be in their interest to assert authority in their own country over the lawless scum who wish to co-opt them for their own perverted agenda.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: GazzBut]
    #5895079 - 07/24/06 05:45 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

GazzBut said:
Quote:

war itself, it is inevitable.




I think you lack vision.





I think you lack reality of recorded history and current events.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #5895097 - 07/24/06 05:52 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

The whole "people die in war" mentality is pretty much used by all sides of the fence in any conflict. Mention to a Hezbollah supporter that one of their rockets killed an old lady they'll tell you the same thing as the IDF if you let them know that one of their bunker busters took out an entire family.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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Invisiblequiver
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: Basilides]
    #5896845 - 07/25/06 01:43 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

the difference being tho is when our side hits a civilian shield we atleast say we regret it publicly

your kind cheer and jeer at the site of a dead corpse,infact i'm sure their applause at an innocents death/mutilation borders on sexual gratification


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: quiver]
    #5896911 - 07/25/06 02:09 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

:rolleyes:


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: quiver]
    #5896917 - 07/25/06 02:12 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

quiver said:
the difference being tho is when our side hits a civilian shield we atleast say we regret it publicly

your kind cheer and jeer at the site of a dead corpse,infact i'm sure their applause at an innocents death/mutilation borders on sexual gratification




Yea.. What is the deal with those gatherings where Muslims cheer and shit? I mean damn... That shit makes for a juicy target cause you know everyone that's there is a target for laser guided bombs.


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


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Invisiblequiver
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: Basilides]
    #5896924 - 07/25/06 02:14 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

i'm sure you'll have more to say when the other two goats,i mean sheep get here,thats when the nails,rouge and lippie really comes out so until then... :eatadick:


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Invisiblequiver
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: downforpot]
    #5896934 - 07/25/06 02:18 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

downforpot said:
Quote:

quiver said:
the difference being tho is when our side hits a civilian shield we atleast say we regret it publicly

your kind cheer and jeer at the site of a dead corpse,infact i'm sure their applause at an innocents death/mutilation borders on sexual gratification




Yea.. What is the deal with those gatherings where Muslims cheer and shit? I mean damn... That shit makes for a juicy target cause you know everyone that's there is a target for laser guided bombs.




it might have something to do with only being allowed to wear dull,sullen earthy colours period,bright coulours offend them because we like them


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: quiver]
    #5896940 - 07/25/06 02:21 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

quiver said:
i'm sure you'll have more to say when the other two goats,i mean sheep get here,thats when the nails,rouge and lippie really comes out so until then... :eatadick:




In English please?


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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Invisiblequiver
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: Basilides]
    #5897018 - 07/25/06 02:54 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

i'd rather say it in arabic....


Kos okht ile nafadak Ya manache'h
air il'e yoshmotak:D
translation:go in peace my brother:D


--------------------


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5897217 - 07/25/06 06:04 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

In which case there would be world wide condemnation of their assassination tactics




I dont agreee. I think the world would think it was perfectly acceptable to limit casualties.

Quote:

They have no idea at all where the hostages are.




How do you know? Hotline to Mossad is it?

Quote:

And increasing hatred toward Israel among Arabs predisposed to that is impossible.




Of course but there are plenty of Arabs who are not predisposed.

Quote:

I ask again, why isn't the duly elected government of Lebanon assisting in the hunt for Hezbollah and the hostages?




The Lebanese government has little or no power over Hezbollah. Even though many Lebanese are against Hezbollah's current actions they respect them for ending Israel's occupation in 2000 and also for their provision of social services. It is probabaly not going to make the situation better from a Lebanese point of view by starting a civil war. The Israelis are obviously fully aware of that.


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: GazzBut]
    #5898738 - 07/25/06 04:12 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

GazzBut said:
Quote:

In which case there would be world wide condemnation of their assassination tactics




I dont agreee. I think the world would think it was perfectly acceptable to limit casualties.




Well, seeing as how the world has condemned them for such acts in the past, I think I'm on pretty firm ground. In fact, I'm on really firm ground;

"United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan denounced Yassin’s killing as a “targeted assassination.” He continued, “Such actions are not only contrary to international law, but they do not do anything to help the search for a peaceful solution.”
http://www.pww.org/article/articleview/4987/1/208

One quick and easy search for "Israel condemned for assassination" gave 833,000 hits on Google.

Then we also seem to have this;

"BEIRUT, Lebanon - A senior Hezbollah official said Tuesday the guerrillas did not expect
Israel to react so strongly to its capture of two Israeli soldiers....
"The truth is — let me say this clearly — we didn't even expect (this) response ... that (Israel) would exploit this operation for this big war against us," said Komati.

He said Hezbollah had expected "the usual, limited response" from Israel.

In the past, he said, Israeli responses to Hezbollah actions included sending commandos into Lebanon, seizing Hezbollah officials and briefly targeting specific Hezbollah strongholds in southern Lebanon."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060725/ap_on_re_mi_ea/mideast_fighting_hezbollah

So, it's pretty clear from the mouth of a Hezbolloid that those tactics were useless as a preventative measure. What's left? Systematic and relentless destruction of the murdering scum is what.
Quote:




Quote:

They have no idea at all where the hostages are.




How do you know? Hotline to Mossad is it?




Do you? Don't you think they would have made a rescue mission if they knew? Do you think that the Mossad is omniscient? Oh wait, I know, it's all an Israeli plot to start WW345. They don't want them back at all, they're pawns in the Israeli plot to kill all Arabs. Puhleeze.
Quote:



Quote:

And increasing hatred toward Israel among Arabs predisposed to that is impossible.




Of course but there are plenty of Arabs who are not predisposed.



There is no shortage of Arab disgust with Hezbollah. And they seem to not be making too much of a fuss over the Israeli response. Except for the usual suspects and complicit assholes. Meanwhile, Hamas seems to have taken note of the situation to the North and suddenly lost a bit of stomach for the struggle;
"All groups in Gaza, including Hamas, would now accept a cease-fire deal with Israel which would include releasing Gilad Shalit, according to the Palestinian Agriculture Minister, who also heads the coordinating committee of Palestinian organizations there.

Ibrahim Al-Naja said the factions were ready to stop the Qassam rocket fire if Israel's ceased all military moves against the Palestinian factions in Gaza. They are also ready to release Shalit in exchange for guaranteeing the future release of Palestinian prisoners.

Hamas leaders did not confirm this report on Monday, but if it is true, then this is the first time that Hamas has indicated its acceptance of the Egyptian proposal to solve the crisis.

Egypt's proposal did not include an Israeli commitment to the immediate release of Palestinian prisoners, only guarantees for their future release."
http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/742283.html

We'll see.
Quote:




Quote:

I ask again, why isn't the duly elected government of Lebanon assisting in the hunt for Hezbollah and the hostages?




The Lebanese government has little or no power over Hezbollah. Even though many Lebanese are against Hezbollah's current actions they respect them for ending Israel's occupation in 2000 and also for their provision of social services. It is probabaly not going to make the situation better from a Lebanese point of view by starting a civil war. The Israelis are obviously fully aware of that.




You either govern or you don't. Lebanon is a tiny country and doesn't have mountain hideouts so they have no excuse. And I'll tell you what. Would they be worse off if they had eradicated these scum in the first place, like the UN demanded? I doubt it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_Security_Council_Resolution_1559


--------------------


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5899177 - 07/25/06 06:56 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Resolution 1559 in no way gives the green light for anyone to "eradicate" Hezbollah. It merely calls for Hezbollah to be disarmed, and the prefered intention of the Resolution was likely a diplomatic route to get Hezbollah to lay down their arms on par with the domestic pressure that eventually grew into the Cedar Springs Revolution in regard to Syrian presence in Lebanon. The Lebanese government doesn't even have the man power to violently disarm Hezbollah if it earnestly wanted to. Hezbollah itself has refused to disarm citing Israeli occupation of Sheeba Farms. Eradicating Hezbollah at this point is probably impossible. They have spent the last 6 years burrying rockets, digging strongholds and making cladestine hideouts with every consideration that Israel might one day go all-out on them (even if they didn't expect it when they kidnapped the two soldiers).

As for the Arab response - most Arabs are Sunnis, and Hezbollah is predominately a Shi'ite group. The current Israeli offensive will only worsen Arab and Muslim attitudes towards Israel in the long run. The Lebanese people - whose response is by and large more significant than other Arabs, are for the most part outraged at Israel over this. Much like any country after it is devastated by alien violence, the Lebanese people are quite united at the moment; not only against Israel, but also the United States for refusing to call for a cease-fire.

While Israel is dropping bombs on well known U.N. outposts, family minivans and anything that looks at a sky drone cockeyed, the U.S. state department is barking moonbats about a status-quo that wasn't even news on July 11. Apparently a routine incursion against Israeli troops by Hezbollah (as opposed to a Hamas suicide bombing that kills several civilians) conflated that somehow.

What is missing here is focus on Sheebaa Farms, which was seized by Israel from Syria in 1967. Nearly all agricultural land in this region was owned and used by Lebanese farmers from the village Sheebaa just north of the region, and hence its relation to Lebanon and ultimately Hezbollah, which does not acknowledge any post-67 land grabs by Israel. Sheebaa Farms has also long ago ceased to be a Syrian issue. In 1964 both Syria and Lebanon came to an agreement that the region was a part of Lebanon. Delineation of the region ultimately never took place when the 6-Day war eventually ensued. Internationally, the U.N. is neither content with the current situation of Sheebaa Farms, citing the borders drawn out by the 1973 Yom Kippur War. If there is ever going to be stability in the region, the dispute over Sheebaa Farms will have to be resolved peacefully one way or another.

If Israel wishes to embark on this icarian plummet into the sun, there will without a doubt be future problems and the very real probability that the current offensive will only beat down Hezbollah for a short period of time, not eradication which is nearly impossible. Israel has attempted to eradicate violent groups in the past (the Jenin incursion of 2002 for example) with no success - instead Hamas (who were mostly responsible for the string of suicide bombings in spring 2002) went on to become even more powerful as their political wing expanded.

It's in everyone's best interest (including Lebanon, obviously) that Hezbollah does disarm, however change in the Mideast in regard to militant groups and Arab governments has historically stemmed from diplomacy, not force. Finally, completely eradicating Hezbollah doesn't even appear to be the intention of Israel at the moment, as there is no intention on Israel's part re-occupy any region of Lebanon, which is what would be needed if Israel seriously wanted to take down Hezbollah as a whole by force. As it is, they are attempting to simply push Hezbollah offensive positions back far enough that their rockets are unable to penetrate the Northern Israeli border.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: Basilides]
    #5902246 - 07/26/06 03:47 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Basilides said:
Resolution 1559 in no way gives the green light for anyone to "eradicate" Hezbollah. It merely calls for Hezbollah to be disarmed, and the prefered intention of the Resolution was likely a diplomatic route to get Hezbollah to lay down their arms on par with the domestic pressure that eventually grew into the Cedar Springs Revolution in regard to Syrian presence in Lebanon. The Lebanese government doesn't even have the man power to violently disarm Hezbollah if it earnestly wanted to. Hezbollah itself has refused to disarm citing Israeli occupation of Sheeba Farms. Eradicating Hezbollah at this point is probably impossible. They have spent the last 6 years burrying rockets, digging strongholds and making cladestine hideouts with every consideration that Israel might one day go all-out on them (even if they didn't expect it when they kidnapped the two soldiers).




Do or do not, there is no try. The Lebanese government is admittedly unable to disarm Hezbollah, by themselves because of their ineffectual nature. Nonetheless, they should be assisting Israel now that push has come to shove, as should everybody else. And I disagree with you about their motivation for hiding munitions for years. It was to attack, not defend.
Hezbollah can cite all the whiny crap they want, they are an outlaw organization whose disarmament was demanded by even the feckless fuckheads at the UN. They have no business making policy for the Lebanese gov't of which they are only a minor part.
Quote:



As for the Arab response - most Arabs are Sunnis, and Hezbollah is predominately a Shi'ite group. The current Israeli offensive will only worsen Arab and Muslim attitudes towards Israel in the long run.




This is not possible. Nor should Israel give a fuck. The Sunni Arabs seem to not exactly be flocking to the side of the Hezbolloids anyway.
Quote:



The Lebanese people - whose response is by and large more significant than other Arabs, are for the most part outraged at Israel over this.




If they can't even govern their own country what makes you think their response is of any consequence whatsoever? They allowed these swine free rein over their southern border and didn't even ask for help. They're hostages too, by their own cowardly doing.
Quote:




Much like any country after it is devastated by alien violence, the Lebanese people are quite united at the moment; not only against Israel, but also the United States for refusing to call for a cease-fire.




There will be a cease fire (and I know you only mean for Israel) when the fuckers are dead or surrender. There was a cease fire. How did that work out? Who violated it? Alien violence? Yeah Germany was "devastated by alien violence." Well deserved, I might add.
Quote:



While Israel is dropping bombs on well known U.N. outposts,




Too bad. Shit happens. And Kofi Annan is an idiot and a shill if he thinks it was intentional. Oh wait, we've known that for some time.
Quote:




family minivans and anything that looks at a sky drone cockeyed,




When the enemy uses minivans and ambulances for troop carriers and fires rockets from houses and mosques, it is the enemy that makes those things targets.
Quote:



the U.S. state department is barking moonbats about a status-quo that wasn't even news on July 11. Apparently a routine incursion against Israeli troops by Hezbollah (as opposed to a Hamas suicide bombing that kills several civilians) conflated that somehow.




And here is the problem with you and your ilk. You think it is OK for there to be routine incursions. How about if I routinely come over to your house and punch you in the mouth? Is that OK? And this was certainly nonroutine. I hadn't heard about something like this for quite some time until the Hamassholes did it just a little while before. Coordinated? I don't know. I think Hamas isn't real happy either, right now. And both of those garbage heads have been firing rockets. So, tell me, why should Israel stop pursuing these fuckers and reoccupy all the territory they gave back? It doesn't seem to have done them any good to give it back. Except with Egypt.
Quote:



What is missing here is focus on Sheebaa Farms, which was seized by Israel from Syria in 1967.




Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. It was lost in a war. Tough shit, losers. And what does this have to do with Hezbollah making attacks from Lebanon? Maybe Syria needs to lose again. Only out in the open.
Quote:



Nearly all agricultural land in this region was owned and used by Lebanese farmers from the village Sheebaa just north of the region, and hence its relation to Lebanon and ultimately Hezbollah, which does not acknowledge any post-67 land grabs by Israel.




Hazbollah is not in a position to recognize anything, or not recognize anything. They can go fuck themselves entirely. Land grabs? You're a funny guy.
Quote:




Sheebaa Farms has also long ago ceased to be a Syrian issue.




Well then, that should be the end of the matter, shouldn't it? Especially since Hez is a Syrian/Iranian puppet
Quote:



In 1964 both Syria and Lebanon came to an agreement that the region was a part of Lebanon. Delineation of the region ultimately never took place when the 6-Day war eventually ensued. Internationally, the U.N. is neither content with the current situation of Sheebaa Farms, citing the borders drawn out by the 1973 Yom Kippur War. If there is ever going to be stability in the region, the dispute over Sheebaa Farms will have to be resolved peacefully one way or another.




Well, since neither GOVERNMENT of Syria or Lebanon or Israel was making a fucking big deal out of it, what makes you think that Hezbollah, a non-state band of criminals should have anything to say? Were they displaced farmers. You really are an apologist for genocidal maniacs if you buy this shit
Quote:



If Israel wishes to embark on this icarian plummet into the sun, there will without a doubt be future problems and the very real probability that the current offensive will only beat down Hezbollah for a short period of time, not eradication which is nearly impossible. Israel has attempted to eradicate violent groups in the past (the Jenin incursion of 2002 for example) with no success - instead Hamas (who were mostly responsible for the string of suicide bombings in spring 2002) went on to become even more powerful as their political wing expanded.




Hamas is in the toilet and on the verge of surrender.
Quote:



It's in everyone's best interest (including Lebanon, obviously) that Hezbollah does disarm, however change in the Mideast in regard to militant groups and Arab governments has historically stemmed from diplomacy, not force.




Complete and utter bullshit. All they have ever responded to is force.
Quote:



Finally, completely eradicating Hezbollah doesn't even appear to be the intention of Israel at the moment, as there is no intention on Israel's part re-occupy any region of Lebanon, which is what would be needed if Israel seriously wanted to take down Hezbollah as a whole by force. As it is, they are attempting to simply push Hezbollah offensive positions back far enough that their rockets are unable to penetrate the Northern Israeli border.




They hope to push Hezbollah far enough back that they can't make physical incursions to kidnap and murder Israelis and to make it in the interests of the Lebanese people, and any other belligerent neighbor, to stop trying to kill all Jews. The rockets have a bit too much range. But if they constantly blow up everything near where the rockets are sent from maybe the people who live there will help them stop the attacks.


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5902950 - 07/26/06 08:31 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Do or do not, there is no try. The Lebanese government is admittedly unable to disarm Hezbollah, by themselves because of their ineffectual nature. Nonetheless, they should be assisting Israel now that push has come to shove, as should everybody else. And I disagree with you about their motivation for hiding munitions for years. It was to attack, not defend.
Hezbollah can cite all the whiny crap they want, they are an outlaw organization whose disarmament was demanded by even the feckless fuckheads at the UN. They have no business making policy for the Lebanese gov't of which they are only a minor part.


The last thing the Lebanese government wants on its hands is anothering civil war, and that is exactly what would ensue if the Lebanese "assisted" Israel. It might even escalate considering how many Lebanese Shi'ites support Hezbollah for their charity work. No, for the sake of Lebanon, the Lebanese government should do absolutely nothing until a peacekeeping force arrives. That includes neither fighting Hezbollah or Israel.

This is not possible. Nor should Israel give a fuck. The Sunni Arabs seem to not exactly be flocking to the side of the Hezbolloids anyway.

La derr, it's a Shi'ite group. And popular blacklashes are possible in any conflict and everyone should be concerned.

If they can't even govern their own country what makes you think their response is of any consequence whatsoever? They allowed these swine free rein over their southern border and didn't even ask for help. They're hostages too, by their own cowardly doing.

There's a difference between the Lebanese people and the Lebanese government. The Lebanese people aren't obligated to do anything in regard to this conflict any more than Israeli citizens.

There will be a cease fire (and I know you only mean for Israel) when the fuckers are dead or surrender. There was a cease fire. How did that work out? Who violated it? Alien violence? Yeah Germany was "devastated by alien violence." Well deserved, I might add.

Do you think this is the first time that Israel has ever attempted to eliminate Hezbollah, or any militant group for that matter? There has never been an official cease-fire between Hezbollah and Israel, either. They have been fighting on and off since 2000. Nor are they on speaking terms.

Too bad. Shit happens. And Kofi Annan is an idiot and a shill if he thinks it was intentional. Oh wait, we've known that for some time.

Either it was intentional or the IDF is utterly incompetent, the U.N. outpost at hand has been there for years. It is not concealed. It is clearly marked, and even stationed on a hill with a locality fence. Either way, the Israeli government is currently investigating the attack to determine whether any IDF subordination was at play.

When the enemy uses minivans and ambulances for troop carriers and fires rockets from houses and mosques, it is the enemy that makes those things targets.

Got any evidence of this? I've never heard of Hezbollah using ambulances or mosques for that matter. The IDF itself has said that Hezbollah mostly fires rockets from pick up trucks in order to move out quickly.

And here is the problem with you and your ilk. You think it is OK for there to be routine incursions. How about if I routinely come over to your house and punch you in the mouth? Is that OK? And this was certainly nonroutine. I hadn't heard about something like this for quite some time until the Hamassholes did it just a little while before. Coordinated? I don't know. I think Hamas isn't real happy either, right now. And both of those garbage heads have been firing rockets. So, tell me, why should Israel stop pursuing these fuckers and reoccupy all the territory they gave back? It doesn't seem to have done them any good to give it back. Except with Egypt.

Israel's 2000 pull out wasn't a gesture. They were slogged for years, and at the time tensions between Palestinians and Israel were mounting at record intensity. Hezbollah didn't entirely start the current explosion of violence either. The soldier snatchings by Hezbollah early this month were in response to an Israeli-backed assassin cell which was unearthed by the Lebanese in June. Hezbollah has a long history of tit for tat, preferring to avoid all out confrontations. They simply do not like Israelis being in Lebanon under any circumstance. They have unmanned drones that have no use whatsoever other than psychological warfare for whenever the Israeli air force violates Lebanese air space.

Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. It was lost in a war. Tough shit, losers. And what does this have to do with Hezbollah making attacks from Lebanon? Maybe Syria needs to lose again. Only out in the open.

As I've said, the Sheebaa Farms dispute HAS to be resolved somehow. Undelineated territory (that is occupied at that) is a recipe for regional disaster. I'm surprised you can't see that. The Israeli presence in Sheebaa Farms doesn't even act as a buffer, so what do they have to gain by remaining there?

Well then, that should be the end of the matter, shouldn't it? Especially since Hez is a Syrian/Iranian puppet

Syria simply does not want Sheebaa Farms. They neither represent the regional sentiment of Sheeba/Sheeba Farms, and their ties with Hezbollah are more political in respect to their interests in Lebanon. Hezbollah, after all, opposed the Ceder Revolution.

Well, since neither GOVERNMENT of Syria or Lebanon or Israel was making a fucking big deal out of it, what makes you think that Hezbollah, a non-state band of criminals should have anything to say? Were they displaced farmers. You really are an apologist for genocidal maniacs if you buy this shit

See second next above. If there is ever going to be long term peace, the entire region has to be completely lineated one way or another.

Complete and utter bullshit. All they have ever responded to is force.

Lets see...peace with Egypt: diplomacy. Peace with Jordan: diplomacy.

They hope to push Hezbollah far enough back that they can't make physical incursions to kidnap and murder Israelis and to make it in the interests of the Lebanese people, and any other belligerent neighbor, to stop trying to kill all Jews. The rockets have a bit too much range. But if they constantly blow up everything near where the rockets are sent from maybe the people who live there will help them stop the attacks.

Very few have any problems with Israel pushing Hezbollah back away from the Israeli border for the protection of Israelis. What has outraged so many is not a prospective ground entry into southern Lebanon, but the quite-liberal air raiding of Lebanon and Beirut that has killed several hundred innocent people.

Hamas is dead in the toilet

Good. I'm actually quite pleased with the Palestinians for choosing not to exploit the current situation in Lebanon to launch attacks on Israel. It's also a good sign that that the Palestinian police deliberately disobeyed Hamas' orders to attack Israeli troops in Gaza.

See, the biggest obstacle to peace in the region is popular sentiment, both Israeli and Arab. Neither populations are interested in peace. Some 86% of Israelis are in favor of disproportionate air raids, and the Palestinians, well, they voted Hamas into power.

By and large, the average Israeli and the average Palestinian is a benighted, hate filled moron.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: Basilides]
    #5904850 - 07/27/06 10:20 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Basilides said:
Do or do not, there is no try. The Lebanese government is admittedly unable to disarm Hezbollah, by themselves because of their ineffectual nature. Nonetheless, they should be assisting Israel now that push has come to shove, as should everybody else. And I disagree with you about their motivation for hiding munitions for years. It was to attack, not defend.
Hezbollah can cite all the whiny crap they want, they are an outlaw organization whose disarmament was demanded by even the feckless fuckheads at the UN. They have no business making policy for the Lebanese gov't of which they are only a minor part.


The last thing the Lebanese government wants on its hands is anothering civil war, and that is exactly what would ensue if the Lebanese "assisted" Israel. It might even escalate considering how many Lebanese Shi'ites support Hezbollah for their charity work. No, for the sake of Lebanon, the Lebanese government should do absolutely nothing until a peacekeeping force arrives. That includes neither fighting Hezbollah or Israel.




The Lebanese government does not have the option to stand aside. They failed to live up to their agreement to disarm Hez and now they are going to be suffer consequences because Israel will not and cannot tolerate the acts of some of the Lebanese citizens who refuse to cease their belligerent behaviour. They have to side with Israel or they are not a government, they are a joke.
As to the peacekeeping force, there is supposed to be one there already. You know, the UNIFIL that you mention further on down that was there to oversee the disarmament of Hezbollah. Apparently no country is willing to take on the task anyway. So, you might as well wait for Godot, the second coming of Jesus and set a place for Elijah. They aint coming. There is no cavalry over the hill.
Quote:



This is not possible. Nor should Israel give a fuck. The Sunni Arabs seem to not exactly be flocking to the side of the Hezbolloids anyway.

La derr, it's a Shi'ite group. And popular blacklashes are possible in any conflict and everyone should be concerned.




No no no. This latest in from Al Q;
"CAIRO, Egypt (AP) - Al-Qaida's No. 2 leader issued a worldwide call in a new videotape released Thursday for Muslims to rise up in a holy war against Israel and join the fighting in Lebanon and Gaza until Islam reigns from "Spain to Iraq."
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20060727/D8J4AUMO0.html
It has nothing to do with Shia vs Sunni. It is criminals versus the, allegedly, legitimate governments. And if they can't get a hold of their people they are complicit. As is the UN for standing idly by when they were supposed to be helping.
Quote:



If they can't even govern their own country what makes you think their response is of any consequence whatsoever? They allowed these swine free rein over their southern border and didn't even ask for help. They're hostages too, by their own cowardly doing.

There's a difference between the Lebanese people and the Lebanese government. The Lebanese people aren't obligated to do anything in regard to this conflict any more than Israeli citizens.




I'm sorry that they are getting fucked. Most of them are probably decent. But, if you allow a murderer safe haven in your house, stand by while he amasses weapons, do nothing when he attacks and then let him back in your house with the police hot on his tail, all after you promised to do your best to stop him, you are going to have a problem. A big one.
Israeli citizens obligations? Their obligations are to destroy the murdering thugs who threaten the rule of law all over the world by taking care of their small part of it. They seem to be stepping up to the plate. Perhaps because they realize, unlike their Muslim neighbors, that it is LAW which keeps us all safe, and cowardice only begets disaster. If they would ever show a willingness to expel the vipers from their midst they would find many, many people willing to help them. Help them, not do it for them. But they never do. Cowards.
Quote:



There will be a cease fire (and I know you only mean for Israel) when the fuckers are dead or surrender. There was a cease fire. How did that work out? Who violated it? Alien violence? Yeah Germany was "devastated by alien violence." Well deserved, I might add.

Do you think this is the first time that Israel has ever attempted to eliminate Hezbollah, or any militant group for that matter? There has never been an official cease-fire between Hezbollah and Israel, either. They have been fighting on and off since 2000. Nor are they on speaking terms.




I am not aware of any previous activity, except for an assassination attempt on Nasrullah gone awry, wherein Israel attempted to eliminate Hezbollah. And an assassiination isn't going to do it. Although it would have been a good start.
Speaking terms? No, they are on shooting terms. May the best man win. Now get out of the way and let them at him.
Quote:



Too bad. Shit happens. And Kofi Annan is an idiot and a shill if he thinks it was intentional. Oh wait, we've known that for some time.

Either it was intentional or the IDF is utterly incompetent, the U.N. outpost at hand has been there for years. It is not concealed. It is clearly marked, and even stationed on a hill with a locality fence. Either way, the Israeli government is currently investigating the attack to determine whether any IDF subordination was at play.




See this;
"Read the UNIFIL press releases for yourself to learn that Hezbollah has not just shot at and seriously wounded UNIFIL observers - without any protest from Kofi Annan or The Age. You’ll also learn that UNIFIL has repeatedly reported Israeli shelling and bombing near UNIFIL outposts because Hezbollah fighters were shooting from right beside them ."
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andre...ost_was_bombed/

This was not a UN post far removed from the fighting. This was a bunch of fucking idiots used as human shields for Hez attacks. Key words here are "used" and "idiots". Kofi the fucking cunt should be prosecuted for allowing them to be used in that way. Or did he just want martyrs so he could condemn Israel. Given the past behaviour of the two groups, I find this far more likely than Israel deliberately bombing a clearly marked and removed U(seless)N(itwit) outpost.
Quote:



When the enemy uses minivans and ambulances for troop carriers and fires rockets from houses and mosques, it is the enemy that makes those things targets.

Got any evidence of this? I've never heard of Hezbollah using ambulances or mosques for that matter. The IDF itself has said that Hezbollah mostly fires rockets from pick up trucks in order to move out quickly.




Got a link for that? I got a link or two, one from a useless nitwit;

"BEIRUT, Lebanon - The U.N. humanitarian chief accused Hezbollah on Monday of "cowardly blending" in among Lebanese civilians and causing the deaths of hundreds during two weeks of cross-border violence with
Israel.....
"Consistently, from the Hezbollah heartland, my message was that Hezbollah must stop this cowardly blending ... among women and children," he said. "I heard they were proud because they lost very few fighters and that it was the civilians bearing the brunt of this. I don't think anyone should be proud of having many more children and women dead than armed men."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060724/ap_on_re_mi_ea/mideast_fighting_aid
Quote:


And here is the problem with you and your ilk. You think it is OK for there to be routine incursions. How about if I routinely come over to your house and punch you in the mouth? Is that OK? And this was certainly nonroutine. I hadn't heard about something like this for quite some time until the Hamassholes did it just a little while before. Coordinated? I don't know. I think Hamas isn't real happy either, right now. And both of those garbage heads have been firing rockets. So, tell me, why should Israel stop pursuing these fuckers and reoccupy all the territory they gave back? It doesn't seem to have done them any good to give it back. Except with Egypt.

Israel's 2000 pull out wasn't a gesture. They were slogged for years, and at the time tensions between Palestinians and Israel were mounting at record intensity. Hezbollah didn't entirely start the current explosion of violence either. The soldier snatchings by Hezbollah early this month were in response to an Israeli-backed assassin cell which was unearthed by the Lebanese in June. Hezbollah has a long history of tit for tat, preferring to avoid all out confrontations. They simply do not like Israelis being in Lebanon under any circumstance. They have unmanned drones that have no use whatsoever other than psychological warfare for whenever the Israeli air force violates Lebanese air space.




No, Israel's pull out was not a gesture at all. A gesture is a fake thing. They actually did pull out.
Now, I want the link to the assassin cell. As to the drones and IAF, the sentence is incomprehensible and I have no idea what you mean by psych warfare here.
Quote:



Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. It was lost in a war. Tough shit, losers. And what does this have to do with Hezbollah making attacks from Lebanon? Maybe Syria needs to lose again. Only out in the open.

As I've said, the Sheebaa Farms dispute HAS to be resolved somehow. Undelineated territory (that is occupied at that) is a recipe for regional disaster. I'm surprised you can't see that. The Israeli presence in Sheebaa Farms doesn't even act as a buffer, so what do they have to gain by remaining there?




Once again, the governments seem to be dealing with it however they deal with it. Hezbollah has no say. They are just criminals, NOT GOVERNMENTS. You can't always get what you want. Tough shit, they need to grow up and quit whining when they don't get all the toys they want. I can't believe you can't see that. It's just an excuse to kill Jews anyway.
Quote:



Well then, that should be the end of the matter, shouldn't it? Especially since Hez is a Syrian/Iranian puppet

Syria simply does not want Sheebaa Farms. They neither represent the regional sentiment of Sheeba/Sheeba Farms, and their ties with Hezbollah are more political in respect to their interests in Lebanon. Hezbollah, after all, opposed the Ceder Revolution.

Well, since neither GOVERNMENT of Syria or Lebanon or Israel was making a fucking big deal out of it, what makes you think that Hezbollah, a non-state band of criminals should have anything to say? Were they displaced farmers. You really are an apologist for genocidal maniacs if you buy this shit

See second next above. If there is ever going to be long term peace, the entire region has to be completely lineated one way or another.




Yes, but not by murdering criminals who have not the least notion of compromise, only death. They are merely death merchants. How come no one ever hears of this Hezbollah rallying cry, "Sheeba Farms or Death"? Because it isn't one. What they want is all of Israel with no Jews. If you think they would stop their bullshit if they were given the Sheeba Farms, I gotta bridge to sell you.
Quote:



Complete and utter bullshit. All they have ever responded to is force.

Lets see...peace with Egypt: diplomacy. Peace with Jordan: diplomacy.




Dream on. They got peace because the enemy was defeated. They kicked their asses and they weren't insane loons. Syria got it's ass kicked, too, but they're beholden to their Iranian masters. They also don't have the Golan Heights back either. Don't forget Israel traded Egyptian land for peace. Israel traded Jordanian land for peace. And how did they get this land? They won it when they were attacked by the swine and kicked their asses. Diplomacy my dick. Superior firepower is what got that peace.
Quote:



They hope to push Hezbollah far enough back that they can't make physical incursions to kidnap and murder Israelis and to make it in the interests of the Lebanese people, and any other belligerent neighbor, to stop trying to kill all Jews. The rockets have a bit too much range. But if they constantly blow up everything near where the rockets are sent from maybe the people who live there will help them stop the attacks.

Very few have any problems with Israel pushing Hezbollah back away from the Israeli border for the protection of Israelis. What has outraged so many is not a prospective ground entry into southern Lebanon, but the quite-liberal air raiding of Lebanon and Beirut that has killed several hundred innocent people.




This is not at all clear as every Lebanese casualty is listed as a civilian. I have yet to see a Hez uniform. Some unfortunate inocents are dead. How many? Who knows.
Quote:



Hamas is dead in the toilet

Good. I'm actually quite pleased with the Palestinians for choosing not to exploit the current situation in Lebanon to launch attacks on Israel. It's also a good sign that that the Palestinian police deliberately disobeyed Hamas' orders to attack Israeli troops in Gaza.

See, the biggest obstacle to peace in the region is popular sentiment, both Israeli and Arab. Neither populations are interested in peace. Some 86% of Israelis are in favor of disproportionate air raids, and the Palestinians, well, they voted Hamas into power.




I have never seen Israel come out with a statement that they wished to eradicate all Arabs and/or Muslims. They mostly just want to be left alone. To draw an equivalency between the two groups is utterly absurd. Disproportionate?????? Fuck that. You use overwhelming power to defeat the enemy. This is not a handicap bowling league. That is just such a stupid concept. You attack me, you get everything I got until you are dead or submit completely.
Quote:



By and large, the average Israeli and the average Palestinian is a benighted, hate filled moron.




I would put up the education of the average Israel against yours. I would put up the education of the average Muslim against a well trained golden retriever. And even the dog won't shit in it's own yard.


--------------------


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OfflineSirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,460
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Last seen: 1 hour, 4 minutes
Re: From the Lebanese people to the so called "civilized" west : "THANK YOU" [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5904912 - 07/27/06 10:42 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

zappaisgod stated : Superior firepower is what got that peace



Amen.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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