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ComfortablyStond
Mr. Lizard
Registered: 03/15/06
Posts: 239
Loc: Psychedelphia, USA
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
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Weak Syringes?
#5873883 - 07/18/06 03:07 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I ordered a few syringes from one of the vendors, doesn't matter which one. Problem is, I can't see any spores, looks more like plain distilled water. I even put a couple drops on a slide and then put it under a microscope at 1400x magnification, and still, I see nothing. All the other syringes I've ordered from various places (doesn't matter who they were either) and they're usually very thick with spores, or at least some are visible. I understand they're microscopic, and that seeing them with the naked eye means they're in clumps. Is that right? Just how microscopic are the lil critters, and if I can't see any under a microscope, does it necessarily mean the syringes I got are bunk? I'm kinda worried, cuz I've NEVER had so many syringes so CRYSTAL clear. Any input?
-------------------- "It's not a war on drugs. It's a war on personal freedom. Keep that in mind at all times..." Bill Hicks
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entelligence
Stranger
Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 140
Loc: The Great Outdoors
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
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Sometimes, they will clump up and hide at the ass end of the syringe. I know, for example sporeworks, has a label at the ass end too labeling the species and whatnot....i've seen them clump up and get hidden under there. Shake vigorously and see if you can muster up anything....
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toole
white-thumb (Onewhackmycophiliac)
Registered: 05/01/06
Posts: 500
Loc: spore #1203 - bas 2.34 - ...
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Yeah shake them a lot.
However, vendors make mistakes too, if you feel a need to, you can always get replacments through the vendor, they are all very compliant and reasonable with any matter.
Good job not listing what vendor(no sarcasm), some people are retarded lol
Good Luck on the next syringe
-------------------- -the adventures of suse and prescott.9- ..and the neverending triscut of doom !
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fastfred
Old Hand
Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: Weak Syringes? [Re: toole]
#5876268 - 07/19/06 01:19 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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> I even put a couple drops on a slide and then put it under a microscope at 1400x magnification
It's probably not a quality microscope if it claims 1400X. I would check if you can see anything at all with that scope. 1400X is not a reasonable magnification for a light microscope. 1000X is about the best that even a $900 scope can do, 1200X is the practical limit due to the laws of physics.
400X is optimal for looking for spores, and 100X also works great.
> I understand they're microscopic
Yep. They're pretty tiny at 30X. If you had really, really good eyes you might just be able to make out a single spore as a tiny spec if it was properly lit on a good background. 20/20 vision isn't good enough though.
> does it necessarily mean the syringes I got are bunk?
Obviously if there are no spores in it then it's bunk. Personally I would immediately send back a syringe if I couldn't see any spores in it with my naked eye. If you can't see any specks and it isn't at least a little darker than water, then send it back! Don't even waste your time trying to use it. Tell them you want a dark one and if they give you any shit over it be sure to post your report here on the shroomery so that others can avoid them.
-FF
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ComfortablyStond
Mr. Lizard
Registered: 03/15/06
Posts: 239
Loc: Psychedelphia, USA
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
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Re: Weak Syringes? [Re: fastfred]
#5876292 - 07/19/06 01:32 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I will admit I know NOTHING about microscopes. Just figured if I was gonna get into this hobby, I should prolly have one at least for cover. Got a "killer" deal on eBay...heh. Anyway, thanks for the advice, Fred. I just finished emailing the vendor and will ship them back tomorrow. They seem like reasonable people, and as toole said, "vendors make mistakes too."
I'll keep ya posted on the outcome.
-------------------- "It's not a war on drugs. It's a war on personal freedom. Keep that in mind at all times..." Bill Hicks
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Capless
Student
Registered: 06/25/06
Posts: 365
Last seen: 15 years, 10 days
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Re: Weak Syringes? [Re: fastfred]
#5876352 - 07/19/06 02:15 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
fastfred said:... Obviously if there are no spores in it then it's bunk. Personally I would immediately send back a syringe if I couldn't see any spores in it with my naked eye. If you can't see any specks and it isn't at least a little darker than water, then send it back! Don't even waste your time trying to use it. Tell them you want a dark one and if they give you any shit over it be sure to post your report here on the Shroomery so that others can avoid them...
I would like to think all Shroomery vendors are up to par in excellence, it would be a reassuring thought to fall back on. A great note to bring up is that all the sponsors I've dealt with have been great thus far. They deserve every bit of business they get here. Being that the sponsors are generous with forum deals and other timely freebies, I would think you will be hard pressed to find a sponsor that will screw you for a $14-20 syringe(or a few) and not bother to replace them.
-------------------- http://www.toolband.com/ "... This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality. Embrace this moment. Remember, We are eternal. all this pain is an illusion...."
Edited by Capless (07/19/06 02:17 AM)
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fastfred
Old Hand
Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Some vendors try to get away with making really weak syringes. It's a ripoff IMHO. I wouldn't insist on super dark syringes, but you should at least be able to see *something*, otherwise you're not going to get the best results.
In my spore microscopy hobby I like to have a bunch of spores in my field of view and not have to search around for them.
-FF
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Capless
Student
Registered: 06/25/06
Posts: 365
Last seen: 15 years, 10 days
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Re: Weak Syringes? [Re: fastfred]
#5876384 - 07/19/06 02:34 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
fastfred said: Some vendors try to get away with making really weak syringes. It's a ripoff IMHO. I wouldn't insist on super dark syringes, but you should at least be able to see *something*, otherwise you're not going to get the best results.
In my spore microscopy hobby I like to have a bunch of spores in my field of view and not have to search around for them.
-FF
On that note I cannot say the syringes I received were very dark at all, but they worked. The syringes successfully transplanted the spores to the correct place, which is all I really cared about in the first place.
Though I consistantly see people giving props to Ralphster for dark syringes that arrive in a timely manner. Which is often followed by a quick germination period and fast mycelia collonization too. All of which points to dense syringes are worthful if you are shooting them up MS style still. Through a bit of reading though there are plenty of people against the heavily-dense spore solutions. Many arguements against it are the much higher chances of substrain veriation and and the 'increased chance of contamination.'
I personally found my love in LC's lately, and that's what I would suggest to a lot of people, insted of MS injection. LC's are faster, they multiply the work of one 12cc syringe into around 1000cc's of injectable mycelia which is hungry and ready to colonize, and they provide good practice for the newbie. The process is very easy too, almost idiot-proof.
Now I am able take a few the extra syringes of a few of the same strains and trade them off for others in the market place... LC's are definately the way to go.
-------------------- http://www.toolband.com/ "... This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality. Embrace this moment. Remember, We are eternal. all this pain is an illusion...."
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ComfortablyStond
Mr. Lizard
Registered: 03/15/06
Posts: 239
Loc: Psychedelphia, USA
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
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Re: Weak Syringes? [Re: Capless]
#5878170 - 07/19/06 03:10 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I received a reply to my email this morning. It stated that they are 100% confident the syringes are viable, and advised me to use them, and then, if they don't produce results, they would compensate me. I'm a lil discouraged here, because this means in order to get compensation, I would have to admit breaking the law. I hate to say it, but after this ordeal is all sorted out, I think I'm gonna have to go back to my old suppliers. Fortunately, I'm not completely assed out, cuz I placed a similar order with a friend in TX at the same time last week, and I know his shit is good. See what ya get for trying new things...heh. I guess it just goes to show ya, if it ain't broke, don't fix it!
-------------------- "It's not a war on drugs. It's a war on personal freedom. Keep that in mind at all times..." Bill Hicks
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure
Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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A good syringe will look as yours does. Dark syringes mean more spores in large clumps, which means not only more mycelial hyphae to have to combine later, but also more chances for contaminant spores to be in the mix. Good syringes from reputable vendors will appear clear. If you get a dark syringe, it was not made by an experienced vendor. If yours came from one of the vendors here, use it. They know what they're doing, bad advice above from someone with no experience in the matter notwithstanding. You don't want a superdark syringe. That's why none of the reputable, experienced vendors ship them. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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EquilibriuM
dream stalker
Registered: 07/17/05
Posts: 2,323
Last seen: 16 years, 9 months
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Most of the clear syringes I received worked great. Don't complain until you have tried it.
-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
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Yamidude
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/06
Posts: 957
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
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same here, all the syringes i have received were clear and they all worked great.
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fastfred
Old Hand
Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: Weak Syringes? [Re: Yamidude]
#5878670 - 07/19/06 06:23 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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> Good syringes from reputable vendors will appear clear. > If you get a dark syringe, it was not made by an experienced vendor.
I've heard that Ralphster's and THE put out pretty dark syringes. Ralphster's is probably the most reputable vendor here, and THE is probably the most experienced.
> You don't want a superdark syringe. > That's why none of the reputable, experienced vendors ship them.
Maybe you should tell that to some of the reputable and experienced vendors that ship dark syringes.
> more chances for contaminant spores to be in the mix.
Contaminated syringes are a vendor problem. I doubt they would do something that would increase their return rate.
There are plenty of reasons to want a darker syringe. For one, you're paying for spores and darker syringes have more spores. For another, as I mentioned above, when doing spore microscopy I actually want to see spores. I don't want to have to search around for them. And I have a mechanical stage, I pity the person who doesn't and gets a weak ass syringe.
I also consider myself to be into rather advanced spore microscopy. I often like to run a spectrophotometer scan on my spores. If I get a weak ass syringe then my absorbence will be too low to get a good reading. Then not only do I have to run a slow scan, which takes an extra 5 minutes, but my scan is also less accurate.
If for some strange reason I wanted a weaker syringe I could easily dilute it. Concentrating one would be much more difficult and result in less volume to work with.
Adding light absorbing spores to water makes it darker, that's a simple fact of physics. Since your paying for spores it's not unreasonable to expect that vendors actually add enough spores to the solution to produce at least a slight, but still perceptible, darkening of the water. That's why I would send back a syringe that was as perfectly clear as plain water.
You've read the result of getting clear syringes in ComfortablyStond's post. His spore microscopy project was a complete failure. He examined the solution under a microscope and saw nothing! In my mind that is entirely unacceptable. When someone's first attempt at spore microscopy fails so dismally it may well turn them off of the hobby altogether.
I wonder which vendor it was. I would hate to shell out good money and wait a week or two to look at some new spores just to find out that your syringe is bunk!
For the vendor to suggest that he go to extraordinary lengths to practice our hobby is totally wrong. He ordered the spores to practice spore microscopy, and when he got the spores he examined them under a microscope and saw nothing. That's a "bunk syringe" period. End of story. A replacement should already be on the way.
For you to suggest otherwise is an affront to all the spore microscopy practitioners out there why expect good reliable products from their vendors.
-FF
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fastfred
Old Hand
Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: Weak Syringes? [Re: fastfred]
#5879183 - 07/19/06 09:04 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Apparently I "have received an official warning" from Roadkill for the above post.
Apparently I'm guilty of "Flaming/Trolling, Posting inflammatory comments, baiting or disrespecting other members."
I've been told to "take this warning seriously" and that "We keep a log of all infractions and repeat offenders may be banned from a forum or the entire board, temporarily or permanently."
I'm glad to see that this is still an open forum fostering free debate. It also makes me feel good that shroomery users are protected by having an open forum like this where vendors and their products can be talked about, debated, and even criticized without fear of reprisal.
I've told RK what I think of his censorship, so if I get banned shortly it's been nice knowing you.
Take care.
-FF
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EquilibriuM
dream stalker
Registered: 07/17/05
Posts: 2,323
Last seen: 16 years, 9 months
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Re: Weak Syringes? [Re: fastfred]
#5879506 - 07/19/06 10:26 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Just FYI, the syringes I have received from Ralph were clear.
-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
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Yamidude
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/06
Posts: 957
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
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no one said this is a democracy. The last board i was staff on was ran like a dictatorship. It ran well. It's the 3rd largest board of it's type in the country actually. Just an fyi. not trying to be a prick.
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liamtheloser
Advanced Idiot
Registered: 06/07/06
Posts: 1,453
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Re: Weak Syringes? [Re: Yamidude]
#5879563 - 07/19/06 10:43 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Oh yeah, and ralph AND the hawks eye will only darken your syringes up if you specifically request it... it's stated on both of their sites.
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Capless
Student
Registered: 06/25/06
Posts: 365
Last seen: 15 years, 10 days
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You know a good bit about mycology. There isn't any reason to get banned over a small issue such as that. Just reword how you say stuff to come off less harsh, but get the point across all the same.
-------------------- http://www.toolband.com/ "... This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality. Embrace this moment. Remember, We are eternal. all this pain is an illusion...."
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