Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2  [ show all ]
Offlinecapliberty
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/23/06
Posts: 1,949
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: Is gambling a sin [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5883180 - 07/20/06 11:12 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

what I WOULD feel bad about is poker, because yes you are cheating people out of their money by kind of being a bully..... you ought to play blackjack or roulette instead i say.

Yeah being a bully backfires in poker, people pick up on the fact that your bluffing alot and this usually an easy way to get drained quickly, because eventually someone will be holding the nuts, to me its situational to many different variables, whether to bluff, or muck it, or chase, how strong your hand is, how many outs do you have, how they played their had before the flop, after the flop, how they played before that hand, are they a 'rock' or are they loose player,

also casino play is alot more fair than internet play IMO, another factor in poker is reading expressions and body language which you don't get on the internet, also I think internet hands aren't truly as random as hands being dealt from an actual dealer, computer card generation is a bigger difference than one realizes, also how can online casinos be giving out free bonuses if there isn't some type of catch, so many monsters get shot down with even stronger monster hands, theres to much coincidence IMO to call this truly random, and this is the fishy part of how online casinos conduct themselves, you can have the most beautiful hands and get consistently beaten, and seems to happen often in these environments, I just don't trust it,

one good thing about internet play is you figure out alot different scenarios quickly, and understand the math behind the game itself, but don't expect to rake in on these online casinos too quickly,

the trick to playing online isn't even really playing the actual game, the real smart online players go after the bonuses offered, say they offer a %20 monthly bonus on your deposit, so if you deposit 500 in your account you get 100 free, but the catch is that you have to clear a certain amount of rakes to obtain this 100, which is not hard, plus its less pressure to try to come up which I think makes you game better, when you know after a certain amount of rakes you'll get some cash, then once you get your bonus then you can withdraw the cash

but probably 95% of all online players don't understand this tactic, they don't deposit enough to get a worthwhile bonus and they don't understand the logic behind playing bonuses, if you sign up for 5 sites that offer monthly bonuses, thats extra 500 a month purely off bonuses and minimal risk, this to me is the only feasible non-risky way to make a profit with an online site, but it takes a little cash to make a little cash,

another way is tournaments, these might be a safer platform, especially under fraud and under loosing bankrolls, but its still somewhat tricky to play

as far as black jack and roulette or any other house game, more chances than not, unless you have some super ability to count cards, or some crazy philosophy in working the slots, your guaranteed to lose out because the house is stacked against you, you have a less than 50% probability in winning, meaning you have no chance in the long run,

but still addicts are still so drawn to the bells and whistles that they'll do it anyways even when they know better, which is just mind boggling to me, unless flushing your cash is fun which some people think it is, as soon as they get some luck, all rational goes out the window and they start playing loose, then they lose what they came up on, so then they want to get it back, but they lose again, so now their in the hole, now they play some more to get out of the hole, but fall deeper,

the trick is to always play games that aren't stacked against you and to play even keel, low and highs, the only fair game I know is poker, but its not an easy game to master because everyone wants to master it as well, but it can be done,


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblerod
Ψ
 User Gallery

Registered: 06/29/05
Posts: 3,727
Re: Is gambling a sin [Re: capliberty]
    #5883209 - 07/20/06 11:23 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I dont think gambling is a sin, maybe what you use the winings too buy,
might be,  :cool:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinecapliberty
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/23/06
Posts: 1,949
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: Is gambling a sin [Re: rod]
    #5883283 - 07/20/06 11:57 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I dont think gambling is a sin, maybe what you use the winings too buy,
might be,


Thats easy enough to say, until someone close to you looses the shirt off their back, by a casino who extorted all his cash and could careless about his/her lively hood, anyones elses lively hood thats directly related to this person

before you start spoutin off on some random shit,try reading my post and educate yourself, for you might learn soemthing, like avoiding the pitfalls that exists out their from bad investing and bad advice


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemichael_lifshitz
Student
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 436
Loc: here
Last seen: 16 years, 24 days
Re: Is gambling a sin [Re: rod]
    #5883295 - 07/21/06 12:02 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I would say that if gambling is a sin, then we are sinning a lot. Most of what you do in life is a gamble. Think about it.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblerod
Ψ
 User Gallery

Registered: 06/29/05
Posts: 3,727
Re: Is gambling a sin [Re: capliberty]
    #5883299 - 07/21/06 12:04 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

but to me sin means God disaproves,
the Churches gamble, but it goes back, to the churches.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinecapliberty
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/23/06
Posts: 1,949
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: Is gambling a sin [Re: rod]
    #5883306 - 07/21/06 12:06 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I shoulda said is gambling bad, instead of implying some religous context into this with the word 'sin'


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinecapliberty
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/23/06
Posts: 1,949
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: Is gambling a sin [Re: capliberty]
    #5883326 - 07/21/06 12:14 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:


I would say that if gambling is a sin, then we are sinning a lot. Most of what you do in life is a gamble. Think about it.




true enough, but I'm talking about playing games of chance as a form of entainment with funds or assets,


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblerod
Ψ
 User Gallery

Registered: 06/29/05
Posts: 3,727
Re: Is gambling a sin [Re: capliberty]
    #5883348 - 07/21/06 12:22 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

ok, yes gambling is bad, you might as
burn your money.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemichael_lifshitz
Student
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 436
Loc: here
Last seen: 16 years, 24 days
Re: Is gambling a sin [Re: rod]
    #5883457 - 07/21/06 01:31 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I would say that most of what we do in our lives is playing games of chance as a form of entertainment with funds or assets.

Having said that, what I am trying to get it, is that gambling is certainly not inherently evil, at least the way I see things.

Gambling definitely has the potential to be a rewarding, fun, entertaining, interesting, mindful and profitable activity, and I simply don't see why it would be viewed negatively. Just because people go about it irresponsibly is no reason to denounce the fundamental concepts of the game.

Poker for instance, is simply an enjoyable, complex, wonderful and intriguing game, and I am not really biased, as I rarely play, but do understand the game and have an understanding of how it is played by more skilled players, I just don't have the experience to be good myself, and play very rarely.

Taking money from people is only an issue when you have not realised that money is not yours or theirs in the first place. Money simply is, you do not posess it. And there is no problem in trading it. I see no difference between trading money in a game and trading pride in a game. You are trading assets, and that is fine, it is all part of the game.

If one can learn to enjoy and accept the loss of the game, and the win of the game, then it can be a great experience.

As far as using gambling to make money, I really do not see why not, as long as you are intelligent and do it properly. But this is true for everything.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinecapliberty
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/23/06
Posts: 1,949
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: Is gambling a sin [Re: michael_lifshitz]
    #5883502 - 07/21/06 01:54 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Taking money from people is only an issue when you have not realised that money is not yours or theirs in the first place. Money simply is, you do not posess it. And there is no problem in trading it. I see no difference between trading money in a game and trading pride in a game. You are trading assets, and that is fine, it is all part of the game.

your getting really ambivolent with your philosphy here, you can go as far saying what is anything,u can reason as everything as being nothing, which can be dangerous because we can virtually reason out or talk ourselves into any course of action, which I think a lot people do, such as excuses to kill innocent people, or in case cough up there whole life savings, and what you going say Oh well I never possessed that money in the first place, lets stick to the this world instead of getting too abstract to the point where there is no point, at least that pertains to this realm


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemichael_lifshitz
Student
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 436
Loc: here
Last seen: 16 years, 24 days
Re: Is gambling a sin [Re: capliberty]
    #5883526 - 07/21/06 02:10 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Ok, I do see what you are saying, and somewhat agree with you, we should be talking within a system. Though I do think ultimately truth lies outside of that system, that is somewhat irrelevant.

But even so, I believe that when I put for instance 10 dollars on a game of poker, I make sure I am not attached to that 10 dollars first, and accept it as the game's money, not mine or the other person's. This seems like a good way of doing it. That way either way I can enjoy the game. Or if I am doing it for the money, then I do that, and accept that I might lose, like the stock markets, or starting a new business.

As long as everyone is mindful and happy there is no inherent problem with gambling, the way I see it.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinecapliberty
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/23/06
Posts: 1,949
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: Is gambling a sin [Re: michael_lifshitz]
    #5883566 - 07/21/06 02:49 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

to seperate yourself to any emotional attachment to your bankroll and in the way the game played itself, is principle in the game of poker,

but only in line with other principles, such as knowing how to play the game, such as mathimatical odds, reading body language, recognizing playing styles, etc.

and yes I do agree as long as people are being mindful and have an understanding of whats going on, then their shouldn't be any problems,

but the truth of the matter is that casinos exists by preying on peoples compulsive addictions and ignorance towards the games, for most of the games are stacked against the player and towards the house, giving them no chance to win in the long run and making these casino rich in the process, which raises the ethical questions, also alot time and effort is devoted to something that is kind of mindless IMO, and can be very misleading, and counterproductive

the only true games I know of are poker and sports betting, in which the odds can be put in your favor with skill, but these games are still somewhat dangerous if you don't quite understand what your doing


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleLunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
Re: Is gambling a sin [Re: capliberty]
    #5883877 - 07/21/06 08:36 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

also casino play is alot more fair than internet play IMO, another factor in poker is reading expressions and body language which you don't get on the internet, also I think internet hands aren't truly as random as hands being dealt from an actual dealer, computer card generation is a bigger difference than one realizes, also how can online casinos be giving out free bonuses if there isn't some type of catch, so many monsters get shot down with even stronger monster hands, theres to much coincidence IMO to call this truly random, and this is the fishy part of how online casinos conduct themselves, you can have the most beautiful hands and get consistently beaten, and seems to happen often in these environments, I just don't trust it,


It's amazing how great the cards are after an initial deposit and when chasing down their bonuses. Like you say, typically bigger monster hands beating smaller monster hands and often on the river. The hard part as a player is actually betting stupidly when your cards are great because you know you will be the guy hitting on the river. The house just loves that rake. You have to bet it to get it is my motto, the house loves the rake and you will be rewarded. It's fun to hit those flushes on the river when the cards are cranked in your favor (after deposits), and a real pain when you don't hit 10 nut flush draws in a row either on the turn or river when the cards are tweaked against you (after you withdraw enough winnings). Then, if you bet it you might as well forget it.

Tournaments are by far the best way to determine how good or bad your percentages are. When you play very tight and wait for cards only to take horrible river beat after beat and and you can only finish 8th out of 10th in a sit and go when last week you had pro winning numbers, you know the cards have been tweaked.

I managed to turn my $ 100 into $ 1100 after being up to $ 1400 at the peak. Three consecutive days of really lousy cards and horrible beats convinced me it was time to quit. I figure I had spent maybe 400 hours online making that $ 1000 so my "wages of sin" were $ 2.50 an hour...


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleLunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
Re: Is gambling a sin [Re: michael_lifshitz]
    #5883901 - 07/21/06 08:52 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Losing is not an option.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinecapliberty
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/23/06
Posts: 1,949
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: Is gambling a sin [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #5883917 - 07/21/06 09:10 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah I'm pretty good a tournments as well, I won a tournament with a 11 dollar entry fee, and there were 500 people who entered,

I was the short stack on the final table, and pretty much the high stack knocked out all 8 other finalists, but when he came up against me, he ran into a cold streak, and I took him out with one big allin move, I came up 1200 on that tourney

regular casinos are the way to go as far as getting a fair game, they even host better tourneys, as far as losing not being an option, I don't flex one bit but the game sometimes gets weird, so u always have to know when to take your chips, and say peaceout


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleLunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
Re: Is gambling a sin [Re: capliberty]
    #5884086 - 07/21/06 10:53 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I once had an almost all in heads up tournament battle for first place and lost that hand and had 176 chips to my opponent's 19,824 chips. I went on to beat him, it was absolutely surreal.

What I meant by losing not being an option is that most people assume they will lose, they expect it, and when it happens they aren't surprised. I expect to win but will accept a pre-defined loss amount rather than keep bashing my head against a losing dealer or day. The real key is dealer selection at the casino and table selection online, and to keep moving around if you don't have a good situation going.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
Male

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 3 months, 11 days
Re: Is gambling a sin [Re: capliberty]
    #5884666 - 07/21/06 02:26 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Whether or not it's a sin, I can't say for sure. What I can say is that one should not feel bad gambling and winning. In a game of poker all contestants are consenting adults who understand the stakes. Being so, what they bet is fair game.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinecapliberty
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/23/06
Posts: 1,949
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: Is gambling a sin [Re: Redstorm]
    #5886247 - 07/22/06 12:14 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:


The real key is dealer selection at the casino and table selection online, and to keep moving around if you don't have a good situation going.




Is there any mathematical bases behind this, if its truly random, then it shouldn't really matter, If your sensing some real reoccurring patterns between tables, then you might be seeing the nonrandom nature of computer card shuffling, which is why I don't like online play,

although the nature of poker has its bad streaks regardless of environment but to associate that with the dealers action seems illogical, what really determines a bad streak or bad table I think is who is at the table, how good are the players at the table, this is what the key is I think, not the cards themselves,

maybe people are super honed in on mathematical probability beyond what seems direct, now that I recall I've seen some totally fishy and bogus play online, I've had my aces chased down with 2, 3 off suit with nothing matching on the flop, and he calls my all in on the flop, which is pretty gutsy or outright ridiculous I say for having low cards not matching, then he sucks out on two 2's on the turn and river, is there any mathematical justification for this, and this type of action happens repeatedly especially when somebody puts all their money on the table with an all-in move, is this just coincidence, and it seems more times than not they actually bust the person or at least in my case, which when I do it, it hardly ever works

sometimes the play is so absurd, you have to question who's behind all this, its seems to me, just because you laid all your money down on the table this is justification enough to call, because its a clear cut opportunity by the casino to EXTORT your cash with no clear cut proof for you to contend, or is it peoples bankrolls are so enormous that they can practically play any crazy pot odds that are stacked against them because some how they have leverage to zero in on the reoccurring patterns of the system..

and so they're playing the system not the players, I just can't zero in on some of these crazy plays that make no sense, I mean how can someone call an all-in just to check the system whether its OK to call, when the system of cards has shown this has been a low probability shown by past hand sequences and proven by mathematical odds, maybe they're more honed in on it than I am

how many times do you see on previous hands that a 2,3 off suit eventually becomes the best hand after the river when there's no matching pair on the flop, and this guy decides out of the blue to call your All-in with this actual play, are people so rich that they play every single scenario regardless, yes but still, there's no logical basIs behind it, but then again logic has nothing to do with how stupid people play online, its more about pride than winning, and they'll take any absurd opportunity to bust you, but still you'd have to think,is being totally illogical is the logical approach, which seems to be the case with some of these players thinking, altogether you have to look at pot odds and frequency of these suck outs happening, are they matching up or is something illogical occurring within game itself

or does it go back to playing the system, which implying there is a system makes it seem somewhat suspicious, or is there really reoccurring patterns in something thats totally random, I should try to look at the value of pie, how pie in math applies, because pie is suppose to be random representation of a number sequence, which you could study to see if there is any reoccurring patterns, but how can you apply a philosophy thats suppose to be totally unpredictable, maybe math isn't as black/white as it seems from first glance, that its still a prefabrication of human perception, and math is still a flawed representation, even all the way to the fundamental numbering system, because its totally arbitrary how a numbering system can be,

to me it makes sense to assume that online controls can be manipulated and then be used to drain chip stacks with an illogical amount of bad-beats, assuming there are dummie players or affiliates being sparsed through the tables that are doing the cleaning up, who's doing the actual regulating, you must look closer and do the research before trusting your money to an unmonitored establishment, and has no standard enforced upon them, and when the naive players put all their cash credits on this computer animated table with an all-in move, then the online controls senses it, and makes a subroutine to manipulate the outcome, because you don't see an actual dealer distributing cards from actual deck like you do at a regular casino which gives them extra controls to manipulate the game,

Thats why its so essential for me to play at casinos, to totally dismiss any notion of foul play, I can live with myself if I can totally discern it being me, as being the culprit behind bad play, but if the online casinos are doing something, this is where things can get really bad as far as living with myself and my decision making, if I ever explicitly saw proof of their fraudulence I personally would seek out their establishment and C-4 that place, and I might do it kamikaze style if I had to for the great good of everyone, because such action could have huge rippling implications on the economic balance in this world, basically every middle income house hold thats participating in this is getting tricked and the cash flow is getting funneled towards the few greedy rich casino establishments, these few people could be billionaires at the expense of all middle income houses, which is just beyond preposterous to imagine, so much suffering could occur from this,

the only reason why I wouldn't do anything drastic is that its occurred to me that alot of these online players are aware of the implications and fishy play that occurs but still continue on in participating on such fronts, which signifies to me addiction and delusional compulsion which is their own fault, and they deserve no vindication on those basis, so everything does balance out in the long run, but its still sad and the corruption is still not justified, I mean where is the government on this????

Perhaps online casinos try to intensionally pull the wool over your eyes to thinking something is truly fair when its not, some how the online casinos have the game stacked against the player, and this brings up the case in how they can offer free cash bonuses for baiting players into such action, I MEAN LOOK HOW UNREGULATED THE ONLINE ENVIRNONMENT IS ALREADY, AND HOW INNOCUOUS THESE ESTABLISHMENTS TRY TO MAKE THEMSELVES APPEAR WHEN ATTEMPTING TO SEPERATE YOU FROM YOUR CASH,

poker by nature is truly a fair game mathematically, but now I have to regress on mathematical claims in which math is still a faulty system, regardless of its precise technical nature, or is that really true, if its exactly accurate how is it faulty in anyway, when we have used it as a tool to make so much stuff that uses exact accuracy in measurement by mathematical equations that are theorms of truth, they are literal conceptual tools, because its arbitrary doesn't mean its faulty, I'm still not clear on this...........
.
.
.
.

to me if its a truly fair game, and you can dismiss any notion of foul play or card manipulation, its about finding the table where u can detect novice action, and take advantage of it, which I find more opportunity in the regular casinos, also you get a sense of who you going up against, your not going up against some online millionaire who's posing as some common lower income player

and here I go again with the shark mentality which seems to be the only way to approach the game, exploiting other peoples inexperience


Edited by capliberty (07/22/06 05:43 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2  [ show all ]

Shop: Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Is gambling bad for karma? shroom_muncher 2,551 6 01/08/05 05:30 PM
by incubaby_421
* The passion of the Christ
( 1 2 3 all )
flowstone 3,990 51 04/02/05 05:03 PM
by JCoke
* The Soul And The Monster
( 1 2 3 4 all )
DiploidM 4,919 63 06/06/07 04:36 AM
by MushroomTrip
* Christ died for our sins?
( 1 2 3 4 ... 11 12 all )
silversoul7 15,597 231 10/06/03 07:25 AM
by MarkostheGnostic
* is humanity born into sin?
( 1 2 3 all )
purenergy 4,720 40 09/18/03 10:24 PM
by DoctorJ
* How do you defend your sinning?
( 1 2 all )
sir tripsalot 2,571 38 08/04/02 04:35 AM
by Anonymous
* Original Sin OrgoneConclusion 1,495 16 01/22/08 09:38 PM
by AnastomosisJihad
* Casinos And Mystical Powers DiploidM 783 11 04/29/05 05:32 PM
by Swami

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
1,791 topic views. 0 members, 14 guests and 8 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.028 seconds spending 0.01 seconds on 14 queries.