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KingOftheThing
the cool fool


Registered: 11/17/02
Posts: 27,397
Loc: USA
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derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr
#5877401 - 07/19/06 11:38 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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even though its obvious the majority of this country supports stem cell research. bush is going to bow to the jesus freaks and use his veto. this is a step back for science.... i hope he gets all the diseases stem cell research could cure all at once and suffers like crazy http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060719/ap_o...DMzBHNlYwM3MDM-
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HELLA_TIGHT
Madge the Smoking Vag


Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 84,387
Loc: Afghanistan
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: KingOftheThing]
#5877420 - 07/19/06 11:43 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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70% support it, is what I read.
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despisedicon
Stranger

Registered: 06/16/06
Posts: 8,361
Loc:
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: KingOftheThing]
#5877421 - 07/19/06 11:43 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Republicans also pump out how they love Jesus. What was one of the main beliefs of the Christian faith? Help the poor.
Bush's priorities are
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HELLA_TIGHT
Madge the Smoking Vag


Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 84,387
Loc: Afghanistan
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: despisedicon]
#5877422 - 07/19/06 11:44 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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The Republicans are telling Bush to let it pass.
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KingOftheThing
the cool fool


Registered: 11/17/02
Posts: 27,397
Loc: USA
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: HELLA_TIGHT]
#5877436 - 07/19/06 11:46 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
HELLA_TIGHT said: The Republicans are telling Bush to let it pass.
not all the republicans...just the ones with half a brain. the far conservatives are all on his side, read the article i posted. these fucking disgusting christian family groups, who are just fronts for crazy religous extremism are all with bush. these are the same groups who scream about a tit on tv or preach gay hatered
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HELLA_TIGHT
Madge the Smoking Vag


Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 84,387
Loc: Afghanistan
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: KingOftheThing]
#5877443 - 07/19/06 11:49 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well either way it's weak. They were 4 votes short of the 2/3's needed.
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KingOftheThing
the cool fool


Registered: 11/17/02
Posts: 27,397
Loc: USA
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: HELLA_TIGHT]
#5877450 - 07/19/06 11:53 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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yeah there are mostly repubs voting against it. they are such out of touch douches. midterm elections, the dems will sweep as long as we can actually get a fair vote. which who knows with all the voting shenanigans they've been doing.
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gdman
badger, badger,badger...


Registered: 12/10/02
Posts: 16,286
Loc: Dancing In the Streets
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: HELLA_TIGHT]
#5877461 - 07/19/06 11:56 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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The thing that really frustrates me about this is that these embryoes in question are going to get thrown away anyway, so why not use them for some good?
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Got a question about a substance? Erowid might already have your answer! Have questions about the mushroom experience? The Tripper's FAQ may have your answer or someone else might have had your question before. I know up on the top you are seeing great sights, but down at the bottom we, too, should have rights. - Theodor Seuss Geisel Dr. Suess "I didn't come here to be easily understood" - Steve
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HELLA_TIGHT
Madge the Smoking Vag


Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 84,387
Loc: Afghanistan
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: gdman]
#5877466 - 07/19/06 11:58 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Seriously. Snow said Bush doesn't want to touch the subject because they have to "murder" the cells. They'd rather just let them die, I guess.
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Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: KingOftheThing]
#5877470 - 07/19/06 11:59 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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God forbid anyone should mess up a little cluster of chemical reactions, but it's alright to kill REAL children in Iraq. Yeah...
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Flop Johnson
Praise Skatballah


Registered: 09/22/05
Posts: 13,789
Loc: TX
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: KingOftheThing]
#5877471 - 07/19/06 11:59 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
KingOftheThing said: they are such out of touch douches.
We're not the only ones. Look Here
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goobler
Reanimated



Registered: 02/24/03
Posts: 48,909
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: KingOftheThing]
#5877474 - 07/19/06 11:59 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
KingOftheThing said: yeah there are mostly repubs voting against it. they are such out of touch douches. midterm elections, the dems will sweep as long as we can actually get a fair vote. which who knows with all the voting shenanigans they've been doing.
you need to a different world, because you are so far out of touch with this one
it is so ironic you are a car salesman
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Konnrade
↑↑↓↓<--><-->BA



Registered: 09/13/05
Posts: 13,833
Loc: LA Suburbs
Last seen: 8 months, 26 days
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: KingOftheThing]
#5877513 - 07/19/06 12:10 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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For a long time, I disliked bush-bashing...
but in the past 2 or 3 years it's just become impossible to ignore it anymore.
He knows he's got a guaranteed job until his term is up, he knows he'll live the rest of his life receiving big pension checks and Secret Service escort/guard, and he's just doing whatever the hell is on his own agenda.
You can see it in his policies, you can see it in the way he's essentially just doing what the party wants, and (in the most comical way) you can see it in his recent brash (some might go so far as to say careless) behavior with other world leaders.
He's really starting to look like a daring old fart who's willing to exploit his tenure.
My guess is that his decision on this isn't primarily influenced by the citizens' opinion, the past seems to have shown that he has a reasonable disregard for public opinion. What I'd estimate is behind his decision is what has been driving his other behavior: his own personal opinions. He applies somewhat extreme christian conservatism to his decisions. Therefore, because of his own personal stand on the matter, he's opposed to this sort of stem cell research.
I've never liked his idea of applying christianity to his leadership. I'm a christian, and I'm all for stem cell research. None of the research conducted in the US has ever cost the life of a viable human... it's always used sources of stem cells whose chances of ever having a life were essentially nil. The benefit of countless people and the furtherment of beneficial science grossly outweighs the totally remote chance that a few embryos may have had to live a life.
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I find your lack of faith disturbing
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kilroy69
POKER GOD


Registered: 11/19/00
Posts: 1,303
Loc: Jackson,MI. And not in pr...
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: Konnrade]
#5877570 - 07/19/06 12:26 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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The public will remember this when it comes time for the midterm elections. Dems are going to take back seats because of this.
-------------------- Yeaaa im still alive.
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DNKYD
Turtle!

Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 12,326
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: KingOftheThing]
#5877573 - 07/19/06 12:26 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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But if you cure diseases then your buddies who own Big Pharm companies don't get assloads of cash for "treating" them! He's just trying to be nice to his friends, guys, give him a chance.....
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DNKYD
Turtle!

Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 12,326
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: kilroy69]
#5877580 - 07/19/06 12:28 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
kilroy69 said: The public will remember this when it comes time for the midterm elections. Dems are going to take back seats because of this.
And it still won't make a damn bit of difference. Same shit, different mascot.
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ClammyJoe
Azurescen Head



Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 3,691
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: DNKYD]
#5877601 - 07/19/06 12:35 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Don't worry, with the way the population is growing, debt is building, and people are shitting, we'll have an all out revolution by 2050.
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bukkake


Registered: 05/28/05
Posts: 2,764
Loc: Classified
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: KingOftheThing]
#5877660 - 07/19/06 12:51 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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His stem cell speech was one of the most offensive, propagandic things I have ever heard/saw. Parents with their children, rambling about ethics and human life. His policy seems to be it's only okay to be killed when you're alive.
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers


Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 5 months, 23 days
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: DNKYD]
#5877666 - 07/19/06 12:51 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
DNKYD said: But if you cure diseases then your buddies who own Big Pharm companies don't get assloads of cash for "treating" them! He's just trying to be nice to his friends, guys, give him a chance....
Thats stupid. Who do you think stands to make a shitload of money from creating vaccines and gene therapy? Dont for a second think that the Pharmaceutical companies are against stem-cell research. Its a pot of fucking gold to them.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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splifner180
Student


Registered: 03/24/06
Posts: 1,288
Loc: USA, East Coast
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: Konnrade]
#5877669 - 07/19/06 12:51 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I always have this little vision in my head where Jesus comes back. Standard-fare Ted Nugent look-a-like anglo archtype. The skies part and Jesus descends from the heavens whereupon someone explains to him that Dubya is a Christian.
Jesus laughs so hard the sonic shockwave kills everything within a few kilometers.
splif
-------------------- First Grow: Ecuador -> LC -> HPoo/Straw -> Monotub Build a Do-It-Yourself Magnetic Stirrer in thirty minutes with no money.
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DNKYD
Turtle!

Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 12,326
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: Madtowntripper]
#5877692 - 07/19/06 12:58 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Madtowntripper said:
Quote:
DNKYD said: But if you cure diseases then your buddies who own Big Pharm companies don't get assloads of cash for "treating" them! He's just trying to be nice to his friends, guys, give him a chance....
Thats stupid. Who do you think stands to make a shitload of money from creating vaccines and gene therapy? Dont for a second think that the Pharmaceutical companies are against stem-cell research. Its a pot of fucking gold to them.
So you buy it that Bush's veto is for "religious purposes"? If Big Pharm wanted this bill passed they would have no problem convincing Bush to let it go through rather than veto it. Bush has no need to appease his half-wit-religite voter base and so has no need to veto this bill.
Think about it. Bob has a disease. Lets say the cure costs $5000. But Big Pharm doesn't want the cure because it would rather have a treatment that their customer must take X amount of times a day/week/month/year. So Bob needs a treatment every month that costs about $200. So lets see.... $200 X 12 months X 5 years = $12,0000. Makes much more sense.
And when your cure diseases and let people stick around for longer you're just adding to the problem of overpopulation.
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KingOftheThing
the cool fool


Registered: 11/17/02
Posts: 27,397
Loc: USA
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: goobler]
#5877718 - 07/19/06 01:04 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
goobler said:
Quote:
KingOftheThing said: yeah there are mostly repubs voting against it. they are such out of touch douches. midterm elections, the dems will sweep as long as we can actually get a fair vote. which who knows with all the voting shenanigans they've been doing.
you need to a different world, because you are so far out of touch with this one
it is so ironic you are a car salesman
sorry goobs polls show its something like 70-75% of the public supports this, bush the religous conservatives are an out of touch minority
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DNKYD
Turtle!

Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 12,326
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: KingOftheThing]
#5877724 - 07/19/06 01:07 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I thought 90% of our current elected officials were an out-of-touch minority? They don't represent us any more. They only serve to keep themselves in power.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: KingOftheThing]
#5877734 - 07/19/06 01:11 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Don't you know that Jesus came here to save all the embryos?
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splifner180
Student


Registered: 03/24/06
Posts: 1,288
Loc: USA, East Coast
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: DNKYD]
#5877743 - 07/19/06 01:15 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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What DNKYD says is true. The money is in the mitigation, not the cure.
Big pharm has enough common sense to not kill their Golden Goose. But economic self-interest at any cost is the soul of capitalism. Capitalism works but it is, essentially, an appeal to greed.
So why should anyone be surprised when corporations do precisely that?
splif
-------------------- First Grow: Ecuador -> LC -> HPoo/Straw -> Monotub Build a Do-It-Yourself Magnetic Stirrer in thirty minutes with no money.
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KingOftheThing
the cool fool


Registered: 11/17/02
Posts: 27,397
Loc: USA
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: Silversoul]
#5877744 - 07/19/06 01:15 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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yes i know that. also i know in the bible it cleary states we shouldnt harvest stem cells for research. its the new new testament, you will find the passage in bush 3:12
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Microcosmatrix
Spiral staircasetechnician


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 11,293
Loc: Ythan's house
Last seen: 17 years, 1 month
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: Silversoul]
#5877746 - 07/19/06 01:15 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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So much knowledge which mankind is never ready for..
Mankind will inevitably destroy itself with knowledge.
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theuser
DON'T LOOK

Registered: 08/04/05
Posts: 5,859
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: KingOftheThing]
#5877763 - 07/19/06 01:20 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
KingOftheThing said: even though its obvious the majority of this country supports stem cell research. bush is going to bow to the jesus freaks and use his veto. this is a step back for science.... i hope he gets all the diseases stem cell research could cure all at once and suffers like crazy http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060719/ap_o...DMzBHNlYwM3MDM-
5 shrooms for your thread title.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: Microcosmatrix]
#5877765 - 07/19/06 01:20 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Microcosmatrix said: Mankind will inevitably destroy itself with knowledge.
I personally hold to the belief that mankind will destroy itself with stupidity.
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splifner180
Student


Registered: 03/24/06
Posts: 1,288
Loc: USA, East Coast
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: Silversoul]
#5877779 - 07/19/06 01:25 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Microcosmatrix writes: "Mankind will inevitably destroy itself with knowledge. "
While I understand what you're trying to say, I think what we're suffering from right now is industrial-sized amounts of ignorance.
splif
-------------------- First Grow: Ecuador -> LC -> HPoo/Straw -> Monotub Build a Do-It-Yourself Magnetic Stirrer in thirty minutes with no money.
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Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 18 days
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: KingOftheThing]
#5877796 - 07/19/06 01:30 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I don't understand the fuss. The US government already funds stem cell research... with more dollars than any other country in the world. The US government does not prohibit embryonic stem cell research by anyone who wants to give it a shot -- they just won't (if Bush vetos the bill) increase federal funding for it. In actual fact, the federal government shouldn't be funding ANY research. That's not its job.
To me the only thing noteworthy about this veto is that it is Bush's first. This spending bill should be vetoed, true, but so should several dozen others have been vetoed in the last five years.
Phred
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Microcosmatrix
Spiral staircasetechnician


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 11,293
Loc: Ythan's house
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: Silversoul]
#5877822 - 07/19/06 01:35 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Silversoul said:
Quote:
Microcosmatrix said: Mankind will inevitably destroy itself with knowledge.
I personally hold to the belief that mankind will destroy itself with stupidity.
true, but it's the knowledge that will give the stupidity its bite.
Mankind isn't smart enough for the knowledge they possess.
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Konnrade
↑↑↓↓<--><-->BA



Registered: 09/13/05
Posts: 13,833
Loc: LA Suburbs
Last seen: 8 months, 26 days
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: Phred]
#5877909 - 07/19/06 01:56 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Phred said: In actual fact, the federal government shouldn't be funding ANY research. That's not its job.
You think so? May I ask why?
The government has in the past funded lots of very important basic research. Private groups are less keen on putting money into basic research, since the chance and nature of the payoff is unknown they tend to be apprehensive of it.
The way I've heard that things work well is that the government will do basic research that private research might not have wanted to do, and then private research can use the basic research results and build/expand upon it once there's a stable foundation for profitable endeavor.
--------------------
I find your lack of faith disturbing
Edited by Konnrade (07/19/06 02:41 PM)
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Vvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: KingOftheThing]
#5878081 - 07/19/06 02:39 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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if bush were to support stem-cell research, he would further alienate the christian right - the same people that got him into office in the first place. he's following Rove's political strategy.
yes, the bush administration sucks.
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Vvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: Konnrade]
#5878088 - 07/19/06 02:42 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Konnrade said:
Quote:
Phred said: In actual fact, the federal government shouldn't be funding ANY research. That's not its job.
You think so? May I ask why?
The government has in the past funded lots of very important basic research. Private groups are less keen on putting money into basic research, since the chance and nature of the payoff is unknown they tend to be apprehensive of it.
The way I've heard that things work well is that the government will do basic research that private research might not have wanted to do, and then private research can use the basic research results and build/expand upon it once there's a stable foundation for profitable endeavor.
if not for government research and development, we probably wouldnt be arguing on the internet.
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goobler
Reanimated



Registered: 02/24/03
Posts: 48,909
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: KingOftheThing]
#5878104 - 07/19/06 02:46 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
KingOftheThing said:
Quote:
goobler said:
Quote:
KingOftheThing said: yeah there are mostly repubs voting against it. they are such out of touch douches. midterm elections, the dems will sweep as long as we can actually get a fair vote. which who knows with all the voting shenanigans they've been doing.
you need to a different world, because you are so far out of touch with this one
it is so ironic you are a car salesman
sorry goobs polls show its something like 70-75% of the public supports this, bush the religous conservatives are an out of touch minority
no, I meant bush isnt behind this, just like the pres isnt behind much...big biz controls the puppets, that where you need to concentrate your pressure
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: Konnrade]
#5878105 - 07/19/06 02:46 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Konnrade said: You think so? May I ask why?
It's libertarianism. Don't bother trying to make sense of it. I wasted a couple years of my life doing exactly that.
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mikeownow
Humungus fungus

Registered: 09/01/05
Posts: 2,856
Loc: WA,USA
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: Silversoul]
#5878126 - 07/19/06 02:51 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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every time someone has a period.... you kill a baby.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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NobodyCares
Whatever and ever, amen


Registered: 05/31/06
Posts: 1,919
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Last seen: 9 days, 19 hours
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: Silversoul]
#5878141 - 07/19/06 02:59 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Okay, for all of you who seem to think that not allowing embryonic stem cell research will set science back, please allow me to open your eyes to a few things.
1) Embryonic stem cell research has cured precisely dick.
2) Embryonic stem cell research is not only years behind adult stem cell research, it is years away from producing any results other than teratomas in mice. Embryonic stem cell research not only has not produced anything remotely usable in mice, many of the "treatments" that have been tried thus far shouldn't be allowed anywhere near humans, ever. Think I'm making it up? Allow me to refer you to a case where embryonic stem cells were injected into Parkinson's patients, resulting in permanent twitches along the lines of severe Tourette's disorder.
3) Adult stem cell research has cured or successfully treated to date: ...Rebuilding cirrhosis racked livers ...Repairing spinal chord injuries helping several people walk again ...Completely reversing type 1 diabetes in mice ...Putting lupus into remission ...Repairing damage from heart attacks and congenital heart problems
And that's just to name a few.
Before you go off ranting about stem-cell research, please bear in mind that it is a lot easier to demonize someone who disagrees with you, rather than looking at the facts. While I may personally think that we should allow science to better itself, I don't think that anyone who doesn't agree with me is an idiot.
-------------------- The story goes, or the way that I was told There was a king that always felt too high and then he fell too low And so he called all the wise men to the hall And begged them for a gift to end the rises and the falls But here’s the thing, they came back with a ring It was simple and was plainly unbefitting of a king Engraved in black, it had no front or back But there were words around the band that said Just know: This Too Shall Pass
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Silversoul
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: mikeownow]
#5878152 - 07/19/06 03:03 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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mikeownow said: every time someone has a period.... you kill a baby.
Same thing when you masturbate or use a condom
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splifner180
Student


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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: Microcosmatrix]
#5878153 - 07/19/06 03:03 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Phred writes: "I don't understand the fuss. The US government already funds stem cell research... with more dollars than any other country in the world. The US government does not prohibit embryonic stem cell research by anyone who wants to give it a shot -- they just won't (if Bush vetos the bill) increase federal funding for it. In actual fact, the federal government shouldn't be funding ANY research. That's not its job. "
Sure it is.
Governments step in to fund things that would not get done by capitalism. An easily-understood example is waste removal. If the government didn't prop up that profession, it wouldn't get done.
In this case the private sector has a vested interest in not working on it because it'll lead to cures, not better drugs. A parasite keeps its host alive for a reason. And big pharm would rather, like someone else pointed out, sell someone $1,200 a month in an AIDS drug cocktail for the next twenty years than have a cure for $10,000.
How much have we spent on that debacle called "Iraq?" Oh, here it is: $279,000,000,000 and counting. But that's only so far. And you're telling me that our government doesn't have a responsibility to provide, say, one HUNDREDTH of that ($2.8 billion) to research that shows great potential for curing things like, say, cancer.
And here's the part where it gets funny...
It's done because some lunatics with invisible friends and an Armageddon fetish believe that a bundle of cells with no nervous system whatsoever is, morally speaking, as much a human as you or I.
splif
-------------------- First Grow: Ecuador -> LC -> HPoo/Straw -> Monotub Build a Do-It-Yourself Magnetic Stirrer in thirty minutes with no money.
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NobodyCares
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: splifner180]
#5878169 - 07/19/06 03:10 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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splifner180 said:[ In this case the private sector has a vested interest in not working on it because it'll lead to cures, not better drugs. A parasite keeps its host alive for a reason. And big pharm would rather, like someone else pointed out, sell someone $1,200 a month in an AIDS drug cocktail for the next twenty years than have a cure for $10,000.
How much have we spent on that debacle called "Iraq?" Oh, here it is: $279,000,000,000 and counting. But that's only so far. And you're telling me that our government doesn't have a responsibility to provide, say, one HUNDREDTH of that ($2.8 billion) to research that shows great potential for curing things like, say, cancer.
Okay let's break this down. Pharmaseutical companies don't want to cure diseases because it's better for them to just treat them? Yeah, because in the past capitolism has failed so miserably at funding the cures to things like polio and smallpox, not to mention the chicken pox vaccine that came out in the '90s. In response to your war comment, yes the govenment has every right to spend money on war and not subsidizing private research. You know what that's called? Socialism, because it's not the government's job to just throw money at everything to better the world. It's the government's job to make sure people like you and I can sleep comfortably at night knowing that psychopaths like Saddam aren't out there cooking up ICMBs. Not to mention the fact that we're actively dissuading those islamo-fascists with every bomb dropped in their region. I don't agree with how we got there, but open your eyes man, we're there now.
-------------------- The story goes, or the way that I was told There was a king that always felt too high and then he fell too low And so he called all the wise men to the hall And begged them for a gift to end the rises and the falls But here’s the thing, they came back with a ring It was simple and was plainly unbefitting of a king Engraved in black, it had no front or back But there were words around the band that said Just know: This Too Shall Pass
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Silversoul
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: NobodyCares]
#5878173 - 07/19/06 03:12 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I love how righties throw around the word socialism without having a clue what it means. Please explain what government funding of research has to do with the workers owning the means of production.
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NobodyCares
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: Silversoul]
#5878185 - 07/19/06 03:16 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Okay, I'll admit I got carried away there. However, you have to admit that the government subsidizing everything, education, public research and big corporations included, sounds a little like the basic idea of socialism. Now, I don't think we're there yet, and in fact I think that for the most part the majority of the economy is left alone (as it should be), however it just gets me all anxious any time people talk about just throwing money at a problem as if that will solve it. The problem with embryonic research isn't that it's not funded. The problem with embryonic stem cell research is the research.
-------------------- The story goes, or the way that I was told There was a king that always felt too high and then he fell too low And so he called all the wise men to the hall And begged them for a gift to end the rises and the falls But here’s the thing, they came back with a ring It was simple and was plainly unbefitting of a king Engraved in black, it had no front or back But there were words around the band that said Just know: This Too Shall Pass
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NobodyCares
Whatever and ever, amen


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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: Silversoul]
#5878186 - 07/19/06 03:18 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Silversoul said: I love how righties throw around the word socialism without having a clue what it means. Please explain what government funding of research has to do with the workers owning the means of production.
By the way, I was entirely correct in my use of the word socialism. You have communism and socialism confused.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
-------------------- The story goes, or the way that I was told There was a king that always felt too high and then he fell too low And so he called all the wise men to the hall And begged them for a gift to end the rises and the falls But here’s the thing, they came back with a ring It was simple and was plainly unbefitting of a king Engraved in black, it had no front or back But there were words around the band that said Just know: This Too Shall Pass
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Silversoul
Rhizome


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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: NobodyCares]
#5878203 - 07/19/06 03:24 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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NobodyCares said: Okay, I'll admit I got carried away there. However, you have to admit that the government subsidizing everything, education, public research and big corporations included, sounds a little like the basic idea of socialism.
No, I don't have to admit it, because it's not true. It's simply how modern welfare capitalism works. The alternative, laissez-faire capitalism, was tried in the 19th century, and resulted in all kinds of horrible conditions for the workers and the poor. That's why things changed.
As for "throwing money" at the problem, that's a widely right-wing catchphrase to try and simplify the problem. In the case of stem cell research, we're "throwing money" exactly where it needs to be thrown. The problem with stem cell research is exactly that: a lack of funding. The market isn't providing the necessary resource for this research, so that's where the government steps in.
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Silversoul
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: NobodyCares]
#5878207 - 07/19/06 03:25 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
NobodyCares said:
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Silversoul said: I love how righties throw around the word socialism without having a clue what it means. Please explain what government funding of research has to do with the workers owning the means of production.
By the way, I was entirely correct in my use of the word socialism. You have communism and socialism confused.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
Nope, I was right.
"As an economic system, socialism is usually associated with state or collective ownership of the means of production."
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NobodyCares
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: Silversoul]
#5878221 - 07/19/06 03:30 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Your point about conditions in the early 1800s is partially correct. I will agree that during the early years of laissez-fare capitalism the system had its flaws. However, the great thing about the economy is that it tends to correct itself. Great capitalists such as Rockefeller and Ford created superb conditions for their workers with absolutely no intervention from the government in the same time period.
In response to your comment about embryonic stem cell research. Yes, of course the market isn't going to support it. Would you buy a horse if there are cars on the market? Of course not. Adult stem cell research is more promising, better understood and has produced solid results. The market is not going to support a dead end, because unlike government spending, the market can react to crappy research as it sees fit.
-------------------- The story goes, or the way that I was told There was a king that always felt too high and then he fell too low And so he called all the wise men to the hall And begged them for a gift to end the rises and the falls But here’s the thing, they came back with a ring It was simple and was plainly unbefitting of a king Engraved in black, it had no front or back But there were words around the band that said Just know: This Too Shall Pass
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NobodyCares
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: Silversoul]
#5878226 - 07/19/06 03:32 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yeah, state control of the means of production. If the government controls the funding for the product known as embryonic stem cell research, they control the means of production. Namely, they have say in what can and cannot be researched, and who can and cannot research it. How is this not akin to socialism?
-------------------- The story goes, or the way that I was told There was a king that always felt too high and then he fell too low And so he called all the wise men to the hall And begged them for a gift to end the rises and the falls But here’s the thing, they came back with a ring It was simple and was plainly unbefitting of a king Engraved in black, it had no front or back But there were words around the band that said Just know: This Too Shall Pass
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Silversoul
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: NobodyCares]
#5878249 - 07/19/06 03:42 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
In response to your comment about embryonic stem cell research. Yes, of course the market isn't going to support it. Would you buy a horse if there are cars on the market? Of course not. Adult stem cell research is more promising, better understood and has produced solid results. The market is not going to support a dead end, because unlike government spending, the market can react to crappy research as it sees fit.
Wrong, wrong, wrong. Anyone who understands what stem cells are can understand why embryonic stem cells are more promising. A stem cell is a cell that can become another kind of cell, such as a muscle cell, a nerve cell, or a skin cell. Now, we maintain stem cells throughout our life, but in adults they are much more limited in terms of the kind of cells they can become. An embryonic stem cell can become absolutely any kind of cell. That is why they hold more promise. The reason why adult stem cell research has had more resuts is...<drumroll>...it's being funded!
The market is a great way of distributing resources, but the problem is that it's short-sighted, and profit-oriented. Now, I'm not saying the profit motive is always bad. In fact, it's usually a good thing. But there are some things that are good for society that just aren't profitable, and in some cases, the profit motive can be harmful, and create perverse motives. That's why sometimes the government needs to step in.
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Silversoul
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: NobodyCares]
#5878251 - 07/19/06 03:42 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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NobodyCares said: Yeah, state control of the means of production. If the government controls the funding for the product known as embryonic stem cell research, they control the means of production. Namely, they have say in what can and cannot be researched, and who can and cannot research it. How is this not akin to socialism?
I don't think you quite understand the concept of "means of production."
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NobodyCares
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: Silversoul]
#5878299 - 07/19/06 04:12 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I agree that embryonic stem cells may be more promising, however I think that there's no reason to fund them just on pie-in-the-sky claims that one day there is a possibility that they may cure cancer, or Parkinson's, etc. However the fact of the matter is that there is absolutely no evidence that this is the case. There is not a human trial to point to. There is not even a successful animal trial. It's easy to say that one day embryonic stem cells will cure everything, but that's just like saying that my toenail clippings may, eventually, one day, with enough research, become the cure to baldness. However, it's easy to see that with no evidence to prove me right, I may just be another researcher hoping to get paid dicking around with toenail clippings.
In response to means of production, let's break it down. Feel free to correct me if I am misinterpreting any of these.
"Means" I think can safely be taken to mean the method of production, i.e. "a procedure for attaining an object". That object is production. Production is defined by the Oxford English Dictionary as "The action of producing, bringing forth, making, or causing..." Okay, so now when I speak of the means of production, I am speaking of the methods by which a certain good or service is brought forth, made or produced. Now, when the government subsidizes something such as embryonic stem cell research, it becomes responsible for funding the project because there is no influx of funds from the market. Thus, the government is doing things such as, paying salaries, buying equipment, etc. Because of this, the government has the ability to say "If you do X we will continue to pay your salary, or buy you computers. " Because of this, we see a relationship form, namely the government can change the meaning of X as they see fit. Now, under a socialist regime, the government is free to do just that. They have a method of control which stems from the monetary power vested in them by the people under their government. As such, they control the money, and have the ability to with hold said money from people such as, let's say researchers. Now, if controlling funds is akin to controlling the means of production, (the methods by which a certain good or service is brought forth, made or produced) which it clearly is, how is the government controlling the funding for the means of production for embryonic stem cell research not socialism?
-------------------- The story goes, or the way that I was told There was a king that always felt too high and then he fell too low And so he called all the wise men to the hall And begged them for a gift to end the rises and the falls But here’s the thing, they came back with a ring It was simple and was plainly unbefitting of a king Engraved in black, it had no front or back But there were words around the band that said Just know: This Too Shall Pass
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Phred
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: Konnrade]
#5878337 - 07/19/06 04:31 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Konnrade writes:
Quote:
You think so? May I ask why?
Sure. It's because the federal government is allowed to do only what the Constitution specifically allows it to do.
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The government has in the past funded lots of very important basic research.
The government has done all kinds of things in the past. Doesn't mean it should have. Prohibition of alcohol springs to mind immediately, closely followed by prohibition of other naturally occurring substances, involvement in welfare schemes, the space race.... it's a long list.
Quote:
Private groups are less keen on putting money into basic research, since the chance and nature of the payoff is unknown they tend to be apprehensive of it.
If it is true that people exercising their own considered judgment have come to that conclusion, this is all the more reason not to take money from them against against their will to throw at something with an unknown chance of payoff.
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The way I've heard that things work well is that the government will do basic research that private research might not have wanted to do, and then private research can use the basic research results and build/expand upon it once there's a stable foundation for profitable endeavor.
Not everything one hears is factual.
Phred
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Silversoul
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: NobodyCares]
#5878348 - 07/19/06 04:35 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'll concede the point about the means of production, if only for the fact that it's not worth debating. In the end, it doesn't matter if you call it socialism or capitalism or what have you. All that matters is the consequences, which, if we're speaking about government funding of research, has been largely positive.
As for the stem cell issue, we have seen positive results when it comes to adult stem cells, and we know that embryonic stem cells are more versatile than adult stem cells, so it follows that we can get even greater results from them. There is ample precedent for believing that this research will bring about great results by increasing our understanding of human biology. I'm sure there's already been sufficient research on toenail clippings. You act as if the researchers who are predicting these results are just pulling these predictions out of their ass, which just isn't the case. They are making these claims because there is sufficient evidence upon which to make such predictions.
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Phred
Fred's son


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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: splifner180]
#5878353 - 07/19/06 04:37 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Governments step in to fund things that would not get done by capitalism. An easily-understood example is waste removal. If the government didn't prop up that profession, it wouldn't get done.
Nonsense. Long before governments got involved in collecting garbage and trucking it out to the dump, individuals were taking garbage to the dump.
I live in the Dominican Republic. There is no government-run garbage collection service here. We pay private contractors to pick it up, or take it to the dump ourselves. New York city did the same up until at least the late Eighties and for all I know may still be doing it.
It is a common delusion of Collectivists that if government didn't do certain things those things wouldn't be done at all.
Phred
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splifner180
Student


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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: NobodyCares]
#5878384 - 07/19/06 04:46 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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NobodyCares writes: "Okay let's break this down. Pharmaseutical companies don't want to cure diseases because it's better for them to just treat them? Yeah, because in the past capitolism has failed so miserably at funding the cures to things like polio and smallpox, not to mention the chicken pox vaccine that came out in the '90s."
Ok, let's break that down.
Polio, a viral paralytic disease discovered around 1840, was eradicated chiefly by the World Health Organization and The Rotary Foundation of Rotary International. The WHO's mission statement includes "the attainment by all peoples of the highest possible level of health."
WHO's funding comes from two sources: assessed contributions from member states and voluntary contributions from members [countries] and others.
Damn socialists. Sounds terrible.
Hey, maybe you've heard of something called a 40-hour week? Weekends? No? You can thank the pinko commie labor unions for that little gem.
But let's get back to your analysis...
Smallpox, guess what? WHO again.
You sarcastically wrote, "...in the past capitolism has failed so miserably at funding the cures to things like polio and smallpox..." But the fact is that capitolism has precisely jack and shit to do with curing these diseases.
Socialism did, though.
And chickenpox vaccine? You've got cancer in the same ballpark as chickenpox? Seriously?
"In response to your war comment, yes the govenment has every right to spend money on war and not subsidizing private research."
Whoever agrees with you deserves what they get. =)
"You know what that's called? Socialism, because it's not the government's job to just throw money at everything to better the world."
And it wasn't the good samaritan's job to help the injured man. Imagine that. Helping someone even when you didn't have to.
Sounds terrible.
" It's the government's job to make sure people like you and I can sleep comfortably at night knowing that psychopaths like Saddam aren't out there cooking up ICMBs."
Oh, right. Saddam. I remember him. He's the guy we sold all those chemicals to.
Saddam Hussein, the guy with the mobile weapons labs.
Saddam Hussein, the guy who could hit the continental U.S. within 45 minutes.
Saddam Hussein, the guy with stockpiles of chemical weapons near Tikrit.
Saddam Hussein, the guy who tried to purchase yellowcake uranium from Niger.
Tell me, NC, is compulsive lying a function of psychosis?
Yes, Saddam was a sociopath. For some reason you seem to think that if I don't agree with Bush, I do agree with Saddam. Why is that?
"Not to mention the fact that we're actively dissuading those islamo-fascists with every bomb dropped in their region."
Really? Dissuaded? You think so? Does it occur to you that it's moderatism that both Bush and Hezbollah despise? War is pretty much what Hezbollah wants. It's like a recruitment open house.
"I don't agree with how we got there, but open your eyes man, we're there now. "
Whether we're already there or not is hardly germane to the question of whether it's a good idea. Whether it's succeeding is more useful.
"Now, I don't think we're there [a socialist state] yet, and in fact I think that for the most part the majority of the economy is left alone (as it should be)..."
Left alone?
You have clean water due to progressive clean water standards.
Your medicine is safe to use because there are regulatory boards that make sure it works.
Your breakfast is safe due to laws regulating the meat packing industry.
The bottles of shampoo and soap in your shower are labeled so you know what's in them. Guess whose idea that was?
The air you breathe on your way to work is clean because some tree-hugger fought for clean air laws. Companies don't much care for clean air laws.
Maybe you take a train or a bus to work. Subsidized.
If you ever get hurt on the job you have disability insurance to make sure you don't lose your home, and you can still eat. Socialism to the core.
Your bank account is indemnified from being wiped out due to banking scandals and Ken Lay types.
Are you beginning to see a theme here?
Ah, I'll just quote the rest.
Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae underwritten Mortgage and his below market federal student loan because some stupid liberal decided that Joe and the government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over his life-time.
Joe is home from work, he plans to visit his father this evening at his farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive to dads; his car is among the safest in the world because some liberal fought for car safety standards. He arrives at his boyhood home. He was the third generation to live in the house financed by Farmers Home Administration because bankers didn’t want to make rural loans. The house didn’t have electric until some big government liberal stuck his nose where it didn’t belong and demanded rural electrification. (Those rural Republican’s would still be sitting in the dark)
He is happy to see his dad who is now retired. His dad lives on Social Security and his union pension because some liberal made sure he could take care of himself so Joe wouldn’t have to. After his visit with dad he gets back in his car for the ride home.
He turns on a radio talk show, the host’s keeps saying that liberals are bad and conservatives are good. (He doesn’t tell Joe that his beloved Republicans have fought against every protection and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his day) Joe agrees, “We don’t need those big government liberals ruining our lives; after all, I’m a self made man who believes everyone should take care of themselves, just like I have”.
So to answer your assertion that "for the most part the majority of the economy is left alone (as it should be)," no, you're dead wrong.
"However, the great thing about the economy is that it tends to correct itself."
That's an odd way of saying "what's good for the economy is inherently good for humans."
Maybe we should ditch the GDP (Gross Domestic Product) and measure our success as a country with the GDH (Gross Domestic Happiness).
splif
-------------------- First Grow: Ecuador -> LC -> HPoo/Straw -> Monotub Build a Do-It-Yourself Magnetic Stirrer in thirty minutes with no money.
Edited by splifner180 (07/19/06 04:51 PM)
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Silversoul
Rhizome


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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: splifner180]
#5878410 - 07/19/06 04:54 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Maybe we should ditch the GDP (Gross Domestic Product) and measure our success as a country with the GDH (Gross Domestic Happiness).
I'm a fan of the GPI myself.
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cougercruiser
reality is whatyou make it~

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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: splifner180]
#5878428 - 07/19/06 04:59 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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i dont know about you people but im not looking foward to seeing the human population grow anymore....i cant even get to work in the morning cuz there are so many fucking idots on the freeway with a cell phone stuck to their ear. Hasnt anyone noticed how many fucking people there are>? and how fast we are multiplying!!!!!
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Silversoul
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: cougercruiser]
#5878436 - 07/19/06 05:02 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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The largest concentration of human growth is in the third world, where many people can't afford quality medical treatment anyway. The best way to help the population problem is to reduce poverty(take that, Malthus!).
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cougercruiser
reality is whatyou make it~

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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: Silversoul]
#5878470 - 07/19/06 05:13 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thomas Robert. 1766-183 British economist who wrote An Essay on the Principle of Population (1798), arguing that population tends to increase faster than food supply, with inevitably disastrous results, unless the increase in population is checked by moral restraints or by war, famine, and disease.
what? dude......these people are ignorant....why would you keep fucking if your dieing? like africa for example......wtf? why are you spreading more aids? cambodia....why do you keep reproducing when you have no food?.....these are stupid ppl.....what so you can keep your race up to par? or so you can make shit worse for everyone els.....dude i work for a healthcare company....i get more people having babys than i get people who are going through hospice.
cheack out the human population in 1900 compared to now? thats a huge difference! and thats only 100years of ower existance.....personally i think we should bust a china move and have it where couples can have only one kid.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: cougercruiser]
#5878489 - 07/19/06 05:18 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
cougercruiser said: what? dude......these people are ignorant....why would you keep fucking if your dieing? like africa for example......wtf? why are you spreading more aids? cambodia....why do you keep reproducing when you have no food?.....these are stupid ppl.....what so you can keep your race up to par? or so you can make shit worse for everyone els.....dude i work for a healthcare company....i get more people having babys than i get people who are going through hospice.
There's a common misconception that people in third world countries have more kids than they can afford to raise. The fact of the matter is that they can't afford not to have lots of kids. The cost of raising a kid is much cheaper in those countries, and since there are no child labor laws, the kid can actually start making money for the family at a young age. Also, without any sort of pension plan, people rely on their kids to take care of them in their old age. And not all of the kids will survive to adulthood, so they have to have many of them, just in case. That's why in developed nations like in Europe and the US, the fertility rate tends to drop. People don't need kids to support themselves, and in fact, having a child eventually becomes a financial burden rather than an asset. So most families only have 2-3 kids, if that.
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relativexistance
"beads, bees!?!?beads ....BEADS!!!"


Registered: 01/08/04
Posts: 1,778
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: Phred]
#5878493 - 07/19/06 05:20 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Just some food for though about how about the government intervention topic, look at the space program and how it pretty much was necessary to have government activity to get off the ground. I mean it is a government program, but back in the 60's I doubt you could find a private organization willing and able to put as much money into it as the gov did. There are a plentiful amount of discoveries and advancements that were brought about from that program. Now I'm not saying that it is entirely necessary that the government created a program for space research to happen, however without that initial government investment there is no doubt in my mind that we would have significantly less scientific research and information on space as well as of all its related research. What organization do you know today willing to spend billions of dollars on a single space launch with no immediately foreseable benefits?
Either way publicly funded researchs in-turn speeds private research and is sometimes a major driving force. Especially in areas where the research requires huge overheads i.e. aeronautical, space, weapons, defense...
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cougercruiser
reality is whatyou make it~

Registered: 10/05/04
Posts: 538
Loc: Cali
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: Silversoul]
#5878513 - 07/19/06 05:27 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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these people have 2-3 kids per person? that twice the person!....ok the government in these countrys are fucked up BUT they put themselves in that situation. Why is it that other states uk,us,china,australia,canada can have a great way of governing or keeping there people alive and paid? shit iraq has grips of oil, they should be slangin that shit like crazy and makin bank.
Im not really even talking about other countrys im talking about here, california...the US! i dont know where you live but i cant get on the bus without somones butt crack being in my face or having to sit next to the bum thats jerkin off next to me because its so overpopulated! people like my fuckin mom (which i hate) having fuckin 8 kids! why? so she can live on wellfare! these people should be shot and killed!
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: cougercruiser]
#5878553 - 07/19/06 05:40 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
cougercruiser said: these people have 2-3 kids per person?
Not unless people have suddenly gained the ability to reproduce asexually. I'm talking about 2-3 kids per couple. And that, of course, is not counting those who have 1 or no kids.
Quote:
Im not really even talking about other countrys im talking about here, california...the US!
The US does not have a population problem.
Quote:
i dont know where you live but i cant get on the bus without somones butt crack being in my face or having to sit next to the bum thats jerkin off next to me because its so overpopulated!
I live in California too, and I haven't seen that problem so much. But maybe it's because California has shitty public transportation.
Quote:
people like my fuckin mom (which i hate) having fuckin 8 kids! why? so she can live on wellfare! these people should be shot and killed!
Well, I wouldn't go that far, but I do see the need for the welfare system to be reformed.
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Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 18 days
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: relativexistance]
#5878580 - 07/19/06 05:49 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Just some food for though about how about the government intervention topic, look at the space program and how it pretty much was necessary to have government activity to get off the ground.
What's your point?
Phred
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relativexistance
"beads, bees!?!?beads ....BEADS!!!"


Registered: 01/08/04
Posts: 1,778
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: Phred]
#5878620 - 07/19/06 06:01 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Phred said:
It is a common delusion of Collectivists that if government didn't do certain things those things wouldn't be done at all.
My point is if it werent for the government intervention how would all of the research that was a result of the space program have existed without such a large organization to back it. Not that it is impossible, just highly improbable, and would have taken much longer to get off the ground.
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Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: relativexistance]
#5878665 - 07/19/06 06:20 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
My point is if it werent for the government intervention how would all of the research that was a result of the space program have existed without such a large organization to back it. Not that it is impossible, just highly improbable, and would have taken much longer to get off the ground.
Yes, I understand that. How does this speculation of yours (which I will concede is almost certainly accurate speculation) show that one of the legitimate functions of government is the funding of space exploration?
Let's take the prohibition of alcohol (which we all agree was NOT a legitimate government function) as an example. It is undeniable that some good came from it. Vast fortunes were made which otherwise would not have been, some people swore off alcohol for good who would not otherwise have done so, thus lengthening their lives and making the lives of their loved ones more bearable, etc.
Same thing with the current prohibition of weed. There are a shit ton of otherwise unemployable folks making a decent living as dope dealers. What would all those people do if we could buy a pack of joints at the local weed store as easily as we currently buy a carton of beer at the local liquor store?
Just because some illegitimate actions of government lead to benefits for some people, this does not legitimize these actions.
Phred
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mikeownow
Humungus fungus

Registered: 09/01/05
Posts: 2,856
Loc: WA,USA
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: Phred]
#5878759 - 07/19/06 06:55 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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It is called research for a reason NobodyCares... How are we ever going to find anything out about it if we do not research it.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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relativexistance
"beads, bees!?!?beads ....BEADS!!!"


Registered: 01/08/04
Posts: 1,778
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: Phred]
#5878808 - 07/19/06 07:09 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I wasn't really arguing whether said funding was legitimate, rather that sometimes in order for progress, government intervention is necessary.
If you want to argue the legitimacy of governmental actions thats a whole different topic than what I was referring to. One for which I still find funding research that potentially, and in its motives is meant to benefit public welfare, wholly legitimate.
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NobodyCares
Whatever and ever, amen


Registered: 05/31/06
Posts: 1,919
Loc: Brilliance/Insanity
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: mikeownow]
#5878859 - 07/19/06 07:25 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
mikeownow said: It is called research for a reason NobodyCares... How are we ever going to find anything out about it if we do not research it.
My main point was the fact that we have real, definitive results with adult stem cells. Why not focus on improving the research there? I'm totally against everything that's inherent in the argument "the government should subsidize stem cell research." But it's just adding insult to injury to subsidize something that's delivered no results. Sure, we can research anything, but that doesn't mean that we have to keep funding avenues of research that have already been outperformed or have been proved to be dead ends.
-------------------- The story goes, or the way that I was told There was a king that always felt too high and then he fell too low And so he called all the wise men to the hall And begged them for a gift to end the rises and the falls But here’s the thing, they came back with a ring It was simple and was plainly unbefitting of a king Engraved in black, it had no front or back But there were words around the band that said Just know: This Too Shall Pass
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splifner180
Student


Registered: 03/24/06
Posts: 1,288
Loc: USA, East Coast
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: NobodyCares]
#5879281 - 07/19/06 09:32 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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NobodyCares, find me anything peer-reviewed that asserts spending resources on embryonic stem cell research would be wasteful. I'm only asking for one.
splif
-------------------- First Grow: Ecuador -> LC -> HPoo/Straw -> Monotub Build a Do-It-Yourself Magnetic Stirrer in thirty minutes with no money.
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kake
The answer to1984 is 1776.



Registered: 05/06/99
Posts: 2,782
Loc: The 66th harmonic
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: splifner180]
#5879370 - 07/19/06 09:54 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I would respect his argument about the sacredness of life and the religious implications, thats his right to believe what he wants, but it contradicts his other actions.
i.e. sending 18 year olds to war to die for questionable causes is alright, but killing consciousless stem cells with ONE PURPOSE - to save lives - is somehow sacreligious?
suck a fucking cock, BUSH
-------------------- The answer to 1984 is 1776.
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kake
The answer to1984 is 1776.



Registered: 05/06/99
Posts: 2,782
Loc: The 66th harmonic
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: kake]
#5879379 - 07/19/06 09:55 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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don't reply with "well the 18 year olds have a choice"
they didnt have a choice to be born in the USA.
-------------------- The answer to 1984 is 1776.
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mellowrubberduck
NDE on 7/8/06


Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 241
Loc: Pennsylvania, USA
Last seen: 14 years, 4 months
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: kake]
#5879505 - 07/19/06 10:25 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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It seems as if everyone just loves to hate Bush. About the war: Bush didn't gather the intelligence himself, the other government groups did. If you were the president, and the CIA/NSA provided you with intel which was believed to be happening, would you look the other fucking way? You guys sicken me. Even in the upcoming elections, just because you hate Bush and the republicans (far right or not), don't vote Dem simply in spite, vote on the person, not the party.
And as far as stem cell research, we don't know *what* can be gathered, but we can only find out by *researching*. Personally, I'm glad he vetoed the bill. Everybody that is pissed because it didn't pass needs to stop. The research isn't going to stop, just the proposed funding of it (I believe it was by the taxpayers?). And, everyone that supports the research, I can safely assume is Pro Choice, not Pro Life, correct? Not a clean and direct connection, but close enough to put two and two together. These embryos are being grown *specifically* to be harvested. No, not *gathered to further medicinal science*, but *harvested*, as if it was a fucking corn field. They are the beginning of a human life (and I don't care who says they know when *life* starts, there's no damn way to say it happens at the actual birth just so people won't have a guilty conscience), and they should be treated as such, not be treated as another *thing*.
So, continue to have your negative opinion on Bush, don't support our troops (our SOLDIERS for christ's sake), and throw all your leftist ideas around, but I've hopefully balanced this board out a little bit with more than one party's opinion.
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splifner180
Student


Registered: 03/24/06
Posts: 1,288
Loc: USA, East Coast
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: mellowrubberduck]
#5880998 - 07/20/06 10:56 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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mellowrubberduck writes: "About the war: Bush didn't gather the intelligence himself, the other government groups did."
Straw man. Bush repeatedly cherrypicked the data that supported his claim, ignoring and rejecting the reams of data that flatly refuted the claims and dismissing (Shinseki) or in some cases retaliating (Wilson/Plame) against those who publically disagreed with him.
Bush was told repeatedly that the Niger claim was bunk. He used it anyway.
Bush was told repeatedly that the so-called mobile weapons labs couldn't possibly be used for manufacture of chemicals.
Bush was told that Curveball was a known liar and anything that came out of his mouth was suspect and yet we based the entire claim of WMD on his say-so.
"Even in the upcoming elections, just because you hate Bush and the republicans (far right or not), don't vote Dem simply in spite, vote on the person, not the party."
The Republicans are facing a slaughter in November because they, almost without exception, supported Bush in this war. How many 5-star generals have come out and said this war has been mismanaged?
I could talk about Hailiburton, I could bring up the lack of troops, I could bring up the claim that this war would cost us ...what was the claim? $150 MILLION?
In fact it's much shorter for you to explain to us what Bush did correctly in the last six years.
Wait, I take that back. LET'S talk about the failures.
Didn't bother to build a legitimate coalition. Poorly armored humvees. Ignoring the plans of the Army War College. The aforementioned refusal to acknolwedge the overwhelming evidence that there were no WMD. Said our troops would be greeted as liberators. Told us Iraq would pay for the war. Trusted Chalabi. Threw UN inspectors out of Iraq while they were still doing their jobs (and subsequently claimed that Saddam threw them out). OVER AND OVER AGAIN, linked Saddam to 9/11.
Wait, I'm not done.
"Mission accomplished" two years ago with our troops still dying every day. No-bid contracts for Haliburton, a company that has been found guilty of over-charging. No plan for the occupation of Iraq. Diverted $700 million into invasion planning without informing Congress.
Warrantless wiretapping. Opposed creation of the 9/11 commission. Ignored an August 6, 2001 PDB entitled "Bin laden Determined to Attack in U.S." Completely ignored repeated Clinton staff warnings that al Queda would need to be Bush's #1 priority. Cut FBI funds by 66% post-9/11.
Hold on, there's more.
His Middle East foreign policy (he doesn't have one) is now exploding in his face. Thinks democracy is good unless it elects Hugo Chávez, President of Venezuela, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran or Hamas in Palestine. Oops.
On Bush's watch, North Korea -- a country that actually DOES present a threat to the world -- has a larger nuclear weapons capability than 6 years ago, shows no signs of abating and Bush still refuses to change his tactics toward Kim Jong Il.
Dude, how much longer do I have to go on? There's plenty more...
Bush claimed he'd make 1.8 million new jobs by the end of 2003 and 5.5 million new jobs by 2004. IIRC he's up to about 200,000 new jobs created. He's racked up $8 TRILLION in debt. So much for fiscal conservatism. But he's passed tax cuts that are helping the very rich so...
Underfunded No Child Left Behind. It's a joke. Said he'd increase Pell Grants while campaigning. Didn't. Under-funded a program to help disadvantaged kids by $7.2 billion.
Not only did I cherry-pick the larger mistakes from the list of Bush fuckups, I haven't even gotten to health care or the environment yet.
"And as far as stem cell research, we don't know *what* can be gathered, but we can only find out by *researching*. Personally, I'm glad he vetoed the bill."
It doesn't really matter. Come the November elections there will be enough Democrats to override the veto.
"And, everyone that supports the research, I can safely assume is Pro Choice, not Pro Life, correct?"
I'm pro-choice but I have two close friends who are extremely religious, pro-life and think that we should have federal funding of embryonic stem cells.
"Not a clean and direct connection, but close enough to put two and two together."
No, but it was fun watching you try.
"These embryos are being grown *specifically* to be harvested."
You mean these clumps of tissue with no nervous system? Those?
And, to answer you directly, you're wrong. The legislation that was vetoed only refers to lines that already exist. If we don't have this research, those cells will simply be discarded.
Your "culture of life" somehow sees more value in throwing them out then in using them to possibly save lives. This would be funny if it wasn't so ridiculous and tragic.
"So, continue to have your negative opinion on Bush"
Aw, crap. I need your permission?
"...don't support our troops (our SOLDIERS for christ's sake)..."
A conservative myth. I don't think I've ever heard a single one of my liberal friends say anything bad about the troops. Except for the ones being brought up on charges of murder and rape. And nobody has implied that they comprise anything but a fraction of the troops.
About 2/3rds of this country feel that the way to actually help the troops is to return them to their families. I know that's a crazy, crazy idea but...
"...and throw all your leftist ideas around, but I've hopefully balanced this board out a little bit with more than one party's opinion. "
Presenting an opinion and making a solid argument are two very different things.
splif
-------------------- First Grow: Ecuador -> LC -> HPoo/Straw -> Monotub Build a Do-It-Yourself Magnetic Stirrer in thirty minutes with no money.
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mellowrubberduck
NDE on 7/8/06


Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 241
Loc: Pennsylvania, USA
Last seen: 14 years, 4 months
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: splifner180]
#5882923 - 07/20/06 09:50 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm not exactly sure how you concluded that *Bush repeatedly cherrypicked the data that supported his claim* unless you were with him at his side during the time, and I know that I'm gonna stick with what I believe, and the same goes for you, but there's no way that the government is going to tell everything that goes on behind the scenes. Though my memory may not be good for five years back, I thought it was the democrats, also, that supported the idea of going in because of the WMD idea. And about the five star generals. It's quite easy to look back on things now and say what should have been done different, but with all the news I watched, I never saw a five star general on ANY major news station stating that we shouldn't butt our heads in. Sure, I never heard them support it firsthand, but if it was a real problem to avoid then we would have heard something. *The Republicans are facing a slaughter in November because they, almost without exception, supported Bush in this war. How many 5-star generals have come out and said this war has been mismanaged?* It was the majority that supported the war in the beginning, but due to the indecision of the democrats, most changed their opinions after time. I don't really blame them for changing sides though. Do you really believe that Saddam was better left off to destroy his own country, to rule over every aspect of his people's lives? Well shit, maybe he should still be the ruler. I think we should have taken him out of power. But after a couple years when we finally got him out, that's pretty much all we did. All we are doing now is fingering ourselves. That is one side I do agree on. Either we need to start accomplishing something instead of doing patrols, we need to get the fuck out. We don't need that many soldiers over there, because all we need are special forces to get the dirty work done. But to say that we shouldn't have been over there in the first place is a bit misguided. It's not the decision of war, it's the approach to war that I disagree with.
Also, you can take those statistics of Bush ignoring 9/11 warnings and do whatever you want with them, because we will never know what exactly happened. Even with the eventual formation of the commission, I never found anything important that they came up with.
*I could bring up the lack of troops* Lack of troops? The last time I heard (especially with my older brother in the Marines) we had all the troops we needed. There's no reason to have a draft for a situation like this (Bush wouldn't enstate a draft though), so the *lack of troops* is obsurd. Even the funding that Bush proposed to provide the soldiers armor, supplies, anything else imperative, the Democrats on the whole voted against it, so any funding that Bush wanted couldn't be supplied. Neither side is perfect, stop trying to make the Rep. side evil and the Dem. side heavenly.
*Bush claimed he'd make 1.8 million new jobs by the end of 2003 and 5.5 million new jobs by 2004. IIRC he's up to about 200,000 new jobs created. He's racked up $8 TRILLION in debt. So much for fiscal conservatism. But he's passed tax cuts that are helping the very rich so...* The debt is attributed to the fucking war. Yea it's a shitload of money that could've been controlled if we finally cleaned up what we went in to do, but he didn't accumulate the debt by his own spending habits. I know nothing about the creation of jobs, but I do know that our economy has seen better days. Tax cuts were created for the rich because people with that much money are the heads of big business. If these guys aren't spending as much on taxes, theoretically they'll put the money back into their business. That might not make much sense and even I sometimes find it hard to understand, but it is starting to bring the deficit down, as slow as it might be.
*Ignoring the plans of the Army War College. The aforementioned refusal to acknolwedge the overwhelming evidence that there were no WMD. Said our troops would be greeted as liberators. Told us Iraq would pay for the war. Trusted Chalabi. Threw UN inspectors out of Iraq while they were still doing their jobs (and subsequently claimed that Saddam threw them out). OVER AND OVER AGAIN, linked Saddam to 9/11.* Eventually after some time he should've gotten off the fact that there were no WMDs, but maybe that was just an excuse so we wouldn't have to pull out right away. Not saying I agree, but I wouldn't be able to think of another way to stay over. Other than that, I couldn't agree more with that statement.
**Mission accomplished* two years ago with our troops still dying every day.* Already covered that. Didn't hear about the other things in that paragraph.
*I'm pro-choice but I have two close friends who are extremely religious, pro-life and think that we should have federal funding of embryonic stem cells. No, but it was fun watching you try.*
That's good to hear. And I suppose you didn't try to think about what I was saying because you're too caught up in your hogwash. Pro-Choice people believe (and deny it if you want but it's obvious to figure out why) that it's alright to choose to abort a baby because they're not really living. With this idea, and the connection I made that you chose not to see, the assumption can be made that Pro-Choice people believe it's alright to take these stem cells and put them under a microscope because they're not really living. It's surprising to hear that your religious pals think that they're not really living, but I suppose it's all a matter of opinion and relies less on morals (or whatever else you want to call it). If you really don't believe in something but say it anyway, I guess it's easier to be running with the mob instead of opposing them (the outstanding numbers that hate Bush is overwhelming), and maybe I'm just sick of hearing people say the same thing over and over.
*Your *culture of life* somehow sees more value in throwing them out then in using them to possibly save lives.* There would be no need to throw them out if they weren't meant for harvesting. They would actually become something, not a science experiment with no guaranteed results (exactly what you claim you wanted to see with the WAR).
*Underfunded No Child Left Behind. It's a joke. Said he'd increase Pell Grants while campaigning. Didn't. Under-funded a program to help disadvantaged kids by $7.2 billion.* I don't know much about the program, but I do have an opinion from what I've heard. Supposedly the school system was going to get all the funding they needed to make sure kids learn and even if they didn't learn they would still be passed to the next grade. Most everybody up to this point in time that went through school learned what they were supposed to, and if not, they got no reward. I believe that's a better system, not rewarding kids for being lazy fuck-ups. It should go onto the parents' shoulders to raise their kids to do their work, not on the government. So, I don't agree with the program and am actually glad it was underfunded.
*Aw, crap. I need your permission?* Not with that sarcastic piss poor attitude you don't.
*A conservative myth. I don't think I've ever heard a single one of my liberal friends say anything bad about the troops. Except for the ones being brought up on charges of murder and rape. And nobody has implied that they comprise anything but a fraction of the troops.* I guess I just live in a shitty state. Everybody that I know buys into all the media bias and takes their opinion as their own. Everytime I ask these guys why they say what they say, they just mimick what the reporter's say. Because two soldiers go absolutely crazy and rape and execute civilians doesn't for a second mean that all soldiers are like that. But because the news is passing that information along like they are, it's absorbed by these lonely souls. I'm glad to hear that you don't think like that, but in this state, if you don't think like that, you're the *freak* who deserves no opinion.
*Presenting an opinion and making a solid argument are two very different things.* It's too bad I don't get to hear your arrogance more often.
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Blutjager
Inhuman


Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 9,220
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: mellowrubberduck]
#5882994 - 07/20/06 10:16 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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gdman
badger, badger,badger...


Registered: 12/10/02
Posts: 16,286
Loc: Dancing In the Streets
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: Blutjager]
#5883064 - 07/20/06 10:34 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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The frozen embryos in question are from fertility clinics, having nothing to do with stem cell research, after being held for a certain length of time they get discarded as medical waste. The bill was for funding research on these cells that are destined for the dump, in order to possibly make something useful out of the cells, as opposed to just turning them into medical waste. This was why there was so much support for the bill, from choicers and lifers alike. If these embryos were going to be made into something good, like say a child, they would have before this point. Now nothing good will come out of them, just more trash.
What about the existing lines you say? Well, if those lines were in good enough condition and in a large enough supply for real research to take place, this wouldn't be an issue, would it?
--------------------
Got a question about a substance? Erowid might already have your answer! Have questions about the mushroom experience? The Tripper's FAQ may have your answer or someone else might have had your question before. I know up on the top you are seeing great sights, but down at the bottom we, too, should have rights. - Theodor Seuss Geisel Dr. Suess "I didn't come here to be easily understood" - Steve
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kake
The answer to1984 is 1776.



Registered: 05/06/99
Posts: 2,782
Loc: The 66th harmonic
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: gdman]
#5890715 - 07/23/06 02:15 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Exactly gdman. I think its just Bush's way of seizing an opportunity to appease his constituents... in other words he vetoed the bill because most people are so uninformed about the issue that he can do it and all the outcry will fall into the Bush-hate pool that people tend to "auto-ignore" (like our friend mellowduck). Sure the embryos are going to go to waste anyway, but I guess that's too much information for the general public to take in 
Bush has turned our country into a nightmare, through and through. Don't turn a cheek because so many people hate Bush and you think its only because its some sort of popular psyche phenomenon.
LIARS. CRIMINALS. MURDERERS.
-------------------- The answer to 1984 is 1776.
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: KingOftheThing]
#5890737 - 07/23/06 02:19 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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dude, I AM Jesus, and I'm all for stem cell research.
so BLAM!
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905
Stranger

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 790
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Re: derr i'm bush i love jesus, gonna veto stem cell bill derrrrr [Re: DoctorJ]
#5890782 - 07/23/06 02:27 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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My aunt had cancer so they removed her own stem cells. Then the radiated and chemo'd the fuck out of her killing her entire immune system.then they put her stem cells back and she grew a new immune system.Now she has lost all antibodies and is open season for the little germs & viruses.
I now going anywhere near the embryo topic.
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