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Offlinemichael_lifshitz
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What it really is all about.
    #5875678 - 07/18/06 10:23 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I think this is the most important thing to establish in one's philosophy, a goal, or lack of goal, or whatever, but something that gives the philosophy a purpose.

For example, I have often thought that a primary goal or direction to take life in was happiness. This now though, seems a little empty. Happiness is only so important without a plethora of other things.

A better thing to strive towards, I think, is ridding yourself of suffering. But why? Why does it matter if I suffer? What is the difference? Suffering in itself is a human ideal, so it seems to me that really there is no suffering, just existing.

Sometimes, I get in periods where I think, and become slightly depressed about the fact that I really don't know what I want out of life. I do always come back to a couple of main ideals which I go with, because I feel they are important, like happiness, and a quest for bettering my person and losing self importance etc. But in the end, it really doesn't matter.

It seems that something I should work on figuring out, is what I want, or if I decide that really there is nothing I should want, and all I want is to just be and be happy about being and be aware and vibrant and alive, which is where I stand now, then I want to have that firmly anchored in my mind, and I want to truly believe it, and have no doubt of the direction I want to take my life.

I don't want to sound as though I am saying that one needs a goal, I am just saying one needs to know what they are doing, at each moment, and why, I believe. Sometimes I get a little bit confused.

What do you all think about this?


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Offlinecapliberty
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Re: What it really is all about. [Re: michael_lifshitz]
    #5875934 - 07/18/06 11:33 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

philosphy is pointless without a goal

which a lot of these posters on this forum don't understand

they just want to discuss various random topics, there is some instrinsic value in it

but I think it more effective if you give it a common theme or front that identifies to u a sense of purpose

unless I guess its just about entainment value, which is one reason I post

the tough thing about it is sticking with a certain direction, we often fall back into our normal habits, it takes alot ambition to apply yourself...


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: What it really is all about. [Re: michael_lifshitz]
    #5876019 - 07/18/06 11:48 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

My goal is: To learn.

About: Life, the universe and everything.

Why: Why not?

How: Experience

When: NOW


....

Thats what I can come up with in this moment. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to think about it.


--------------------
HELP!!!!!!!!!


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Offlinehot48yearolds
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Re: What it really is all about. [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5876083 - 07/19/06 12:02 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Help all sentient beings


--------------------
"Truth is more in the process than in the result."
- J. Krishnamurti




"We ourselves are not an illusory part of Reality; rather are we Reality itself illusorily conceived." Wei Wu Wei


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: What it really is all about. [Re: hot48yearolds]
    #5876476 - 07/19/06 03:44 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

it gets pretty hot doing the re-evaluation thing all the time
so it makes sense just to sit sometimes and chill.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:đź§   _ :finger:


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: What it really is all about. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #5878576 - 07/19/06 05:47 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

were gonna get some satisfaction....
Were gonna find out what it is all about....
after midnight, were gonna let it all hang down....


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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OfflineDroz
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Re: What it really is all about. [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #5881448 - 07/20/06 01:33 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

New thoughts, new ideals. Many things can come from a discussion in a philosophical and spiritual web board. When you pick up something new there is always time applying it to yourself and in your experiences, if it applies.


--------------------
Evolution of Time.


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OfflineLion
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Re: What it really is all about. [Re: Droz]
    #5881489 - 07/20/06 01:48 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I think the question we really need to address is, Are goals spiritual?


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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Offlinemichael_lifshitz
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Re: What it really is all about. [Re: Lion]
    #5883129 - 07/20/06 10:57 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Im surprised people don't have more to say about this. It seems to me to be of utmost importance.


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Offlinecapliberty
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Re: What it really is all about. [Re: michael_lifshitz]
    #5883343 - 07/21/06 12:20 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

doesn't it suck that people do feel the importance of your threads, like you do,

Most people don't care about goals, they'd rather go along with the ebb and flow with life and allow the wind to blow them were ever it leads them,


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Invisibleit stars saddam
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Re: What it really is all about. [Re: capliberty]
    #5883363 - 07/21/06 12:30 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

capliberty said:
Most people don't care about goals, they'd rather go along with the ebb and flow with life and allow the wind to blow them were ever it leads them,




Isn't setting goals also part of "the ebb and flow of life?"


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Offlinecapliberty
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Re: What it really is all about. [Re: it stars saddam]
    #5883439 - 07/21/06 01:14 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

itstarssaddam said:
Quote:

capliberty said:
Most people don't care about goals, they'd rather go along with the ebb and flow with life and allow the wind to blow them were ever it leads them,




Isn't setting goals also part of "the ebb and flow of life?"




yeah it is, but usually setting goals implys in assuming more control of that ebb and flow, to a more direct path, and more desirable outcome,

but its hard to sometimes stick with these goals, and they can be detrimental to some degree, that you might not realize that there is something else more important, which confusion can neutralize a persons motivation, making them less comitted towards their goals, which makes the the outline of goals more irrelevant, the process can get so confusing that people dismiss the notion of having goals, and they usually question whether goals have any point to life, sense none of theirs have been obtained

I say sometimes it depends, sometimes you need to outline a plan and sometimes you need to just live it sponteously,

what do u need? how are u going to get their? can you execute? is it realistic? is this the right time?

I'd say people have outlined and executed plans, and directly make their reality unfold as they dictate

Others have problems in believing in a certain direction, I think some people are inclined to a more carefree life, because they have no clear cut interests or they don't have the confidence or sometype of factor, maybe its culture, and its not important to be that objective in life, really in way it shouldn't be, we should all do what we want IMO, but the constraints of the world and system forces us to have goals that are less inspiring,


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Offlinemichael_lifshitz
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Re: What it really is all about. [Re: capliberty]
    #5883453 - 07/21/06 01:25 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Well I am not talking about goals, as I previously mentioned, but more along the lines of direction.

I was thinking today, and I believe I've come up with a fairly good way of thinking about a direction.

Experience.

Simple to experience all the wonders out there to experience.

I figure that everything is, anyways, with or without us, consious beings. Having said that, it seems to me that really just that ability to be alive and experience is good enough.

However, the more I think of it the more it seems that maybe there just is no direction that makes more sense, and everything just is, and maybe in the end we have to stop looking for a direction and just be. Though it is hard to decide what to be.

For example, let's take an enlightened being, some sort of Buddha. What would motivate this buddha to action? Why would this buddha help people, or do anything? This is what I don't understand.


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Offlinecapliberty
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Re: What it really is all about. [Re: michael_lifshitz]
    #5883590 - 07/21/06 03:09 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I think in a way the Buddha isn't all enlightened, I mean many Buddhas seem to have no purpose really but their own self centered aspirations of enlightment, they meditate and end their own notions of suffering but you look at it from the outside prospective, they don't do anything, but walk around in robes and exist,

maybe to impart wisdom is there great contribution, but I see a soldier or someone more engaged into a purpose as being noble, because requires sacrifice and engagment, then acting all quaint and tranquil, meandering through a simple existence, I don't know, I'm not totally against it either, but I don't think it be good if everybody was budhist


Edited by capliberty (07/21/06 03:11 AM)


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OfflineAkamatsu
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Re: What it really is all about. [Re: michael_lifshitz]
    #5883617 - 07/21/06 03:42 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

It's something I've been thinking about a lot lately, and this was the conclusion I came to:


Life is far too complex and dynamic to be represented with a few static desires or goals. There is no need to label, try to simplify, or find purpose in everything. Attempting to do so is an impossible task. The only thing that's important is the present, whatever that may involve.


I'm not sure if that really conveys my ideas, and they might not even apply to your situation. 'Buddhism, plain and simple' by Steve Hagen was fairly inspirational, as was 'Tao Te Ching' by Lao-Tzu. Maybe you could find your own answers there.


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Offlinemichael_lifshitz
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Re: What it really is all about. [Re: Akamatsu]
    #5884015 - 07/21/06 10:20 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Thank you very mcuh Akamatsu, I think our ideas now are fairly similar.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: What it really is all about. [Re: capliberty]
    #5884279 - 07/21/06 12:11 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Others have problems in believing in a certain direction, I think some people are inclined to a more carefree life, because they have no clear cut interests or they don't have the confidence or sometype of factor, maybe its culture, and its not important to be that objective in life, really in way it shouldn't be, we should all do what we want IMO, but the constraints of the world and system forces us to have goals that are less inspiring,



What constraints of the world are "forcing" you to have less inspiring goals? The whole point of goals is the inspiration of the dream which is the catalyst to overcome one's current reality. If one feels constrained, then how can one grow. Remove those handcuffs and start writing your goals. Anything less than written goals is useless. Keep track of the steps you have taken in writing. Review your progress and modify the goals on an ongoing basis.

It's all work. Are you up to it?


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: What it really is all about. [Re: michael_lifshitz]
    #5886753 - 07/22/06 05:36 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

michael_lifshitz said:
I think this is the most important thing to establish in one's philosophy, a goal, or lack of goal, or whatever, but something that gives the philosophy a purpose.




The best purpose that a philosophy can have is the direct perception of reality. One's philosophy will thus begin to truly represent reality as a result. Philosophy is only pertinent when it is based in observation of reality and application within it - that is the purpose and goal of philosophy. :wink:

Quote:


For example, I have often thought that a primary goal or direction to take life in was happiness. This now though, seems a little empty. Happiness is only so important without a plethora of other things.




Happiness shouldn't be a goal or direction, but a constant state in which one experiences. One should be emotionally fufilled regardless of the circumstances in one's life situation. Everything is empty, which is why we imply our own meaning. Its our choice.

Quote:


A better thing to strive towards, I think, is ridding yourself of suffering. But why? Why does it matter if I suffer? What is the difference? Suffering in itself is a human ideal, so it seems to me that really there is no suffering, just existing.




There is existing, and there is suffering as an aspect of that existance. What is the difference between suffering and not suffering? When one suffers, one is refusing to accept reality as it has been presented. That is the difference, suffering is the denial of reality. Why strive to accept reality? Because then one is more aware of reality, one begins to better understand reality, which means that one aquires more meaning and purpose, and one becomes more able to act as a catalyst of change.

Quote:


Sometimes, I get in periods where I think, and become slightly depressed about the fact that I really don't know what I want out of life.




Then simply engage in the situation you are in now, assume a role of impartial observer while carrying out the behavior you are already trending, and find out. Become aware of who you are and what life is by simply becoming aware of the present moment in which you are is defined and in which life exists - one will naturally perceive a sense of who one is, where one is, and will then be able to flow with that which one wants to experience in life. :wink:

Quote:


I do always come back to a couple of main ideals which I go with, because I feel they are important, like happiness, and a quest for bettering my person and losing self importance etc. But in the end, it really doesn't matter.




The end is an abstract sense of what might eventually be present in the here and now moment. It is preconceived, and, as such, could not begin to represent the reality of its eventual occurence. The mind cannot define moments or provide the sensory data of the moment. Do not allow a mental identity that wishes to preserve itself to undermine opportunties for one's growth and evolution by continuing the illusion of past and future. Memories of the path and imaginations of the future are all this identity has to support itself, and it utilizes one's awareness in the moment to power itself - thus obstructing and limiting one's perceptions of life as it occurs.

Bring awareness within onself, in this moment. That is all it takes, and one will naturally change as a result, for the better, as the obstructions that prevent such change will simply dissolve. One can just perceive one's sensory data and be provided with the oppurtunity to increase awareness, thus live life more. :wink:

Quote:


It seems that something I should work on figuring out, is what I want, or if I decide that really there is nothing I should want, and all I want is to just be and be happy about being and be aware and vibrant and alive, which is where I stand now, then I want to have that firmly  anchored in my mind, and I want to truly believe it, and have no doubt of the direction I want to take my life.




Ultimately, one's emotional state of being, one's experience of reality should not be limited or obstructed by specifics of one's life situation, but, in centering in one's state of being, as you have described, one is free to choose the aspects of one's life situation that one wishes to concern themselves with. One becomes free to choose and to experience what one prefers. Bring balance within one's mind and center in one's being, and then naturally flow with one's preferences. One will be fufilled and will enter a constant state of fufillment. :cool:

Quote:


I don't want to sound as though I am saying that one needs a goal, I am just saying one needs to know what they are doing, at each moment, and why, I believe. Sometimes I get a little bit confused.




One does not need to analytically know what they are doing in each moment in order to fully experience the act in the moment, or to be able to act in the moment, but surely, being aware of all aspects of the present moment is surely beneficial. I've had moments, especially ones that result from mixing acids and bases, so to speak, (:smirk:), in which I have been totally immersed in the direct experience of my interaction with my environment, and, for moments, was not operating with any real, conscious sense of identity.. it was simply perception at its purest, which means mentally defined identity was not obstructing my experience - it means I was directly experiencing being the self.

The amazing thing is that one can consciously work with one's mind to limit the obstructions of one's direct perceptions. The more discipline you bring into it, the more one is able to enter a state that precedes the conscious mind, and yet still experience life on a deeper, more involved level. For instance, this lit plum blossom candle in its glass jar is incredibly beautiful right now. :mushroom2: All of my expectations as far as providing for my existance are, in this moment, fufilled, and all that matters is the experience of perceiving that candle. It is different, at work, when I am more concerned about ensuring that I am in-stock with this specific candle, and that the salesfloor is zoned and presentable, to further ensure that someone will buy this candle... and yet, at the same time, I can still enjoy the aesthetic qualities of the zoned up candle aisle, completely in-stock, an impressive wall of color that will perhaps draw some eyes from the high-traffic Electronics department acrossed the action alley, and the act of zoning it up, and the act of stocking it, and the act of ordering it and researching its information.... :mushroom2:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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