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Offlinerelativexistance
"beads, bees!?!?beads ....BEADS!!!"
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Registered: 01/08/04
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stem cell bill
    #5875335 - 07/18/06 09:08 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

bush is supposed to veto it despite it being passed 63-37 in the senate and having a nationwide 70% approval rating. even the governator is pleading for him to not stifle this potentially great advancement for science and medicine. honestly he is the biggest hypocritical piece of garbage, his reasoning according to white house spokesman, "The simple answer is he thinks murder's wrong," hahaha that is the biggest joke, try and tell me he wasnt basically pulling the lever on the electric chair when he was the governor of texas. sorry if this is highly biased, ranting and been in the news alot, i am just pissed and wonder what others think about it.

http://apnews.excite.com/article/20060719/D8IUOR880.html

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Invisiblequiver
freedrug
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Registered: 10/25/05
Posts: 8,047
Re: stem cell bill [Re: relativexistance]
    #5875756 - 07/18/06 10:41 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

yeah,i agree that that kinda shit is wrong,if its voted 'for or against',he should go with the votes
thats what i hate about all politicians


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Invisibledownforpot
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Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 5,715
Re: stem cell bill [Re: relativexistance]
    #5876202 - 07/19/06 12:42 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

relativexistance said:
bush is supposed to veto it despite it being passed 63-37 in the senate and having a nationwide 70% approval rating. even the governator is pleading for him to not stifle this potentially great advancement for science and medicine. honestly he is the biggest hypocritical piece of garbage, his reasoning according to white house spokesman, "The simple answer is he thinks murder's wrong," hahaha that is the biggest joke, try and tell me he wasnt basically pulling the lever on the electric chair when he was the governor of texas. sorry if this is highly biased, ranting and been in the news alot, i am just pissed and wonder what others think about it.

http://apnews.excite.com/article/20060719/D8IUOR880.html




The only reason he is going to veto it is because of the right wing Christian groups hat have been bitching about "morality" ever since he was elected.


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"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"

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Invisiblebukkake
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Registered: 05/28/05
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Loc: Classified
Re: stem cell bill [Re: downforpot]
    #5876795 - 07/19/06 06:43 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

The only reason he will veto is because he is an idiot. This may be a good thing, though. Perhaps Republicans not romanced by religion and oil will take over the party.

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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Registered: 10/31/04
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Re: stem cell bill [Re: relativexistance]
    #5876968 - 07/19/06 08:47 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

What I find interesting is that the stem cell bill will be GWB's FIRST veto in over 5 years of ALL of those spending bills and pork. You would hope that a "fiscal conservative" would have found at least something to veto based on reducing the debt.

The stem cell research veto will hurt his ratings numbers but I don't think he cares much at this point. As for my personal feelings on stem cell research, I am personally sick of all the political bullshit on both sides. I don't consider it murder but have doubts that stem cell research is a cure all that the "other side" of the debate touts.

I have had some personal exposure to stem cell research and the NIH is willing to take a terminal cancer patient and run massive horrible testing on that person in the name of "stem cell research" when the actual procedures are every chemo, radiation, or drug they care to try. It's disgusting, and then to have them try to involve me personally with the invasion of my body without any informed consent and with the very real possibility of future damage to me with no recourse by them, it gets plain illegal. Of course they tout the possibility of success with the zeal of used car salesmen, but when the reality is that the "research" has a 0.1% chance of therapeutic value for the patient, yet 100% chance of horrible discomfort along with a 40% mortality rate, that's not cool. Don't believe the press that stem cell research will solve solid tumor cancer, etc. etc. It is not a panacea. It is just "research", more money spent mostly by the government to researcher in search of grant money and who will do whatever it takes to get that money. Including give people false hope and misery in the name of "research".

Edited by LunarEclipse (07/19/06 09:52 AM)

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InvisibleBuddha5254
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Registered: 04/22/00
Posts: 532
Re: stem cell bill [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #5877121 - 07/19/06 10:11 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Ive got an idea! If you want stem cell research you pay the taxes for it, and if you dont like stem cell research you can opt out. But here is the catch, when all of the life-saving and life-extending treatments come out YOU CANT USE THEM! How about that? Seems fair to me!

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InvisibleGijith
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Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
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Re: stem cell bill [Re: relativexistance]
    #5877843 - 07/19/06 01:41 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Disgraceful. Bush can't sell himself as any sort of financial conservative. So I don't know how he's selling this colossal fuck up. There goes a lot of patent money.


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what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?

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OfflineBasilides
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Registered: 02/10/06
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Re: stem cell bill [Re: relativexistance]
    #5877864 - 07/19/06 01:44 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I saw the news conference. They had like a dozen toddlers and kids there who were born from frozen stem cells as political props. While Bush is ranting about esoteric life Asian countries are several steps ahead in this field of science.


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"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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InvisibleHank, FTW
Looking for the Answer

Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 3,912
Re: stem cell bill [Re: Basilides]
    #5877897 - 07/19/06 01:53 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Bush is useless on all of his policy. His most ridiculous claim has to do with illegal immigration. Tell me how the US can stop N. Koreans with the 5th largest military in the world from taking S Korea. But he can't keep out some unarmed civilians from crossing into his country?

Bush is the anti Christ. I say let the stem cell research go on, abortion is allowed FFS.


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Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:

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OfflineBasilides
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Re: stem cell bill [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #5877916 - 07/19/06 01:56 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

The illegal immigration problem in the U.S. is decades old, it's just getting alot of attention right now because conservatives are running out of political capital.


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"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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Invisibleshithead
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Registered: 07/18/06
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Re: stem cell bill [Re: relativexistance]
    #5877932 - 07/19/06 02:01 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I really hope it passes, one way or another.
There are a lot of people who really could benefit
from the research.


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I just have names.
shit has been way busy, names have been flying out the door. No time for special name shit.

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OfflineSaucerfulofmoon
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Registered: 07/17/06
Posts: 116
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
Re: stem cell bill [Re: shithead]
    #5877943 - 07/19/06 02:06 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Bush has hit rock bottom....I cant wait for him to GTFO. This could change life for the better, and any retard standing infront of its way [Bush/Christians/David Banner] need to be eliminated.

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OfflineRosettaStoned
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Registered: 05/29/06
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Last seen: 16 years, 2 months
Re: stem cell bill [Re: Saucerfulofmoon]
    #5878006 - 07/19/06 02:22 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I think this is pure games, they introduced that bill just so bush could use a veto.


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"Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa

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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: stem cell bill [Re: Buddha5254]
    #5878030 - 07/19/06 02:27 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

when all of the life-saving and life-extending treatments

Are you basing your "hope" on what the popular press tells you or on what the reality of the low possibilities of success for stem cell research in certain areas like solid tumor cancer?

Did you believe the South Korean stem cell researcher before his "miraculous research results" were found to be a complete fraud?

Optimism is one thing, but reality quite another. I have first hand knowledge and experience with the reality of stem cell research and how they try to get their guinea pigs, you do not. I have read one of their "stem cell research" protocol that involved various potent chemotherapy treatments etc. completely unrelated to the use of stem cells, with virtually zero chance of therapeutic result for the patient but with a 40% mortality rate (as in dead) FROM THE TESTING that they didn't want to divulge. In fact, I only saw the real procedure(s) and mortality rate by getting it second hand from someone else who they were also attempting to railroad without proper informed consent. Does that seem fair to you?


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Anxiety is what you make it.

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OfflineRogerRabbitV
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Re: stem cell bill [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #5878276 - 07/19/06 03:56 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I find it interesting that the so-called 'religious right' who are against stem cell research celebrate their children's birthdays. Wouldn't it be much more appropriate to celebrate fuck day? Oops, I meant to say conception day.

Next will be a bill before congress to start counting a person's age from conception, rather than birth. No wait. . .That would mean they qualify for social security sooner. . .can't have that.

Perhaps they'll outlaw jacking off by declaring that the wasted sperm was a child. Oh, we also must stop these godless women from having periods. Every time they have a period, out pukes an egg that was intended by god to be a child. No wait, that won't work since the Bible clearly tells us the 'seed' comes from the man, and the woman only provides the womb for it to grow.

Today, Bush called a frozen embryo on a Petri dish a 'child'. I guess it's not much of a stretch from there to call an egg or a wad of jizz a 'child' now is it?

The important thing to remember, whenever they're changing the subject to talk about the pledge of allegiance, abortion, activist judges, stem cell research, baseball players using steroids, etc., they silence debate on the real issues, such as 50 million people losing health insurance in the last five and a half years, an illegal and immoral war that has turned secular Iraq into a hotbed of Islamic fanaticism and terrorism, gas prices that have tripled since bush took office. . .blah blah blah. . .
RR


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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
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OfflineCatalysis
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Registered: 04/23/02
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Re: stem cell bill [Re: relativexistance]
    #5878302 - 07/19/06 04:16 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I am not against embryonic stem-cell research but you need to keep in mind that scientists are waging this fight for money and not to cure people. Its standard practice in science to make claims about the future possibilities and uses of your research, which are sometimes a bit exaggerated for funding purposes. I just think its gone a little out of control here.

With really no cure for anything currently being developed from ESCs anywhere in the world, it is quite premature to claim that this research could cure all of mankind's most serious diseases.

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Offlinerelativexistance
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Re: stem cell bill [Re: Catalysis]
    #5878562 - 07/19/06 05:42 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

i think there will be alot more money to be divided up when the research yields something. thats what they want, the research money is more to get the science/data/products off the ground. actually if you are interested in the profit vs. public good aspect of this topic you might be more interested in this article.

http://apnews.excite.com/article/20060719/D8IVA6Q8C.html

It's a topic about stem cell patents. They claim "These patents are impeding our research," Loring said. "They are more important than what is going on in the Senate right now. They are making scientists go overseas."

I dont know how I feel about that one though as the patents on research seem viable to me even though the research can apply to a social good.

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Invisiblenewuser1492
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Re: stem cell bill [Re: relativexistance]
    #5878616 - 07/19/06 05:59 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I think this quote sums up his position.

"This bill would support the taking of innocent human life in the hope of finding medical benefits for others," Bush said in announcing his veto. "It crosses a moral boundary that our decent society needs to respect."

Instead of basing his decision on fiscal conservation as he should he bases it on his belief that his sense of morality should be forced on the masses.

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OfflineRogerRabbitV
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Re: stem cell bill [Re: relativexistance]
    #5878625 - 07/19/06 06:03 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Bear in mind, the bill Bush vetoed has nothing to do with whether the research is valid or whether or not it's for the money or saving lives. He vetoed the bill to play puppet to the christian right wing, while having absolutely no problem killing innocent living and breathing children with indiscriminate bombing of villages in Iraq and Lebanon, but somehow pretends to believe a frozen blob on a petri dish in a laboratory is an actual human being. It's about pandering to his base, not medicine or ethics.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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Offlinerelativexistance
"beads, bees!?!?beads ....BEADS!!!"
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Re: stem cell bill [Re: newuser1492]
    #5878635 - 07/19/06 06:08 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

ahhhh that pisses me off so much. we need another president who says things like this

"I am not the Catholic candidate for President. I am the Democratic Party's candidate for President who also happens to be a Catholic. I do not speak for my Church on public matters—and the Church does not speak for me."

quote jfk. funny how jfk's religious background was such a problem issue back then and how bush uses the religion card to benefit him.

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