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0003
squirtforfunandprofit


Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 104
Loc: new orleans
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
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glove box arm holes
#5874170 - 07/18/06 04:46 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I have a still air glove box with toilet flanges for arm holes. Is it necessary to seal the box to my arms with gloves or a gasket of some sort,or can I leave them open?
Edited by 0003 (07/18/06 04:48 PM)
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure


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Re: glove box arm holes [Re: 0003]
#5874266 - 07/18/06 05:17 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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You can leave them open, but it's best to have a tight fit. You don't want drafts. Be sure all fans, AC units, HEPA filters, etc., are turned off when you work. If you're going to leave it open, I suggest cutting smaller holes that just fit your arms. Be sure to wear a freshly laundered long sleeve shirt and latex gloves when you work. Don't stick your bare arms in there. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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0003
squirtforfunandprofit


Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 104
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Re: glove box arm holes [Re: RogerRabbit]
#5874370 - 07/18/06 05:48 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thanks Roger. What about the air displacement caused by moving my arms in and out of the holes? No one ever mentions this. If I pull my arms out even slightly air has to rush in to fill the space which would create a current.
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nugjug
Wanderer

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Re: glove box arm holes [Re: 0003]
#5874378 - 07/18/06 05:50 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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My friend did his with open holes. I did mine with gloves attached. Neither of us have had problems. It is just sort of situation pending. If you live in a pile of filth you might want to seal off those holes. If you don't then leaving open holes and putting on rubber gloves cleaned with alcohol or hand sanitizer should be just fine. Or as is my understanding which is subject to be wrong.
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Cubenisseur
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Re: glove box arm holes [Re: nugjug]
#5874413 - 07/18/06 06:02 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Be sure to wear a freshly laundered long sleeve shirt and latex gloves when you work. Don't stick your bare arms in there.
Wouldn't clean bare skin be less likely to hold contams than a shirt(cloth)?
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Omnicracker
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Re: glove box arm holes [Re: Cubenisseur]
#5874420 - 07/18/06 06:04 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Wouldn't clean bare skin be less likely to hold contams than a shirt(cloth)?
some of us only have bear skin....
Edited by Omnicracker (07/18/06 06:05 PM)
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hyphae
born to grow


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Re: glove box arm holes [Re: Omnicracker]
#5874621 - 07/18/06 06:52 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Wash your arms with antibacterial soap and scrub for a minimum of two minutes up to your elbows were gloves and you'll be good to go. Believe me you can clean your arms much better than any laundered shirt will ever be. When learning to use a GB properly remember practice on smooth but swift methodial movements, don't uncover anything all the way unless there is no choice, there is an art to a good sterile culture technique it just doesn't happen and for those who like to argue I'm talking consistantly. GL
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy. Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is Gas Exchange vs. FAE "We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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RogerRabbit
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Re: glove box arm holes [Re: 0003]
#5874629 - 07/18/06 06:54 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
0003 said: Thanks Roger. What about the air displacement caused by moving my arms in and out of the holes? . . .If I pull my arms out even slightly air has to rush in to fill the space which would create a current.
Correct. Don't pull your arms in or out while you have a jar or petri dish open.
Quote:
Cubenisseur said: Wouldn't clean bare skin be less likely to hold contams than a shirt(cloth)?
No. The freshly laundered shirt will not have several thousand dead skin cells per hour flaking off. Always wear freshly cleaned long sleeved clothing when doing sterile work. Never work naked. In years past we were advised to shower, then work naked. That's been proved to be bad advice. We must protect our projects from ourselves, the number one vector of contamination. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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RogerRabbit
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Re: glove box arm holes [Re: hyphae]
#5874691 - 07/18/06 07:04 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
hyphae said: Believe me you can clean your arms much better than any laundered shirt will ever be.
I agree 100% with everything else you said but that. Sorry. Surgeons don't operate with bare arms or anything else. Everything is covered. You can never clean your arms as clean as a freshly washed shirt. As soon as you get done with the antibacterial soap, more skin cells will flake off and if they get in your grain jar or petri dish, you will get bacterial contamination.
Remember, we can't PC or flame sterilize our arms, and we'd never just wash a scalpel or needle. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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hyphae
born to grow


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Re: glove box arm holes [Re: RogerRabbit]
#5874909 - 07/18/06 07:44 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well I have done quite a few transfers bare armed with excellent results (no contams) but I have done many more wearing tyvek sleeves with elastic wrists that seal around my gloved hands, this is protocol whenever working with valuable prized cultures for me. Freshly laundered clothing whether dried in a drier or lined dry will have plenty of spores in the fibers unless of course you PC it. IMHO wearing long sleeves (non-tyvek) is like doing transfers on the carpet, ok maybe not that bad but I don't advise it at all. A nice tight knit cotton long sleeve I'm sure would work just fine also.
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy. Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is Gas Exchange vs. FAE "We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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fastfred
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Re: glove box arm holes [Re: hyphae]
#5875378 - 07/18/06 09:19 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I tend to agree with bare arms over long sleeves. Dryers blow a lot of unfiltered air through clothing, almost guaranteeing a huge sporeload in them. Sleeves can also brush against things and drop fibers (loaded with contams) on your stuff.
> You can never clean your arms as clean as a freshly washed shirt.
Sure you can. Clothing sheds fibers as fast as skin cells. Those fibers are loaded with bacteria and other contams. Clean skin cells aren't going to just start colonizing your cultures, whereas clothing fibers (or rather the contams on them) will.
I just spray my gloved hands (and sometimes arms) down with lysol. The EtOH kills any contams and the lysol also leaves a residue that will keep your skin sterile for some time.
-FF
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Tippinthru
contented

Registered: 04/07/05
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Loc: "The Garden"...
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Re: glove box arm holes [Re: fastfred]
#5875427 - 07/18/06 09:27 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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 A pair of these, resolve the whole (hole) issue. 
5 minute search =
http://cgi.ebay.com/DRY-BOX-Black-Neopre...1QQcmdZViewItem
At a far better price than I paid retail.
-------------------- Perfection is attained by slow degrees; it requires the hand of time... [
Edited by Tippinthru (07/18/06 09:36 PM)
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Omnicracker
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Re: glove box arm holes [Re: Tippinthru]
#5875599 - 07/18/06 10:06 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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but do you have and dexterity in those gloves?
i feel like they would be awkward and hard to work in.
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Tippinthru
contented

Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 1,131
Loc: "The Garden"...
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Re: glove box arm holes [Re: Omnicracker]
#5875858 - 07/18/06 11:12 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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A small loss in feel & dexterity is a trivial price for what you get in return.
EDIT - to add: If touch - feel is that much of an issue.
You could always cut the hands off a pair like this.
Then slide surgical gloves on & up over the glove sleeve.
That would give you the same touch, a brain surgeon has.
-------------------- Perfection is attained by slow degrees; it requires the hand of time... [
Edited by Tippinthru (07/18/06 11:31 PM)
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CoolMojo
Imagination iswhat you make ofit

Registered: 10/26/01
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Re: glove box arm holes [Re: Tippinthru]
#5876226 - 07/19/06 12:55 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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You can't infact get your arms as contam free as you can a shirt. cloths can be washed in water hot enough to kill contams, arms can't.
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Tippinthru
contented

Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 1,131
Loc: "The Garden"...
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Re: glove box arm holes [Re: CoolMojo]
#5876234 - 07/19/06 12:58 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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True, you could STERILIZE clothing. Which would BBQ an arm.
-------------------- Perfection is attained by slow degrees; it requires the hand of time... [
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: glove box arm holes [Re: Tippinthru]
#5876336 - 07/19/06 02:04 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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> You can't infact get your arms as contam free as you can a shirt. cloths can be washed in water hot enough to kill contams, arms can't.
Really? I'd love to have a washing machine that can do 250F @ 15 psi! Where can I get one? And doesn't it tend to shrink your clothes?
I suppose you also have a source for a hepa filtered dryer?
-FF
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hyphae
born to grow


Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 6,228
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Re: glove box arm holes [Re: fastfred]
#5876783 - 07/19/06 06:37 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
fastfred said: > You can't infact get your arms as contam free as you can a shirt. cloths can be washed in water hot enough to kill contams, arms can't.
Really? I'd love to have a washing machine that can do 250F @ 15 psi! Where can I get one? And doesn't it tend to shrink your clothes?
I suppose you also have a source for a hepa filtered dryer?
-FF
Ya I had to laugh at that one too, no offense but you have much to learn CoolMojo. If worried about dexterity (I am) just use tyvek sleeves with elastic wrists over your gloved hands they wipe down excellent and are reuseable and very cheap. I get mine by cutting off a pair from a paintsuit of course the rest of me is naked (jk)! LOL
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy. Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is Gas Exchange vs. FAE "We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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Tippinthru
contented

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Loc: "The Garden"...
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Re: glove box arm holes [Re: fastfred]
#5876962 - 07/19/06 08:43 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
fastfred said: > You can't infact get your arms as contam free as you can a shirt. cloths can be washed in water hot enough to kill contams, arms can't.
Really? I'd love to have a washing machine that can do 250F @ 15 psi! Where can I get one? And doesn't it tend to shrink your clothes?
I suppose you also have a source for a hepa filtered dryer?
-FF
If you truly wanted to STERILIZE clothing.
I would simply wash & dry the clothing normally.
Then, fold them & place in an autoclave bag.
Then, place the bag in a AA sterilizer PC run.
That would do the trick.
-------------------- Perfection is attained by slow degrees; it requires the hand of time... [
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toole
white-thumb (Onewhackmycophiliac)



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Loc: spore #1203 - bas 2.34 - ...
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Re: glove box arm holes [Re: Tippinthru]
#5876972 - 07/19/06 08:48 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tippinthru said:
If you truly wanted to STERILIZE clothing.
I would simply wash & dry the clothing normally.
Then, fold them & place in an autoclave bag.
Then, place the bag in a AA sterilizer PC run.
That would do the trick.
Mixing laundry with mushrooms..I like this..nice and responsible doing the daily chores..consolidating 
haha
-------------------- -the adventures of suse and prescott.9- ..and the neverending triscut of doom !
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RogerRabbit
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Re: glove box arm holes [Re: Tippinthru]
#5877023 - 07/19/06 09:08 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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You guys are all missing the point totally. NOTHING inside a glovebox needs to be sterile except what comes into direct contact with your spawn. I've said for years that alcohol, Lysol, etc., need not be used to clean a glovebox. Soap and water is sufficient, unless you plan to dump your grains or brf onto the floor of the glovebox, in which case you have a lot of learning to do.
The problem working bare armed is that several thousand dead skin cells per hour fall off each arm. That is a fact of human metabolism. In fact, the overwhelming majority of 'dust' in a house or on the furniture is actually dead skin cells. If you work bare armed, those skin cells that flake off your arms now have a chance to fall by simple gravity into a jar or petri dish. With a freshly laundered long sleeved shirt, the shirt will catch the majority of those dead skin cells, thus protecting your project. The shirt does NOT need to be sterile, so please stop confusing the subject with this silly arguing.
I also have a box of a thousand tyvek wrist sleeves with elastic at both ends. As hyphae said, they're a better choice and I concur. However, most of you don't have those, so a long sleeved, fine weave shirt is the next best choice.
Remember, we as cultivators are the number one vector of contamination, so depending on what you're doing at the time, have a supply of latex gloves, hairnets, surgical(not dust) masks and alcohol, oust and soap and water. Iodine is excellent as a bactericide. Always wash your hands and arms, even if you wear gloves and a shirt or tyvek sleeves. Always brush your teeth and use mouthwash just before sterile work, and wash your hair in the shower you take just before beginning work, then use a hairnet in addition to that.
If people would just follow those simple things, their contamination problems would be reduced considerably. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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fastfred
Old Hand



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Re: glove box arm holes [Re: RogerRabbit]
#5877048 - 07/19/06 09:28 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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> The problem working bare armed is that several thousand dead skin cells per hour fall off each arm.
Luckily they're dead though, so they won't take over the dish or culture you're working on.
I don't see why several thousand sterilized skin cells would be worse than a thousand non-sterile cloth fibers.
It really isn't that much of an issue anyway IMHO. If gloves that cover up to the wrists aren't good enough then you're already failing somewhere.
-FF
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accesstwo
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Re: glove box arm holes [Re: fastfred]
#5877387 - 07/19/06 11:36 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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slow but direct movements are the best as they reduce the flow of air while getting things done quickly, only leave things open for as long as they need to be open eg lids. would putting a rack in a glove box help, as the dust will settle on the bottom under the jars and such, rather then around the jars?
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hyphae
born to grow


Registered: 12/13/02
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Re: glove box arm holes [Re: 0003]
#5877411 - 07/19/06 11:41 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Still air GB doesn't mean there is no air currents as we move around, I will recommend always wiping down the inside of the box beforehand with chlorox wipes then mist the air down essentially scrubbing the air inside after everything placed in the GB is also wiped down with chlorox wipes, this is all part of our individual sterile culture technique and reducing exposure to mold spore counts is the number one consideration for success. Skin cells are of little concern and will have really no affect IME and besides only our hands should really be anywhere close to any openings if things are being done properly. Nice debate so far.
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy. Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is Gas Exchange vs. FAE "We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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hyphae
born to grow


Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 6,228
Loc: the rain forests
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: glove box arm holes [Re: accesstwo]
#5877437 - 07/19/06 11:46 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
accesstwo said: slow but direct movements are the best as they reduce the flow of air while getting things done quickly, only leave things open for as long as they need to be open eg lids. would putting a rack in a glove box help, as the dust will settle on the bottom under the jars and such, rather then around the jars?
Sterile culture technique has zero tolerance for dust there should be none in a GB. Theres none in mine except for the thousands of skin cells falling off my arms sorry RR just had too
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy. Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is Gas Exchange vs. FAE "We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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0003
squirtforfunandprofit


Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 104
Loc: new orleans
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
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Re: glove box arm holes [Re: hyphae]
#5878327 - 07/19/06 04:28 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I like this debate. Roger, how do you acquire your tyvek sleeves? I am considering filling my glove box with smoke to monitor the airflow inside caused my normal arm movements. It would show if there are any strong currents.
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: glove box arm holes [Re: 0003]
#5878450 - 07/19/06 05:07 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Smoke will probably just smoke it up. Try a stick of insence. They produce a nice thin and easily visible streamer of smoke that doesn't smell foul.
-FF
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
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Re: glove box arm holes [Re: 0003]
#5878506 - 07/19/06 05:25 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
0003 said: I like this debate. Roger, how do you acquire your tyvek sleeves?
you can get painters cloths (coveralls) made of tyvek at home depot for about $5
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Omnicracker
Crusted Trolltivator

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Re: glove box arm holes [Re: Prisoner#1]
#5878526 - 07/19/06 05:29 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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badass! im getting one
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
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Re: glove box arm holes [Re: Omnicracker]
#5878539 - 07/19/06 05:35 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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goggles are a must for maximum geekiness
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Omnicracker
Crusted Trolltivator

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Re: glove box arm holes [Re: Prisoner#1]
#5878554 - 07/19/06 05:40 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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always use protection
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure


Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
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Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
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Re: glove box arm holes [Re: Prisoner#1]
#5878587 - 07/19/06 05:51 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said: goggles are a must for maximum geekiness
I wear trifocals because I'm old. Do they count? RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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hyphae
born to grow


Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 6,228
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Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: glove box arm holes [Re: Prisoner#1]
#5878623 - 07/19/06 06:02 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
0003 said: I like this debate. Roger, how do you acquire your tyvek sleeves?
you can get painters cloths (coveralls) made of tyvek at home depot for about $5
Just like looking in the mirror except that mine fits much tighter around the arms (especially the biceps) and chest as well as the legs
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy. Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is Gas Exchange vs. FAE "We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: glove box arm holes [Re: Omnicracker]
#5878626 - 07/19/06 06:03 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Omnicracker said: always use protection
my wife kept a stun gun under the pillow to prevent pregnancy... it usualy worked
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: glove box arm holes [Re: hyphae]
#5878629 - 07/19/06 06:05 PM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
hyphae said: Just like looking in the mirror except that mine fits much tighter around the arms (especially the biceps) and chest as well as the legs
I had a roomie that borrowed my t-shirts to make him look more muscular
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