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InvisibleTODAY
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Butane tastes gross
    #5873781 - 07/18/06 02:40 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I was thinking about how much solar hits took away the chemical taste of the lighter when smoking on your favorite herb. Then I thought hydrogen would have a tasteless burn, afterall it recombines with oxygen to produce water vapor when burned.

I googled "hydrogen lighter" but such a thing doesn't appear to exist. My guess is that hydrogen can't be compressed as much as butane and therefore lighters made with hydrogen would last a few clicks and run out of fuel. Is this right?

What is the typical density of compressed butane lighters or butane refill canisters? Any thoughts on how that would be compared to hydrogen?


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ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Butane tastes gross [Re: TODAY]
    #5875023 - 07/18/06 08:05 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

If you compress a liter of hydrogen in an average lighter, it would generate 100kg/cm2 of pressure. If you do it with butane, you get a slight pressure increase and a splash of liqufied gas.

I don't know the exact pressure at which liquefaction happens but I'd be surprised if it were much over 2 atmospheres.

A carbon subnitride lighter would burn a hole in your ass, NC-CC-CN being the hottest burning chemical known to science.


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Edited by Asante (07/18/06 08:07 PM)


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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: Butane tastes gross [Re: Asante]
    #5875405 - 07/18/06 09:23 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Carbon subnitride is sloppy nomenclature.  Dicyanoacetylene is more like it.

But yeah, get me one of those lighters. :cool:


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InvisibleTODAY
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Re: Butane tastes gross [Re: Asante]
    #5876233 - 07/19/06 12:57 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

i don't think a lighter of that sort would be very safe considering the pressure in the tank.

If that 1 liter weren't compressed, could it be pumped through a flow regulator of some sort to create a steady flame? 


"NC-CC-CN being the hottest burning chemical known to science." How hot?? I don't think any earthly bowl would survive a session :smirk: :grin:


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ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.


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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: Butane tastes gross [Re: TODAY]
    #5876373 - 07/19/06 02:27 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

liquid hydrogen is some pretty damn high pressure.

Consider that hydrogen is the least dense gas there is... now consider how dense it has to be as a liquid.

Lots of pressure! I somehow doubt a lighter with it would be practical, and it would have to have a pressure regulator.

Feel free to invent one, though. Hopefully you don't blow any fingers off making the prototype :tongue:


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Butane tastes gross [Re: Konnrade]
    #5876546 - 07/19/06 04:33 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

You wouldn't compress the hydrogen, but instead would store it in a metal hydride or carbon nanotubes. There are many problems with a hydrogen lighter: You cannot see the flame of burning hydrogen. Hydrogen gas will also burn or detonate over a very wide range of concentrations in air; one of the largest ranges of any gas in air. Burning hydrogen is very hot, in the 2000C range.


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OfflineJaxx
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Re: Butane tastes gross [Re: TODAY]
    #5876850 - 07/19/06 07:13 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Just use a Zippo, naptha actually tastes quite nice. :laugh:


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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: Butane tastes gross [Re: TODAY]
    #5877040 - 07/19/06 09:20 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

You don't actually store liquid hydrogen under pressure, you liquefy it first at high pressure at cold temperatures and then you put it in a very highly insulated tank.  Since no insulation is perfect, some of it still boils off over time but you let it vent so no pressure builds up.  You can store significant quantities for fairly long periods of time this way. 

I worked in a lab once where we used gallons of liquid helium, which needs to be kept at ~4K, each month.  We lost surprisingly little to boil off and the guy only came once a month or less to swap out the tanks.  There was an accelerator in the same building so we also had a several thousand gallon tank of liquid nitrogen (for cooling the detectors) which operated on the same principle.  That tank never got swapped out though, it was filled by a truck. :smile:

Dicyanoacetylene burns at something like 5000K (~4700C, ~8500F) when it's mixed with the right concentration of oxygen gas.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Butane tastes gross [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #5877101 - 07/19/06 10:02 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Cyanogen, being NC-CN also burns quite hot, but I don't think you'd like that as a lighter :wink:

If I recall correctly an experiment was undertaken to burn dicyanoacetylene using ozone, resulting in factual achievement of temperatures over 6.000'C which comes close to replicating the current heatwave in holland (100'F nuff said :sad:)

I've given the lighter problem some thought and came up with a satisfactory solution:

A tiny, thin walled ceramic tube is electrically heated from the outside by a nichrome wire, fed by a Lithium/Air battery which is the body of the lighter. A tiny microfan blows air through it so that the air coming out is heated to a sufficiently high temperature (say 500'C) to immediately ignite the cigarette. Such a lighter would be very durable as well as enviromentally friendly, and since it blows hot air that has only been in contact with the heated ceramic tube there will be no odor or dubious products from the combustion of a fuel or, what worries me, the (radioactive) Cerium-containing flint.

The body of the lighter, a Lithium battery, can be collected for salvaging the Lithium metal. A throwaway version can be made by making use of a Sodium/Air battery or a Sodium-Aluminium alloy/Water battery. Which also, might i add, rocks substantially more than a regular rechargable.

An impotent but DIY version of this would be a rechargable battery mounted on a head that contains a switch and a nichrome wire ion thin-walled metal tubing, which you touch with the cigarette to catch a light.


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InvisibleTODAY
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Re: Butane tastes gross [Re: Asante]
    #5877684 - 07/19/06 12:56 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

that's a pretty damn good idea W_C...this is what we get when we combine heads (or when i just use yours :lol:)

hot air would definitely fit the same purpose.  Remember though, that the purpose of this lighter is to light your bowl with a no-emission heat source so that the herb in your bowl can be tasted and enjoyed without inhaling burnt fuel emissions.  you only light a cig with a snap of a lighter, when you burn a bowl the lighter hovers over the bowl for much longer which means you inhale more fuel emissions.  but hey, i'd still light my cigs with it anyway  :grin:

a flexi tube could be made to direct the hot air or hot metal over any bowl orientation. 

good info everybody.


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ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Butane tastes gross [Re: TODAY]
    #5877920 - 07/19/06 01:58 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Adjusting the temp of the wire, one should be able to vaporize the bowl rather than light it...


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InvisibleTODAY
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Re: Butane tastes gross [Re: Seuss]
    #5877968 - 07/19/06 02:14 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

that's what i was thinking too. i made a vaporizer like that by attatching a dimmer switch to a soldering iron. I think i'll try something of the same sort with this scheme.


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ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.


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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: Butane tastes gross [Re: Asante]
    #5878106 - 07/19/06 02:47 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

that sounds expensive...


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InvisibleTODAY
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Re: Butane tastes gross [Re: Konnrade]
    #5878181 - 07/19/06 03:15 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

it is expensive.  this will not be a throw away lighter. 

I'm going to make one for myself to use and for permanent coffee table placement.  It'll probably cost me around $10, which isn't too bad at all...but projects like this are worth it, they're so fun :wink:


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ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.


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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: Butane tastes gross [Re: Asante]
    #5879218 - 07/19/06 09:15 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Electric lighters exist.


Edited by ChuangTzu (07/19/06 09:16 PM)


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Butane tastes gross [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #5880697 - 07/20/06 08:43 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

projects like this are worth it, they're so fun




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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: Butane tastes gross [Re: Asante]
    #5880712 - 07/20/06 08:51 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Just for the record.


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InvisibleTODAY
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Re: Butane tastes gross [Re: Asante]
    #5881217 - 07/20/06 12:07 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
Quote:

projects like this are worth it, they're so fun







thanks WC :wink:


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ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Butane tastes gross [Re: TODAY]
    #5881740 - 07/20/06 03:25 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

thanks WC





People keep referring to me like i'm a toilet :crazy:


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InvisibleTODAY
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Re: Butane tastes gross [Re: Asante]
    #5883445 - 07/21/06 01:18 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

ye olde water closet?


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ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.


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